Bayonetta is tasteless and immature. What do you think?

MarsProbe

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Dec 13, 2008
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Bayonetta was only one of my favourite games of this year. In fact, just for being such a fun game (as well as being completely crazy) it could end up being my favourite.

It's a pity you didn't like it though, but still, it's your loss, not mine.

Anyway, what is with people still harping on about how the game ripped off Devil May Cry. Doesn't everybody now know both games share the same director? Always check the facts people!
 

Dr. Crawver

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Nov 20, 2009
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I just found the game rather repetitive, and my eyes hurt with all the bright colours it blurted into my face
 

Browbeat

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mechanixis said:
Browbeat said:
mechanixis said:
Browbeat said:
For me, Bayonetta tried to be so cool as to out-cool anybody else in the room. This, however, was over the top for me. There were three moments that stood out for me that ruined any semblance of respect I had for the characters or pretense of plot.

1- During a boss fight, the main character takes shelter inside a flying house while a dragon assaults her paltry floating shelter. She then leaps out of the house mid-fall and using her hair, HITS THE DRAGON UPSIDE THE HEAD WITH THE HOUSE. I remember thinking "Okay... That's awesome... But something is off here..."

2- The heroine leaps to safety during a shoot-out, lands on a nearby bike, flips off her pursuers, and uses the extended digit to spike the bike's ignition and take off on a chase. "Wow... Alright, how did she fit that in there?... And... She took it out... And the bike shouldn't be... Okay, it's abandoning all pretense of realism, fine... But that's just... Okay" I tried to ration it out, but it was becoming all too pretentious between its lollipops and befuddled cameramen.

3- One of the leading antagonists, having been beaten and bruised through a multi-stage boss fight with a set of rocket launchers and ice skates, is finally taken out - by a tube of lipstick navigated between shards of broken glass. "Okay. I don't care what kind of 'feminism trumps corporate male greed' message you're putting on here. A being like that smoten by enchanted make-up? Screw this! You have no sympathetic traits, likable aspects,or redeeming features. Wither and die, femme" Clearly, at this point, I refused to see the character as anything else than a vehicle for fancy motions and attacks. Something about that last straw destroyed any connection between myself and the lady. I skipped every cinematic from there on, grinding onwards to finish the game. Sad, really, but the only thing that kept me going was the fluid counter system.

Oh, and then the FINAL fight almost cost me a controller.
I think you lose at grasping the idea of surrealism. Firing guns with your ankles, angelic bird-men, the ridiculous costumes, portal-hair-monsters, those are all fine, but when a boss gets killed with a tongue-and-cheek bullet gag, NOW the line's been crossed.
Precisely! If physics were reintroduced into this world, it would sunder itself within seconds of motion! Internal organs would burst, guns would implode, and meta-beings from other dimensions would fold upon themselves as their channeling points would leave them starved for aether!

In all seriousness, the mechanics of the game were solid, but while I found the over-the-top nature of Devil May Cry almost charming (in #3 he was surfing a Rocket, that rascal!), the straight-faced play at the ridiculousness on display in Bayonetta was at first jarring, then amusing, then grating, and finally appalling. It was the fact that the game clearly wanted the player to enjoy the powerful, free female character, aware of her sexuality, independence, and even burden of knowledge. Unfortunately, to me she came off as smug, arrogant, and orally fixated.

So while I do not gripe about the fact that firing ankle weaponry would normally leave her wheelchair-bound for life, I DO gripe about the fact that we are supposed to take her posturing as being acceptable, and even enjoyable.

Although, for the record, when a certain acquaintance races up a multi-stage rocket in upper atmosphere in a bike, that is a so-bad-it's-good moment. Therein, I gladly suspend disbelief and let the silly wash over me.

Just not when limitless power is treated so casually as a Lancome Killshot.
But you see, that's just it. Bayonetta doesn't give a flying fuck about how important you are or how nice your matching gold-and-porcelain dragon heads are. She doesn't acknowledge eminence or authority. That's central to her character, and that's why it's brought to the spotlight at the game's climactic moments (the lipstick-shot, and punching God into the sun). Her finishing blow to her mightiest opponents is to their inflated egos.

And at first, her total smugness and apathy are unlikable, but this is used as a setup for character development - her evolving relationships with Cereza and Luka gave her a certain warmth and humanity that I actually found quite well done (considering the circumstances, anyway; I mean, the story was still nonsense.) At it's core, the game is about a character whose never given a shit about anything forming an attachment and discovering the consequences of that attachment, and because it has that archetypal, underpinning story to it, I found the narrative enjoyable in spite of all the incomprehensible Left Eye/Umbra Witch/Jubilaeus/Vigrid/apocalypse/theology bullshit that was wedged in with it.
I concede that the 'peeling the onion' approach is effective in taking a character with little to love and finding a point of attachment, but I prefer it to be in a less stark manner initially. For instance, in District 9, the lead character was a corporate schill, and most audiences still felt ambivalent towards him by the end - even though the narrative had transformed an apparent villain into the tragic hero.

With a storyline that involves pagan power cults spliced with Norse mythos and Christian imagery, Bayonetta was certainly about face impressions. I just didn't feel that the shock-aesthetics should have been the linchpin of character relativity. Yes, she opens up as a character, and yes, her human side is what lies at the other end of her journey...

But notice how a ridiculous premise, such as Katamari (God wipes out the universe with his Caddy on a bender, go roll things up and fix it) can work just fine with the right attitude? I guess the smugness was just off-putting. Bayonetta's powers were earned in time, and as such, she has become alarmingly comfortable with superhuman feats of combat and bad-assery. However, flaunting those things with so little regard and with aggressive amounts of sexuality just seems like a pandering tactic.

I guess I just slipped off the bandwagon somewhere. All the things that its fans laud the game for are items that I check in the 'con' column. Except the silky-smooth combat, that is its true pillar of virtue.
 

Vrach

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Digi7 said:
Next time move your hand a few inches to the right and pick up another game. I didn't play Bayonetta, but that's a lot of needless raging with no solid arguments or discussion value, taste is subjective.
 

SextusMaximus

Nightingale Assassin
May 20, 2009
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Somebody got a little too opinionated! I don't see a problem with game designers appealing to people's fetishes - if you have a problem with them, ignore them.

(and no, I haven't gone deep enough in to the realms of porn to explore any crazy fetishes :p)
 

LogicNProportion

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Mar 16, 2009
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...The game is making fun of itself. Whenever ANYONE in the game does something silly, it makes a sound effect. Whenever they say anything remotely serious, you might as well put a '/sarcasm' at the end of their mouth-words.

The game is fun, camp, and delightful, and not mention having one of the most epic last bosses ever.
 

zehydra

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Oct 25, 2009
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The sexualization is there for a reason. Sex sells. I mean, look at the Twilight movies!

If it offends you, then you aren't the game's target audience, evidently.
 

LogicNProportion

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Mar 16, 2009
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dogstile said:
Cid SilverWing said:
Also it rips off Devil May Cry. Horrible.
Oh come on, any game with that fighting style is apparently "ripping off" devil may cry. If developers tried avoiding ripping off everything ever, we'd have far fewer games.

Now, with my little rant out the way, onto the topic!

Yeah, it was highly sexual and immature. Does that not seem funny to you? No? Shame, i thought it was a good laugh.
...Hahahhaha!

It was made by the SAME GUY!

The same guy who also did Viewtiful Joe and Okami! All of his games are ridiculous action titles. Now, Okami was definitely a little different, but the man is a combat-system GENIUS!
 

Space Spoons

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Aug 21, 2008
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I thought it was supposed to be tasteless and immature. Like, that was the joke, right?

And anyway, even if it was, the game was still pretty excellent. It had all the elements that make Devil May Cry great, taken to their logical extremes and with a few fun twists thrown in. And really, at the end of the day, that's all I want. I don't really care how mature my games are, I just want them to be fun. Hell, they can release a Western game about a stripper named Tits McGee and call it "Wild, Wild Chest" for all I care- if it's as good a game as Red Dead Redemption, I'm still gonna play it.
 

imaloony

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Nov 19, 2009
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I never found Bayonetta attractive either. She looks like a librarian Sarah Palin.

I suppose it is a bit silly, but if they stripepd away all that sex appeal, it would probably just be an even crazier, female version of Devil May Cry, which isn't a bad concept. Some idiot probably threw the whole "Clothes = Hair" bit at the end, and that's where we get that crap.
 

icyneesan

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Feb 28, 2010
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Someone who thought Bayonetta was 'tasteless' and 'immature'? What is this I dont even
 

Necromancer1991

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Apr 9, 2010
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It's from the guys who made Devil May Cry, they prefer over-the-top and excessive to realistic and conservative. Secondly the sexuality is more or less the game's running joke.
 

iFail69

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Nov 17, 2009
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personally I loved it (just finished it on the 360 recently). It was no masterpiece of a game and the story was... yeah... but it was FUN. I play games to have FUN, and bayonetta was just that, the dialogue was amusing and the relative button mashing and crazy combat was enjoyable (as was the stupidity of it, some enemies were easily 30 - 40 times the size of bayonetta). Nowadays games are always criticised for silly artsy fartsy aspects, but I say if it's fun then why the hell not play it?
 

Vestsao

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Aug 24, 2009
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I think that's the point of Bayonetta. I don't think they were going for a Alyx Vance sort of look when they were designing her as a character; the gameplay is also pretty top notch as far as hack 'n' slashers go.

But Yahtzee described it well (a paraphrase here) when he said that despite the community, developers and publishers intentionally going for an ironic sexualisation of the protagonist, it doesn't stop the fact that somebody is probably masturbating to it.
 

imagremlin

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Nov 19, 2007
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I can picture Team Little Angels beging just as cocky as the character they created. They're just fricking good at what they do - I'm talking game mechanics here. Bayonetta is a joy to play. Many games (Bayonetta included) have these bombastic, impossibly cool fighting cutscenes that gameplay never matches. But in Bayonetta it does.

Yes, character design can alienate some people -it did alienate me at first, it for sure alienated the hell out of my wife- but gameplay won me over. I thought enemy design was actually very good, a lot better than DMC4.

In short, Team Little Angels message is: want to enjoy this glorious gameplay? Get into the silly mindset. Hey, which other game rewards the player for getting a combo right by undressing the on screen character?
 

CarpathianMuffin

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Jun 7, 2010
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I thought it was pretty good.
The whole thing was just so silly that I couldn't help but laugh though. Which is good, because I think if it tried to be serious it would've fallen flat on its face. Or rather its creepily detailed ass.