BBC's Top 100 films of the 21st Century so Far

OneCatch

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Chanticoblues said:
What do you guys think of it?
Some notes on the ones I've seen:

100. Requiem for a Dream (Darren Aronofsky, 2000)
96. Finding Nemo (Andrew Stanton, 2003)
94. Let the Right One In (Tomas Alfredson, 2008) - Yeah, fine
93. Ratatouille (Brad Bird, 2007) - not sure it should be on the list, but 90's is ok I guess.
92. The Assassination of Jesse James by the Coward Robert Ford (Andrew Dominik, 2007) - didn't really work for me, but very well crafted
90. The Pianist (Roman Polanski, 2002) - found it a bit overwrought to be honest. Plus Polanski is a child rapist and I feel no need to be nice about his films for the sake of it.
83. A.I. Artificial Intelligence (Steven Spielberg, 2001) - Spielberg is sound, but AI's visuals just feel like cheap imitation of Blade Runner or Kubrick, and the plot is classical Spielberg oversentimentality.

78. The Wolf of Wall Street (Martin Scorsese, 2013) - Nope. Nothing new.
76. Dogville (Lars von Trier, 2003) - Genuinely one of the most disturbing films I've seen in a while, very very effective misuse and general cinematic abuse of theatre tropes.
74. Spring Breakers (Harmony Korine, 2012) - See 'The Wolf of Wall St'.
68. The Royal Tenenbaums (Wes Anderson, 2001) - I watched this while very very drunk and sleep deprived, wasn't impressed. Should probably try it again before passing judgement.
67. The Hurt Locker (Kathryn Bigelow, 2008) - Overuse of slo-mo, and slightly unbelieveable plot. Kudos for the utterly brilliantly portrayed 'return to home life' sequence though - that alone earns it a spot.
62. Inglourious Basterds (Quentin Tarantino, 2009) - probably the best Tarantino film in a while. *Lights fire and runs away*
61. Under the Skin (Jonathan Glazer, 2013) - Very very good.
59. A History of Violence (David Cronenberg, 2005) - Well deserves to be on the list, and probably higher
57. Zero Dark Thirty (Kathryn Bigelow, 2012) - none of the interests of Hurt Locker. Just mundane really, deserved neither the criticism for supposedly justifying torture or the overdone praise for it's technical construction.
53. Moulin Rouge! (Baz Luhrmann, 2001) - Not my thing.
51. Inception (Christopher Nolan, 2010) - I like Inception, kind of the apex point for big semi-intelligent blockbusters. But probably should be around #80-100, doesn't deserve sub-50.
44. 12 Years a Slave (Steve McQueen, 2013) - Very good, but kind of retreads the same tracks as Roots. Very very strong performances carry it through though.
41. Inside Out (Pete Docter, 2015) - It was ok? It thought it was cleverer than it was though.
40. Brokeback Mountain (Ang Lee, 2005) - I'll give this a pass for the hilarious shitstorm it raised.
39. The New World (Terrence Malick, 2005) - Didn't hit the mark for me. Felt like a pretty tired historical drama, and pretty compromised for the sake of the writer's message.
38. City of God (Fernando Meirelles and Katia Lund, 2002) - Yep!
35. Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon (Ang Lee, 2000) - Yeah, probably the best of the genre (or what I've seen of it)
33. The Dark Knight (Christopher Nolan, 2008) - NO! I get that Heath Ledger was an interesting take on the character, but other than that this film was pretty generic. Batman Begins was a better superhero film, and Inception is a better blockbuster.
32. The Lives of Others (Florian Henckel von Donnersmarck, 2006) - Should be higher. Genuinely brilliant film. Manages to pull off a fairly unbelievable plot in a way which feels utterly authentic and immersive.
30. Oldboy (Park Chan-wook, 2003) - OK, it's original. But the whole genre/style really grates on me personally. And it's so very melodrama
29. WALL-E (Andrew Stanton, 2008) - It's good, but Up is better.
27. The Social Network (David Fincher, 2010) - Why?
25. ​Memento (Christopher Nolan, 2000) - Another one that's not quite as clever as it thought.
24. The Master (Paul Thomas Anderson, 2012) - I found this incredibly boring. Not sure quite how this and There Will Be Blood elicit such different reactions in me.
22. Lost in Translation (Sofia Coppola, 2003) - Should be on the list, but not this high.
19. Mad Max: Fury Road (George Miller, 2015) - Nah. It's good, but not top 100 material.
17. Pan's Labyrinth (Guillermo Del Toro, 2006) - Yep!
13. Children of Men (Alfonso Cuaron, 2006) - Should be #2 or 3. Masterpiece. Damn near a perfect film.
12. Zodiac (David Fincher, 2007) - Very good.
10. No Country for Old Men (Joel and Ethan Coen, 2007) - No arguments.
5. Boyhood (Richard Linklater, 2014) - Very interesting idea, but I'd probably put it around the #40-60 mark.
4. Spirited Away (Hayao Miyazaki, 2001) - I personally find this irritating, but must grudgingly admit that it's very well done.
3. There Will Be Blood (Paul Thomas Anderson, 2007) Should be #1 without a shadow of a doubt.
1. Mulholland Drive (David Lynch, 2001) - I really loathe this film. Yes, it's masterfully crafted etc. But it just feels completely inauthentic - like I'm reading a technical manual or a treatise rather than engaging with something.

Things not on the list which should be. Based on my viewing habits, which are not particularly eclectic:

28 Days Later - completely re-invigorated the apocalyptic genre.
Lord of the Rings - collectively in one spot if you must, but they were hugely influential on both CGI cinematography, exposition of adaptational universes, and fantasy in general
Moon - Duncan Jones has lost the plot a bit recently, but his first film is masterful science fiction. Low budget, smart with it, cracking performances by Sam Rockwell. Top 10.
Persepolis - Animated film about the Iranian revolution. Also, the book
In Bruge/Seven Psychopaths - excellent dark comedy. In Bruge is better, Seven Psychopaths is possibly funnier. Take your pick.
The Drop - nice, self contained thriller with Tom Hardy and James Gandolfini. No higher than 80, but still.
Contagion - excellent thriller about a flu pandemic. Strong, understated performances from an a-list cast.
Downfall - Hitler's last days. Very very gripping, tastefully done, and the casting is brilliant. 21st century's Das Boot.
Waltz with Bashir - very very nasty animated film about the Lebanon war.
Relatedly, Lebanon. I've already mentioned Das Boot, but this is the second candidate for 21st Century's Das Boot.
 

OneCatch

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Oh, other films which should be there:

Place Beyond the Pines - almost an ancient Greek melodrama, but modern setting

District 9 - maybe not high on the list, but good B movie blockbuster
 

Hawki

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If we're playing the game of movies that should be on the list, I guess I can nominate:

-The Descendants (Not mindblowing or influential, but basically perfect in terms of execution)
-The Lord of the Rings Trilogy (or Fellowship of the Ring if you can only get one entry, for reasons that I shouldn't have to explain)
-Casino Royale (True, it's an action movie, but like The Descendants, I feel this is one of those 'perfect' movies in regards to how it's executed. Also hugely influential on the Bond franchise, and arguably thrillers in general)
-Gravity (Well, I'd put this above Interstellar at least. Again, practically perfect execution, a good theme, good characters, and liberties aside, one of the best examples of hard sci-fi we've had in recent years)
-Bridge of Spies (Yep, another case of perfect execution, if not so much conception. But certainly one of the best political thrillers I've seen in a long time)
-Zootopia (An excellently executed film with a message that's more relevant today than ever)
-Eye in the Sky (An excellent thriller that looks at the legal, psychological, and moral issues of drone warfare without ever preaching to the audience about it
-The Revenant (I think it's testament to this film that I can spend 15 minutes discussing my interpretation of the work's themes to family, then be given an entirely different take by Leo, and not feel cheated. Oh, and it's another example of excellent craftsmanship. )
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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OneCatch said:
Place Beyond the Pines - almost an ancient Greek melodrama, but modern setting

District 9 - maybe not high on the list, but good B movie blockbuster
Yes! Those...why be they not here! Thanks for reminding. :)
 

Chanticoblues

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OneCatch said:
*A whole big list!*
Thanks for the detailed response! I don't find myself in agreement with a lot of your opinions, but I totally agree that Contagion is excellent. I think most people have their own favorite Soderbergh, so it sorta makes sense that none of his films ended up making the list.

I think there are actually quite a few very deserving filmmakers that didn't make the list because they don't have a popular, singular choice. I mean Tsai Ming-Liang, the Dardennes Brothers, Hong Sang-Soo, Clint Eastwood, Jia Zhang-ke, Werner Herzog, Pedro Costa, and Carlos Reygadas among others didn't make the list, who are all pretty important to the shape of this century's cinema so far.
 

Nazulu

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Ezekiel said:
Nazulu said:
And I'll never understand why Spirited Away is so high up on so many lists. Did it do anything important for cinema or something? Seemed like just another 'Disney' movie to me.
Spirited Away impresses me more on a technical level than the Disney Renaissance. The detailed backgrounds and characters mesh better. Disney's animations look rougher. I have Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast here to look at, so I'll compare Spirited Away to those. The flat characters in Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast look like they exist separately from the richly painted backgrounds. Many character shots in Aladdin and Beauty and the Beast don't have shading, unlike Studio Ghibli's movies. Look at how flat these characters look and how rough their outlines are:



Look at this mess, which I found within a few seconds:

Spirited Away is more impressive tonally.




Plus, Disney used CG in a few of their scenes, and it was always very noticeable because they're such different art forms. Miyazaki prided himself on having (most of) his films entirely drawn. He said, "Why do we need computers to do what human hands can do?" As a pure 2D animatin, Spirited Away is a better example of the art form.

The CG animations that have completely consumed western cinema will never impress me like Spirited Away. I don't know how to explain it, but CG movies look sterile. Maybe it's because once you make a 3D model, a lot of the work is already done. You then manipulate the model. A 2D animator, on the other hand, has to replicate and adjust the forms by hand 24 times per second (30 in Spirited Away, according to the commentary) and keep them consistent from every angle and posture. I appreciate things that are handcrafted.

I just found this Reddit thread, which explains a bit more about the techniques of Spirited Away:
https://www.reddit.com/r/anime/comments/1ezk4a/what_animation_techniques_were_used_in_spirited/

Disney's characters are more animate and have better lip syncing, but that's about it.
I don't know mate. I'm looking at these screen shots you put up in your good and bad comparison, and I actually prefer the Disney shots because the colours stand out more ^^
Also, I wouldn't say the characters being more animate and having better lip syncing is a small thing either. Anything to make them more expressive is a big bloody deal. Talk about your backfires.

Not only that, but even though I like Ghibli's animations (and respect the man), they can look really fugly at times. I have no interest in seeing more of their detail in wrinkly people, and sometimes when their characters cry, these unrealistic globs of tears just leak out and I find it more disturbing than sad.

I kind of agree when it comes to CG animations, but I have to admit that sometimes they get it right, when certain scenes just work beautifully and the lighting and all the details stand out. I will usually prefer 2D animation though, because nothing is going to top Fantasia and The Thief and the Cobbler (the Recobbled Cut).
 

Casual Shinji

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Ezekiel said:
I love Miyazaki, but remember Howl's Moving Castle being kind of a mess. I think it's his worst movie.
Howl's Moving Castle is like Howl's Moving Castle; A giant mess, but pretty darn impressive when it's in motion.

OT: Yeah, seems like a good list.

Surprised to see Ratatouille on there, but not The Incredibles though. And I have to say I prefer The Royal Tenenbaums (and Rushmore) over Wes Anderson's recent films. The guy is getting too steeped in the artifice of the filmmaking now.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Nazulu said:
Also, I wouldn't say the characters being more animate and having better lip syncing is a small thing either. Anything to make them more expressive is a big bloody deal. Talk about your backfires.
Spirited Away is no slouch. Not much lip sync, though. I think Akira is the only anime that ever had full lip sync.
Both Disney Renissance and Spirated Away are inferior compared to Fantasia, especially watching the Rite of Spring segmant:

 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Ezekiel said:
Nazulu said:
Also, I wouldn't say the characters being more animate and having better lip syncing is a small thing either. Anything to make them more expressive is a big bloody deal. Talk about your backfires.
Spirited Away is no slouch. Not much lip sync, though. I think Akira is the only anime that ever had full lip sync.
Both Disney Renissance and Spirated Away are inferior compared to Fantasia, especially watching the Rite of Spring segmant:

You showed me that like two weeks ago and it still says, "This video contains content from Disney, who has blocked it in your country on copyright grounds." I think I'm gonna order the region 2 Blu-ray of Fantasia. I barely remember it.
Can you see this video?


And if you can't well sad because this version is the original 1940 version where the lighting and texture work on the art is not brightened and has an appropriate amount of dark colors and contrast if that is how I can word it?

Besides both films are on Netflix right now.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Ezekiel said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Besides both films are on Netflix right now.
That's surprising. Netflix can't afford most of Disney's important movies. Even Netflix DVD, a much more comprehensive service, is missing some of them, like Beauty and the Beast. Thanks for saving me ten dollars.

No, I can't see that video either.
I am just sad that you'll end up seeing the HD Blu-ray version of Fantasia original because again they changed the look by making it look brighter which ruins some of the segments like Rite of Spring and Night on Bald Mountain.

But anyway here's how both Fantasia and Fantasia 2000 work. Because its all just a complilation of musical segments where the animation follows along the music. So treat them like Music Videos. As for the Segments.

Fantasia 1940 segments:

An Orchestral version of The Toccata and Fugue in D Minor by Bach, the animation here is mostly abstract images that follows the music. I really liked this one.

The Nutcracker Suite by Tchikovsky which again follows the idea of Abstract images but here sometimes it shows things you recognize.

The Sorcerer's Apprentice is the one with Micky Mouse.

The Rite of Spring by Igor Stravinsky, this one also tells a story in that it shows Evolution on earth, from the lifeless volcanic wasteland of primordial Earth to the Dinosaurs to the shattering of the continants. It's definately the most ambitious of all the segments and the longest and its my absolute favorite of the segments.

The Pastoral Symphony by Beethoven which just shows a very cutsy look of Greek Mythical creatures.

Dance of the Hours by Amilcare is my least favorite, yeah its a cute and funny one but eh after the last segments it feels less.

The Night on Bald Mountain and Ave Maria. Another masterpiece and pretty much scares all the little kids.



The Fantasia 2000 segments.

A very short version of Beethoven's 5th Symphony with abstract images that look like Butterflys.

Pines of Rome is the first use of CGI so you probably don't like it, its about flying whales.

Rhapsody in Blue by George Gershwin is a fav of mine, it's animations uses more or less the art style of Al Hirschfeld showing the apperent lives of 4 different people living in an 1930s-50s New York.

Piano Concierto no. 2, the animation is a CG version of the Steadfast Tin Soldier.

The next 2 I really don't care for and I assume you won't either so I will skip to the climax.

The Firebird Suite is another Masterpiece of 2D traditional animation that it blows Spirited Away's animation and the music going with it will drive you to tears.
 

Nazulu

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Ezekiel said:
Nazulu said:
Also, I wouldn't say the characters being more animate and having better lip syncing is a small thing either. Anything to make them more expressive is a big bloody deal. Talk about your backfires.
Spirited Away is no slouch. Not much lip sync, though. I think Akira is the only anime that ever had full lip sync.
I never said it was. I like Spirited Away (just in-case I made it seem otherwise). It's just, I don't see anything so amazing about it in writing, scenes, or character wise. The animation and detail is great and all, but none of it's scenes stand out to me like certain musical moments in some classic Disney movies, and even then I reckon there's a lot better.

If it was around 30 to 40 on the list then I could possibly agree, but there should be some real epics or intelligent films filling in those hot spots (I believe).

Samtemdo8 said:
Fantasia Snip
I'm curious to know what you would think of The Thief and the Cobbler. It's an incomplete film by Richard Williams (head animator on Roger Rabbit) revived by some bloke, Garrett Gilchrist, and it's a special piece of work inspired by both Hanna Barbera and Disney.

This link also has a link to the original site - http://recobbled.neocities.org/
 

bartholen_v1legacy

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Great to see Spirited Away so high on the list! Wholly deserved!

Onto the more confusing picks, based on my perception of the consensus on those films having also seen some of them...

- A.I.? Isn't that regarded as a tonal mess?
- Wolf of Wall Street... well I can kind of see it, but I thought it was indulgent, terribly overlong and ultimately hollow.
- Spring fucking Breakers? Aside from James Franco and the first 10 or so minutes, there's nothing to that movie! What?!?!?!
- The New World? Does anyone even remember that movie anymore? I don't remember it being any awards grabber when it came out either. This one's confusing.

Oh fuck it. Lists like this are pointless anyway, and serve no purpose beyond giving some recommendations and giving film nerds a reason to argue and complain about them for months on end.
 

Nazulu

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Ezekiel said:
I still don't get how you can call it another Disney movie, though. I watched Tarzan today. I liked it, but the villain and the naivete was so typical of Disney. Spirited Away isn't so dramatic and silly about everything, which I think makes it more moving. I don't think Disney has much respect for children. They think they're all hyperactive and need everything to have funny characters and songs and bright colors. They wouldn't tell a story as melancholic as Spirited Away. The protagonist's growth hits me on a more personal level than most Disney movies. I like how its coming of age story also incorporates themes like greed and pollution without being politically correct or hitting you over the head with it. It also doesn't have a villain, which is such a staple of Disney. I'm not sure I'd show Tarzan to my child. I might wait until they were a bit older.

Getting off topic here, but I hated that ridiculous elephant, inexplicably befriending the band/troop, communicating with them like it's nothing, making lame jokes and fucking climbing a ship to save the day. It was the worst thing about the movie.
Because it's an animated movie for family's with a happy ending. I'm generalising obviously, but the whole point is that it doesn't do anything really amazing with that (like I said earlier). None of it really stood out to me.

Disney has a formula for most of their movies, and it's definitely to stay on the safe side, but that doesn't mean they have no respect for kids (especially after Hunchback and some other questionable scenes), they just go with what they know. I mean, you could assume that, but I don't see it, especially when they put so much great work in some of their films with music and other talents.

If you think Spirited Away is more than that though, more power to ya. I'm not going to shoot you down for that. Plus, I agree again. A lot of Disney's comedic side-kicks are mostly annoying. And in many newer Disney movies, they really pull of some BS 'save the day' moves which kill all tension.
 

Fox12

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Samtemdo8 said:
Ezekiel said:
Nazulu said:
Also, I wouldn't say the characters being more animate and having better lip syncing is a small thing either. Anything to make them more expressive is a big bloody deal. Talk about your backfires.
Spirited Away is no slouch. Not much lip sync, though. I think Akira is the only anime that ever had full lip sync.
Both Disney Renissance and Spirated Away are inferior compared to Fantasia, especially watching the Rite of Spring segmant:

While Fantasia is an extraordinary film, I would have to agree with Miyazaki when he says that Walt Disney's films were emotionally and thematically pretty shallow. From a technical standpoint I think Ghibli is still the greatest producer of animation ever, though there are some tight competitors. In terms of narrative complexity there is no doubt in my mind that End of Evangelion is the greatest animated film of all time (and probably the greatest work of cinema period).
 

Skatalite

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Seen around 50-60 of those and most of my favorites are on there, but like a couple of others here I'm really surprised it's got none of the LotR movies, especially because they scored higher with critics than most of the movies on the list. :I

Some others I think should be on there:
Memories of Murder, a crime movie about Korea's first serial killer
Moon, a slow-paced sci-fi movie I guess kind of similar to A Space Odyssey
And Your Mother Too, a Mexican road movie
13 Assassins, about a group of assassins coming together to kill a corrupt lord
The Sea Inside, about a paralyzed guy fighting for the right to end his life (euthanasia still being illegal in Spain)