Best "Character Class System" in games?

[aozgolo]

So you all know the lovely gameplay innovation of character classes? Well this isn't a shouting match of whether you like mages or warriors better but instead which game's "character class system" you thought was the most fun to play with and where the implementation added a huge amount of depth to the game itself.

I'm just going to mention 2 to get things started:


Baldur's Gate/Icewind Dale series (included all since gameplay is fundamentally similar). The classes you choose not only for your main character but for the NPCs whom you play with drastically impact this game in so many ways. There's an enormous amount of replay value just in trying out different class combinations, and with 11 base classes, 29 kits, 9 multiclasses, and the ability to dual class plus 7 different races, and 9 alignments times 6 characters in a party means you have a HUGE amount of choice, and the in-game reflects each of these choices with each class performing very differently and even locking/unlocking aspects of the game based off your class (specificially in BGII where each class had it's own stronghold).


Final Fantasy Tactics: The Job Class system was amazing and robust. With the ability for every unit to have the skills of 2 jobs simultaneously. There are 19 basic jobs in the game as well as numerous character-specific special jobs that had a very cool way of unlocking new skills with job points you gain from performing job specific abilities in combat allowing you to consistently upgrade a character well beyond just unlocking their job class.


What's your favorite character class systems?

 

[WhiteWolfe]

I have always really liked the Sphere grid in Final Fantasy X. It was just a really cool system that I thought had good flexibility and felt fun to level up. Everyone had a "class" in terms of where they started but you had choices and could eventually get them to other class abilities.

Kingdom Hearts 3D's ability link was a nice way of leveling up and unlocking abilities, especially since Kingdom Hearts never really had "classes" in my opinion like that.

 

[Someone Depressing]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

 

[McMarbles]

Bravely Default has a really good one.

 

[sageoftruth]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

Are there really any classes in the game though? I know builds exist, but classes seem to just be a starting point for you to build whatever you like. Once you're halfway through the game, it hardly matters what you chose to start as.

 

[The_Blue_Rider]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

Are there really any classes in the game though? I know builds exist, but classes seem to just be a starting point for you to build whatever you like. Once you're halfway through the game, it hardly matters what you chose to start as.

Well that depends on if you're trying to maximize your stats. Because each level takes more souls than the last, by the time you're up to level 60ish, you'll need about 15-20k souls per level. Your starting class will really matter then, because there wont be points in stats you never intended to level up. I think its kind of a dumb system but thats just me

 

[Knight Captain Kerr]

Call me Karl Marx because I think the best class system is no class system. Classless lets me make whatever character I want, isn't all combat focused and doesn't make me plan out my entire character before I even start playing.

Example, what if I'm a mage and after I start playing I want to use a club instead of a dagger? In some class based system I just couldn't, it's a piece of wood you smack someone over the head with but I can't use it, even at a novice level. I could learn a spell that drags you to hell to be torn apart by demons but not how to use a club. You can talk about how great a certain class based system is for all the freedom it provides but classless gives you way more.

If you ask me to pick a game that has classes, Shadowrun: Returns. Because the classes aren't actually classes, they're just archetypes you can use in the classless system. I don't hate games with classes, I'm playing Dragon Age: Inquisition at the moment and I'm having a great time but I like classless more.

 

[CommanderZx2]

For me it has got to be Arcanum of steamworks and magick obscura, I don't think that has ever been topped.

 

[Feraswondervahnn]

I loved the Diablo 2 Skill tree. 7 classes, each with three skill types, with 3 paths in each. All can be mixed and matched and certain skills have synergy with others making them stronger just by having points in both skills.

Secondly Path of Exile. I loved the sphere grid from Final Fantasy X and this is like the sphere grid but with only a certain amount of points to use throughout the game. Some of the possible builds are just plain fun and the classes are very open ended.

 

[laggyteabag]

I really like how Guild Wars 2 gives the player different abilities depending on what weapon combination you are using as well as what class you are playing as. For example, if you are playing as a Warrior, you skills with a 2H blade will be different than they would be with 2 axes, and if you are a Mesmer with a 2H blade, your skills will be different than a Warrior with a 2H blade. Its a shame that you only have 5 abilities at once though, makes it get really boring after a while, but A+ for effort. I would really like to see another game pick up that type of mechanic, but give you a few more skills on a bar.

 

[Rariow]

I really liked the class system in Kingdoms of Amalur. Rather than your class limiting what skills you had, the skills you chose limited what class you could pick, with classes providing a few nifty bonuses. Picking a particular class would require you to get a certain number of points in a certain combination of skill "types" (So,a Mage would need to put X points in Magic-type skills, a Warrior would need to put X points in Strength-type skills, but a Battlemage would need Y points in both Magic AND Strength-type skills, where Y is less than X). You'd also level-up your class, where at certain amounts of skill points you'd be able to get a direct upgrade to your class. At first the bonuses classes gave you were rather minor, but at higher levels you could get some really nifty stuff. I played a Rogue/Mage, and I ended up getting a short-distance teleport to replace my roll that would also poison any enemies in my path. The fact that it was pretty easy to respec from the ground up also meant you could keep switching around what class you were, and allowed you to change playstyles pretty drastically. You also weren't forced to pick the most optimal class, so if you were picking both Finesse (read: stealth) and Strength-type skills, you could still pick a pure Warrior class if you preferred the bonuses, even if said class was at a lower level than the corresponding hybrid class. Shame that I found the questing and story to be pretty mediocre, since the class system was pretty awesome and the combat was quite fun at times.

This is going to sound absolutely heretical, but I loved Oblivion's class system. The way the monsters scaled with leveling was completely borked, I admit, but I love the leveling process itself. The skills (Stuff like blade, athletics, destruction) were dominated by attributes (stuff like strength, dexterity, intelligence), and you chose a number of class skills. By leveling a certain number of class skills, you leveled up your character, at which point you could level up your attributes. The thing that made it interesting to me was that how much you leveled up your skills affected how you could level your attributes: Per each 2 (if I remember correctly) levels of a skill gained before the level-up the amount you could increase the corresponding attribute during level-up increased by 1, up to a max of 5. This included even non-class skills. This meant that, if you wanted to min-max, you had to be very careful about how you acted during gameplay so that you could increase the skills dominated by the attributes you wanted to increase and avoid those that would put you closer to level-up without giving you a bonus to the attributes you wanted to choose. It sounds really annoying on paper, but on the characters that I chose to min-max on it actually made for a very compelling experience.

Finally, though they have both been mentioned, Final Fantasy X's Sphere Grid and, it's bigger cousin, the absolutely terrifying Path of Exile ability tree are both really great level-up system that very cleverly combine the focus of a class system with the flexibility of a classless system by making it easier to do what the developer intended, whilst still allowing you to go off the beaten path and come up with your own crazy build. The only real complaints I have are that the individual upgrades in Path of Exile often felt meaningless, and that I hated having to grind for certain types of spheres in FFX. Still, I really loved the way the leveling actually worked there.

 

[yamy]

This is going to sound absolutely heretical, but I loved Oblivion's class system. The way the monsters scaled with leveling was completely borked, I admit, but I love the leveling process itself. The skills (Stuff like blade, athletics, destruction) were dominated by attributes (stuff like strength, dexterity, intelligence), and you chose a number of class skills. By leveling a certain number of class skills, you leveled up your character, at which point you could level up your attributes. The thing that made it interesting to me was that how much you leveled up your skills affected how you could level your attributes: Per each 2 (if I remember correctly) levels of a skill gained before the level-up the amount you could increase the corresponding attribute during level-up increased by 1, up to a max of 5. This included even non-class skills. This meant that, if you wanted to min-max, you had to be very careful about how you acted during gameplay so that you could increase the skills dominated by the attributes you wanted to increase and avoid those that would put you closer to level-up without giving you a bonus to the attributes you wanted to choose. It sounds really annoying on paper, but on the characters that I chose to min-max on it actually made for a very compelling experience.

It also create situations where you would just sit in a corner and casts spells for 20 minutes just to min-max. Some skill just get less than others so that you had to stop running so that you won't level up before you get hit enough to level Heavy Armour to raise your endurance.

It also mean that it's actually more advantageous to not pick your favoured skill (like Heavy Attack) as a major skill so stop yourself from leveling too soon.

The Oblivion leveling system was just bad. Eventually I just never used the bed and finished the game at level 8. It doesn't even matter anyway since everything levels with you.

 

[Dirty Hipsters]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

Are there really any classes in the game though? I know builds exist, but classes seem to just be a starting point for you to build whatever you like. Once you're halfway through the game, it hardly matters what you chose to start as.

Well that's one of the reasons that I really like the classes in dark souls, the fact that you're not really stuck with what you pick.

Once you pick a class in dark souls you can keep investing points into stats for that specific class, or start putting points into other attributes in the event that you find that you don't actually like your class that much. It means that you can keep playing the game like you want to play it rather than starting the game over with a different class.

I can't count the number of times I started a game, realized that the class I picked is woefully underpowered, and had to restart the game again with another class. That doesn't happen in the Souls games. You don't like the way your class plays? Your class is just your starting place and you can change everything about it or change nothing.

 

[Johnny Impact]

Never played this, but the Iron Kingdoms RPG actually requires you to pick two classes (not sure if you can double-up, I think you can). Making everyone dual-class allows lots of variety.

Pathfinder can get incredibly cumbersome but, with its many supplements, has a class or feat to let you do whatever you want. "I like barbarians, but I want my guy to sing while he fights." Okay, but do you want to play a dual-class barb/bard, a skald, a pure bard who buffs himself in combat, a barbarian with tons of intimidation feats..........?

I was going to say Dark Souls, but that's more like "choose your starting gear" than "choose a class." Every character is make-whatever-you-want guy. Still, that *is* nice.

Path of Exile's skill web. Holy freaking god, BIG!!

Final Fantasy X sphere grid. Everyone has a starting point but eventually everyone can do everything. Yes, Auron, you're really strong, but I'm tired of you always going last, so why don't you learn all of Tidus's speed nodes as well?

Borderlands 2. I think they really got it right the second time. Each character is distinct, each tree is distinct, the playstyles they create are fun, and it's easy to respec.

 

[sageoftruth]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

Are there really any classes in the game though? I know builds exist, but classes seem to just be a starting point for you to build whatever you like. Once you're halfway through the game, it hardly matters what you chose to start as.

Well that's one of the reasons that I really like the classes in dark souls, the fact that you're not really stuck with what you pick.

Once you pick a class in dark souls you can keep investing points into stats for that specific class, or start putting points into other attributes in the event that you find that you don't actually like your class that much. It means that you can keep playing the game like you want to play it rather than starting the game over with a different class.

I can't count the number of times I started a game, realized that the class I picked is woefully underpowered, and had to restart the game again with another class. That doesn't happen in the Souls games. You don't like the way your class plays? Your class is just your starting place and you can change everything about it or change nothing.

True. There is definitely an appeal to that. I'm just wondering if that makes it a class system at all. Johnny Impact stated it pretty well in his recent post. It feels kind of like being asked "Which game has your favorite story?" and then answering, "Tetris". If you were someone who hated games with stories, then this would make perfect sense, but in the same sense, saying Dark Souls has the best class system seems kind of like saying "The best class system is no class system".

Perhaps I just need a better understanding of what constitutes a class system. One could say that the class system in Dark Souls is defined by the players through builds, rather than by any preset system. With such an open system, the idea of classes just feels irrelevant in Dark Souls.

 

[Areloch]

Dark Souls's is pretty good. It actually gives the player a decent look into the different prospects that each class possesses and then lets the player experiment with it. No equipment restrictions, anyone can use magic given they have the stats, and all weapons are feasible with most builds.

It's simple, but it certainly works. Hybrid classes were also very fun to play.

Are there really any classes in the game though? I know builds exist, but classes seem to just be a starting point for you to build whatever you like. Once you're halfway through the game, it hardly matters what you chose to start as.

Well that's one of the reasons that I really like the classes in dark souls, the fact that you're not really stuck with what you pick.

Once you pick a class in dark souls you can keep investing points into stats for that specific class, or start putting points into other attributes in the event that you find that you don't actually like your class that much. It means that you can keep playing the game like you want to play it rather than starting the game over with a different class.

I can't count the number of times I started a game, realized that the class I picked is woefully underpowered, and had to restart the game again with another class. That doesn't happen in the Souls games. You don't like the way your class plays? Your class is just your starting place and you can change everything about it or change nothing.

True. There is definitely an appeal to that. I'm just wondering if that makes it a class system at all. Johnny Impact stated it pretty well in his recent post. It feels kind of like being asked "Which game has your favorite story?" and then answering, "Tetris". If you were someone who hated games with stories, then this would make perfect sense, but in the same sense, saying Dark Souls has the best class system seems kind of like saying "The best class system is no class system".

Perhaps I just need a better understanding of what constitutes a class system. One could say that the class system in Dark Souls is defined by the players through builds, rather than by any preset system. With such an open system, the idea of classes just feels irrelevant in Dark Souls.

In the context of systems like what Dark Souls has - in where you pick a "class" at the start, but nothing stops you from going a totally different direction, it merely decides what stats you have at the start - I'd probably go with calling them "Specializations" rather than "classes".

Picking one of those at the start encourages you on that path as you start with skills and items that are beneficial to it, but you're not obligated to stick with it. Actual classes would be something more rigidly defined.

That said, for me, I'd probably pick Oblivion - if it were fixed.

As has been mentioned in this thread, it was way too easy to cheat the system to break the game. Nothing like one-shotting everything because you're level 2 with a 200+ blade skill.

However, if you tweaked it to be closer to how Skyrim did leveling(all skills contribute to your over all level, so there's no cheating it), it would have a much better grounding. It's not really a class system and more the 'specializations' system as I named it above, but honestly I enjoy that free-form-ness.

There's something to be said about being able to take your character and go "Sure, I'm really good at swords, but I sometimes need to toss a fireball or use a healing spell. Putting a bit of practice into those so I can do them at all is good!"

Super-strict class systems, a la D&D tend to not let you blend skills like that. You just don't want the player to go 100% full free-form on it or things break down.

 

[go-10]

in order of preference:
Fire Emblem Awakening
Final Fantasy Tactics
Final Fantasy X-2 (they're called dresspheres but come on we all know what it really is)
Bravely Default
Dragon Quest IX

 

[cleric of the order]

Speaking of the baldur's gate series Torment tides of numero seems to have a pretty good idea.


""I am a __________ __________ who _________s."

The first blank, the adjective in the sentence, is filled in by a character's "Descriptor", a way to describe the character's strongest characteristic.
The second blank, the noun of the sentence, is filled in by a character's "Type", which is either a "Glaive" (a warrior type), a "Nano" (a technology adept type), or a "Jack" (as in jack-of-all-trades).
The third blank, the verb of the sentence, is filled in by a character's "Focus", or what the character is most known for or their special talent."~wikipedia

From What' I've seen this can give it a lot of dimension, and it was created by the planscape fellows.
Seems pretty damn good to me/

 

[Lightknight]

Honestly? The ones I don't remember because they didn't get in the way of playing the game.

But if I were going to pick one that I do remember and absolutely love, it'd be Final Fantasy Tactics (not advanced). I really enjoyed pursuing new classes and getting new abilities. But then again, I've probably spent more than a month of real time playing that game.