Bethesda Calls Fallout MMO Contract "Clear and Unambiguous"
- Thread starter Logan Westbrook
- Start date
Regardless, I really don't care what their legal reason is for getting the rights back to the Fallout MMO. I would much rather that Bethesda have the right to it, than Interplay.
I'm pretty sure that Bethesda's original intent was to let Interplay develop the game with strict stipulation, assuming that Interplay couldn't make the deadlines. This is Interplay, a company that has been in a downward spiral of financial troubles and has just come out of bankruptcy proceedings. So now they're selling of the rights to their IP's to get some cash flow in, and Bethesda picked up Fallout, but licensed back the MMO rights.
Why not? It probably allowed Bethesda to get some money back after acquiring the rights. MMO titles are easily to most work and cost intensive projects to develop. They know this, Interplay knows this. With how bad Interplay had been doing, to finally get back on your feet and say 'we're betting everything on an MMO project' is ballsy as all hell (and pretty stupid). Based on Bethesda's first lawsuit, I bet they where hoping Interplay would fall on it's face in the attempt and the rights would revert back to them. But it looks like Bethesda might have underestimated Interplay.
Anyways, I'd still rather have Bethesda at the reigns. I really do like how the series has evolved under their direction. Yes, I'm an old school Fallout fan, but I don't want to go back to Isometric turn-based combat after seeing the series in first-person. Then again, I wasn't part of the pitchfork wielding mobs that went after Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition or the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy (prequel trilogy still sucked, but George Lucas didn't 'ruin my childhood').
Still, Interplay had a hand in helping to get the series started. But the guys that made it? That was Black Isle Studios, and they've all moved on. Nobody working on the current MMO project was part of Black Isle back in the day. They made Fallout 1 & 2. Then Interplay gave the rights to somebody else and they made Fallout: Tactics (decent game if you like the Jagged Alliance series), and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (just plain bad).
Bethesda has made Fallout 3, and all of the great DLC for it. When they gave the project out, they did so to a team filled with former Black Isle team leads, this was Oblivion Entertainment and their Fallout: New Vegas. And I can bet you any money that they're concept guys have been working on Fallout 4 since before they announced New Vegas (there where working on Fallout 3 back in 04', game released in 08').
And for as stupid as this seems, Interplay has already pulled some shady stuff too. Remember that Interplay released the 'Fallout Trilogy' for PC a while back? If you're not well versed in the series, then you might not know that it was just a re-branding of the Fallout 1/2/Tactics compilations that have been floating around for years. Nope, 'Trilogy' implies 1, 2, & 3. It looked like Interplay was trying to mooch some more sales off of the success of Bethesda's Fallout 3. So Bethesda took Interplay to court over this as well (I don't remember the outcome, still seems shady on Interplay's behalf).
So these companies have been at each others throats, and they're both acting like jerks. But I still have more faith in Bethesda making quality Fallout games than I do in Interplay (the same guys that canned Black Isle while they where working on the 'original' Fallout 3, named Project Van Buren). So legal or otherwise, I hope Bethesda gets the rights back.
I'm pretty sure that Bethesda's original intent was to let Interplay develop the game with strict stipulation, assuming that Interplay couldn't make the deadlines. This is Interplay, a company that has been in a downward spiral of financial troubles and has just come out of bankruptcy proceedings. So now they're selling of the rights to their IP's to get some cash flow in, and Bethesda picked up Fallout, but licensed back the MMO rights.
Why not? It probably allowed Bethesda to get some money back after acquiring the rights. MMO titles are easily to most work and cost intensive projects to develop. They know this, Interplay knows this. With how bad Interplay had been doing, to finally get back on your feet and say 'we're betting everything on an MMO project' is ballsy as all hell (and pretty stupid). Based on Bethesda's first lawsuit, I bet they where hoping Interplay would fall on it's face in the attempt and the rights would revert back to them. But it looks like Bethesda might have underestimated Interplay.
Anyways, I'd still rather have Bethesda at the reigns. I really do like how the series has evolved under their direction. Yes, I'm an old school Fallout fan, but I don't want to go back to Isometric turn-based combat after seeing the series in first-person. Then again, I wasn't part of the pitchfork wielding mobs that went after Dungeons & Dragons 4th Edition or the Star Wars Prequel Trilogy (prequel trilogy still sucked, but George Lucas didn't 'ruin my childhood').
Still, Interplay had a hand in helping to get the series started. But the guys that made it? That was Black Isle Studios, and they've all moved on. Nobody working on the current MMO project was part of Black Isle back in the day. They made Fallout 1 & 2. Then Interplay gave the rights to somebody else and they made Fallout: Tactics (decent game if you like the Jagged Alliance series), and Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel (just plain bad).
Bethesda has made Fallout 3, and all of the great DLC for it. When they gave the project out, they did so to a team filled with former Black Isle team leads, this was Oblivion Entertainment and their Fallout: New Vegas. And I can bet you any money that they're concept guys have been working on Fallout 4 since before they announced New Vegas (there where working on Fallout 3 back in 04', game released in 08').
And for as stupid as this seems, Interplay has already pulled some shady stuff too. Remember that Interplay released the 'Fallout Trilogy' for PC a while back? If you're not well versed in the series, then you might not know that it was just a re-branding of the Fallout 1/2/Tactics compilations that have been floating around for years. Nope, 'Trilogy' implies 1, 2, & 3. It looked like Interplay was trying to mooch some more sales off of the success of Bethesda's Fallout 3. So Bethesda took Interplay to court over this as well (I don't remember the outcome, still seems shady on Interplay's behalf).
So these companies have been at each others throats, and they're both acting like jerks. But I still have more faith in Bethesda making quality Fallout games than I do in Interplay (the same guys that canned Black Isle while they where working on the 'original' Fallout 3, named Project Van Buren). So legal or otherwise, I hope Bethesda gets the rights back.
I think that Bethesda knows that the game will suck hard, and don't want Interplay sabotaging the new image of Fallout. Interplay has been doing nothing else but frauds in the past 15 years, and Bethesda probably gave them the right to the MMO thinking that they were completely unable to develop it. Maybe now they are afraid of it getting launched without being good enough to deserve the "Fallout" brand, and desperately try to settle this in court with a very dishonest approach. Or I should put a tinfoil hat, you tell me.
bethesda just needs to wise up and stop being sucks pricks about this. if they had no intention of allowing interplay to create this MMO, I don't get why the licensed it out to begin with. Stick to the single player experiences, Bethesda, and let these guys work on the MMO. Worst case scenario, it bombs and you guys can pick up the pieces without any blame. Best case scenario, it banks and you make money for doing jack and shit.
Your post is full of misconceptions.EvolutionKills said:
First of all, Black Isle Studios was never an independent company, it was created as part of Interplay and was always an internal studio. And it was actually formed during the development of Fallout 2. Fallout 1 is credited to just "Interplay". And they did not give the rights "to somebody else".
Second, two of the people working on the current MMO project (who are actually heading the project) were part of Black Isle back in the day:
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_O'Green
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Chris Taylor
Obsidian Entertainment, not Oblivion. And I definitely wouldn't call the FO3 DLC "great", but that's subjective, I guess.
"Fallout Trilogy" was being sold under that name years before Fallout 3 was released. Bethesda claimed otherwise, but they were either wrong or lying.
Ausir said:
Regardless of when Black Isle formed, the guys that worked on and created Fallout formed the core of the team that became Interplay's internal RPG team, Black Isle Studios. I'm not going to give the execs at Interplay the credit for creating the franchise, I'm giving that credit to the designers, programmers, and artists. I am well aware of the difference between a game developer, and a game publisher (I never stated that Black Isle was independent, nice assumption there). As publisher, Interplay maintained the right to Fallout, in exchange for funding the project. Black Isle Studio put in the time and effort to actually create the franchise, even if they didn't actually own the rights to it.
There may be a few Fallout veterans working on the Fallout MMO, but the majority of Black Isle developers are not on board for the project. Christopher Taylor, one of the original designers for Fallout, is back at Interplay working on 'Project V13', their MMO project. They also do have Mark O'Green on the project as well, and he was a dialogue writer for the first two Fallouts. But that's two guys, and it's clear that most everybody else involved with Fallout 1 & 2 have moved on. From the Wikipedia page on Black Isle...
"In 1998, several key members responsible for the division's first title, Fallout, left Interplay to form Troika Games after they "were unable to come to an agreement with Interplay as to how [their] next team should be structured".[5] On December 8, 2003, in the midst of serious financial difficulties, Interplay laid off the entire Black Isle Studios staff.[6] By then, most members had moved on to found a new company called Obsidian Entertainment (2003?present)."
Tim Cain - currently at Carbine Studios
Leonard Boyarsky - currently at Blizzard working on Diablo III
Jason D. Anderson - was hired by Interplay for MMO, has since left to join Turtle Rock Studios
Brian Mitsoda - stint at Troika and Obsidian, currently at DoubleBear Productions
What about the other important guys from Black Isle? Feargus Urquhart, Chris Parker, Darren Monahan, Chris Avellone and Chris Jones? They all founded Obsidian Entertainment and work there to this day (currently working on Dungeon Siege III).
So they (Interplay) didn't 'give away' the rights to Fallout, however they did outsource the development of two new Fallout games to studios that where not Black Isle. These where the 'Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel' on the consoles, and 'Fallout Tactics: Brotherhood of Steel' on the PC. The console game was developed internally by Interplay (but not the Black Isle team), while Tactics was outsourced to Micro Forte. My point being, is that Bethesda has given more thought to who they let work with the Fallout IP. Interplay had two spin-offs, one an internal fiasco, the other a respectable diversion (Metacritic scores of 64 and 82 respectively). Bethesda has let one spin-off be created, a game developed by many of the people who worked on the original two games, and it shows. New Vegas is a strong enough title that it could have been called 'Fallout 5' if Bethesda choose to.
Regardless of how much you liked or did not like the individual DLC's for Fallout 3, Bethesda has helped define our current model for DLC. Between Oblivion and Fallout 3, they've help set the stage for what is expected, and expanding what is possible. What we've seen other developers do on other games, such as Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2, Dead Rising, Red Dead Redemption, Borderland, Bioshock 2 and others; a lot of this can be laid at the feet of Bethesda and their work on their flagship Elder Scrolls series. I mean, how many developers are still giving attention to a game almost a year after it was released?
Yes, it's Obsidian Entertainment. I had Oblivion on the mind, I've been reading a lot and posting a lot about the recently announced Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim.
And no, it had not been the 'Fallout Trilogy' for years. It had been the 'Fallout Collection' for years. I know, I bought a version a few years ago (one of the European versions too, with everything on one DVD). Search 'Fallout Trilogy' in Amazon.com and you'll find at the head of the list the new compilation that Bethesda had a fuss over. Although it's listed as 'Fallout Trilogy - 3 Pack Compilation' on Amazon, the box art has been changed to read 'Fallout Collection'. Also, this 'Fallout Trilogy' has a list date of May 3'rd 2009, so yeah, not created until AFTER the 08' release of Fallout 3. What's the second and third item on that search? The same GSP/White Label European DVD collection release that I bought years ago...
So in short, my post was not 'full of misconceptions'. I had one false statement (about no Fallout veterans on the MMO project) that I've owned up to, and one spelling error (Oblivion Entertainment). I still hold by my original post, and my logic. I trust Bethesda more to plot the course of the Fallout franchise than I do Interplay. Two people does not a whole development team make for a massive MMO project, so Taylor and O'Greens inclusion doesn't instill me with much confidence. Black Isle was still great, and Interplay was still stupid for how they handled the Fallout IP. Both Bethesda AND Interplay have been having shady court dealings, but I like Bethesda better, so I hope they come out on top.
"You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting."
http://www.metacritic.com/game/playstation-2/fallout-brotherhood-of-steel
http://www.metacritic.com/game/pc/fallout-tactics-brotherhood-of-steel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Isle_Studios
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallout_Online
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Taylor_(game_designer)
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Mark_O'Green
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Obsidian_Entertainment
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troika_Games
You're wrong. Fallout Trilogy was first released under that name in 2006, 2 years before Fallout 2. Yes, the current "Fallout Trilogy" edition was released in 2009, but there was an earlier one as well. "Fallout Collection" was the UK name of this compilation, while "Fallout Trilogy" was the US name.EvolutionKills said:
This is what the 2006 edition looked like (released on CDs, not on a DVD like the new one):
http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/File:Fallout-trilogy.jpg
Bethesda not only falsely claimed in court that Fallout Trilogy was first released after Fallout 3, but that Fallout Collection and Fallout Saga compilations, both of which were first released in 2004, also originated after Fallout 3's release.
Both the old and the new Fallout Trilogy packs were probably removed from Amazon.com due to pressure from Bethesda.
Never played Fallout: BoS, eh? That and canceling Van Buren damn near killed Interplay. I'll have to hunt down sources but I think their troubles started with being publicly traded to idiots or some such.ThePeaceFrog said:
Is this site reliable? I just went with the top result.
http://www.mobygames.com/company/interplay-entertainment-corp/history
According to that they were bought by Titus. Aint they the ones what released Carmageddon 64* and made Superman 64?
This seems better... hopefully.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interplay_Entertainment#Financial_troubles
It's not that** bad. At least if you've got a friend to play through with and skip the godawful must've been written by twelve year olds dialogue.poiuppx said:
*one of only two games I refuse to ever play again.
**It functions.
Bethesda must be really pissed that they couldn't stop it outright. How else to explain such a petty and absurd claim.