Biden clenches the nomination.

[lil devils x]

Can you stop making these character judgements throughout this thread? By this point you're not even arguing, you're just labelling people left right and center, and this is no longer even about the discussion?

Like, I'm from a country where war criminals are very openly elected and they use the same logic when it comes to continue promoting conflict. They label everyone they don't like an Armen apologist, they claim they are secret communists who don't care for the welfare of people and lump the March Days on them as if they're responsible for it.

Yea the thing is here though, No one is labeling Trump a rapist because they don't like him, they are labeling him a rapist because we have court records and a long paper trail of pay offs that show him to actually be one from credible sources. Him being recorded bragging about sexually assaulting women didn't exactly work in his favor. He has been abusing his power claiming they can't bring their cases against him because he is immune as president and thus above the law and using his position to have the courts put all of the legal cases against him on hold.

The reason why this is so questionable for Biden is there is no paper trail of this happening, instead we have the opposite, the only woman saying he raped her changed her story in march of this year after none of the news media wanted it because it was boring to say that Biden smelled her hair. She has a pile of evidence from her own reports and recorded words for decades of her praising him, voting for him and telling everyone she wasn't worried about that sort of thing happening in addition to her actually praising him for essentially being a champion for helping women end sexual assault.

None of that happened with Trump's issues. Why would anyone think someone who was raped would go online and praise their rapist for being a champion of women's rights in their fight against sexual assault when she hasn't even had contact with the man since 1993? None of her actions make any sense here and due to her contradictions, AP and WP didn't find her story credible. I am struggling to find it credible either, as with my many years of working with sexual assault victims, this would be extremely unlikely and a first.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

*snip*

I'm not talking about Trump - I'm talking about Saelune calling me a right winger, insinuating I'm a nazi, making an ITT announcement where she assumes everyone against them being a straight white male who is ruining it for everyone else, and now saying that fox is disingenouns is their goals because Saelune assumes their voting patterns and that fox's position as a communist wanting to be rid of all rapists is insincere or borgus. Getting pretty tired of this conduct. I'd like this to cease now, cause it's bordering on harrassment.

 

[Silvanus]

Is it really an improvement to be paying money in order to get insurance with such a high deductible that you can't ever use it? That's an improvement for the insurance companies, to be sure, but not necessarily the one with the policy. The numbers matter. If low-end insurance is just a bad deal in which getting to the point where you could use it would bankrupt you anyway, then it's not an improvement that more people have it instead of no coverage at all.

The deductibles are grotesque, and an enormous flaw in the plan. But they were entirely unrestricted before the law, with individual deductibles routinely almost $2000 higher than what is now the upper limit. Prior to the ACA, the subsidies also didn't exist, so the government was picking up none of the bill for that.

Obviously this doesn't make it satisfactory, and the system is in desperate need of overhaul, which I don't dispute.

To return briefly to the discussion over Supreme Court justices that I was having with @crimson5pheonix , in reference to the question above: of course, one approach that could have ameliorated this very issue is the compulsory expansion of Medicaid coverage, which was included in the ACA but overturned by the Supreme Court.

Let's see who nominated those who overturned it: Bush, Reagan, Reagan, Bush, Clinton, Bush, Obama. And those who dissented: Clinton, Obama. There is not an equivalence in Supreme Court nominees.

 

[lil devils x]

Biden is essentially cut from the same cloth as Obama, and it is this on which he has chosen to rest his candidacy: historically right-of-centre, but having modernised on most social issues out of necessity, in response to a modernised Democratic electorate. Tell me, then, whether you see a significant difference between Sotomayor and Kavanaugh. This equivalence argument requires you to say that you don't, but that's not an honest answer.

The points made about Biden in isolation are independent of Trump. You yourself above said to be mindful of context. The context is thus: who, of two candidates, will be the President for the next four years. Thus every question about one is by necessity not independent of the other. It by necessity involves comparison. That is the context.

While much of Obama And Biden Policies align, Biden has taken a different stance on some of the issues, for example, his policy for Saudi Arabia is different than Trump, Obama and Clinton:

At Debate, Joe Biden Says He Would Make Saudi Arabia a “Pariah”

Biden also made some blunders during Wednesday's Democratic debate, including saying we have to keep “punching at” domestic violence.

theintercept.com

He has recently had Bernie influencing some of his policy, which I think was really needed so I, for one, welcome the changes to his stance on Medicare and student loan debt. We really do need so much relief in those areas and the changes will definitely help.

 

[lil devils x]

I'm not talking about Trump - I'm talking about Saelune calling me a right winger, insinuating I'm a nazi, making an ITT announcement where she assumes everyone against them being a straight white male who is ruining it for everyone else, and now saying that fox is disingenouns is their goals because Saelune assumes their voting patterns and that fox's position as a communist wanting to be rid of all rapists is insincere or borgus. Getting pretty tired of this conduct. I'd like this to cease now, cause it's bordering on harrassment.

Oh, that is just Saelune. She does seem to be quite passionate and gets riled up over these things, I think most people are used to it by now, so we don't notice it as much because it has just become what is expected. I think most of us just considered it to " liven up" the forums when we get bored. I think we all have been at the receiving end at one point, I wouldn't take it personally. XD

ALSO, this is pretty much a continued discussion with Fox and Crimson Phoenix from 4 years ago, when many here felt they actually helped get Trump elected by supporting and spreading debunked conspiracy theories about Clinton here as well, so some of that may be about past actions included. When it comes down to the wire, in both elections they seem to let Trump get a pass on anything and everything he has done and make whatever democrat that is running out to be the antichrist. This just seems to be 2016 election 2.0.

I do not think it is more about what Biden actually did here as much as it is about pushing the agenda they want, though it is confusing as to what that is exactly, because they have claimed not to support Trump, but do not appear to consider Bernie or his plans important enough to fight for. If they wanted to help Bernie, they would listen to what he is actually telling them to do to help him accomplish his goals rather than actively fight against them.

I am in no way saying turn a blind eye to Biden's actions, it is just a matter of putting them perspective.

 

[Neuromancer]

When it comes down to the wire, in both elections they seem to let Trump get a pass on anything and everything he has done and make whatever democrat that is running out to be the antichrist. This just seems to be 2016 election 2.0.

As opposed to, when it comes down to the wire, letting whatever democrat get a pass on anything and everything they have done and making Trump to be the Antichrist? Yeah, this is 2016 election 2.0

In before this gets spun as me supporting Trump.

 

[lil devils x]

As opposed to, when it comes down to the wire, letting whatever democrat get a pass on anything and everything they have done and making Trump to be the Antichrist? Yeah, this is 2016 election 2.0

In before this gets spun as me supporting Trump.

No one makes Trump look like the antichrist other than himself. Trying to save Americans that will die because of his actions is what most people who care about the people would actually do here.

Trump's actions are the only thing that makes him look bad. Period. Trump even makes Bush look good...

 

[Neuromancer]

No one makes Trump look like the antichrist other than himself. Trying to save Americans that will die because of his actions is what most people who care about the people would actually do here.

Whining in a video game forum about which brand of corporate shake gets thrown in the white house isn't saving lives. Direct action and mutual aid are.

 

[XsjadoBlayde]

As is life, when you're dealt a shit hand, don't just throw it all away in spite. Aside a proper successful violent uprising, there is little choice other than to go into full damage control. As always, the people who suffer the consequences the most are the poor and vulnerable in all this, it isn't just about the self. Playing into the double-standards the republicans consistently play off in these situations is only biting off your nose to spite the face. Ultimately, when one choice is expected to abide by certain moral standards while the other isn't, regardless of their inner intent, it's wiser to pick the one with a sense of obligation. They're not you're friend, they're your lawyer. They may not give a shit about you, they may be selfish, but as long as they care enough about their own reputation in court to do their job properly, that's all that matters when your options are so limited. Ruthless conservative press is a major problem, that needs to the focus of the left, as people are consistently, intentionally uninformed or misinformed which leads us into this cycle of shit choices over and over again. Repeating the same mistakes as before will not help anyone except the richest of republicans. Again.

 

[lil devils x]

Whining in a video game forum about which brand of corporate shake gets thrown in the white house isn't saving lives. Direct action and mutual aid are.

Of course that is why I have spent many years volunteering at the Women's and children's shelter, free clinic, working with MSF, donating to those who are helping me get these things accomplished, served on my city council in order to get a hospital built and have done the footwork going door to door to get the necessary signatures needed, in addition to contacting our elected officials and have attended town halls. Of course what I am able to do now after surviving a different respiratory illness ( not Covid-19, but a lesser known one that does just as much damage to the lungs) while working with MSF is greatly restricted, so am in the progress on shifting into research instead of interacting with patients directly due to the risks to my health. Due to the severe damage to my lung tissue, even getting a cold puts my life at risk, so I have to be very careful, even if I am lucky enough to manage to survive the current Pandemic.

What each of us actually does or have done is in no way impacted by the conversations we have in our old haunts, such as this. I was a gamer first before I chose to practice medicine. Most of us here already know a great deal about one another over the years already, so this has been where we have discussed these things for a good many years now. Accepting what is in our power to do and not get done in our limited lifetimes and capability is the first step in actually being able to make headway. You set big goals long term, and take each step you can get in the meantime as a win.

 

[Sneed's SeednFeed]

*snip*

This is pretty bad and toxic behaviour. One person gets away with something yet the ones who are being targeted, get accused of being disingenous or having whatever variety of aspersions cast on their character, are just supposed to tolerate this because of personal beef or because you decided they are persona non-grata? Have you ever considered that privilege also comes in terms of deligitimising arguments and objections that people may have with having to inherit a political system that they have no faith in, and that you simply painting them with the brush is only going to increase their alienation and lead them further to the right due to having such an arrogant attitude?

As to that unrelated bit about Bernie - Bernie is not the leader of a cult of personality. People want the policies, and if Bernie decides to gamble with his arch nemesis over whatever issue, that does not mean people have to fall in line. This is Stalinist logic at work here and both fox and crimson have made it repeatedly known in this thread that they are sceptical of the parliamentarian system as a whole. It's possible that they think that the system in place is insufficient and their concerns and desire to not participate it have been met with ridicule and arrogance.

 

[lil devils x]

As is life, when you're dealt a shit hand, don't just throw it all away in spite. Aside a proper successful violent uprising, there is little choice other than to go into full damage control. As always, the people who suffer the consequences the most are the poor and vulnerable in all this, it isn't just about the self. Playing into the double-standards the republicans consistently play off in these situations is only biting off your nose to spite the face. Ultimately, when one choice is expected to abide by certain moral standards while the other isn't, regardless of their inner intent, it's wiser to pick the one with a sense of obligation. They're not you're friend, they're your lawyer. They may not give a shit about you, they may be selfish, but as long as they care enough about their own reputation in court to do their job properly, that's all that matters when your options are so limited. Ruthless conservative press is a major problem, that needs to the focus of the left, as people are consistently, intentionally uninformed or misinformed which leads us into this cycle of shit choices over and over again. Repeating the same mistakes as before will not help anyone except the richest of republicans. Again.

And the scary thing is those that are actually trying to bring about a violent uprising are actually the ones that will endanger everyone further rather than bring about a change for the better. Then we have an incompetent president urging these guys on, this only gets worse. I am sure his tune would be different if they were protesting him at the white house or were middle eastern or black. His level of incompetence never ceases to amaze.

Trump tweets support for Michigan protesters as 2020 stress mounts

President Donald Trump sided with protesters -- some of whom were armed -- in Michigan on Friday, for their effort to reopen parts of the state after Democratic Gov. Gretchen Whitmer extended her emergency declaration keeping some businesses shuttered amid the coronavirus pandemic.

www.cnn.com

Michigan Residents Protest Gretchen Whitmer's Orders With Nazi & Confederate Flags

Organizers from the Michigan Conservative Coalition and the Michigan Freedom Fund asked protestors to gather in downtown Lansing, at “high noon” as crowds gathered with offensive imagery and flags in defiance of quarantine measures.

www.refinery29.com

Three family members charged in shooting death of security guard who told a customer to put on a face mask | CNN

Three family members have been charged in the killing of a security guard who told a customer at a Michigan Family Dollar store to wear a state-mandated face mask, officials said on Monday.

www.cnn.com

If Trump Thinks It's Safe for His Followers to Gather at Protests, Why Doesn't He Attend One?

The president has no plans to violate his own stay-at-home order, but he is encouraging his followers to risk their lives by gathering to protest governors.

theintercept.com

I completely agree. When we have a conservative media blitz constantly promoting an endless barrage of misinformation, conspiracy theories or just outright lies intended to send people into a panic so they lose sight of reality and what is actually at stake here it makes it extremely difficult to keep people focused on what is and is not really happening that will affect their daily lives for a very long time. It really is scary how bad it is right now tbh. People would rather worry about " their cumin fer our gunz" than being able to have the medication and treatment they need to stay alive. You literally hear this craziness everywhere you go here locally. Whether it is the guy at the DMV spouting off about how "Clinton was having people murdered" to Betty at the local diner telling people that Obama was a muslim or the 2nd grade teacher sending articles comparing Bernie Sanders to the Nazi's on Facebook. It really is everywhere and until it is actually adequately addressed, we can only expect this to get worse, not better.

 

[lil devils x]

This is pretty bad and toxic behaviour. One person gets away with something yet the ones who are being targeted, get accused of being disingenous or having whatever variety of aspersions cast on their character, are just supposed to tolerate this because of personal beef or because you decided they are persona non-grata? Have you ever considered that privilege also comes in terms of deligitimising arguments and objections that people may have with having to inherit a political system that they have no faith in, and that you simply painting them with the brush is only going to increase their alienation and lead them further to the right due to having such an arrogant attitude?

As to that unrelated bit about Bernie - Bernie is not the leader of a cult of personality. People want the policies, and if Bernie decides to gamble with his arch nemesis over whatever issue, that does not mean people have to fall in line. This is Stalinist logic at work here and both fox and crimson have made it repeatedly known in this thread that they are sceptical of the parliamentarian system as a whole. It's possible that they think that the system in place is insufficient and their concerns and desire to not participate it have been met with ridicule and arrogance.

I apologize if I came across as dismissing Saleune's aggressiveness of her arguments, that was not my intention, We have just been here so many times, I take for granted that you likely missed much of that. She has been banned and reinstated and reprimanded in the past plenty, it was really a site to behold. I guess that is why I don't consider it as severe anymore, as what will be the result, she get's silenced entirely with another ban for going off the deep end again? I already saw what happens when they ban everyone for getting riled up, we just wind up with less people overall.

I am not dismissing arguments due to past arguments, I actually address each and every single issue brought up, whether that means showing evidence that the article about Clinton murdering people was debunked by the deceased's own family or the proof that their charity was highly rated and all of their financial records were available to view at will and the proposed discrepancies were entirely invented and did not exist. This time around, they have taken one woman and multiplied her into 3 women and are ignoring her entire documented history as evidence. How you can take Tara Reade and everything she has said and turn her into 3 women he raped is beyond me tbh. Where are the 3 women they are claiming Biden raped if their argument is genuine here? you tell me what I shoudl make of that then eh?

 

[JoJo]

Locking this thread per Nick's warning as this is getting much too personal again. Please use the report button if you have a problem with another user's conduct.