Biden clenches the nomination.

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fOx

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What rape victims? Lets see it went from Tara repeatedly saying that she wasn't worried about Biden doing anything like that and praising him for his work to help end sexual assault
The allegation was that he pushed her against a wall, put his hands underneath her clothes, and penetrated her vaginea with his fingers. Why are you now painting him as a hero of sexual assault survivors? Are you saying that she didn't also accuse him of sexual assault? I'm sure she said a lot of things over the roughly 30 years since this happened. Many of which were probably contradictory in tone. That's quite common in this sort of situation, especially when you're talking about a major political figure.

to she was raped
Do you really want to argue over the semantics of whether or not sticking his fingers up her vaginae without her consent is rape, or "merely" sexual assault? You're candidate doesn't come out of this looking like anything less then a monster in either situation.

and now she has turned into 3 people? WOW this story really has grown to one hell of a feat of science here.
I'm not sure this is really a good time to try and appear witty or sarcastic. It's in somewhat bad taste.

I was referring to crimson and worgen's discussion comparing biden, favorably, to trump and cavanaugh. I wasn't saying that biden had raped three people. I said that three people is within the acceptable limits, because that's the exact number of people (to my knowledge) who have accused kavanaugh. In other words, if the democrats defense of biden is that he raped fewer people then trump and kavanaugh, then they have sacrificed the moral high ground forever. They are the moral equivalent to the trump supporters they hate so much.
 

Neuromancer

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I'm honestly quite floored by the rape apologetics present here.

But I am seeing far too many liberal feminists and "moderate" Americans dismiss Tara Reade's confession or bury their heads in the sand and act like nothing's happening. Whatever happened to #MeToo and #IBelieveHer? Such grand hypocrisy. It sickens me to the very core. The audacity too, of having witnessed Biden supporters call her a Russian plant. These people single-handedly betrayed every single rape victim whose voice gets silenced or stigmatized as a liar. For Joe goddamn Biden.
Like fucking clockwork.
 

crimson5pheonix

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My opinion is that normalizing the buyout of the party was the end of the Democratic party. The hypocrisy of brushing aside Biden's rape allegations is just Washington business as usual, for both parties, and has been for pretty much all of America's history (didn't bother repudiating Jefferson's relations with his slaves until well into the 20th century, did we).
I mean, fair.

Ya know what? Lets be real here, crimson has no interest in punishing ANY rapists. Back when Hillary was running, he was still against supporting her and she is not a rapist. So all of this 'anti-rape' spiel is a huge lie to hide that they just want Trump to stay in power.
That's a pretty extreme stance, especially to take against someone saying they aren't voting for a rapist.
 

lil devils x

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The allegation was that he pushed her against a wall, put his hands underneath her clothes, and penetrated her vaginea with his fingers. Why are you now painting him as a hero of sexual assault survivors? Are you saying that she didn't also accuse him of sexual assault? I'm sure she said a lot of things over the roughly 30 years since this happened. Many of which were probably contradictory in tone. That's quite common in this sort of situation, especially when you're talking about a major political figure.

Do you really want to argue over the semantics of whether or not sticking his fingers up her vaginae without her consent is rape, or "merely" sexual assault? You're candidate doesn't come out of this looking like anything less then a monster in either situation.


I'm not sure this is really a good time to try and appear witty or sarcastic. It's in somewhat bad taste.

I was referring to crimson and worgen's discussion comparing biden, favorably, to trump and cavanaugh. I wasn't saying that biden had raped three people. I said that three people is within the acceptable limits, because that's the exact number of people (to my knowledge) who have accused kavanaugh. In other words, if the democrats defense of biden is that he raped fewer people then trump and kavanaugh, then they have sacrificed the moral high ground forever. They are the moral equivalent to the trump supporters they hate so much.
Way to intentionally misrepresent what was stated. The ONLY person I have seen thus far that presented Biden as a Champion hero for sexual assault survivors was actually Tara Reade. I called him a Creepy LOTR Golem, Dirty old man, Disgusting and gross.. but hey, let's only listen to part of what she has said and pick and choose which parts you like that suit your push to get Trump elected right? If you are going to use her words, let's use all of her words then and figure out how they can all be truth.
 

fOx

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I mean, fair.



That's a pretty extreme stance, especially to take against someone saying they aren't voting for a rapist.
Doesn't this mean that she's okay voting for a rapist, and you're not?

Man, I said earlier that I agreed with zizek, and that I hoped that trumps victory would push the country further left. And I meant it. But I never actually, seriously planned to vote for him. I certainly never defended him. Good heavens.
 

fOx

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Way to intentionally misrepresent what was stated. The ONLY person I have seen thus far that presented Biden as a Champion hero for sexual assault survivors was actually Tara Reade. I called him a Creepy LOTR Golem, Dirty old man, Disgusting and gross.. but hey, let's only listen to part of what she has said and pick and choose which parts you like that suit your push to get Trump elected right?
So you weren't downplaying the allegations? Out of curiosity, do you think they're true? And would you vote for him, if they were?
 

Zeke davis

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In her original story she put online that she went back and edited just recently. I was using her direct quote.

"Things at the office got hard for me and it was obvious I was going to be forced out with legitimate or not so legitimate reasons. "

"I wish I could say there was a happy ending, that Sen. Biden apologized or that he helped make amends, he did not. I do not even know if he realized why I left. Biden was protected by his chief of staff from unpleasant events, like a young king. "



According to her earlier version of the Story, Biden likely wouldn't even know why she left. Why would someone who sexually assaulted you NOT know why you left?

How was Biden responsible for why she left if he was protected like a king from even knowing why it happened?
I advise you actually read the medium post. Because she didn't actually delete any of that like you say she does. I know because i first read that second bit from there.

Her picture of biden seems more like the "throwaway the victim if they aren't fun anymore and ignore it" type of guy rather than the "Keep tabs in case they speak up" kind.

A king may setup what his subordinates do generally while also not wanting to hear any specifics. And as she says she doesn't actually know if that was the case or not when it comes to stuff like this.

As i was about to post legitimate reasons bit is interesting but could have meant budgets cuts. That's how vague it is. I feel that's what we would find (if anything) since all comments from people who remember her at that time were nothing but positive.
 

lil devils x

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Doesn't this mean that she's okay voting for a rapist, and you're not?

Man, I said earlier that I agreed with zizek, and that I hoped that trumps victory would push the country further left. And I meant it. But I never actually, seriously planned to vote for him. I certainly never defended him. Good heavens.
Tara Reade already said she supposedly voted for her Rapist...
 

Zeke davis

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Tara Reade already said she supposedly voted for her Rapist...
Because she thought he changed, yes.
That’s not what she thinks now.

Though I do wonder how other posters would think about voting for him if he was an open repented rapist or whatever.
 

fOx

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We can punish some rapists, or we can punish no rapists. Letting Trump be President punishes no rapists.
Wait, if they're both rapists, then how does it make any difference? Wouldn't the same number of rapists get punished in either case? That number presumable being zero?

Also, if we adopted total communist revolution, we could punish ALL rapists. Just... an idea.
 

lil devils x

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I advise you actually read the medium post. Because she didn't actually delete any of that like you say she does. I know because i first read that second bit from there.

Her picture of biden seems more like the "throwaway the victim if they aren't fun anymore and ignore it" type of guy rather than the "Keep tabs in case they speak up" kind.

A king may setup what his subordinates do generally while also not wanting to hear any specifics. And as she says she doesn't actually know if that was the case or not when it comes to stuff like this.

As i was about to post legitimate reasons bit is interesting but could have meant budgets cuts. That's how vague it is. I feel that's what we would find (if anything) since all comments from people who remember her at that time were nothing but positive.
You don't have to delete anything to change the meaning to say the opposite. Please show me where I used the word delete?
“But this is not a story about sexual misconduct” ,
“But this is not only a story about sexual misconduct”
*One is a story about sexual misconduct, one is not.

“Then, I went to Senate Personnel for help. No one helped me. I was moved into a solitary, windowless office and told to leave. I resigned or I would say, I was fired, or should I say, I was forced to resign. I was told to look for another job. No one would interview me on the Hill for any position.

*Who fired her or asked her to resign? and how would that be Biden's fault if he didn't even know why she left? At no time would I ever think that the guy who raped me would not know why I was angry. According to her, a member of the staff bullied her but yet it is Biden's fault when he doesn't even know about it?

"It is a story about when a member of Congress allows staff to threaten or belittle or bully on their behalf unchecked"

I was told that Senator Biden wanted me to “serve drinks at an event with some donors ( all men) because he “liked my legs” and thought I was “pretty.” These “events” were often all older, wealthy males.
I was a former model and actress, so at the time such comments were of no consequence to me. "

How uncommon is it for a model to be asked to serve drinks? It is actually extremely common for both male and female models to be asked to do such things as it comes with the territory of modeling. There is actually an entire market for this:
Also being a campaign, it is also not uncommon for staff members to be expect to do these things due to budget constraints often not allowing for additional servers to be budgeted in, and likely she was not the only staff member asked to do so. If she was fired because she refused to serve drinks, that isn't really a sexual harassment issue, it is a failure to do your job to help pull off an event. Thinking your job is beneath you is a personality issue moreso than a sexual issue. I have served food and drinks for a good number of events I have volunteered for and having degrees in both Immunology and Pediatric Medicine does not somehow mean that is now beneath me to do if that is what is needed at the time. Sure, I have known a good number of people with this attitude that everything is beneath them, but I view it as a personality flaw that yes could interfere with the ability to do her job if that was why she thought it somehow diminished her to do so.

Intern positions can be hard to come by at times, her not being hired by someone else likely had nothing to do with her previous job and just she was not what they were looking for. According to her own admissions, she didn't even get through a proper interview, she as not " hired because she interviewed better or had more qualifications than the other applicants She just lucked out that Biden walked by at the time and said hire her , bypassing the normal screening process. Perhaps that was a mistake on Biden's part and she was not actually qualified to be there and over time that became more apparent. Having some people like you, or having friends at work does not necessarily mean you are good at your job. Without performance records that is more difficult to find out.
 

lil devils x

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Because she thought he changed, yes.
That’s not what she thinks now.

Though I do wonder how other posters would think about voting for him if he was an open repented rapist or whatever.
If he was a rapist he should be in jail and not on the ballot. However, Trump SHOULD be in jail because we have court documents showing him to actually be a rapist. HE just agreed to pay his victim a crap ton of money for the rest of her life since then to keep quiet about it. It doesn't change what happened at the time or in court however.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than Bernie being on the ballot right now and winning come November. I am not just willing to let someone, even as much as I dislike as Biden take the fall for something that he might not have done when there are too many inconsistencies for me to convict him without more information provided.

All of the other women say the same thing Tara did initially and their stories have not changed. She did not change her story until after the candidates she supported lost the primary to Biden. Why change your story now, after she already voted for him as VP under Obama and championed him as a hero for sexual assault survivors? I totally think he harassed the shit out of her and probably should have been kicked in the nuts at the time he smelled her hair, but that is a far cry than actual rape. The whole not that kind of vibe talk though takes it an entirely different direction and this woman being a writer who does not seem to struggle with the intended mood she sets of her pieces, she is extremely aware of her tone and that is blatantly clear in her writing style while she recounts her story.

If Tara had not gone as far as she did to openly promote Biden and contradict herself, I would find that far more credible. It is difficult to do so when there are just too many things not lining up in her numerous stories. I am inclined to believe her earlier accounts as being accurate, as we have found more often than not, one's account events frequently lose accuracy the more time that lapses.

She also appears to blame staff rather than Biden for her bullying and Biden not even knowing why she left, The rapist not knowing why their victim left and it not being an actual relationship just isn't adding up here.
 

Zeke davis

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If he was a rapist he should be in jail and not on the ballot. However, Trump SHOULD be in jail because we have court documents showing him to actually be a rapist. HE just agreed to pay his victim a crap ton of money for the rest of her life since then to keep quiet about it. It doesn't change what happened at the time or in court however.

Don't get me wrong, I would love nothing more than Bernie being on the ballot right now and winning come November. I am not just willing to let someone, even as much as I dislike as Biden take the fall for something that he might not have done when there are too many inconsistencies for me to convict him without more information provided.

All of the other women say the same thing Tara did initially and their stories have not changed. She did not change her story until after the candidates she supported lost the primary to Biden. Why change your story now, after she already voted for him as VP under Obama and championed him as a hero for sexual assault survivors? I totally think he harassed the shit out of her and probably should have been kicked in the nuts at the time he smelled her hair, but that is a far cry than actual rape. The whole not that kind of vibe talk though takes it an entirely different direction and this woman being a writer who does not seem to struggle with the intended mood she sets of her pieces, she is extremely aware of her tone and that is blatantly clear in her writing style while she recounts her story.

If Tara had not gone as far as she did to openly promote Biden and contradict herself, I would find that far more credible. It is difficult to do so when there are just too many things not lining up in her numerous stories. I am inclined to believe her earlier accounts as being accurate, as we have found more often than not, one's account events frequently lose accuracy the more time that lapses.

She also appears to blame staff rather than Biden for her bullying and Biden not even knowing why she left, The rapist not knowing why their victim left and it not being an actual relationship just isn't adding up here.
To address your previous post: I don't think the edits change enough of the piece to affect your overall points which are kinda vaild but it shows why there's a need to go further than the complaints like what the women's group said. Doesn't mean we will find anything but as along as how they do it is careful enough to prevent any leaks it's worth a shot.

Your main point that Tara is such a misfit for how being such a misfit for how a rape victims behaves and her version of biden is such a misfit for a rapist is only backed by your say-so.

I don't want to deny that you have experience in these matters but so does the founder of RAINN who says Tara fits(and presumably doesn't find the behavior of her view Biden too outlandish to argue against) and the rape victims in other boards I've seen that believe that he's an assaulter.
 
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Gordon_4

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Okay, first of all @Lil Devil’s X it’s Gollum. A Golem is a figure in Jewish Folklore and the third stage evolution of the Pokémon Geodude.

Second of all, how is it this fucking clown or the incumbent clown are allowed to hold office? How is it that they can have these offences alleged against them and be able to obtain their security clearances?

Thirdly, how can the DNCs own skullduggery agents not have known this and used it as a reason to keep Biden away from the nomination because he is electoral poison?

And fourthly, get fucking compulsory voting and stand up a Federal Electoral Commission to maintain the Electoral Rolls and hold your fucking elections on weekends and keep the polls open until like, 7PM
 

Saelune

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I mean, fair.



That's a pretty extreme stance, especially to take against someone saying they aren't voting for a rapist.
Not voting against Trump is voting for a rapist.

Wait, if they're both rapists, then how does it make any difference? Wouldn't the same number of rapists get punished in either case? That number presumable being zero?

Also, if we adopted total communist revolution, we could punish ALL rapists. Just... an idea.
Kavanaugh is a Supreme Court Justice until he dies or retires. Trump will likely get to add more rapists to the SC if given 4 more years. And Republicans NEVER remove their rapists. Democrats do have some level of accountability. Al Franken, Anthony Weiner, even that guy Edward whatever who was Kerry's VP pick has since fallen from grace into obscurity for his actions.

Yeah but you won't.

Seriously, if this was about opposing ALL rapists, you guys would have voted for Hillary.
 

Sneed's SeednFeed

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Yeah but you won't.

Seriously, if this was about opposing ALL rapists, you guys would have voted for Hillary.
Can you stop making these character judgements throughout this thread? By this point you're not even arguing, you're just labelling people left right and center, and this is no longer even about the discussion?

Like, I'm from a country where war criminals are very openly elected and they use the same logic when it comes to continue promoting conflict. They label everyone they don't like an Armen apologist, they claim they are secret communists who don't care for the welfare of people and lump the March Days on them as if they're responsible for it.
 

lil devils x

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Okay, first of all @Lil Devil’s X it’s Gollum. A Golem is a figure in Jewish Folklore and the third stage evolution of the Pokémon Geodude.

Second of all, how is it this fucking clown or the incumbent clown are allowed to hold office? How is it that they can have these offences alleged against them and be able to obtain their security clearances?

Thirdly, how can the DNCs own skullduggery agents not have known this and used it as a reason to keep Biden away from the nomination because he is electoral poison?

And fourthly, get fucking compulsory voting and stand up a Federal Electoral Commission to maintain the Electoral Rolls and hold your fucking elections on weekends and keep the polls open until like, 7PM
Ty for the correction, I think I spell Golem that way every time by default due to conditioning from playing Pokemon and Minecraft. :)
Golem is ALSO

The reason why the DNC vetted this clown is that Tara Reade told everyone publicly for years that she was not worried about Biden doing anything like that and didn't get that sort of vibe from him and openly and publicly supported online repeatedly and had no reason to think she would possibly change her story after she was deemed a " nonstory" when she told everyone that all he did was smell her hair and touch her neck. I am not even sure if Biden was the one to tell her she had nice legs, from the way she tells it she just heard that from someone else rather than Biden actually even doing it. She said Biden likely didn't even know why she left when she left so it seems pretty difficult to believe that Biden forced her out when she claimed he didn't even know why she left. Her original complaint in the Union seemed to be more about staff bullying her after she refused to serve drinks at fundraising event. That isn't even in the same as realm as "Biden raped me". With what she had said all the way up until March of this year, why would anyone think it could be? She changed her story AFTER she praised him for his work to help end sexual abuse of women and voted for him when he ran with Obama and apparently bragged about him being her "boss who speaks the truth" online as well years after she had any contact with him or anyone else from his campaign. It makes it a bit more difficult to believe it happened when you look at everything she did to show that never happened.

His whole smelling girls hair and touching shoulders and crap though is well known and documented and that alone to me is creepy as F, but I also do understand that has more to do with his age and what was appropriate during his time. He just comes across as the typical " Dirty old man", but then again, so did Bush Sr too and this is fairly common in politics. I am in no way saying it is right, but it isn't like it is all that unexpected fir a man of his age and the whole " baby kissing" mindset of the political atmosphere that has existed for so long. The whole "put your hand on their shoulder to embolden them and exude confidence" nonsense of his era is all about posturing, not unlike the idea of the" firm handshake" it all goes in that pile of backwards thinking that hopefully will die out one day. Luckily, a pandemic may help that happen sooner rather than later due to people not wanting to touch others.

Some states have mail in voting, I would like to see this become universal for the Pandemic and make it standard afterwards to finally end the voter suppression in the US. Republicans have long used long lines and horrible locations to intentionally suppress votes. When that ends, they will lose seats but at least more people will have a say. Republicans likely cannot maintain a majority with higher turnout, but it would also solve a lot of problems long term.

 

Silvanus

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As my link says, the people getting insurance don't get insurance that helps, and in fact a lot of middle class people who get their insurance through work have lost coverage because of ACA. The net result is that ACA doesn't cover people in case of illness, which is last I checked the point of having insurance.

So yes, I contend that it isn't an improvement, because statistically things have not improved.
Your link, yes, which describes the ACA as insufficient but "A step forward". Do you consider the rate of health-related bankruptcy to be the only significant statistical metric? Because it seems that could be addressed through expansion, subsidy, regulation, not necessarily through repeal-and-replace.

In addition, I notice how you're only really talking about one element of the ACA-- namely the expansion of workplace-connected health insurance. The ACA also expanded Medicaid to those on <138% of the Federal Poverty Line; it also provided subsidies for those on between 100 & 400% of the FPL to purchase insurance. Do you object equally to those measures?

I think the biggest threat to women's rights are people who don't look at context or seriously consider what they're arguing for. Biden himself put several of the conservative judges everyone is scared about in their positions. Biden has argued against women's rights for decades. Biden is a rapist.

This is all independent of Trump, that's the point here. You can point at Trump all day, but if your arguments are "we can't vote for a rapist who might appoint conservative judges, we have to vote Biden", I roll my eyes because that's what's being voted for.
If you seriously believe that Biden is as likely as Trump to appoint extreme Conservative judges to the Supreme Court, I don't know what to say. It's quite ridiculous. They both have very, very different electoral coalitions to which they need to appeal.

Biden is essentially cut from the same cloth as Obama, and it is this on which he has chosen to rest his candidacy: historically right-of-centre, but having modernised on most social issues out of necessity, in response to a modernised Democratic electorate. Tell me, then, whether you see a significant difference between Sotomayor and Kavanaugh. This equivalence argument requires you to say that you don't, but that's not an honest answer.

The points made about Biden in isolation are independent of Trump. You yourself above said to be mindful of context. The context is thus: who, of two candidates, will be the President for the next four years. Thus every question about one is by necessity not independent of the other. It by necessity involves comparison. That is the context.
 
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