Biden helps avert railway strike.

Phoenixmgs

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You didn't ask me about Democrats. Though yeah, it's not like Democrats sabotaged Vietnam peace talks to influence a presidential election. And Ronald Reagan is a direct source of a *lot* of stupid neo-liberal bullshit that fell to pieces over the years. And democrats didn't start banning abortions.

Although yeah, in my lifetime a Democratic government hasn't lead directly into a recession in the way Republican one's do.

Do you, like, own a goal post moving company or what?
My bad,

Please explain how republican overarching policies have made the country significantly worse than democrats. (I figured that would be assumed)

What the left did during covid literally caused a recession... And Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law in 1999. Democrats didn't codify Roe either and they knew it needed codifying.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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My bad,

Please explain how republican overarching policies have made the country significantly worse than democrats. (I figured that would be assumed)

What the left did during covid literally caused a recession... And Clinton signed the Gramm-Leach-Bliley Act into law in 1999. Democrats didn't codify Roe either and they knew it needed codifying.
Reagan being so wildly popular is what made the Democrats go "third way" in the first place. If the dems get the blame for banning abortions, the Reps get the blame for that. The GLBA was introduced by 3 republicans And passed with bipartisan votes where democrats were more likely to oppose than republicans
1666980578881.png

No more of this "The Republicans are never responsible for their own actions" bullshit

EDIT:
Feel free to browse
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Reagan being so wildly popular is what made the Democrats go "third way" in the first place. If the dems get the blame for banning abortions, the Reps get the blame for that. The GLBA was introduced by 3 republicans And passed with bipartisan votes where democrats were more likely to oppose than republicans
View attachment 7278

No more of this "The Republicans are never responsible for their own actions" bullshit

EDIT:
Feel free to browse
But it was signed into law by a democratic president who could've just vetoed it. The whole abortion thing is basically that scene from Watchmen where the comedian shots the pregnant girl and Dr. Manhattan does nothing and it basically asks the open ended question of what is worse and I honestly don't know what is worse in that scenario. I don't know why you keep defending your team so vigorously when they ain't a good team plain and simple. I don't care if the DNC or GOP is say 10% better than the other side, they're both really bad and there's no reason for me to join either team. To think voting for democrats is significantly making people's lives better is just a bunch of bullshit backed really by no solid evidence. The fact that money is donated basically equally from corporate America to the GOP and DNC says just about everything anyone needs to know.
 

Silvanus

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The fact that money is donated basically equally from corporate America to the GOP and DNC says just about everything anyone needs to know.
That's not true, though. Corporate America bankrolls both parties, and both parties are full of shills-- but Corporate America bankrolls the Republicans a great deal more, and as a result the Republican Party is almost exclusively shills.

 
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tstorm823

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That's not true, though. Corporate America bankrolls both parties, and both parties are full of shills-- but Corporate America bankrolls the Republicans a great deal more, and as a result the Republican Party is almost exclusively shills.

That source does not support your claim. That article is analyzing the fraction of a percent of fundraising given by specifically CEOs to political groups. Dark money went more to Democrats than Republicans in 2020 and that dark money was over 100x as plentiful as the personal donations of CEOs to campaigns in their sample. And that's before you account for intangible benefits like having almost the entire entertainment industry shill for one party.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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But it was signed into law by a democratic president who could've just vetoed it.
Congratulations, you have figured out that Democrats who've adopted Reagan's neo-liberal policies are corporate shills. Do you want to actually back the folks who voted against it or not?
The whole abortion thing is basically that scene from Watchmen where the comedian shots the pregnant girl and Dr. Manhattan does nothing and it basically asks the open ended question of what is worse and I honestly don't know what is worse in that scenario.
The Comedian is worse, obviously. Not saying Dr Manhattan is good but it's plainly obvious that The Comedian is worse. How is that even a question? How doomer pilled are you?
I don't know why you keep defending your team so vigorously when they ain't a good team plain and simple. I don't care if the DNC or GOP is say 10% better than the other side, they're both really bad and there's no reason for me to join either team. To think voting for democrats is significantly making people's lives better is just a bunch of bullshit backed really by no solid evidence. The fact that money is donated basically equally from corporate America to the GOP and DNC says just about everything anyone needs to know.
...this is "vigorous"? I'm just pointing out that making an ego vote every two years for no-hoper candidates with zero power isn't "sending a message", it's just burning your ballot with a side order of sanctimony
 

Silvanus

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That source does not support your claim. That article is analyzing the fraction of a percent of fundraising given by specifically CEOs to political groups. Dark money went more to Democrats than Republicans in 2020 and that dark money was over 100x as plentiful as the personal donations of CEOs to campaigns in their sample. And that's before you account for intangible benefits like having almost the entire entertainment industry shill for one party.
The amount of money given by CEOs is certainly not an exhaustive or perfect metric, but it is supportive: to argue it says nothing about the political inclinations of such people is disingenuous.

But yes, there are better metrics, agreed. Dark money could potentially be one, but it's hard to say for certain, because the sources are (of course) opaque. How much is actually coming from corporations/corporatists? How much is instead coming from (for instance) inherited wealth?

It's also noteworthy that the article you linked says that dark money favoured the Dems in 2020... breaking the trend. It favoured Republicans before. We know corporate America got a bit shaky about the instability that Trump's style of governing brought. They supported the Republicans in every election until a candidate they saw as an unsafe pair of hands (and who you deem to be a Democrat, no less!)
 

Phoenixmgs

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That's not true, though. Corporate America bankrolls both parties, and both parties are full of shills-- but Corporate America bankrolls the Republicans a great deal more, and as a result the Republican Party is almost exclusively shills.

Looks like energy is the main reason, which makes sense.


Congratulations, you have figured out that Democrats who've adopted Reagan's neo-liberal policies are corporate shills. Do you want to actually back the folks who voted against it or not?
The Comedian is worse, obviously. Not saying Dr Manhattan is good but it's plainly obvious that The Comedian is worse. How is that even a question? How doomer pilled are you?
...this is "vigorous"? I'm just pointing out that making an ego vote every two years for no-hoper candidates with zero power isn't "sending a message", it's just burning your ballot with a side order of sanctimony
Basically all of them are shills, put on those sunglasses man, I'll fight you in a back alley for a hilariously long time.

I'd lean to the person doing the actual bad thing as worse but Dr. Manhattan could probably have stopped that situation with as little effort as a single thought. Anyway, I wouldn't be pro either side.

I'm merely doing my part and that's all I can do. If everyone did their parts...
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Basically all of them are shills, put on those sunglasses man, I'll fight you in a back alley for a hilariously long time.
Who's fighting?
I'd lean to the person doing the actual bad thing as worse but Dr. Manhattan could probably have stopped that situation with as little effort as a single thought. Anyway, I wouldn't be pro either side.
Neat. A national abortion access bill worth a damn would cost significantly more political capital than "just a thought" and would've been just as easily State's Rights'd away as Roe
I'm merely doing my part and that's all I can do. If everyone did their parts...
...you get exactly what we have now: a duopoly who has power and a bunch of sanctimonious assholes who whine about nobody giving them a shot at the big time when they haven't proven they can be effective at so much as a local level
 

Phoenixmgs

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Who's fighting?
Neat. A national abortion access bill worth a damn would cost significantly more political capital than "just a thought" and would've been just as easily State's Rights'd away as Roe

...you get exactly what we have now: a duopoly who has power and a bunch of sanctimonious assholes who whine about nobody giving them a shot at the big time when they haven't proven they can be effective at so much as a local level


They had 50 years... And they sure put in the effort to keep running on the abortion issue for those 50 years. It wouldn't have went to State's Rights if they made it actually constitutional. Roe v Wade was hilariously bad, I'm surprised it took the GOP 50 years to overturn it.

Why do you think the current politicians have proven they are effective at running anything? Maybe I'm naive but you're all insane (doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results).
 

TheMysteriousGX

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They had 50 years... And they sure put in the effort to keep running on the abortion issue for those 50 years. It wouldn't have went to State's Rights if they made it actually constitutional. Roe v Wade was hilariously bad, I'm surprised it took the GOP 50 years to overturn it.
There was zero point in the last 50 years that the democrats could have inserted abortion rights into the Constitution of the United States. Any baseline federal law could've easily been added into their current ruling, because a good chunk of the Supreme Court is made up of partisan hacks citing Witch Hunters instead of actual case law. The fact that it took 50 years of work and unprecedented partisan judicial hackery to get it overturned probably means it wasn't nearly as flimsy as you are desperate to pretend.
Why do you think the current politicians have proven they are effective at running anything? Maybe I'm naive but you're all insane (doing the same thing over and over again expecting different results).
While I have certain disagreements with how well my local, state, and federal government runs, it definitely functions. I'm just not willing to believe that it collapsing during the tail end of a stint of having the GOP in power is coincidental

If your candidates are so good, why can't they win local races? Why aren't they running school boards? Where's their state governments? Which policies of theirs are getting folded in to the big 2?
 

Phoenixmgs

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There was zero point in the last 50 years that the democrats could have inserted abortion rights into the Constitution of the United States. Any baseline federal law could've easily been added into their current ruling, because a good chunk of the Supreme Court is made up of partisan hacks citing Witch Hunters instead of actual case law. The fact that it took 50 years of work and unprecedented partisan judicial hackery to get it overturned probably means it wasn't nearly as flimsy as you are desperate to pretend.

While I have certain disagreements with how well my local, state, and federal government runs, it definitely functions. I'm just not willing to believe that it collapsing during the tail end of a stint of having the GOP in power is coincidental

If your candidates are so good, why can't they win local races? Why aren't they running school boards? Where's their state governments? Which policies of theirs are getting folded in to the big 2?
And the Supreme Court that originally ruled on Roe wasn't hacks? Just read the fucking thing, it never made sense, you don't need a law degree for that. If doctors have the right to perform any procedure (that's what Roe said), euthanasia would be protected by the same argument. There'd be no such thing as any banned procedures.

I'm sure there's literally no exaggeration at all there...

People are conditioned to vote red or blue. It's like asking why some other cola doesn't sell more than Coke and Pepsi.
 

meiam

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You keep voting for democrats and expecting them to actually implement progressive policy.
Because they do? Sure its not progressive heaven, but very few people in america would call themselves progressive, it would be a massive breach of trust for the democrat to apply a blanket progressive agenda that few people in the nation would support. Instead they slowly but continuously shift the nation toward progressive policy (which is pretty damn hard when GOP will vote against everything for no other reason than they can't take credit for it and can block almost any law with a ridiculously small portion of the national vote).

But plenty of things that would be called progressive were passed in the last few decades, like obamacare, legalizing gay marriage, heighten environmental regulation and so on. Good politician compromise for the greater good, democrat, by and large, do this within the limit of their power.
 
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Phoenixmgs

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Because they do? Sure its not progressive heaven, but very few people in america would call themselves progressive, it would be a massive breach of trust for the democrat to apply a blanket progressive agenda that few people in the nation would support. Instead they slowly but continuously shift the nation toward progressive policy (which is pretty damn hard when GOP will vote against everything for no other reason than they can't take credit for it and can block almost any law with a ridiculously small portion of the national vote).

But plenty of things that would be called progressive were passed in the last few decades, like obamacare, legalizing gay marriage, heighten environmental regulation and so on. Good politician compromise for the greater good, democrat, by and large, do this within the limit of their power.
The fact that we don't have public healthcare at this point is beyond ridiculous. I've said this several times here, but I still don't at all understand how there wasn't a massive unrest and protests during covid over the fact that 10s of millions of people lost their jobs and their health insurance during a pandemic. The democrats shift the nation progressively in ways that really don't matter. Gay marriage really doesn't do much but give but give gays the rather minor benefits of marriage, it's not like they weren't living together and doing all the stuff everyone else does. For me, there was so much of a battle over that because it was a distraction to keep people off the more important stuff and when passed, it doesn't upset the status quo at all. It also made people feel like they accomplished something more important than it actually was. Most of the progressive environmental stuff is pie-in-the-sky stuff that isn't going to work like switching to electric cars hardly helps with global warming nor can the grid handle electric cars if everyone had them.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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And the Supreme Court that originally ruled on Roe wasn't hacks? Just read the fucking thing, it never made sense, you don't need a law degree for that. If doctors have the right to perform any procedure (that's what Roe said), euthanasia would be protected by the same argument. There'd be no such thing as any banned procedures.
Oh yeah, that looks flimsy as fuck in the fantasy land that happened in. Least you're backing off the idea that the Dems could've altered the constitution on a whim at any point in the last 50 years
I'm sure there's literally no exaggeration at all there...
Economic downturn at the end of Bush 1's term lead to neo-liberal Clinton winning, the economy was on fire in '08 before Obama won, look out the fucking window to see what we're dealing with in the aftermath of Trump. So yeah, in my lifetime literally every time.
People are conditioned to vote red or blue. It's like asking why some other cola doesn't sell more than Coke and Pepsi.
Which is why I asked about local races, which are more resistant to said forces, and about relevant policy being absorbed by the national organ, ala the Tea Party and the MAGA cult

Prison slave labor abolition is on the ballot in like, 5 states this year. That's not a mainline democrat position ans is inherently antithetical to the GOP. That's a third party progressive action.

What's the dude's you vote for doing like that?
 

meiam

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The fact that we don't have public healthcare at this point is beyond ridiculous. I've said this several times here, but I still don't at all understand how there wasn't a massive unrest and protests during covid over the fact that 10s of millions of people lost their jobs and their health insurance during a pandemic. The democrats shift the nation progressively in ways that really don't matter. Gay marriage really doesn't do much but give but give gays the rather minor benefits of marriage, it's not like they weren't living together and doing all the stuff everyone else does. For me, there was so much of a battle over that because it was a distraction to keep people off the more important stuff and when passed, it doesn't upset the status quo at all. It also made people feel like they accomplished something more important than it actually was. Most of the progressive environmental stuff is pie-in-the-sky stuff that isn't going to work like switching to electric cars hardly helps with global warming nor can the grid handle electric cars if everyone had them.
It seems like your angry at the democrat for not seizing absolute power, or maybe you're angry at the GOP fro existing.

There wasn't massive unrest and protest about health insurance, that's the point, because a lot of people actually like the current system. Even if the democrat tried to implement that tomorrow it would never pass the GOP senate (and would probably be striken down by the GOP supreme court).

Democrat aren't the one who raise a fuse about gay marriage, I don't know why you blame them.

I don't know why you think electric car aren't going to help, and while true that the grid wouldn't be able to handle it, there's a lot of push to renewable energy. Not surprisingly, this is mainly pushed by democrat and opposed by GOP.

It seems like your just hoping the democrat would imprison every member of the GOP, declare themselves absolute king and just rule without any consideration for the public will.
 

Silvanus

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You keep voting for democrats and expecting them to actually implement progressive policy.
Well, I don't, because I'm British.

But I don't think any leftists here are expecting much in the way of genuine progressivism. They're simply expecting less regressivism than the only alternative.
 

Phoenixmgs

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It seems like your angry at the democrat for not seizing absolute power, or maybe you're angry at the GOP fro existing.

There wasn't massive unrest and protest about health insurance, that's the point, because a lot of people actually like the current system. Even if the democrat tried to implement that tomorrow it would never pass the GOP senate (and would probably be striken down by the GOP supreme court).

Democrat aren't the one who raise a fuse about gay marriage, I don't know why you blame them.

I don't know why you think electric car aren't going to help, and while true that the grid wouldn't be able to handle it, there's a lot of push to renewable energy. Not surprisingly, this is mainly pushed by democrat and opposed by GOP.

It seems like your just hoping the democrat would imprison every member of the GOP, declare themselves absolute king and just rule without any consideration for the public will.
I'm one of those people that doesn't get mad but more so disappointed, the Steph Curry smh gif is my favorite smh gif because it like perfectly encapsulates my emotions when I'm shaking my head at something. Who actually likes the current medical system? A democrat would try in a way that's the least effective way to try to then only blame republicans for blocking it and be able to use that as political capital for their next election. Democrats don't actually want to reform healthcare. How hard is it to give a very "rallying cry" type speech about healthcare literally pointing out how our system failed us during the pandemic and how asinine it is that sending people home in a pandemic to stay safe could easy lead to more death because people lost insurance and didn't want to go to the hospital until they are in an actual dire situation? Any democrat could've made a speech like that and had their sorta "Obama moment" and rode that to some higher office and still it didn't happen. The fact that wasn't even attempted says a lot. I'm not blaming them for gay marriage just telling you why they backed it because it didn't upset the status quo. There's tons of issues with electric cars like the mining of lithium (also literal kids mining for it), the power grid, the fact that it doesn't actually lower carbon emissions much. You can be focusing on other things with those resources that would do much more. Nuclear is currently the best option for energy and no one ever talks about it, solar and wind have massive problems.

Democrats already rule on the local level in many places without GOP interference and don't enact actual progressive policies even there. They don't actually want progressive policy. They basically function as a Scooby Doo villain blaming it on those meddling kids (where the GOP is a stand in) so they have an excuse for why they didn't do such and such.

Well, I don't, because I'm British.

But I don't think any leftists here are expecting much in the way of genuine progressivism. They're simply expecting less regressivism than the only alternative.
Democratic policy for me has gotten to the point that it's even more regressive than republican policy.