Biden still locks kids in cages

Gethsemani

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Is that actually what's going on?
As far as the official word goes yes and I am not about to go down the rabbit hole of tinfoil hats and assume everything said by a government official is a lie just because it is the gubmint.
 

Agema

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Is that actually what's going on?
There might definitely have been an kerfuffle putting them all up in 5* hotels.

If we take the basic assumption that immigrant children need to be temporarily put somewhere they can be looked after, a pre-existing immigration camp has the infrastructure to do so and thus makes sense to use. It might still look like a prison, but it's more important that they are treated well than their facility looks sweet.
 

Trunkage

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There might definitely have been an kerfuffle putting them all up in 5* hotels.
Someone did the math on it a while ago. It would have been so much cheaper to put all the kids up in hotels (still have guards etc). Because they're spending a few thousand dollars a day per child
 

Revnak

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There might definitely have been an kerfuffle putting them all up in 5* hotels.

If we take the basic assumption that immigrant children need to be temporarily put somewhere they can be looked after, a pre-existing immigration camp has the infrastructure to do so and thus makes sense to use. It might still look like a prison, but it's more important that they are treated well than their facility looks sweet.
Yet we absolutely can and have setup better facilities for refugees in the past rather than relying on glamorized concentration camps. Other counties have been able to implement better historically as well. Instead responsibility is being handed off to a facility and private contractor with a history of abusing children in this exact scenario that goes back years. We can split hairs about how it’s not actually “the same” as what occurred under Trump, but it remain absolutely unacceptable.
 

Agema

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Someone did the math on it a while ago. It would have been so much cheaper to put all the kids up in hotels (still have guards etc). Because they're spending a few thousand dollars a day per child
It might be cheaper, but they'd raise a PR shitstorm of epic proportions.

Apparently, nearly $800 per child per night, as opposed to under $300 for more reasonable accommodation in a less stupid location with their parents. People are suprisingly happy for the government to waste money as long it suits their idea of how things should be. An extra $500 per child per night, holding them as hostages and making their lives a misery as punishment for illegal immigrantion could be viewed as cheap.

Yet we absolutely can and have setup better facilities for refugees in the past rather than relying on glamorized concentration camps. Other counties have been able to implement better historically as well. Instead responsibility is being handed off to a facility and private contractor with a history of abusing children in this exact scenario that goes back years. We can split hairs about how it’s not actually “the same” as what occurred under Trump, but it remain absolutely unacceptable.
I don't disagree. But the administration's only been in a month and a half. They can't just change things by clicking their fingers, so let's not judge too early.
 

Revnak

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I don't disagree. But the administration's only been in a month and a half. They can't just change things by clicking their fingers, so let's not judge too early.
I’m pretty certain that both of Trump’s most infamous immigration policies, child separation and the travel ban, had been implemented by this point in his presidency. At the very least the refugee suspension and travel ban had been.
 

Trunkage

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It might be cheaper, but they'd raise a PR shitstorm of epic proportions.

Apparently, nearly $800 per child per night, as opposed to under $300 for more reasonable accommodation in a less stupid location with their parents. People are suprisingly happy for the government to waste money as long it suits their idea of how things should be. An extra $500 per child per night, holding them as hostages and making their lives a misery as punishment for illegal immigrantion could be viewed as cheap.
I believe misery is the desired outcome
 

dreng3

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I’m pretty certain that both of Trump’s most infamous immigration policies, child separation and the travel ban, had been implemented by this point in his presidency. At the very least the refugee suspension and travel ban had been.
And I'm pretty certain it takes more time to glue a vase back together than it does breaking it.
I think we should keep focus on the issue but also acknowledge that it won't be fixed within a month.
 

Gordon_4

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Someone did the math on it a while ago. It would have been so much cheaper to put all the kids up in hotels (still have guards etc). Because they're spending a few thousand dollars a day per child
Thats because all you’re paying for is space and some chump to stand outside the door swiping left and right on Tindr and Grindr all day. All other costs are covered by the hotel.

And a hotel won’t have purpose built facilities for medical examinations, interviews and recreation (that don’t have be shared with other guests paying out of their own pocket) for any detainees to use. So sure the hotel looks cheap, but only if you look at the end result of a breakdown and not what that breakdown contains.


As far as the official word goes yes and I am not about to go down the rabbit hole of tinfoil hats and assume everything said by a government official is a lie just because it is the gubmint.
No but a healthy dose of skepticism should be employed. The administration has changed but the people in charge of day to day operations of these facilities and the departmental heads of their agencies has very likely not. Cultural change in such organisations is glacial on a good day, and actively resisted on a bad one.

They should send in some observers from The Red Cross or Medicines Sans Frontiers to perform a third party inspection of the conditions.
 

Revnak

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And I'm pretty certain it takes more time to glue a vase back together than it does breaking it.
I think we should keep focus on the issue but also acknowledge that it won't be fixed within a month.
From Trump’s perspective immigration was also a broken vase he had to glue back together.
 

tstorm823

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Holding children in facilities is more humane than any available alternative. It was in the last administration and it is in this one too. People were so excited to blame Trump for "concentration camps" that they threw all sense out the window.
 

Seanchaidh

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As far as the official word goes yes and I am not about to go down the rabbit hole of tinfoil hats and assume everything said by a government official is a lie just because it is the gubmint.
Is that even precisely what they are saying?

In any case, Biden has already lied about what his first hundred days would be like:

But I will send to the desk immediately a bill that requires access to citizenship for 11 million undocumented folks, number one. Number two, the first hundred days of my administration, no one, no one will be deported at all. From that point on, the only deportations that will take place are commissions of felonies in the United States of America.
Lying is commonplace for the Biden administration.
 

Revnak

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In any case, Biden has already lied about what his first hundred days would be like:
To be fair, the reason this is false is due to a DHS contract completed during the end of the Trump admin with ICE’s union allowing the union to overrule changes to their policies. To be balanced, Biden could just fire them all like Reagan did with the air traffic controllers.
 
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Gethsemani

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He’s the one asking you a question, why the hell do you need evidence from him to answer?
Because Seanchaidh is basically "just asking questions". He is making an implied statement that nothing has changed but phrasing it as a question to put the burden of evidence on those that accept the official explanation, instead of delivering proof that nothing has changed.
 

Silvanus

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Because Seanchaidh is basically "just asking questions". He is making an implied statement that nothing has changed but phrasing it as a question to put the burden of evidence on those that accept the official explanation, instead of delivering proof that nothing has changed.
Why is proof needed that nothing has changed, but no proof is needed that things have changed?

Surely a continuation of the previous situation is the null hypothesis, so the burden of proof rests on those saying its different now.