Meowshi said:
Prayer is admitting that you can do nothing. That's the entire point.
It's not a way of saying, "God will do it, so I don't have to worry about it." It's just a way of accepting your limitations.
I suppose you're right on that. My point still stands that many use it as an excuse for inaction, which I think Justin Bieber is probably doing. He seems to be a posterboy for innocent conformity and bland apathy.
If you had just said, "Prayer is meaningless because God doesn't exist" we would not be having this discussion. Unfortunately, that is not what you said.
While that is what I strongly believe, some people claim I would be jumping to conclusions in saying that god doesn't exist. I disagree, but people will have their opinions.
Your initial argument was that people who prayed for others didn't actually care and were apathetic to the suffering of others. It was an unnecessary generalization. I also have a problem with people responding to well-intentioned prayers with rudeness, but I can accept the fact that civility need not exist on the internet. The only criticism I can understand someone giving Beiber is perhaps a mention towards the fact that the Japanese most likely don't worship the same god he does.
Right, and in that case it just seems inconsiderate if anything. Almost as if suggesting that their god should be consulted because the other ones don't exist, for some reason.
I agree with you, but this is in no way relevant to my point. I'm just saying that you can't claim that religion makes people apathetic and less likely to donate, simply because they believe in prayer. History does not support the claim and the two things are scarcely related.
The idea that they feel like they're already contributing
could drive people to do nothing further. I know many people who say they will pray for someone or something and do nothing about it. It's simply to seem empathetic.
I don't know. Why do sports teams pray before each game, even though the they know the other team is doing the same? I'm not arguing that prayer is logical.
Hah, yeah. Good point.
The argument is poor because it only concerns itself with the present, when the benevolence of God isn't limited to your time on earth.
Essentially, you have to believe that life is about choice. We are free to do whatever we want, but in turn must accept that others don't always want to do the right thing. A world without rapists and murderers would certainly be better, but it also would be a world without free will. The reason the world can be such a miserable place is because we aren't governed by a god who rushes down to poof away all of our problems like some sort of genie. It's like how parents have to learn not to coddle their children and let them make mistakes in order to become better people. The religious argument is that your time on earth is not about having a perfect life without sorrow and misery, but rather about making the right choices and being a good person.
So, is having bad things happen to you valuable experience for eternal paradise? If there was an afterlife, there would be absolutely NO point to actual life.
The reward supposedly comes after that.
Unless you're gay, unbaptized, uncircumcised, or worship any other god. Or even worship the
same God in a different way. If there is a heaven, it's gotta be damn near empty.
