Bill Gates is Against the Global Poor Receiving Affordable Vaccines

Agema

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What i would like though is public funded research remaining in public hands. And yes, i am aware that Biontech also received at least some public money from which no private profit should be generated.
I have a substantial amount of admiration for researchers who could in theory make a fortune, but in practice just publish data and leave it to others to do something with.

Of course, the entrepreneural master-race just consider them a bunch of idiots as they take that knowledge and shovel dollars into their own pockets whilst refusing to pay the taxes that support such research.
 

Seanchaidh

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I'm not against Bill Gates' argument at all. Without any IP protection, it's the wild west for any two-bit chemicals company to make drugs and vaccines. You can absolutely guarantee there's no shortage of ethically challenged businessmen who'd sell junk: there will be substantial human cost, and in terms of medical ethics that is problematic.

We also know that if chemicals companies can make stuff cheap, they'll simply undercut Pfizer et al. We all know perfectly well that healthcare providers in many places, including our own countries, that could easily afford the expensive Western prices will all buy cheap knock-offs instead, because they still have the same motivations of profit or efficiency. And unless we want a completely different system for the discovery and production of drugs and vaccines (I'm not against this, it's just it's a whole other conversation), I'm not sure it's the right thing to let lazy companies with no R&D profit at the expense of companies who shoulder the R&D burden.

Thus I think some form of regulated licensing system where approved manufacturers can make the product for other countries is a good way forward in the interim. Pfizer et al gets a cut via the licence, they gets some say on quality control, and many more people have access to the drug/vaccine at reasonable cost.
I think you're conflating regulation as a whole with patent enforcement in particular in a way that isn't terribly productive. It is reasonable to suppose that any country in which it is possible for the enforcement of US patents to determine business conduct also has civil institutions capable of preventing garbage from being sold as medicine. That's not to say that they necessarily will, but it is a question quite independent from patent enforcement.
 

Cheetodust

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Bill Gates has more wealth than his descendents could spend across dozens of generations. His absurd amount of wealth being halfed, quartered or more would have no tangible effect on his daily life. He would still earn wealth faster than he could spend it just by virtue of already owning so much wealth.

Capitalism is basically just gratuitously dunking on us now and almost everyone is fine with that even though it's literally making us die from a plague. Cool.
 

Silvanus

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It is reasonable to suppose that any country in which it is possible for the enforcement of US patents to determine business conduct also has civil institutions capable of preventing garbage from being sold as medicine.
Counterpoint: the United States, which has the former but not the latter.
 

Agema

You have no authority here, Jackie Weaver
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I think you're conflating regulation as a whole with patent enforcement in particular in a way that isn't terribly productive. It is reasonable to suppose that any country in which it is possible for the enforcement of US patents to determine business conduct also has civil institutions capable of preventing garbage from being sold as medicine. That's not to say that they necessarily will, but it is a question quite independent from patent enforcement.
I quite agree, all countries have the theoretical ability to regulate production to achieve suitable standards.

I can't help but point out that on a practical level, even developed Western countries can have trouble effectively regulating businesses, never mind developing world countries with a fraction of the administrative capability and much higher susceptibility to corruption.
 

Samtemdo8

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https://www.salon.com/2021/04/26/bi...las-with-global-poor-to-end-pandemic_partner/



So, Bill Gates is still stuck in the 1990s and wants IP to rule over the rights of people and human beings. Even though lots of R&D is done in governments, and public research colleges, or provided by public grants; He wants IP protection to remain for drugs, and vaccines like Pfizer, and Moderna.



This is the so-called most ethical billionaire. A so-called cosmopolitan which by the way is just a code way for the rich to skirt taxes around the world. Explain to me what is cosmopolitan about wanting the poor to die. I would say a socialist who is against all the wars, is dodgy around immigration, and is an isolationist but will export the vaccines is more cosmopolitan than this phony. (Pre 2016 Bernie, post-2016 Bernie is more internationalist)



Is he fucking hearing himself; I want either the working poor allot of whom live on less than 5 dollars a day to pay hundreds for a life-saving drug, or I want them dying in the streets? This is the deluded madness of the rich and lets me remind you he is considered a ‘good’ billionaire. There are billionaires like Bezos, Koch, Mercers, etc. that are worse. Also, even if you were just a selfish fuck who loves good PR, and does good marketing if India or South Africa gets an RNA vaccine-resistant variant of Covid, we are all screwed, and your gold, bunkers, rockets, and money won’t save you when you don’t have anyone to sell shit to.

View attachment 3678

The answer is yes.
What did George Lucas ever did wrong? Or Oprah?
 

Cheetodust

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What did George Lucas ever did wrong? Or Oprah?
I mean I could make the snarky list but I'll just stick with exploitation. Unless you believe that Oprah works thousands of times harder than the people who work on her show? An infinite amount when you factor in all the unpaid interns (slaves) who work in TV. Yes, Oprah's brand has earned her billions. But there are countless people who run themselves into the ground producing her show for a fraction of what she takes home.

If earnings are to be based on work or productivity then literally no single person can accomplish the amount of work needed to produce billions of dollars. There isn't a single justified billionaire on the planet because if your product is turning over those kinds of profits and you're taking home the bulk of it then you are exploiting people.

Edit: and the previously referenced just hoarding of generations/small nations worth of wealth that you literally cannot ever use all to get on some scoreboard somewhere while people literally die from not having enough of that thing which you have more than you can ever possibly use.
 

Seanchaidh

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Counterpoint: the United States, which has the former but not the latter.
oh, they are quite capable. they just choose not to sometimes.

I quite agree, all countries have the theoretical ability to regulate production to achieve suitable standards.

I can't help but point out that on a practical level, even developed Western countries can have trouble effectively regulating businesses, never mind developing world countries with a fraction of the administrative capability and much higher susceptibility to corruption.
Either way, I don't see how threatening other countries with retaliation for using publicly available data to produce vaccine helps them in this regard.
 

Gergar12

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Of course, the progressives are the only ones talking about it.

Edti:38 million vaccines delivered out of a goal of 2 billion. Bill Gates and Covax has been a disappointing failure. Multiple vaccine factories around the world operating below capacity.
 
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Revnak

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how much would they have gotten if it was split evenly?
Yeah but clearly the original core team deserves over a hundred times more because Minecraft was almost exclusively their work and almost none of that valuation came from the work of people hired after the initial release because we all know Minecraft is super popular because of its original survival mode and exclusively on PC, not because of later additions, creative mode, or the fact you can play it on every electronic in your home.

Edit: Also trivial? The community managers and update/balance teams of a game that got virtually all of its advertising in the form of let’s players.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Not many, but every employee (not just the developers) did get a $300,000 bonus.
You're right, every employee got one hundredth of one percent of the sale price while notch pocketed somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 billion dollars.

Anybody who can be fine with that split is a bad person, in my opinion. 30 ish people get a really nice car or a house, one guy gets a really nice car every day for like, 10 years.
 

Worgen

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Whatever, just wash your hands.

Cheetodust

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You're right, every employee got one hundredth of one percent of the sale price while notch pocketed somewhere between 1.5 and 2.5 billion dollars.

Anybody who can be fine with that split is a bad person, in my opinion. 30 ish people get a really nice car or a house, one guy gets a really nice car every day for like, 10 years.
Now we can't be sure that wasn't an even split. Who are we to say that notch didn't do in one hour of labour what it took the other devs over 6000 to accomplish? Maybe he did work that hard.
 

tstorm823

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Now we can't be sure that wasn't an even split. Who are we to say that notch didn't do in one hour of labour what it took the other devs over 6000 to accomplish? Maybe he did work that hard.
This example is stupid. Of the 5 years from conception to being bought bought Microsoft, Notch did like the first year alone. If you assume everyone accomplishes the same amount in an hour, it's still not going to be remotely close to an even split at the end.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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This example is stupid. Of the 5 years from conception to being bought bought Microsoft, Notch did like the first year alone. If you assume everyone accomplishes the same amount in an hour, it's still not going to be remotely close to an even split at the end.
Sure, but the dev of Infiniminer didn't get paid.
I never said notch didn't deserve more than the guy who sorts the mail, but the scale is "maybe one house" vs "multiple of the best houses in every country"
 
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Cheetodust

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This example is stupid. Of the 5 years from conception to being bought bought Microsoft, Notch did like the first year alone. If you assume everyone accomplishes the same amount in an hour, it's still not going to be remotely close to an even split at the end.
A roughly 99:1 split between Notch and every single other employee? Sure. Whatever. Go ahead and believe that. No skin off my ass
 

Eacaraxe

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I can't help but point out that on a practical level, even developed Western countries can have trouble effectively regulating businesses, never mind developing world countries with a fraction of the administrative capability and much higher susceptibility to corruption.
I'd argue the inverse, given the sad reality of regulatory capture and campaign finance at least in the US. A well-regulated bureaucracy with adequate oversight and accountability, sure, but the circumstances in the US are such we have a deregulated bureaucracy with practically zero oversight nor accountability.

Consider our current circumstances, even before the debate over ending COVID vaccine exclusivity. Pfizer is beyond doubt one of the least reputable pharmaceutical companies on the planet, with a track record that rivals pharmaceutical companies that employed concentration camp labor and manufactured the very chemicals that were used in the Holocaust which were somehow allowed to stay in business following WWII's end. It knowingly manufactured and sold defective artificial heart valves for decades, lied about it and covered it up -- and that's just one example out of dozens. Pfizer ideally shouldn't exist at all because it should have been disincorporated decades ago, let alone be in a position to buy partial ownership in BioNTech, control US distribution of its vaccine, or be eligible for Operation Warp Speed funding to be in a position to refuse it.

And, lest we all forget underneath COVID news, the US is still in the grip of an opioid crisis that exists of, by, and for the pharmaceutical industry.

For all intents and purposes, we do have a developing world's administrative capability and susceptibility to corruption. Hell, I'd argue the US has less administrative capability and higher susceptibility to corruption than a developing world country. It's just that in the case of the US, it's bigger, more byzantine, more difficult to navigate and investigate, and with the full backing of the politico-media complex to manufacture consent for its current state.