BioShock Creator "Sad" Over ME3's Ending Scandal

[Knight Templar]

I'm one of the people who hated the ending but will not demand that Bioware create another one.
That said I do not think there is anything wrong with saying you want them to create another ending. Most people are simply doing it wrong, acting as if they have more claim on Mass Effect than Bioware does, which is silly. However games often have DLC come in and change things, patches to correct things that are badly made. This isn't really an ending and what is doesn't make sense, thats the worst part. I think everybody wants a new ending, some of us just don't think we have the right to demand it.
If people are doing it in a less ridiculous fashion then I don't think saying "I want you to create another ending" is a bad thing.

You know what pisses me off, people not understanding why people hate the ending.

Spoiler: ending spoilers

No, it's not because it is sad, although the deads of everybody we knew in the games isn't a point in favor of the ending.

 

[Hainted]

http://www.gamefront.com/mass-effect-3-ending-hatred-5-reasons-the-fans-are-right/
If you're still unclear why we're unhappy,read this

 

[AbstractStream]

I'm trying to get over this whole ME3 mess, but more topics like these keep popping up and reeling me back in D:
I'm not "for" Bioware changing the ending. As said before, the damage is done. Expanding on it is something I'd be interested in though.
You can be sad all you want, Ken. It won't change how we feel about what's been done.

The majority of people aren't mad about the "sad" or "downer" nature of the endings, god damnit. People are mad that they spent 100+ hours on a series, only for every single choice they made to be thrown out the window and not make a single damn difference in the end.

This, of course, is after we were told that our choices actually would matter.

Exactly.

This is just the point that everyone on the other side of the argument is missing. We were not angry because the story didn't end the way we wanted it to, we're angry because everything we did amounted to shit. Frankly I see this as more of a gameplay/structure issue than a problem with the script itself.

We want 2 things:

1) Closure. This is NOT the same as a happy ending. Closure simply means we want a fair ending which ties up the loose ends and doesn't create more plot holes. Even when terrible events happen you can still find closure afterwards.

2) Choice. We wanted an ending based on OUR decisions, you know, the ones we spent three whole games making. Choices that were given more consideration and investment than some of our own real-life, everyday choices! Instead we all got the same ending. Everyone got the same ending. Paragon Shepards and Renegade Shepards got the same ending. I got the same ending as you and you and you.

The same ending.

I'd like to hug you both.
Exactly and exactly.

 

[JoesshittyOs]

I don't think video games are art.

Your move, Ken.

How do you define art than?

 

[Undead Dragon King]

The philosophical questions that have been raised by this controversy are many.

To name a few that pop up for me:

What is more important: the artist or the consumers of that artwork?

What is more important: the artist's sense of "vision" or the "general expectations" of the fanbase?

What is more important: the journey or the destination?

What is more important: realistic or stylistic climaxes and resolutions in games?

This is, indeed, a critical moment in gaming history. How BioWare ultimately resolves this will set a precedent, for good or ill, which may well change the way that gaming developers interact with their fanbase.

Personally, I think that BioWare will eventually cave in some way to their fans' demands. They've done so already. A romanceable Tali and Garrus in ME2 and the addition of general homosexuality in ME3 were all by what they considered "popular demand". Here we are, half a month after the game's release, and still the furor persists. I think that if even to just to placate fans so that they may buy BioWare games again, they'll change the ending with DLC.

As for me, I am currently replaying Mass Effect 3 with my ME3-complete import up until the climax. Then I'll just switch over to reading my 70-page fanfiction of the ending where I can get that happy ending that I wanted. It the perfect scenario for me: an almost-perfect game for 30+ hours and then I get the ending that REALLY reflects my choices. Yes, you can call me simplistic. I enjoy my bread and circuses with a series that I invested 200 dollars and 100 hours. Auteurs of the ending can go fuck themselves if they think my solution to be too plebian.

 

[Metalrocks]

i play games to have fun. and if it looks nice, fine by me, but the ending is still s*** that everything i have done, got ignored. just like angry joe said in his video:

http://angryjoeshow.com/2012/03/top-10-reasons-we-hate-mass-effect-3s-ending/

we have been promised different ending and that everything we have done will have an affect at the end. did we get that??? NO!

 

[AD-Stu]

Of course, it would also be good to know whether the ending of Mass Effect 3 was actually Bioware's idea or something EA mandated, because it's possible that Levine is completely mistaken about it being the decision of an "artist".

While it's certainly possible, I find it hard to imagine a universe where this was the kind of ending EA would push on a developer.

More to the point, the ending was so craptastic and so likely to cause bad press that I think, if anything, EA would actually have delayed the release date in order to "fix" it if they had the power to.

No, I really think the ending is all Bioware on this one.

Actually, an interesting thought for the "games are art" crowd: pretty much all movies these days (ones funded by studios, at any rate) are run past focus groups before they're actually released and changes are often made if the audience reacts negatively. Dodgeball is probably one of the most famous examples of a film being changed by that process.

A game with an ending like ME3's clearly wasn't subjected to a process like that - or if it was, the developers were obviously allowed to ignore the feedback. Does that make games more of a pure artform, since they're not subjected to that same level of corporate interference?

 

[sifffffff]

Oh totes Ken. Totes sad. I'm definitely not sad that my favorite game series of the past decade had a plot-hole ridden logic devoid brain seizure with 10 minutes left in the series.

The only thing you're worried about is if Bioware changes the ending you're no longer going to be able to half-ass a project or do other stuff that fuck the consumer over.

It's about time the consumers took some power back.

Not even going to get into the bullshit argument that is comparing a videogame to a painting, novel or movie. Games can be art sure but they're interactive art. They aren't like novels, paintings or movies and they cost a hell of a lot more to appreciate.

This fucking industry... I'd understand the defense of the ending by "game journalists" and industry developers if it wasn't so plainly shitty. Where are the good guys?

EDIT: Oh wait I forgot. This was out of the mouth of Ken "Don't talk about my character's tits even though I designed her to be wearing a corset that proudly displays her tits" Levine. Nevermind.

 

[RagTagBand]

Whilst I was originally fine with the ending, the more I thought about it the less I am.

And it's not because it's bleak, I like that it's bleak; It's because of unmissable, factual errors and contradictions. I don't want them to write an ending where everything is happy and fine, I just want an ending that makes sense.

Thats all, I want an ending which just makes consistent sense. The rest of the trilogy has (mostly) managed to do this, why shouldn't the final 10 minutes?

This isn't about a different ending, per say, The plot can remain the same, just correct the factual errors...like you did with that atrocious book that was released full of them. Nobody accused anybody of "interfering with art" with the book deal and, honestly, this is largely the same.

 

[Ryujikun]

I have originally refused to purchase ME3 for the Collector's exclusive day 1 dlc. Now hearing about the ordeal of the ordeal of the ending without spoiling it for myself, I can assume that the other endings some people want would be coming as DLC. As I understand it only wraps it up for Shepard even though this was a Party-centric story.

If money wasn't tight before the Information about the Day 1 DLC I would have probably pre-ordered the collector's edition since I am sucker for those. Now I can't find myself enjoying this until the Game of the Year Edition or Ultimate pack is out. Same thing with Street Fighter x Tekken.

Edit: I forgot to respond to the article. Respecting and agreeing with the ending isn't the same thing. This is Bioware's game and they this is how they decided to end the game. Doesn't mean we have to like it. Just like his example is that an Author can end a book anyway they want does not mean we have to like it. If a book ended without any resolution would people be happy with that?

 

[Silenttalker22]

Hasn't the watershed passed? FO3 retconned it's terrible ending.

Well anyway, I actually don't really like the idea either. I mean, I have no problem with yelling at the endings. Just not comfortable with the idea of developers altering stories after the fact.

Exactly. I think people are overlooking the fact that their disappointment is rooted in their investment in it. In that, Ken is absolutely right. It won't feel like it's part of the initial product and won't feel satisfying unless you're easily distracted by shiny objects. It's not the first grand game with an ending SOME (I stressSOME) people weren't satisfied with. Get over it.

The emotions that run so high on that very first playthrough has been spent, and no tacked on dlc ending can bring it back.

So many people see it. I don't know why others can't.

 

[zinho73]

Man, if Bioware decides to change it, fine. If they do not, fine. People are not pointing a gun at the head of the developers, they are just clearly stating that:
- they were lied to (look for Bioware declarations on the net);
- the ending is bad.

Now, the problem is that people found it so bad that they lost the faith on the developer, so changing the ending is much more a business decision than an artistic one.

Also - there are tons of ways to give better closure to the series without changing a thing: with DLC, with an open and direct explanation about why the developer chose this ending and their motivations, with just some pointers about the glaring plot holes.

The problem is that Bioware is just stalling and not addressing the situation at all, so the situation is obviously getting out of control.

On the first day they should have said something along those lines:
1. Sorry, this is our vision and we want the end this way. Also sorry for our misleading interviews.
or
2. Yes, we had problems with the ending. We might add to it in the future or, at least, clear things up in a few weeks.

Problem solved. Yeah, people would still rage a bit and demand this and that, but his would not be a pending issue anymore.

On the subject of art. There's art for the sake of art and there's commissioned and commercial art, the last one is something that becomes a commodity and is subject of consumer scrutiny. The final decisions is in the hands of Bioware, but commercial art chances every time after consumer feedback. Movies are reedited after been pre-screened to selected audiences, musics are rewritten to better fit an audience, etc.

And the fundamental thing here is this: people are not asking Bioware to repaint a picture. They are pissed because they bought a DaVinci and received
an Andy Warhol poster. People are wondering what happened with the promised DaVinci. Will it still be painted? Do I have to keep my Andy Warhol poster? Is Bioware going to explain why the last minute change?

And yes, of course this all mostly subjective (but not all, Bioware told that that the endings would not be A, B and C options), and that's why Bioware must act fast, to kill all speculation. This "lots of speculation for everyone" is killing them and putting them in a lose-lose situation.

 

[Ticonderoga117]

This just in! Everything considered art cannot be criticized or changed, ever!
Does it have to make sense? No, it's art!
Does it have to be well executed? No, it's art!
Does it have to remain consistent with the rest of the series? No, it's art!
[/sarcasm]

So pretty much because it's "art" means no one can criticize or call the BS the creators did? So by this token, Indian Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull should be loved and adored because "that's what they wanted to do"? Should the Star Wars prequels get a free pass on continuity checks because that's what George Lucas intended, or heaven forbid the edits of the first three? Should Kane and Lynch 2 not be thrown under the bus because "that's what they intended"?

I mean hell, it's bad enough if something just fails horribly from start to end. But ME3 did thing decently well, then it had a heart attack 2 feet from the ribbon and crashed it's way across the line.

 

[Caffiene]

Video games are art... As part of being art, video games are also free to be disappointing and annoying art that hardly anyone likes or believes has much value. This is the case with ME3. "Art" does not mean "popular, well recieved art".

Bioware shouldnt have to change the ending. But I dont think there are many people claiming that they should... People are just saying that they want the ending changed and that they feel the product did not live up to the promises made. These things do not have anything to do with the game's status as art. We see "high art" in galleries get protested and people wanting it to be removed or even banned; we even see high art pieces get vandalised by angry people from the audience. Why would ME3 get special treatment and immunity from these things?

Its not a question of what Bioware has to do... Its a question of what reaction does Bioware want from their art? So far, it seems unlikely that the actual reaction matches what Bioware wants the reaction to be, and people are giving strong suggestions as to how to possibly change that reaction. People change their art all the time because theyre not happy with it - and "it doesnt get the reaction I want" is a perfectly valid reason to not be happy with your art, even if you find the arkwork personally pleasing.

 

[StarCecil]

Something about this infuriates me to no end. I don't even like Mass Effect and this pisses me off. Video games aren't made to be "art"; they're made to make money. They are a product and the developers are developing them for the almighty dollar. That means they are open to the criticism and whims of the market and the market is demanding that an unsatisfactory product be altered to meet the promises of its creators.

And the J.K. Rowling reference is ridiculous and pretentious. I'm a writer and I don't write books for money; I write them for my own enjoyment and the enjoyment of others. I get paid a relative pittance by the publisher who themselves takes on all the possible risk and reward offered by the market. J.K. Rowling was successful, and that success encourages her publisher to shell out more cash and better deals, but she isn't doing it for the money.

BioWare is a developer owned by their publisher - they are essentially the same organization. EA, as any good publisher, cares about the money first and foremost and that's reflected in just about every EA game to come out in the past decade. BioWare opened themselves to every criticism and demand the market makes of them the instant they chose EA's money over their creative freedom.

 

[m72_ar]

I've never played any mass effect games, but reading they were intending to make an ending for EVERY possible outcome, for every choice you made, it sounds completely impossible. Not with EA breathing down their necks at least, so I'm not mad at them at all for how the games ended, a big budget mainstream game having so many endings can't be done in a short time. It was different in the old era where games didn't take much, like the Chrono Trigger ps1 port with extra unlocks and endings. Or even the ps2 Disgaea games, they had different endings, not sure about the other platforms like psp or ps3. They weren't huge games with so many environments, characters, all in 3D to render, etc. Whining at Bioware is just so childish or disrespectful if you think about the constraints they were under, I know, you don't enjoy the ending but sometimes things just have bad endings. I won't defend them for lying about it but you know what I mean, it was too much to ask from them in such a short time.

Funny thing is, Bioware done it before.

Did you play Dragon Age: Origins? All they need to do is do the same thing, put text detailing the effect of your decision over a screenshot and probably have the VA read the lines. I would argue that implementing this is so cheap I don't see why they don't do it

And this is not new innovation, all of Fallout Games except 3 and Tactics use it, Alpha Protocol, Baldur's Gate 2 TOB, NWN 2, and even frickin Dungeon Siege 3 use it. This is why I replay New Vegas and Alpha Protocol over and over again, because I know that my decision will affect the world. Probably not in-game but it will be acknowledged in the ending.

Will people still complain about it? Definitely, but it will satisfy a lot of people because at least all of our decisions means something and the effect it had on the galaxy is acknowledged

And as someone who never even play ME series, can you even feel what we feel? They promised that all of our decision from ME1 till ME3 will greatly affect the ending and all the endings are wildly different depending on your decisions. And this is Bioware, Dragon Age:Origins shows that that they can write proper endings that covers every possible outcome.

what we got is this shitty half-assed ending where all of your hard decision means absolutely nothing and does not affect the ending at all. And you still wonder why everyone is pissed?

TL;DR : Bioware can write endings that covers every possible outcome, See the endings of Dragon Age Origins and Dragon Age Awakening. Not the most elegant/best way to do it but it's functional

 

[Quesa]

I respect the right of the creator to do whatever it wants, I'm just not going to waste my time or money on them if their artistic vision is being dictated to them by suits who want to latch an IV into my wallet.

Funny thing is, Bioware done it before.

Did you play Dragon Age: Origins? All they need to do is do the same thing, put text detailing the effect of your decision over a screenshot and probably have the VA read the lines. I would argue that implementing this is so cheap I don't see why they don't do it.

You know what? DA:O was pretty damned bittersweet, too, and as I recall was generally praised for the intelligent way they did it; the only way to do it without loss of life was by making a moral choice I would have NEVER IN A BAZILLION YEARS HAVE MADE in real life.

The problem with ME3's ending is the blatant, vanilla "This is all your $180 has bought you, check back in May when we drop what we really had in mind. Brought to you buy the suits who thought this would help you stay focused on ME3 multiplayer and DLC packages until Mass Effect 2013 drops in October."

 

[Atmos Duality]

Well, this is what happens when you rush the ending to a game done by "Design by committee" in which the "committee" includes the fans. Or was all that data-mining and requested market input prior to the release of ME3 all an elaborate prank?

So yes, this is a watershed moment because of the scale of publicity since it's actually not the first time I've seen such backlash over the game's ending.

Fallout 3's original ending basically ended the game right there, and on a level of royal bullshit. None of the choices you made really mattered but the very last one, wherein you're either trussed up as a noble tragic "hero", or a selfish evil prick.
Everything else was an incidental "yes/no" slide.
What made matters worse, was the lack of genuine "closure"; the ending has numerous plot holes.

And a number of people complained; enough that Bethesda offered a "fixed" ending with one of their DLC packages. So marked the first instance where you had to pay the developers to "fix" the plot.

 

[zinho73]

Nobody accused anybody of "interfering with art" with the book deal and, honestly, this is largely the same.

Exactly. They are revising and changing some parts of the book. And I would say that a book is a much more monolithic thing than interactive media, which is characterized by change (specially in the DLC era).