BioShock, Fallout Designers Say Console Gamers "Lack Patience"

[The Bandit]

If I don't have to put up with the retarded bullshit "hardcore" PC gamers deal with, like enough controls to fill the entire keyboard, or UI that's specifically designed to be as unintuitive as possible, then fine. Call me a retard and make retard games. I honestly don't care.

 

[Weaver]

I think there's truth in this.
I've never seen a console gamer get very far with nethack.

 

[Luke Cartner]

Speaking as a pc/console gaming hibred I would have to say that they have this back ward.
Console gamers in a way have more patience. In pc games with text based instructions I simplyskip the instructions assuming I'll figure it out. One of the things I hated about oblivion was trawling through that intro sequence just to learn the mechanic.
Simply put I suspect console gamers may be willing to put up with spoon feeding tutorial sequences while pc gamers may not (an example of this is the training sequence for the original splinter cell.. I didn't even get through that before I returned it it to eb games due to the high level of boredom it caused).

 

[crimsonshrouds]

I think they're right; generally, I think the PC gaming crowd is more "hardcore" (yes, we all hate the hardcore/casual thing and no, none of us know what to replace the words with) then the console players.

So the fact i don't feel the need to get a computer with the power to play games makes me a less of a hardcore gamer?

Wow the escapist elitism is really starting to make me want to leave this site's forums but its sad that other forums are worse than this.

Playing games on a console most of my life from the lack of money for pc's makes me less of a gamer than the people who were lucky enough to have grown up in a family with enough wealth to spend on them.

 

[Miumaru]

That honeslty hurt. I mean...I kinda cant really argue against it though, (since the simplicity of consoles is something I promote as a pro against PC) but ouch.
But now I worry...is this what ruined Oblivion? Ok, it was still great, but not as much as Morrowind.
I dont know how to feel ultimatly. Either I should remain offended...or become a PC player.

I have contemplating to do.

 

[XzarTheMad]

My only real thought on this is that, from a purely PC-gamer perspective, you have a lot less options for consoles, control-wise.

One of the worst games I ever played was a direct port of some fantasy RPG type thing (I forget the name of the game) which was obviously a direct port from the console. To me, having a keyboard with, what, 50 buttons, means I have a pretty large array of commands I can easily access. When I found out I could (or rather, had to) limit myself to the E button being "case sensitive" and "detecting" what I wanted to do with a certain object, I thought: "But why? When I have an entire keyboard, four mouse buttons and the entire alphabet at my command, why can't I choose my own layout?

To me, console games always seem dumbed down, and I dislike that feeling, because it feels like these games have been stripped of anything unnecessary to make sure it would control just somewhat properly. It's sad, because I don't think console gamers are necessarily any stupider than other gamers, they are simply portrayed that way because of their limited control scheme and general clunky UI in-game.

Some games are best played on a console. Fighting games like Tekken, most sports games (except racing), and generic hack'n'slash like Devil May Cry (I paid $10 for a port for the PC to try it, and it was $10 too much). But for RPGs like Oblivion or Morrowind, the control scheme simply isn't big enough on a controler to do the game justice. I don't think it's got anything to do with a learning curve (except that console gamers may be slightly more casual gamers, but that's not the same as saying they can't or won't pay attention to text or tutorials) or lacking patience at all, simply the inherent limitations of the console controlers.

Suffice to say, gaming is, for me, a PC thing.

 

[NaramSuen]

I am a console gamer; have been since I got my Atari 2600 as a wee lad. I have never really owned a decent computer, all my computers have been hand-me-downs from friends or family, so I never really developed the habit of playing games on my PC. That being said I don't really care either way about people's preferred method of playing games. I personally prefer using a controller instead of a keyboard and mouse, but that is just me.

What I don't like is the assumption that a game must be "dumbed down" to appeal to a larger audience, whether that audience is console or PC. I think this is lazy game developing. Half-Life 2, Bioshock, and Fallout 3 all managed to successfully integrate you into their respective gaming worlds without requiring you to ingest a manual as thick as a brick. However, Bioshock could of used with something that resembled an inventory screen; how am I susposed to remember how many auto-hack tools I have?

Someone mentioned in a pervious post that much of my fellow console owners are kids who only want to kill each other in death-matches, well that is fine. Just because the highest grossing Hollywood movies are big dumb popcorn movies does not stop filmmakers from making meaningful films, and sometimes you end up with good films loved by critics and audiences. You can't dumb stuff down and then turn around and blame it on the fact that your audience is dumb.

 

[XzarTheMad]

I must reply to crimsonshrouds's post above this:

Notice how the guy said "generally"? Neither he nor most others around here honestly believes that console gamers CANNOT be hardcore. You can, but even you must admit, it's less common that a hardcore PC gamer. Also, PC gaming has nothing to do with wealth. I grew up with little money, and I had a PC since I was 13 (I'm 21 now). I never had any consoles, though. Funny thing is, consoles cost money, too. It's all about how you prioritize.

 

[12th_milkshake]

Well i think they are missing the point of the numbers involved, PC gamers - yeah i'm one of these, I grew up with full throttle/The Dig/beneath a steel sky etc etc etc.

Now to gain your average gamer pc is a lot of money especially back in the day. My first PC didn't have enough HD space to install doom and another world at the same time.


Consoles are more assessable require none or little set up. So you tend to get more casual users. But this isn't to say console gamers who are interested in games are stupid - anything but. If the game is truly good you'll tend to see tourneys pop up all over. Look at Smash Bros, Tekken, SF, hell time trails on metriod. They will travel the country for this all the time bitching about lag on line and how PCs are too easy hacked or rage quitters pulling the plugs at .9% health, You find a hell of a lot better written and devout guides on GameFAQs for console games not PC.

It's just the fact it has to truely accessible for the other type of gamer that will pick up the remote and doesn't care enough to get it unless you use your intro wisely.

This is the point of a console it's a stripped down PC. It's geared to be fool proof you can't expect fools not to use it. But the worlds of PC and console are slow merging again as consoles become online and more complex issues rise. The 360 is a Pc is sheep's clothing, next gen will see a crossbreed that will give a truer media experience. This coupled with the death of TV for on demand. We might need a new name for whats to come.

 

[Woodsey]

I think they're right; generally, I think the PC gaming crowd is more "hardcore" (yes, we all hate the hardcore/casual thing and no, none of us know what to replace the words with) then the console players.

So the fact i don't feel the need to get a computer with the power to play games makes me a less of a hardcore gamer?

Wow the escapist elitism is really starting to make me want to leave this site's forums but its sad that other forums are worse than this.

Playing games on a console most of my life from the lack of money for pc's makes me less of a gamer than the people who were lucky enough to have grown up in a family with enough wealth to spend on them.

Read the actual words that I used and stop having a ***** fit.

 

[Danallighieri]

Yeah I can understand the lack of patience thing, mind you I think it's always pretty fun to be thrown in the deep end and work out everything for yourself

 

[Blizzarded Soul]

Most of my friends have 360's and play nothing but MW2 and football games. I also have a 360 but I love Oblivion and Fallout 3. I find games like these far more exciting because I just never know what I might find while wandering through Cyrodiil/ The Wasteland. Whereas MW2 is just scripted explosion, shooting bad guys, more scripted explosions etc.

 

[Sebenko]

I don't know what possessed the developers to think that the players all have severe short term memory but i've never seen anything similar on a PC game.

It only seems to feature in ports- Red Faction: Guerilla, FUEL etc.
It's even more annoying there, since PC gamers tend to use the same controls, while re-mapping isn't usually available on consoles (well, it wasn't when I was a wee console gamer. I don't know if it's changed), so if they make odd decisions, it needs to be pointed out (Circle to open menus? I remember Doom on PSone actually allowed remapping, and the default fire button was TRIANGLE, of all buttons).

 

[SL33TBL1ND]

They're right. I'm not trying to imply that console gamers are all ADHD-riddled adrenaline junkies but, at least in my experience, they tend to have far less patience for spending time getting to grips with fiddly or complicated game mechanics. Honestly, I personally prefer it when my games have a certain level of complexity (which is part of the reason I've pretty much exclusively a PC gamer), but that's just my personal preference.

True dat, my friend.

 

[Ninjamedic]

As a console gamer I can agree with this but I'm disappointed at the amount of PC elitists who used this to attack consoles.
Just keep releasing your games to the PC standard on consoles and we won't have a problem.

 

[Naheal]

Guys, I think it's very important at this juncture to remember that the console lovers in this thread very much do NOT represent the typical console consumer. I understand why you feel offended, but the vast majority of folks rocking a console aren't as devoted to gaming as you are and aren't as willing to devote the time to learn a game as you are. Think about how many copies of Rock Band and Guitar Hero that sold. Or Madden. Or any number of other hugely popular games. Now how many of those consumers do you think are really like you? Educated and devoted gamers, whatever their platform of choice, are the minority of the greater gaming public.

Gaming used to be a hobby espoused by the erudite and brainy - it had to be, because once upon a time, you had to know a thing or two about computers to indulge in it. That's no longer the case. You can have a satisfying and immense gaming experience just by pushing a few buttons. It's absolutely wonderful that people who don't want to eat, sleep, and breathe games can enjoy what we love so dearly, but it also means that, yes, developers are going to have to lower that learning curve as much as possible to let people in.

I say all of this as a devout console gamer.

Thank you for stepping in Susan. Unfortunately, I believe that blood has already been spilled and the sharks are loose.

On topic, though, I can definitely see where they're coming from as far as their viewpoint is concerned. Consider, for a moment, the difference in control scheme between a controller and keyboard/mouse setup. For one, the keyboard/mouse setup tends to work very well for precision based directions. I'd argue that the this particular control scheme is ideal for an RTS or perhaps MMORPG game. While there are exceptions to this mode of thinking, you need to consider something with an RTS: I have, when my hand is over the left hand side of the keyboard (WASD) approximately 20 keys right at my fingertips. This translates roughly to 20 separate commands that I can enter at any point in time to my troops in an RTS setting. If we wish to go farther into that, then we can add into this the modifier keys Shift, Ctrl, and Alt, bringing the total to 60 possible commands there. From a development standpoint, you will rarely ever see that kind of flexibility from a controller.

However, the controller offers a sort of freedom that simply isn't permitted by a keyboard and mouse. You see, the problem with the keyboard/mouse setup is that you simply have an on/off switch with they keys themselves. Sure, you can move your mouse more slowly to gain more precise movements, but that's only one dynamic. A controller, especially since the last generation, offers flexibility in the joystick pair. Why? Let's look at a comparison of a game available on both a console and PC: Oblivion. Oblivion on the PC has a fairly simple setup on the PC in that the controls are pretty much laid out in front of you. It's easy to swap from spell to spell or weapon to weapon in this game. Camera, and facing, controls are generally left to the mouse. However, the PC runs into one major problem: movement speed. For those who haven't played the PC version, you have three movement speeds: Run, walk, and not moving, toggled via shift. While this may seem like a minor inconvenience, consider this: in order to determine movement speed, a console player need only push the stick as much as he feels he needs to in order to move more slowly or quickly. This seems exceedingly minor and a bit of a nitpick, but this mode of a control scheme seems exceedingly well suited to action/adventure games, FPS, and single character RPGs.

Some games are best suited for consoles. I can honestly say that I preferred Oblivion on the console over the PC. I can't imagine playing ME without a controller in my hand. On the other hand, I prefer games such as Dragon Age on my PC. Why? Two words: Iso and flexibility. I find it much more natural to play Dragon Age as a top-down RPG rather than an action RPG.

 

[Plinglebob]

The only reason PC gamers have more patience with a slower start/learning curve is because getting to the point of being able to play a PC game takes a lot of time. When I first started gaming I remember having to have a duel-boot set up on the PC because some PC games got picky if you tried to run them from Windows 3.1 or tried to run them from DOS after accessing Windows. Even now playing an older game can take a lot of work (I spent an hour yesterday getting Theme Hospital to work on a 64bit system) and installing a large game takes 20 minutes and thats not including patching time. Compared to the 3 minutes it takes to play to get to the start screen of a console game, its understandable.

 

[Brownie101]

Whoo! SO by that definition, I'm a console gamer though I only recently touched a console to play Brawl with some friends after about a year-long miss of console gaming.

Honestly, I am a very impatient person. Things need to get very fun, very quickly or I leave or cheat. Fallout 3 engaged me long enough to make megaton, but after that it all went south. The hikes through the wasteland got too long and I ended up using movetoqt so much that it and tgm and tcl are now ingrained into my brain. It wasn't a bad game by any means, I loved it, but it was only fun for me when I could run headlong into a deathclaw sanctuary and be completely certain I wouldn't take a hit of damage.

So, yea.