BioShock, Fallout Designers Say Console Gamers "Lack Patience"

Andy Chalk

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Nov 12, 2002
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BioShock, Fallout Designers Say Console Gamers "Lack Patience"


Ken Levine of Bethesda [http://www.irrationalgames.com] say console gamers want the same deep RPG experiences as their PC counterparts but need to be eased into them a bit more because they "don't have the patience to wade through the introduction of systems."

Ken Levine and Todd Howard are two guys who really know which end is up when it comes to videogames. Levine's work includes Fallout 3 [http://www.amazon.com/Thief-Dark-Project-Pc/dp/B00001YVIB/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1278013409&sr=1-1-fkmr0]. So when they say that console gamers are a little thick in the head, well, you pretty much have to go along with it.

They didn't actually say that, of course. What they did say, in the debut episode of Irrational Interviews [http://irrationalgames.com/insider/irrational-interviews-pilot/], is that console and PC gamers share a desire for deep role-playing experiences but have different expectations about how to achieve them. "[Levine and I] had talked about how we were going to translate [the core RPG] experience to the console audience," Howard said. "We had lots of conversations on how we were doing that, and at the end of the day it was, 'Look, we can have all that stuff in the game but we just have to make it easier to learn and easier to play.' Ultimately it makes the game better for everybody."

"You go into a PC game that has all those kinds of constructs, and there's this assumption when you're making those games that, 'This PC player by his nature is really hardcore and I really don't have to explain all this stuff,' whereas when you go to the console world, you need to ease them in a bit more," he continued. "But once they're into the game, the console guys want just as deep of an experience as the PC guys."

The issue, according to Levine, is that console gamers "don't have the patience to wade through the introduction of systems." He pointed to the opening sequence in Oblivion, in which the player helped Captain Picard out of a tough spot, as a "perfect example" of how to familiarize gamers with controls without making them sit through a less-engaging text-based tutorial.

It's no secret that I like poking fun at my button-mashing brothers and sisters, but I can't deny that there's a lot of validity to their point. I agree with Levine's assessment that, broadly speaking, console gamers tend to be less patient than their PC counterparts, but ultimately the experience is what matters and if studios can make that more accessible, everyone benefits.

Source: VG247 [http://www.vg247.com/2010/07/01/fallouts-howard-console-rpgs-must-be-easier-to-learn-and-easier-to-play/]


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Kiefer13

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Jul 31, 2008
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They're right. I'm not trying to imply that console gamers are all ADHD-riddled adrenaline junkies but, at least in my experience, they tend to have far less patience for spending time getting to grips with fiddly or complicated game mechanics. Honestly, I personally prefer it when my games have a certain level of complexity (which is part of the reason I've pretty much exclusively a PC gamer), but that's just my personal preference.
 

tautologico

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Apr 5, 2010
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In before another PC x Console war.

Some people may seem this as the console experience being "dumbed down", but if the games are made more accessible, indeed it's better for everyone. The ideal for a deep game is that it should be easy to get into, but hard to conquer all its complexities. "Easy to learn, difficult to master", as they say.
 

SamuelT

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It's true that many of my console friends have this 'Jump in and shoot things' mentlity, but the opposite is also true for many others. I myself can muster any amount of patience when given a wall'o text for anything, really.

Try us, you might get surprised.
 

Towowo2

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tautologico said:
In before another PC x Console war.

Some people may seem this as the console experience being "dumbed down", but if the games are made more accessible, indeed it's better for everyone. The ideal for a deep game is that it should be easy to get into, but hard to conquer all its complexities. "Easy to learn, difficult to master", as they say.
Took the words out of my mouth.
 

Loonerinoes

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I predict at least 5 pages worth of enraged replies and rebuttals to this particular newspost. :D

Speaking purely as a PC gamer well...heh...let's just say I wouldn't know. *shrug* But it will be fun to watch the fallout from this. Might be just as fun as the whole "Bioware says FF13 is not an RPG" article that was also misinterpreted by defensive fanboys as 'trolling' on their part heh...now I guess Irrational and Bethesda will also be 'trolling' in their eyes when really, they're just giving it their opinion from a designer's viewpoint.

I wish people could learn to look at it like that rather than through their console-colored glasses.
 

Carlston

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Yeah and just because the remote control was standard the idiot tv industry said we ALL had the attention span of 30 seconds...

It was the TV corps excuse to make more retarded and moronicly simple shows. it had nothing to do with the audience. Well they wouldn't make it if no one watched it? Bullshit, they MAKE everything. We HAVE to watch whatever swill they give us...

So now the game industry who has robbed us of turned based games, rpg and military strat are now making the same excuses to just avoid rpgs? Hey game makers...

IF YOUR TO INEPT AND STUPID TO MAKE A GOOD IN DEPTH RPG THEN DON'T MAKE EXCUSES THE WORLD DOESN'T WANT IT JUST DON'T MAKE IT.

Don't tell the millions of rpg fans we don't want the game cause you want the new halo fps golden goose you will never make.

God, if your honestly dumb enough to listen to the little prepuebs that cry at Kotor being stupid cause you have to "WAIT TO ATTACK! OMFG" It's like listening to a kid ***** about not being able to tackle someone in a baseball game. If you don't like the rules of X game don't play this game....play game Y.

Jesus...
 

tautologico

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HG131 said:
So, developers are into trolling too? Hmm, I was hoping that was one of the quirks only had by Bungie Employees.
They're not trolling, only saying that they are expected to do a better job introducing the game's systems to console players, whereas on PC they can simply assume the players will bang their heads against the game until they get it.

They even say that console and PC gamers want deep experiences just the same.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Well I have to say I agree on this one since consoles are a much larger fanbase built around mindless accessibility and not having to any technical micromanaging what so ever. Also many console gamers are kids lets be honest. Lots of kids do have consoles compared to the PC. Yes there are lots of adults on the consoles as well but there are way more kids. Kids are inherently impatient as they have not learned patience yet or humility.

Also I have never really had any trouble with any RPG game more than others. Like when you play a RTS you need to take time to learn hotkeys. Same as when you play a flight sim you need to play around with sensitivity and controls. Same as when you play Oblivion for the first time you need to learn controls. I really don't see why they need dumbed down. I mean the controls on consoles were dead easy just like the PC ones.
 

JaredXE

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Apr 1, 2009
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And again the PC-Gaming Master Race has another mark in our favour.

It really is a matter of attitude between the two gamer types. A console-only gamer is used to and expects immediate interactivity from start-up, where as a person who mainly uses the PC is used to delays, patches, quirks, mods and the like. It requires more patience.
 

zehydra

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HG131 said:
tautologico said:
HG131 said:
So, developers are into trolling too? Hmm, I was hoping that was one of the quirks only had by Bungie Employees.
They're not trolling, only saying that they are expected to do a better job introducing the game's systems to console players, whereas on PC they can simply assume the players will bang their heads against the game until they get it.

They even say that console and PC gamers want deep experiences just the same.
Stereotyping an entire, unique, different group isn't trolling? Since when?
Trolling is done on purpose. When someone trolls, they usually know they're wrong. They're just saying it to see people get ticked off.
 

NSGrendel

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As someone who wasted a great deal of their early twenties working in games retail, I would like to testify that console gamers generally ARE retards. Albeit retards with about triple the likelihood of having a girlfriend.
 

2fish

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HG131 said:
tautologico said:
HG131 said:
So, developers are into trolling too? Hmm, I was hoping that was one of the quirks only had by Bungie Employees.
They're not trolling, only saying that they are expected to do a better job introducing the game's systems to console players, whereas on PC they can simply assume the players will bang their heads against the game until they get it.

They even say that console and PC gamers want deep experiences just the same.
Stereotyping an entire, unique, different group isn't trolling? Since when?
It would be filed under stupid not troll. Great way to pitch the game though, "We know you are dumber than other players so this will work for you". If you sound like you are talking down to people your products may suffer. Stereotyping will simply limit what the company produces and will also limit their sales. They have been doing this for some time now and at this rate I may have to change my user name to disgruntled gamer at some point.
 

tautologico

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HG131 said:
Stereotyping an entire, unique, different group isn't trolling? Since when?
I think this is a bit too much of politically-correct thinking, sorry. If you're a designer and you need to decide whether or not to include a tutorial for some system, whether or not to make a system more accessible, you will not think "oh, but there are exceptions! there are people who are not like that". You'll think about what most users will want.

They are speaking as designers, not trying to make a deep study about the sociology of console gamers.
 

swolf

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May 3, 2010
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So that's why they made Bioshock so simple...I'm not saying that it was bad, just that I would've liked a bit more complexity to it.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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There hasn't been true PC gaming for years. The last sort of big deal PC exclusive I can think of was STALKER COP which might as well have been an XBOX port compared to the original.

Console ports SUCK on the PC, the last good one I can think of was the original KOTOR (KOTOR 2 doesn't count because it wasn't finished).

I'll use all caps to get the point across.

CONSOLE INTERFACES MEANT FOR VIEWING AT 10 FEAT AWAY ON A 40 INCH TV SUCK WHEN YOU VIEW THEM FROM 2 FEET AWAY ON an 18 INCH MONITOR!

Also game devs really need to get with the program and stop using rasters for their icons, menus, etc. A vector scales perfectly for any resolution and any screen size.

Bioshock failed to live up to the legacy of System Shock because all none of the leveling elements mattered and the gameplay was hideously dumbed down. No inventory system? WTF? The hacking mini game was particularly insipid and made me quit after the first level.