BioWare "Falsely Advertised" Mass Effect 3

Mattlore

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Feb 27, 2012
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Mournblade94 said:
Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.
Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
 

Mournblade94

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Apr 11, 2012
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irishda said:
And one more time just so we're clear:
I'm not saying "games should be the same as life". I'm pointing out the flawed reasoning that people's decisions in the game didn't matter because there were only three endings. A story is not defined by the last two pages, just as our lives are not defined by how we die, because even though the galaxy ends up in one of three ways, the state of that galaxy was determined by the player's decisions.
The three endings were not the problem. The three Bad endings were the problem. The final state of the galaxy after the endings actually has very little to do with the decisions shephard makes previous to the ABC yes/no/nor point.

the reason your point does not apply here is because lives are not defined the same way as art. Some M night shalamaln movies were great until the end. At the end the twist changed the paradigm of the movie.

The ending indeed changes a story. The ending can make or break a great story.

Actually there are people in history that are elevated or villified because of how they died, regardless of their previous deeds. So indeed I did not miss your point it was just not relevant.
 

Feildin

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Apr 17, 2009
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Personally anything the BBB says I take with a grain of salt. They have been notorious for "pay to play" type shenanigans. i.e. Don't pay dues, bad rating, your business got reported, through them a little cash and it gets forgotten. To me its just someone jumping on the bandwagon to try to get a piece of the action. That is just my 2 cents though.
 

Sperium 3000

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Mar 16, 2009
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Well, I clearly remember the words "Widly different endings" being used at some point by the ME3 dev team, so that technically is false advertisement, I suppose. But you know what? I'm tired of this. We're not getting a new ending, because either Bioware or EA is stupid and doesn't like when their fans are happy, so I'll let's just let this drop. The ME series is over and done with, and the ending of ME3 spoiled any other game that might take place in the same setting.

In other words, Mass Effect has become Star Wars.
 

Mournblade94

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Apr 11, 2012
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Mattlore said:
Mournblade94 said:
Mattlore said:
No, you ARE allowed to complain about a game ending. Hell, people have been doing it for generations! You go onto a blog, forum, or video game news industry website and you write your review, people either agree or disagree and you move on with your life. What it's NOT is trying to drive a company into the ground with you incessant whining and self entitlement (Yes I use this term a lot, but frankly it's really the best way to sum up this whole ridiculous thing) and going as far as getting the BBB involved.
Other than the fact you misuse the word entitlement, tell me WHY I can't cause problems for a company. Elaborate please. The fact that you do not want me to is not a valid reason.

I have a consumer relationship with bioware. What you want me to do is inconsequential to the case at hand.
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
Where your point fails is that yes everyone has sucked it up, but many of them will not trust bioware enough to purchase a game from them again. It is that pressure that bioware is listening to, not the whining. They obviously feel that enough people are disappointed enough to not purchase from them in the future. That is the goal. Let them know my Dollars matter. I got EXACTLY what I was entitled to with Bioware. Now I am letting them know it was unsatisfactory. That is where this is not an issue of entitlement. It is an issue of quality, and that is what you fail to see.

I played ME 1 and ME 2 at least 3 times each. The ending ruined the replayability for me and so I did not receive a product of the same caliber as ME1 and ME2. I got my money's worth for the previous incarnations and ME3 gave me less bang for the buck. I am letting Bioware know that. If they choose not to improve, then I will send my dollars elsewhere.

The disappointment with D&D 4th edition caused WOTC to change its course. Perhaps the same will happen with bioware. I am not entitled to anything bioware makes. But if they make games I have no faith will be a story I will enjoy, I will not buy it.

Since you like nicknames perhaps I will call you Lillypad. See lillypad, that is all there is to the relationship:) You don't have to like it.
 

medv4380

The Crazy One
Feb 26, 2010
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Mattlore said:
Entitlement: The belief that you have the right to a product, ideal, privilege, ect...Based on contact, or law.

It has been argued that yes, Bioware delivered on their contract to deliver an experience in which your decisions vastly shape the outcome of said experience. Many people commenting in here and other places have pointed out that yes; your choices DO have reaching and very different consequences on your game play...JUST NOT THE ENDING (Frankly the woman from the BBB was either hoping on a bandwagon or didn't even play the game)!!
Their product delivered on what was the base establishment and agreement (To Provide an interactive experience where your choices make drastic changes throughout the course of the journey) and everyone (For the most part) enjoyed 98% of the product.
You don't go to a restaurant, order a meal and demand that a new one be made just because you don't like the last bite. This is why RME is a stupid movement. Your consumer relationship with Bioware was fully fulfilled when you were having fun with the game. So suck it up butter-cup.
Then you used the word entitlement incorrectly. They don't have a belief they in fact have a right as a valid purchaser of the product. Entitlement would be if they hadn't actually purchased anything at all. Entitlement would be if they received the product for free. Because of their purchase they do have a right to complain about the quality of the product.

The BBB is in fact a perfectly valid place to submit a complaint of this nature. You're probably under the false assumption that the BBB is some government entity, and has some weight to impose a fine.

In truth the BBB is a more effective version of Metacritic. People submit complaint and those complaints affect the BBB reputation of businesses that are members of the BBB. As a consumer you are free to lookup the score and public complaints and choose to do business with someone based off of that score. The BBB is better than metacritic because it vets complains and actually does follow ups. It even posts if there was a resolution to the complaint. It is better in Business to Business transactions and in Large purchases since people don't seem to care to lookup a business if they are spending less than a grand on a product.

The opinion of the of the BBB Representative is not "hoping on the bandwagon". It is the opinion of an expert who reviews complaints and business practices for a living. She certainly did not play the game and you clearly didn't read the article ether. It is a review of complaints and in their opinion the complaints are constant and frequent enough to conclude that the audience was in some way deceived.

Bioware or EA has the right to respond on they BBB web sit and submit their counter to the complaint. Not responding will probably result in their rating being downgraded as their current rating is not A+ is as the BBB puts it
"BBB does not have sufficient background information on this business. BBB made two or more requests for background information from the business. BBB has not received a response from this business and/or has not been able to verify information received from this business."

The only reason it is not valid to submit a complaint about EA or Bioware to the BBB is that most people don't use it in their game purchases. They use Metacritic instead.

And per Metacritic it doesn't look like "most" people enjoyed it at all.
A simple analyis of the public comments shows
The top 25% rated it a 10
The median is a 5
The bottom 25% rated it a 0
Clearly the audiance appears to be split 50/50

The only thing with worse than ME3 in ratings is Skyrim for the PS3 which is explained by a buggy unplayable game at launch.

Most games follow the pattern of
Top 25% rate a game as 10
Top 50% rate a game as 10
Bottom 25% rate a game as 9 - 8

Examples
Mass Effect 3 10,5,0
Dragon Age II 8,4,1
Dragon Age 9.5,8,6
Skyrim PS3 9,1,0
FFX-2 10,9,5
Kingdoms of Amalur 10,9,8
Uncharted 3 10,10,9
Disgaea 4 10,10,9.25
Skyrim 360 10,10,9
 

wgmovies

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May 26, 2009
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another mass effect thread AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH RELEASE ME FROM THIS CURSE (nah just kidding i like these threads)
 

punipunipyo

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chadachada123 said:
punipunipyo said:
on one hand, I rage about the ending being just color filters in terms of "dynamic differences" when making choices...

I wanted to say to all who flamed about my statement "wow... looks like GoW, where is the story part of this game? what happens to characters? like mass2? from the trailer, I think it's going to be action packed, but less story driven, and from the grim of the whole look, and theme, I assumed it will have a rushed ending as well..." I just want to be nice and say "I told you so..." but that's besides the point...

EA/Bioware said not long ago, a new sets of ending is on the way... we should just be patience and wait for it, I think the rage was answered... I thik we should just let the guys in Bioware work it out, and we will see in few months...
It's not a new set of endings, though. It's the same ending, but with a couple of extra scenes to "clarify" some things. The actual problem (the ending being nonsensical and shitty) can't be solved with extra clarification unless you make it based on the indoctrination theory.
and there I was, thinking it was all good... I had so much hope... oh well... I'll just go to the corner and cry now...
 

Shinigami214

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Jan 6, 2008
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viranimus said:
Shinigami214 said:
May I direct you to this blog post which has a wealth of such examples, most of which are far more specific than than a quick skim off the ME3 website?
No, you may not. What your directing me to are NOT advertisements for the game. If what your pointing to is not an advertisement then it cannot support the claim of false advertisement. What your directing me to is interviews and articles that people interpret as promises. What your putting forth is just the public interpretation of promises via forum discussions and interviews filled with a whole lot of speculation, circumstantial evidence and out and out extrapolation. Not actual advertisements as in viable print/video advertisements where the advertisement says in no uncertain terms that this game will have X feature.

Ive still yet to see anything presented that is an "advertisement" that has not been disproven already (IE: the line about outcomes on the ME3 advertisement page) or that is not related to interviews or bioware forum posts that are based extensively in public misinterpretation/speculation. When that gem is presented I will back off on this, but even after dozens of quotes to prove me wrong and a month later its still not yet surfaced.
We disagree on a fundamental point. You believe that any sort of promotion that is not strictly paid-for advertising does not count as promotion.

I, and the U.S. advertising regulatory system (from what I can understand), believe otherwise.

Pointless to argue further, really.

I could persist in presenting a wealth of examples that (in my opinion) constitute examples of misleading promotion and advertising, but if you don't believe them to constitute advertising to begin with, there's no point.
 

maxben

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Jun 9, 2010
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AnarchistAbe said:
GamesB2 said:
AnarchistAbe said:
Jokes on the gamers! Now, we'll get the same exact ending to every fucking game. The safe, happy ending that nobody has grounds to complain about. Thank you, "retakers". Thank you for your entitled douchebaggery.
We don't want happy[i/] endings per se, we want meaningful endings that make sense and are affected by choice.


What you WANT is irrelevant. What you'll GET is companies playing it more safe than ever, to avoid getting sued by you whiny *insert derogatory expletive here*s.

Congratulations! You got what you wanted, though. That's all that really matters, right? This company, that you loved so much and created a series we all love, getting hit for false advertising because you all didn't like what happened. Congratulations!


You make an interesting prediction, but I don't see the logic.
False advertising is bad, always and without question.
 

Baconmonster723

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Mar 4, 2009
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I don't want my money back, I don't want to sue them for false advertising, I don't want to single out Bioware. I just want the last 15 minutes of that game wiped from my memory. It was stellar up until that point. Give me back those 15 minutes and all will be as it was.
 

anthony87

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Iron Criterion said:
Caramel Frappe said:
Also, I do not mind who judges me.. for insults or worse- I still believe fighting over the ending is worth my time.
And if people put this much effort into solving real issues the world would be a better place.
I had a nice reply lined up for this but then I saw one in the same vein that was done much better so I'm just gonna go and steal it.

SpiderJerusalem said:
Oh great, another one of your kind of people. Needless bleeding hearts. The Britta Perry's of this world. "Don't complain about ANYTHING! Someone, somewhere, somehow is DYING or DEAD! Think about that! I'm socially aware because I realized that on a planet of 7 billion people, there might be someone, somewhere who might be worse off than me or you, so I can take a high ground and feel good about myself for pointing out to others that any and all complaints are void, because someone, somewhere has trumped it because they've got it worse!"

Luckily, from what I've seen, most people seem to grow up from that phase. Hopefully you will too.
 

nasteypenguin

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Mar 2, 2011
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I don't exactly like the whole mass effect controversy thing, but I think it's going to generate a lot more good than bad in the long term. What I don't like is the fact that some of the people who shout about how it's all entirely ridiculous, probably make the same remarks about how people don't do anything to show that companies are making easy choices - like continuous sequels, or generic fps remakes.

The scale at which this has gotten means that the companies have to take notice, and take into account what the consumers want more than they would normally. Whether you think this will cause an outcome for good or for bad, it doesn't matter that much - at least it will make an impact and I would rather the crowd have done something worthwhile than sit back and buy whatever was released.

This advertising business just helps my point; companies aren't working together internally anymore, each part is just going with what they've always done and expecting it will work because nothing has proven it to them otherwise.
Don't think about it as trying to force somebody into delivering what you want, more like giving someone who has lost direction a slap in the face to make them realise what was going on around them.

In a perfect world companies should only exist to please the consumer and regardless of how "realistic" your outlook on life is, people should still be working towards that ideal.
 

Shia-Neko-Chan

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Apr 23, 2008
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Wow. Appalling.

You know, I don't claim false advertisement whenever Nintendo claims they've made something new or when I buy a terrible game that claims it's fun on the back of the case. I don't know why this is even considered valid by anyone.
 

X10Unit1

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Dec 28, 2011
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Devilnumber2 said:
Comments made in interviews and even full blown advertising campaigns should never be construed as promises. Why do any of us still do that? Haven't we had our expectations let down enough to realize we shouldn't believe what we're told until we get the game in our hands?

Guess not. Nerds gonna Rage, I spose.
Here is a concept: If you aren't going to do what you say, don't say it.
 

Wieke

Quite Dutch.
Mar 30, 2009
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Seanfall said:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.
Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.
 

Axyun

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Oct 31, 2011
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I'm glad this stance was taken by the BBB. Whether it's medicine, cars or video games, the companies that provide products or services should not lie about them.
 

webkilla

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Feb 2, 2011
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Wieke said:
Seanfall said:
I would like the option, the chance at a happy ending. Or at least one with more Sweetness and slightly less Bitterness.
Annoying thing is (wel one of the annoying things) is that they proved they can do bitter sweet endings right. Some of the missions had damn bitter sweet endings. Especially curing the genophage if Mording is/was loyal, it managed to be both optimistic and depressing at the same time.
that's what you get when the ending isn't peer reviewed - and instead is written by two guys, one of which have a mancruch on deep philosophical endings, which ends up having no connection to the rest of the plot