At no point was Bioware bashing Final Fantasy 13. They simply said that it doesn't fit the definition of a modern RPG, and I happen to agree with them.Kenjitsuka said:
BioWare: Final Fantasy XIII is Not an RPG
- Thread starter Tom Goldman
- Start date
I call it a turn based strategy, because that's really what the game is for the post part. Lots of turn based battles with lots of blabbing in between. But yeah, I agree with BioWare. Final Fantasy 13 is NOT and NEVER WILL BE an RPG. RPG stands for "role playing game" and not "play as the same annoying characters in the same linear story every time game."Tom Goldman said:
That's pretty easy. The M for Mature rating doesn't mean mature content in the game. It means that the PLAYER should be mature to play this game. Sure, you can debate about the maturity of some older people, but can you call 7 year olds mature? Not by any stretch that I can think of. Therefore, they shouldn't be playing games like Mass Effect 2, Call of Duty, GTA IV, and other M rated games.LiquidGrape said:
The M on the box is an age restriction rating, not a content review.
Saying FF XIII isn't an RPG is sorta wrong because that still indicates that FF XIII is a game, which it isn't. FF XIII is an interactive movie where you run down hallways from cutscene to cutscene. It's somewhat like Heavy Rain but it makes even less sense somehow. It's actually worse than Xenosaga or the MGS series which, until FF13, took the prize for the highest percentage of incomprehensible cutscenes. But FF13 now claims that prize. The former two at least had some game between the movies. Out of the say.. 30hrs it takes to play FF13.. how much of that would you say is actual game? Maybe 10hrs? Probably less.
What huge world are you seeing in FF XIII? Yeah, you get that it's there. In the same way when you play Half Life, you know there's a big world out there, but you sure as hell don't get to see it. The huge horizon view cut scenes don't count. There are no towns, no proper stores, no side quests (unless you count that monster hunting crap they use to artificially create a "post-game", which I don't and no one should) and you only see a few blocks of the "city" of Cocoon and a few square miles of Pulse. It's an even smaller feeling game than FF X was.
There's 6 basic weapons for each person but it's not as though they're improvements, each one just caters to a different set of paradigms and since you can't shift weapons mid fight, is utterly pointless. There's no high customization, you just up their attack and/or magic stats. That's basic and boring as it gets.
And oh yeah, this game is story focused. The story makes no sense, but the game spends 90% of the time shoving cut scenes down your throat and begrudgingly let you walk down the hallways between them.
And FF13's combat isn't turn based! How can someone even attempt to claim that it is? It barely even qualifies as combat. It's closer to picking selections off an poorly laid out spreadsheet. It's "almost" an action game except for the fact you don't get to move your characters and all you do is pick your attacks from a list.
[/quote]BrotherRool said:
What huge world are you seeing in FF XIII? Yeah, you get that it's there. In the same way when you play Half Life, you know there's a big world out there, but you sure as hell don't get to see it. The huge horizon view cut scenes don't count. There are no towns, no proper stores, no side quests (unless you count that monster hunting crap they use to artificially create a "post-game", which I don't and no one should) and you only see a few blocks of the "city" of Cocoon and a few square miles of Pulse. It's an even smaller feeling game than FF X was.
There's 6 basic weapons for each person but it's not as though they're improvements, each one just caters to a different set of paradigms and since you can't shift weapons mid fight, is utterly pointless. There's no high customization, you just up their attack and/or magic stats. That's basic and boring as it gets.
And oh yeah, this game is story focused. The story makes no sense, but the game spends 90% of the time shoving cut scenes down your throat and begrudgingly let you walk down the hallways between them.
And FF13's combat isn't turn based! How can someone even attempt to claim that it is? It barely even qualifies as combat. It's closer to picking selections off an poorly laid out spreadsheet. It's "almost" an action game except for the fact you don't get to move your characters and all you do is pick your attacks from a list.
That was pretty much my point, even if I made a half-assed job of making it. BioWare (or rather Casey Hudson) claims in interviews that their goal with Mass Effect was to make a series of PG-13 space operas, which somehow rules out homosexual elements.mjc0961 said:
Cue the absurd contrast to its rating.
As ironic as Bioware stating that Final Fantasy is not an RPG series is, one mediocre developer talking shit about another mediocre developer is not a legitimate news story.
At what point did they say it wasn't a good game? They simply said it wasn't an RPG.Brad Shepard said:
Whether or not you ultimately agree with them, I'm pretty sure that the folks who made Baldur's Gate get to say a thing or two on the subject.
Fair enough, it's not like because it's not an RPG it's a horrible game.
I would consider it a turn-based adventure game with RPG elements, I suppose. Those RPG elements being leveling up and creating equipment and such. Still a great game.
I would consider it a turn-based adventure game with RPG elements, I suppose. Those RPG elements being leveling up and creating equipment and such. Still a great game.
When you get down to it, RPG stands for Role Playing Game. If you don't feel as if you are a part of the experience, then by definition it's not an RPG. However, many people really don't care about the details and call it an RPG anyway. I don't really care has I have no interest in FFXIII.
If by Mediocre you mean the most acclaimed Western RPG developer by both fans and critics with hit Triple A game after hit Triple A game, then yes Bioware is "mediocre".GenHellspawn said:
*rolls eyes* "look at me guys I'll be cool by going against the crowd and making bold statements!"
*Ahem*
Anyways moving on to the actual topic this whole news story is pretty damn misleading. The quote is attributed to just one Bioware writer and it's not like he speaks for the company itself. Labeling this story as "Bioware says" is sensationalist at best and a poor attempt to drum up controversy and comments at worst...Lead writer he may be, but it's still just one guys opinion. (Edit:-And I know it's not Tom naming the story that before someone quotes me and points that out)
At the end of the day does it really matter if one RPG is different from another? The RPG genre is so broad that the term RPG is impossible to define. What started out as pen and paper "create your own adventure" has morphed into a genre encompassing a multitude of different types/styles of games and hybrids of other genres. Saying an RPG HAS to have one single aspect or another to be called in RPG is just false. You can't just point at an inventory system, or stats and say "see if a game doesn't have this, it isn't an RPG!". Especially with the many hybrid games and even straightfoward games incorporating RPG elements there is no single factor that makes a game an RPG or not. Even Resident Evil has inventory systems, and Call of Duty has an experience and level system and we wouldn't call those games RPGs.
*sigh* I LOVE THE INTERNET RAWR!!!AndreyC said:
Honestly...THE INTERVIEWER brought up the comparison to FF13!!! NOT BIOWARE! And he had to reply within the context of the question that was fielded to him!
Really...while I agree that comparing WRPGs to JRPGs is silly and pointless in the end, I love how all the goddamn people who hate Bioware's success immediately decide to parade their retarted and biased opinions on this thread even though:
a)This interview's topic was not even a discussion of JRPGs versus WRPGs for starters and hence this comment's relevance should be somewhat automatically adjusted for in that respect
b)The interviewer was the one who put that context up and Bioware's representative had to answer it within that context
c)He even stated himself that 'he was going on a controversial route' by saying so and wasn't outright slamming FF13 (like, for example, the Far Cry 2 writer did on Call of Duty)
Can you please keep some perspective about this while you discuss it? Honestly...the internet really is the perfect place to distort everything that is said by anyone. Bioware's PR has been the most non-confrontational of any developer I can think of, but you'd think that they've suddenly transformed into a goddamn shit-talker, just because one of their representatives gives his honest opinion on a question, that was originally fielded to him with that specific frame firmly in place from the get go.
But go ahead and set up your WRPG and JRPG barricades or go the hip, trendy route and call both sides shit. In the end, it's just going to keep on going with its typical amount of intelligence, or rather the lack thereof.
If that was the last three hours of your game, then what the HELL game were you playing? Cause it sure as hell wasn't the same FF13 I played. I got the first sidequest at hour twenty, and still had thirty or fourty more hours of game to go before I was done.danpascooch said:
Fucking fuck, I swear, it seems like half the people who bought FF13 bought it to have something to complain about.
Anyway, I prefer my RPGs that are able to sacrifice story for battle (FFXIII, FFV, and like, EVERY DRAGON QUEST) or can strike a perfect balance (MegaTen, Shadow Hearts)
But Brain_Cleanser, those are all JRPGs!
Yeah, because I haven't found a single WRPG thats fit my taste. I think BioWare should go write some books if they're so good at writing, and I've failed to find a single WRPG that can engross me or endear me to the characters.
Basically, I feel Japan does it right, and the West should stick to action and FPS games.
I know this makes me sound like a prick, but I really don't care.
So it's the most acclaimed developer by it's fans? Either you're being incredibly redundant or attempting to state that opinions are objective (which would be equally as idiotic).Bigeyez said:
Also, just because somebody doesn't like something you do, doesn't mean their a troll. Is that really too hard to comprehend?
Yeah, FFXIII has more in common with adventure games than RPGs. Therefore its proper genre is adventure rather then RPG, and that's fine, honestly the world could use a few more half-decent adventure games.
That could be said about any game in existence really, that makes Halo, Metroid Prime, Crackdown, Left 4 Dead and Metal Gear Solid RPGS.Deofuta said:
You play a role, yes. But you have no say as to what goes on, which is more what an RPG is supposed to be. Even in the older Final Fantasy games, you could go off path now and then, name your characters and such and just have a little more control over things.
With Final Fantasy XIII, not so much. I'm leaning toward agreeing with this, but only kinda loosely, and I'm not the biggest Final Fantasy fan anymore.