Bioware, Please Make A Plus-Sized Female Dragon Age Character!

[The Almighty Aardvark]

*snip*

Just need to say, this post is great. I laughed

EDIT: Also there is literally no situation where being fat would make you a BETTER fighter in any fight.

They have heavyweight divisions in wrestling for a reason and it's not because the skinnier fighters would beat them too easily

 

[Something Amyss]

You asked how being physically fit can help you be a better fighter.

No, I actually didn't. And that's the problem. You're trying to accuse me of ignoring an answer that didn't answer a question I didn't ask.

You inserted it.

And since you've dodged every other issue I brought up, I guess that's that.

 

[Qizx]

You asked how being physically fit can help you be a better fighter.

No, I actually didn't. And that's the problem. You're trying to accuse me of ignoring an answer that didn't answer a question I didn't ask.

You inserted it.

And since you've dodged every other issue I brought up, I guess that's that.

You asked how being physically fit can help you be a better fighter.

No, I actually didn't. And that's the problem. You're trying to accuse me of ignoring an answer that didn't answer a question I didn't ask.

You inserted it.

And since you've dodged every other issue I brought up, I guess that's that.

I said "No matter WHAT you're capable of being physically fit will make you a better fighter." You then said "Please tell me how you came to this conclusion about fantasy material. Do muscles help my psychic powers?"

I explained how I came to the conclusion that being physically fit makes you a better fighter. Now unless you're moving the goal posts I'm done here.

*snip*

Just need to say, this post is great. I laughed

EDIT: Also there is literally no situation where being fat would make you a BETTER fighter in any fight.

They have heavyweight divisions in wrestling for a reason and it's not because the skinnier fighters would beat them too easily

And those heavyweight people are not "fat" those heavyweight people are built of muscle and yes, do have a layer of fat. I didn't say that lighter = better fighter. I said FAT = worse fighter.

If anyone seriously is doubting that being fat is advantageous in the fight why isn't this how our SEALS look?
http://www.quickmeme.com/img/68/6895c70ea5ec662bae5a343a5bee648eedf02cbc2ffcc1250b04c6c978543ea8.jpg

I'm out.

 

[Skatologist]

How can Liana Kerzner, a female gamer, have the body type of every female video game character ever made when the body type of every female video game character ever made are unrealistic and non-representative of female gamers?

You're the dude that likes citing definitions, correct? You do realize "unrealistic" has more than one of those things? Such as things not being practical, likely or idealistic are, "unrealistic". A person eating McDonald's every day of their life is technically possible and realistic by a few definitions, but unrealistic by others.

 

[Something Amyss]

I said "No matter WHAT you're capable of being physically fit will make you a better fighter."

Like I said, you inserted it. Since there's no contention, why even bring it up?

And those heavyweight people are not "fat" those heavyweight people are built of muscle and yes, do have a layer of fat. I didn't say that lighter = better fighter. I said FAT = worse fighter.

Except, as already noted, this is exactly the kind of "fat" I was talking about. So now you're the one ignoring stuff, since the original quote was mine. Within the context of that quote, Aardvark was 100% right to bring up heavyweights. Nobody was talking about being a giant blob of flesh, but you decided to make it that and chastise TWO people now over it.

 

[omega 616]

I actually wrote a long post, before I deleted it and typed this 'cos I knew I would end up in hot water for it.

On topic though, you expect bioware to make a character for everybody size and shape going? Just so people can cosplay it? Sorry but you will just have to pick a different game.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

And those heavyweight people are not "fat" those heavyweight people are built of muscle and yes, do have a layer of fat. I didn't say that lighter = better fighter. I said FAT = worse fighter.

Spoiler

Heavyweight boxer. No doubt he has muscle, but he also has a lot of fat on him. His larger mass is probably pretty advantageous for taking and throwing punches.

You can be fat and have muscle, just as easily as you can be skinny and have none.

 

[Fox12]

No thanks. We want IDEALIZED people in these games, not realistic ones. They are all basically superheroes.

I want them exceptionally smart or strong and probably all good looking in their own way. This is my OPINION and my PREFERENCE, and there is no right answer.

I DO NOT WANT FAT CHARACTERS ANY MORE THAN I WANT FAT PEOPLE IN THE WORLD. It is one of the least appealing traits a human being can have and is such a chronic problem in America that the current trend is to just justify it and "feel good" about yourself while the world literally dies from the effects of obesity through diabetes and heart disease.

lol, what did I just read?

OT: Can't we just have a wealth of body types? Not everybody is going to be able to perfectly cosplay every character. It's not like there's a universal body type. I get the lamentations, but I don't necessarily think Bioware needs to tailor their character designs to the cosplaying crowds.

 

[Qizx]

I said "No matter WHAT you're capable of being physically fit will make you a better fighter."

Like I said, you inserted it. Since there's no contention, why even bring it up?

And those heavyweight people are not "fat" those heavyweight people are built of muscle and yes, do have a layer of fat. I didn't say that lighter = better fighter. I said FAT = worse fighter.

Except, as already noted, this is exactly the kind of "fat" I was talking about. So now you're the one ignoring stuff, since the original quote was mine. Within the context of that quote, Aardvark was 100% right to bring up heavyweights. Nobody was talking about being a giant blob of flesh, but you decided to make it that and chastise TWO people now over it.

There clearly IS contention because you literally asked how it helps? You seemed to literally be disagreeing with my point by asking how it helped... Either there's some major disconnect between us or you're deliberately fucking with me.

AND if you look at my original post I clearly stated that I don't think size 8 is fat by any means so no I didn't ignore it.

EDIT: And I broke my one rule of not getting into internet arguments cause they always go like this. Overweight people = worse at fighting, was and always will be my point. This does NOT mean that lighter people = better fighters. There is a difference. The over part. If anyone is disagreeing with this like Anita is then I have no point in talking.

 

[Sarge034]

I haven't done a Bioware cosplay for one simple reason: my boobs are too big.

Then adapt and overcome? If Bioware did make a character with big boobs would they not be reamed for "over sexualizing" that one character? Come on now, if folks can do good "gender bent" cosplays I think you can find a way to incorporate your boobs.

 

[Something Amyss]

AND if you look at my original post I clearly stated that I don't think size 8 is fat by any means so no I didn't ignore it.

You ignored it right in the post I quoted.

What I said was correct. What you said is not. Sorry.

 

[Qizx]

AND if you look at my original post I clearly stated that I don't think size 8 is fat by any means so no I didn't ignore it.

You ignored it right in the post I quoted.

What I said was correct. What you said is not. Sorry.

NUH UH I'M RIGHT! Seriously that's what this has degraded to, I'm out of here. I stated that overweight people are worse fighters, you must then think they're better. We can leave it at that. And before you try and deny it you literally just said right above that I'm wrong and you're right, I have stated my premise countless times.

Have fun.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Snip

Fine.

I still find design on female characters to be rather boring. Hell, you just flat out said that all video game characters have the same design. That's boring. I want variety.

Also I looked up plus size women. They look NOTHING like that picture.

I know that they don't, this is me in post #8:

"Try searching for images under "plus-sized" and "buxom" and tell me what results match Liana's figure the most."

 

[Redryhno]

And I believe you read too far into what I was saying as well. Your basic reasoning was that it was the middle ages and the bodies and beauty thingamabob needed to reflect that as well.

That wasn't my reasoning. The person I quoted said that having overweight people in the Dragon Age world doesn't make any sense. There's nothing in the Dragon Age world that necessitates that people be uniformly skinny besides the fact that everyone's uniformly skinny. Dragon Age is strongly based around a medieval society, and the medieval society it was based around had plenty of overweight people, and they were even considered more attractive for it. As such, it's not a crazy notion to have chubbier people in a medieval based world.

Once again, I'm not saying that because medieval society was like this, they should adopt this aspect into their game. Their world is only based on medieval society, they can pick and choose what they want as long as it makes sense in world. All I'm saying is that it's not a nonsensical notion for Dragon Age to have overweight people in its world.

My basic reasoning was that there needed to be something other than one asshole country that nobody likes that had problems with gay/trans. Both are explained away in-universe as it being a fantasy land that doesn't have to conform to OUR world's history, rules, or standards in any way.

I don't disagree with this. It's a fantasy world based on our world, it'd be frankly boring if they made everything the same. However, the LGBT views in the world are something worked into the lore. The nobility's fascination with exercise and fitness isn't really.

And as has been said in countless other threads that has had this type of thing pop up, those limited models for space has never been a good enough answer in my experience for the people that don't want them for whatever reason. Don't much mind either way, but I'm always one for keeping costs down and making the player use more than just their eyes to see a character.

I'm not necessarily saying it's a good excuse, I'm just saying it was probably at least a factor in the decision. Personally I'd like more of a range, but if anything it bothers me more with male character creation than female. The male builds (if they give you the option in the first place) are almost always complete beefcakes. Often the character I want to make is smaller or more lanky. It's not the biggest issue, but it's a nagging annoyance when I can only create characters with Gears of War proportions.

Either way, Bioware's sorta screwed as a company if this continues. They already lost most of their goodwill the last few years from the people that loved their games as games, and now they're starting to slide into the same crap the last couple seasons of Sherlock jumped in headfirst without a snorkel with. Listening that closely to fans without some kind of quality control that isn't just buddies patting each other on the back is not really ever a good thing.

I'm the last person to support the fans hijacking a series, it's largely the reason why I stopped watching Supernatural. But fan demand was what made Tali a romanceable character, and what actually brought her back for the second game in the first place. I never hear people complaining about Tali being present in the game, but you can barely talk about Bioware without someone complaining about there being too many gay characters, or about those gay characters trying to flirt with them.

The biggest problems I have with Bioware have to do with their writing, not the amount of diversity they do or do not include. Their writing has been in a downward spiral for a number of years for all of their characters, not just the lgbt ones. The lgbt characters are just people's scapegoat for Bioware's decline.

It's also sorta nonsensical to say that there should be overweight characters when 80% of the time, you're literally running around with your group, that keeps off quite a bit of weight by itself, not to mention even mages have INCREDIBLY complex body movements to cast their spells in the DA world.

Even if you take off the non-canon running around of you getting lost or looking around, it's still quite a bit of it in each game, Inquisition more than all of the rest combined I'd bet.

And back we come to the crapfest that is Dragon Age anymore. I don't think that lgbtqrstuv characters are the main reason for Bioware's decline, that's sorta more reserved for their senior writing staff being replaced with their understudies before ME3 and a lack of people being able to say "NO" if they aren't friends with some of the lead designers.

To a point, I would say they're more a symptom than a reason for their decline as well. Not saying they're unwelcome, just they rely more on archetypes and stereotyping for character writing anymore and the problem's just exasperated with their "progressive" characters because every character has a central theme and more often than not their 'I'm not straight" beacon is it rather than anything else about them. Alisair's the funny guy with a troubled past, Morrigan's the ***** with a soft side, Wynn's your granny, and Leliana's the useless bi-girl(though to be fair, this is mostly because of how the game was set up with gear and such for rogues that weren't the PC, in which case you were broken as all hell)

And exactly how is the LGBT stuff in the lore? Everyone else I've argued with over this point has said that it wasn't in the lore because it doesn't need to explain why. I'd really love to have an actual answer that wasn't dismissive for once on this issue. The closest I remember is honestly the Andraste stuff.

Well If you want your comment thread to explode, just mention anything to do with diversity, female cosplay and/or a word that can be misinterpereted easily by people that cannot be arsed to read any more than the heading of an article for their snap-judgement and here we go!
This is going to be fun.

Actually its been pretty calm, all things considered. Mostly people just pointing out Bioware writes war stories involving soldiers and you don't find obese soldiers.
But there is the token "Yes I did!" "No you didn't!" quote wars than accompany every Escapist topic.

You usually don't find soldiers who have soldier length hair that they let down during battle or cleavage windows either. That didn't seem to stop Bioware.

People seem to get really freaking selective when they criticize a lack of realism.

Thing is, both of those have sorta become mainstays of fantasy, whether or not something has them isn't really questioned anymore, it's more an aesthetic than anything else. Hell, people threw a fit over Divinity's homage to that by sending the dev team crap to their houses over the fucking boob plate for crissakes until they changed it, and then made fun of them because they "had to be shown the correct way to treat women".

Hell, alot of the problems stem from Bioware saying Dragon Age is a dark fantasy world and then doing high fantasy stories. The closest they got was the Loghain plot in Origins and some of the stuff leading up to Isabella's backstabbing bitchiness and the Arishok in DA2.

 

[Something Amyss]

NUH UH I'M RIGHT!

The only way your claim works is if I wasn't talking about the exact standards I was talking about. You acknowledging them previously only demonstrates my point. Trying to reduce that to "nuh uh" to make both parties look accountable is simply not true.

I specified exactly who I was talking about. You tried to turn this into a defense of fat people being better fighters or something. Don't pretend otherwise.

 

[The Almighty Aardvark]

It's also sorta nonsensical to say that there should be overweight characters when 80% of the time, you're literally running around with your group, that keeps off quite a bit of weight by itself, not to mention even mages have INCREDIBLY complex body movements to cast their spells in the DA world.

Even if you take off the non-canon running around of you getting lost or looking around, it's still quite a bit of it in each game, Inquisition more than all of the rest combined I'd bet.

Don't they chiefly travel around on a caravan in Dragon Age? At least that's what I've always assumed, given the amount of supplies they set up their camp with. As well as how in the first game you have the traders following you with a wagon. For the rest of it, I've known plenty of hikers who still carry a lot of weight.

I am not totally sure where they mention the complexity of the body movements in Dragon Age to cast spells, that must have been in some of the supplementary lore. But you don't need to be skinny to have coordination. Sure it might help, but I imagine it's easier to do with some extra weight than it is as a 70 year old with arthritis.

And back we come to the crapfest that is Dragon Age anymore. I don't think that lgbtqrstuv characters are the main reason for Bioware's decline, that's sorta more reserved for their senior writing staff being replaced with their understudies before ME3 and a lack of people being able to say "NO" if they aren't friends with some of the lead designers.

To a point, I would say they're more a symptom than a reason for their decline as well. Not saying they're unwelcome, just they rely more on archetypes and stereotyping for character writing anymore and the problem's just exasperated with their "progressive" characters because every character has a central theme and more often than not their 'I'm not straight" beacon is it rather than anything else about them. Alisair's the funny guy with a troubled past, Morrigan's the ***** with a soft side, Wynn's your granny, and Leliana's the useless bi-girl(though to be fair, this is mostly because of how the game was set up with gear and such for rogues that weren't the PC, in which case you were broken as all hell)

You're not being fair to Leliana, the bisexuality barely came up. Her relationship with the church of Andraste defined her a lot more than her sexuality ever did. I didn't like her as much as Alistair or Morrigan, she wasn't as entertaining of a character, but she had a fair bit of depth to her. At least more than you're giving her credit for.

Though, comparing her to Wynne? I thought that Leliana had far more personality than her, even if you cut out every reference they make to her sexuality. Wynne was disappointingly dry.

And exactly how is the LGBT stuff in the lore? Everyone else I've argued with over this point has said that it wasn't in the lore because it doesn't need to explain why. I'd really love to have an actual answer that wasn't dismissive for once on this issue. The closest I remember is honestly the Andraste stuff.

Someone posted something in a previous thread that discussed each of the provinces and their views on same sex relations. I think this was the one: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Sexuality_in_Thedas

 

[Sniper Team 4]

So...just glancing through some of the comments on the first page, I get the feeling that some people didn't actually read the article? And the fact that this is the highest comment count on one of Liana's articles makes me believe that even more.

Samwise in Lord of the Rings wasn't ripped. He was a bit on the husky side and he did just fine. So yeah, there can be women who go on adventures and quests that aren't rocking the super model look.


But I'm curious what Liana's take on Krem would be. She is a female, but she identifies as a male. Because of that, she didn't look like the traditional "girl" in Dragon Age: Inquisition. Of course, since she is, for all intents and purposes, a male, she might not count, but still. I'd like to know where she falls.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

This is """""plus-sized""""" Liana Kerzner.

Spoiler

She has the body type of every female videogame character ever made. Her personal lament is completely uncalled for. It's like having The Rock complain he can't cosplay as any Gears of War characters.

I'm not sure how to phrase this politely, but both pictures you used were taken some time ago, and Liana's structure is a little different these days. I'm not sure where to find a full body shot, but you can get a decent idea from watching the cosplay videos that she's not built like a 22-year-old anymore. Still a good looking woman, but not a Dead or Alive character.

I too don't know how to put this politely, but just because she can't keep her figure doesn't mean Morrigan shouldn't either. Or that videogame characters should accomodate you in your insecurities, for that matter. Nobody owes you, the hypothetical gamer, the right to dress up as a character and look good in it.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I think we have enough beautiful people already.

This is """""plus-sized""""" Liana Kerzner.

She has the body type of every female videogame character ever made. Her personal lament is completely uncalled for. It's like having The Rock complain he can't cosplay as any Gears of War characters.

How can Liana Kerzner, a female gamer, have the body type of every female video game character ever made when the body type of every female video game character ever made are unrealistic and non-representative of female gamers?

Did not follow that all.
My point is, nobody owes anybody the right to not make a fool of yourself when you dress up as any character in any game. I don't have the right to get angry at A) Capcom because B) Wesker isn't C) Blonde enough for D) Me.

 

[Redryhno]

It's also sorta nonsensical to say that there should be overweight characters when 80% of the time, you're literally running around with your group, that keeps off quite a bit of weight by itself, not to mention even mages have INCREDIBLY complex body movements to cast their spells in the DA world.

Even if you take off the non-canon running around of you getting lost or looking around, it's still quite a bit of it in each game, Inquisition more than all of the rest combined I'd bet.

Don't they chiefly travel around on a caravan in Dragon Age? At least that's what I've always assumed, given the amount of supplies they set up their camp with. As well as how in the first game you have the traders following you with a wagon. For the rest of it, I've known plenty of hikers who still carry a lot of weight.

I am not totally sure where they mention the complexity of the body movements in Dragon Age to cast spells, that must have been in some of the supplementary lore. But you don't need to be skinny to have coordination. Sure it might help, but I imagine it's easier to do with some extra weight than it is as a 70 year old with arthritis.

And back we come to the crapfest that is Dragon Age anymore. I don't think that lgbtqrstuv characters are the main reason for Bioware's decline, that's sorta more reserved for their senior writing staff being replaced with their understudies before ME3 and a lack of people being able to say "NO" if they aren't friends with some of the lead designers.

To a point, I would say they're more a symptom than a reason for their decline as well. Not saying they're unwelcome, just they rely more on archetypes and stereotyping for character writing anymore and the problem's just exasperated with their "progressive" characters because every character has a central theme and more often than not their 'I'm not straight" beacon is it rather than anything else about them. Alisair's the funny guy with a troubled past, Morrigan's the ***** with a soft side, Wynn's your granny, and Leliana's the useless bi-girl(though to be fair, this is mostly because of how the game was set up with gear and such for rogues that weren't the PC, in which case you were broken as all hell)

You're not being fair to Leliana, the bisexuality barely came up. Her relationship with the church of Andraste defined her a lot more than her sexuality ever did. I didn't like her as much as Alistair or Morrigan, she wasn't as entertaining of a character, but she had a fair bit of depth to her. At least more than you're giving her credit for.

And exactly how is the LGBT stuff in the lore? Everyone else I've argued with over this point has said that it wasn't in the lore because it doesn't need to explain why. I'd really love to have an actual answer that wasn't dismissive for once on this issue. The closest I remember is honestly the Andraste stuff.

Someone posted something in a previous thread that discussed each of the provinces and their views on same sex relations. I think this was the one: http://dragonage.wikia.com/wiki/Codex_entry:_Sexuality_in_Thedas

Yeah I probably am, but Leliana is just so useless(also has an accent I just loathe) that I just barely used her or talked to her, but I will have to argue against it as the series progressed, her chantry times sorta get pushed to the back burner in favor of her past, particularly her lezzie Bard times become more important. Though admittedly slightly more on the Bard than the lezzie part.

Also, it's nice to have someone link something instead of saying "IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE EXPLAINED SO THERE ISN'T ANYTHING". Still a bit of a cop-out, but at least there's a paragraph somewhere. I just wasn't able to play Inquisition anymore after a few hours and got through some of the Iron Bull stuff before I just couldn't play it anymore(I just can't play MMOs, never have been able to, tedium and boredom takes over) Never got to where that tidbit drops.