Bioware Says Anthem is "Science Fantasy" Like Star Wars, Not Hardcore Sci-Fi

[ffronw]

Bioware Says Anthem is "Science Fantasy" Like Star Wars, Not Hardcore Sci-Fi

//cdn.themis-media.com/media/global/images/library/deriv/1416/1416032.jpgAnthem isn't hard sci-fi, Bioware says. It's more "science fantasy," like Star Wars.

Ever since Bioware announced Anthem at E3 this year, people have been talking about it. It's been compared to Destiny, called a sci-fi game, an MMO, and more. But Bioware wants gamers to know that Anthem won't be hard sci-fi like Mass Effect. Instead, it's calling the game "science fantasy," and likening it to Star Wars.

The clarification comes in an interview with CBC program Edmonton AM [http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/programs/edmontonam], in which Bioware general manager Aaryn Flynn describes Anthem as "a genre we call science fantasy very much like Star Wars, very much like the Marvel universe." He says the fantasy part happens when "you see a lot of amazing things happening but we don't worry too much about why they're happening or how they're happening, the science of it."

Flynn also briefly talked about the gameplay in Anthem, saying, "there are shooting mechanics in it, it's an action game, it's a role playing game. It's got a lot of those elements to it that let you become a character and participate in this."

Anthem is slated for a Fall 2018 release. EA says that the game will be "maybe a ten-year journey for us."





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[SlumlordThanatos]

Ten years?

Unless God Himself descends from the heavens and declared Anthem to be The Greatest Game of All Time, it probably won't even be relevant two years after launch.

But in all honestly, it will depend on how good the game is...and how good Destiny 2 will be by comparison.

And even though Destiny was a pretty big letdown, I have a lot more faith in Bungie than I do in Bioware these days.

 

[Neurotic Void Melody]

Can't help but feel that's the lazy option for writing sci-fi. Good to know they're putting in equal effort for story as Bungie did with destiny with the same ambition to stretch out a paper thin plot over years with no real end intended. I hate sounding cynical for this, but it just feels like such a wasted opportunity. We need more sci-fi that aren't tiresome grind-fests designed in a way that makes the beauty of exploring unknown world's and creatures into a repetitive slog. An adventure with memorable characters, actual pacing with plot, no micro-managing endless numbers of gear that all looks the same and stat-scaling enemies looping like groundhog day with no real goals of their own but to politely wait for your awesomeness to appear and buff your stats with their timely - but ultimately meaningless deaths.

 

[TilMorrow]

I was going to say what's the difference but then I realised what they mean is that there will be less codex entries popping on the screen and a lot more hand waving and "things are/work just like that so deal with it". Okay cool but that stills tells us nothing about the actual substance of the game aside from "we're not justifying why they have mech suits" or how they work.

But hey look at that, they're not disputing the Destiny and MMO comparisons. Great... -_-

Flynn also briefly talked about the gameplay in Anthem, saying, "there are shooting mechanics in it, it's an action game, it's a role playing game. It's got a lot of those elements to it that let you become a character and participate in this."

Well the trailer showed shootbangs, jumping around (and on-rails jetpacks) as well as suggested character abilities and lewt drops so those have been covered already, the most important question now is there anything else to it apart from it being Titanfall meets Destiny.

 

[Arnoxthe1]

To be fair, I think everyone's being a bit harsh. Fantasy and Sci-fi together makes for an awesome setting. I don't understand why we're bashing this when both Unreal and Unreal Tournament had just such a setting. And it worked incredibly. Or how about the Shadowrun universe?

Having said that though, oh great. Diablo style loot. I'm so excited... >_>

 

[Anti-American Eagle]

As if this wasn't obvious.
As if this wasn't just EA trying to pull a Destiny out of their ass.

 

[Chronologist]

Science Fantasy, huh? So for Bioware the big takeaway from the ending of Mass Effect was "Hey, people loved this inexplicable nonsensical space magic handwaving we pulled off, lets do MORE of that!"

I didn't buy Andromeda and I probably won't buy this.

 

[Ukomba]

Bioware... -_- ...Mass Effect is NOT hard sci-fi. You might be able to get away with calling it soft sci-fi, but in reality it's just as Science Fantasy as Star Wars is.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

Bioware... -_- ...Mass Effect is NOT hard sci-fi. You might be able to get away with calling it soft sci-fi, but in reality it's just as Science Fantasy as Star Wars is.

I dimly recall we profoundly disagree on a whole bunch of topics, but yeah, Mass Effect wasn't even close to hard sci-fi. A few moments of Anthem reveals it's in a very similar soft sci-fi/sci-fantasy territory as ME.

That said, did BioWare actually try to suggest ME was anything different, or is this just wording from the OP?

Ah, the original quote/reference [http://www.pcgamer.com/bioware-boss-says-anthem-is-science-fantasy-like-star-wars-or-the-marvel-universe/]:

"Mass Effect is more our real hardcore science fiction IP. This one is much more about just having fun in a game world that is lush and exotic and really sucks you in."

Hard, soft, fantasy - I still loved Mass Effect, and I still couldn't give a stuff about Anthem (based on what we've seen and heard).

 

[Fdzzaigl]

We haven't seen or heard much at all given that it's still pretty far away. The Bioware bashing is tiresome, judge a game based on the value when played and before that ask concrete questions regardless of brand name.

So far for me:
Pros: apparent level verticality, graphics, gameplay seen so far
Cons: Apparently RNG loot, hub based

More than that honestly I can't judge.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

Well, of course it's science fantasy. They played Destiny and went "hey, how cool would it be if we had Iron Man suits in this game?" And Destiny is science fantasy, so...

It's also a little dumb to make the distinction, because Mass Effect was basically science fantasy as well. It grounded the fantastical elements in a set of defined in-universe rules - at least until the end of ME3 - but in practice, the titular mass effect was just magic by another name. The technological powers weren't much different. I remember the Infiltrator in ME2 had a tech power that was basically a fireball.

tl;dr - still looking forward to Anthem at the moment because it looks like third-person Destiny with Iron Man suits, and that's something I can get behind. More importantly, it's something I can get my friends behind, most of whom don't want to buy a console to play Destiny because it's an FPS on a console. A TPS on a console is a different story.

 

[Darth Rosenberg]

I'd consider Mass Effect harder than most on the Sci-fi scale(at least like..star wars and such), at least in terms of the One Big Lie [http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Mohs/OneBigLie]. Everything in the Mass Effect universe works just like it does in real life (baring aliens) EXCEPT element zero, which negates mass. With every break from reality (FTL travel, biotics, flying cars etc) being made from that one exception to the universe

Sound in space and applied thrust (e.g. whenever the Normandy pitches or rolls) with no point of thrust present are explained by that "one exception"? Colour me entirely unconvinced...

If something like Denis Villeneuve's Arrival or Arthur C.Clarke's Rendezvous With Rama would be close to the hard sci-fi end of the spectrum, ME's with Star Wars and Guardians Of The Galaxy at the opposite end. My profile pic's from Interstellar, and that's an interesting example as it showcases both ends of the spectrum (Kip Thorne's book on its science is a great read and a great companionpiece to the film).

Btw, I don't think labels are at all useful or overly constructive. But if someone calls Mass Effect "hard" sci-fi, then yeah, I take issue with that given what that's then ultimately intentionally comparing it to (things that ideally don't violate the most basic laws, impose sound in a vacuum, and so on).

 

[DaCosta]

tl;dr - still looking forward to Anthem at the moment because it looks like third-person Destiny with Iron Man suits, and that's something I can get behind. More importantly, it's something I can get my friends behind, most of whom don't want to buy a console to play Destiny because it's an FPS on a console. A TPS on a console is a different story.

Lucky for your friends Destiny 2 is going to be an FPS on PC this time around.

That's what I'm going to buy. I stayed away from the first Destiny because I didn't want to play an FPS with a gamepad either. Plus, I hate the current trend of the first game in a franchise being a glorified proof of concept and the sequel being what the game the original should have been in the first place. This means after the first Destiny being apparently pretty underwhelming, I actually have faith in the sequel being pretty good. Following that logic, I doubt Anthem is going to be very good, but Anthem 2 might be. Unless it truly only comes 10 years later, in which case it would hardly matter.

 

[bastardofmelbourne]

tl;dr - still looking forward to Anthem at the moment because it looks like third-person Destiny with Iron Man suits, and that's something I can get behind. More importantly, it's something I can get my friends behind, most of whom don't want to buy a console to play Destiny because it's an FPS on a console. A TPS on a console is a different story.

Lucky for your friends Destiny 2 is going to be an FPS on PC this time around.

No, no no no. You don't understand.

1. I can't afford a computer that can run Destiny 2.
2. I already own a Playstation.

I want them to get into Anthem, because I can convince them to buy a Playstation, and then once they have the Playstation I can try and convince them to get Destiny.

On an unrelated note: weirdly, I lack confidence in Bioware's ability to deliver an engaging story with their video game, or at least one more engaging than Destiny's. Destiny had a brilliant, evocative, thought-provoking storyline, but Bungie made the rookie error of putting it on the website instead of in the game. The game itself was a series of random events; the website with the grimoire cards was a sci-fi masterpiece, where superpowered revenants fight alien gods using weaponised philosophy.

 

[Hawki]

Anthem isn't hard sci-fi, Bioware says. It's more "science fantasy," like Star Wars.

Objection!

...Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fantasy. Something completely different. ;p

"there are shooting mechanics in it, it's an action game, it's a role playing game. It's got a lot of those elements to it that let you become a character and participate in this."

Just call it an ARPG you twats.

Can't help but feel that's the lazy option for writing sci-fi.

Disagree. It's science fantasy, not science fiction. One shouldn't judge the standards of one genre by the standards of another.

To be fair, I think everyone's being a bit harsh. Fantasy and Sci-fi together makes for an awesome setting. I don't understand why we're bashing this when both Unreal and Unreal Tournament had just such a setting. And it worked incredibly. Or how about the Shadowrun universe?

I think the main reason is that it's because of the following:

-People dislike BioWare nowadays. I can't comment if that's justified (only played 3 of their games, only one of them to completion), but it seems to be a trend.

-The majority of BioWare's roster is RPGs in fantasy or sci-fi settings. Exceptions exist of course (e.g. TOR), but when you have a sci-fa ARPG, well, if you're a BioWare fan, you're shifting in fictional and mechanical genre. People tend to get uppity about these things.

-At least for me, the gameplay looks boring, and there's a sense of corporate mandate around it. Is this game created because BioWare wanted to create it, or because EA wanted a game to compete with Destiny? Speaking personally, the mechanics of Anthem look boring, the world could be interesting, but I can't go on these forums without people bashing BioWare. And heck, I'm not even that much of a fan of BioWare, but it does get tiring enough to prompt me to play devil's advocate sometimes.

Bioware... -_- ...Mass Effect is NOT hard sci-fi. You might be able to get away with calling it soft sci-fi, but in reality it's just as Science Fantasy as Star Wars is.

Mass Effect is nowhere near sci-fa, it's still sci-fi. Heck, Star Wars isn't even sci-fa, it's space fantasy.

Sci-fa operates on the primarily on the principle of combining tropes of the sci-fi and fantasy genres. Mass Effect's tropes are all sci-fi, acknowledging the laws of the universe, and bending those laws at will. There's a clear road from a to b that feels plausible, along with a focus on worldbuilding. Sci-fa can also operate on the principle of a to b, but Mass Effect is free of the tropes sci-fa usually incorporates.

If something like Denis Villeneuve's Arrival or Arthur C.Clarke's Rendezvous With Rama would be close to the hard sci-fi end of the spectrum, ME's with Star Wars and Guardians Of The Galaxy at the opposite end.

I'd still put Guardians and Star Wars in different areas of the spectrum. Guardians is sci-fa given its blase approach to science, but it still has linkage with the actual real world. As in, its premise operates on the idea that Earth exists, but it's all happening so far away from Earth that it barely matters. Star Wars though is full space fantasy. Fantasy can get away with generating a setting that has absolutely no relation to the real world, and Star Wars does that, unless we interpret the phrase "a long time ago in a galaxy far far away" as being literal, and not a reference to fairy tales. Star Wars's tropes also have far more in common with fantasy tropes than sci-fi ones. Sure, technology is used, but it's not the focus. The technology of Star Wars is static, and more a means of getting the protagonists from point a to point b.

My profile pic's from Interstellar, and that's an interesting example as it showcases both ends of the spectrum (Kip Thorne's book on its science is a great read and a great companionpiece to the film).

Um...how?

Even throwing aside how much I dislike Interstellar, everything in the film was more an exercise in hard sci-fi than anything else.

 

[Xeorm]

Sound in space and applied thrust (e.g. whenever the Normandy pitches or rolls) with no point of thrust present are explained by that "one exception"? Colour me entirely unconvinced...

If something like Denis Villeneuve's Arrival or Arthur C.Clarke's Rendezvous With Rama would be close to the hard sci-fi end of the spectrum, ME's with Star Wars and Guardians Of The Galaxy at the opposite end. My profile pic's from Interstellar, and that's an interesting example as it showcases both ends of the spectrum (Kip Thorne's book on its science is a great read and a great companionpiece to the film).

Btw, I don't think labels are at all useful or overly constructive. But if someone calls Mass Effect "hard" sci-fi, then yeah, I take issue with that given what that's then ultimately intentionally comparing it to (things that ideally don't violate the most basic laws, impose sound in a vacuum, and so on).

The first ME payed a lot of attention to the little details. Shields didn't block all damage, but worked similar to Dune's shields - anything going too fast was stopped, but slower things like the acid shots from the bugs and melee attacks went straight through the shields. Lasers were very rare because they didn't make as much sense in the setting. Only used as defenses against the slower attack craft and missiles that were designed to go through shields slowly without activating them. Until Sovereign comes along and uses fancy lasers that oh hey, the shields don't protect against. Seemed a nice extra bit.

And yes, movement of the ship was sort of explained. They used gravity manipulation to propel the ship. It wasn't elaborated much because a impulse-less drives aren't good for hard sci-fi, but that was their intention. I think it even more as a way to get stealth ship without long plumes of hot propellant out the back.

Realistically, it's about the best one is likely to get from a big budget production. Too many people without enough training in hard science to understand where they might get things wrong and where they can bend the science and too tough deadlines to redo it afterwards tends to leave small errors. But it was still quite good. Should, I think, be celebrated more for a higher standard than most fantasy scifi we tend to see.

Now, ME2 and on it's soft as any fantasy scifi. Mass effect technology is waved around like the force is in Star Wars.

 

[Dalisclock]

Didn't Destiny also say it was gonna be a 10 year thing?

And now Destiny 2 is coming out which will pretty much allow nothing from Destiny to carry over, thus pretty much abandoning Destiny?

So is Anthem the new Destiny?

If you say 10 years, you better commit to 10 years of support and not plop down a sequel in 3 years so you can let the first game rot on the vine as the player base migrates. Hell, spend the effort upgrading and expanding the base game you mentioned "10 years" for.

I'm not sure why this bothers me. I don't play multi-player open world games like this(or the division) so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I imagine if I was told "Hey, this game is going to get new content and support for 10 years", that's the standard I would hold them to. You know, actually hold companies accountable to what they promised.

 

[Hawki]

Didn't Destiny also say it was gonna be a 10 year thing?

And now Destiny 2 is coming out which will pretty much allow nothing from Destiny to carry over, thus pretty much abandoning Destiny?

Destiny the franchise, not Destiny the game. It was stated ages ago that there'd be a Destiny 2 & 3 long before the former was officially announced.

 

[Apothecary2]

Anthem isn't hard sci-fi, Bioware says. It's more "science fantasy," like Star Wars.

Objection!

...Star Wars is space fantasy, not science fantasy. Something completely different. ;p

"Space Fantasy" isn't a genre. Space is just a setting. Regardless, Star Wars is adequately described as Science Fantasy when both advanced technology and a vaguely supernatural force are required for the plot. Some implausible numbers doesn't change that.

If you want to define them by tropers then how do you describe works like "Nier" that are clear cut sci-fi deliberately disguising themselves as stereotypical fantasy?