BioWare Slays Dragon Age II Expansion

Korten12

Now I want ma...!
Aug 26, 2009
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Gunjester said:
Korten12 said:
Zeckt said:
Excellent news, as no one wants to continue on with a story they HATE. Mages templars, mages templars, mages templars ... NO THANK YOU!
They probably will be in the next game and be a big part. :D

OT: Aw... I would have bought it. D:
I'm hoping we get to visit the Quanari more, or maybe have a Chasind battle :D.
Though I disagree. If' Flemeth's plan is coming to fruition in DA3, Mages Templars will probably just be a side note, like in the first one.
I for one am eager to meet one of the "Old Gods". And kill one hopefully >:D. That, or to able to be a bard from day one of my adventure or maybe be a Rivani pirate! ARGH!
A side note..?

Thedas in in war now becuase of Mages and Templars, if it was a side note that would make no sense.
 

Danzavare

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[SPOILERS for DA:O and DA2)

Dragon Age 2 is the most disappointing game I've ever played. That's not to say it's not a good game. I probably wouldn't have wanted to finish it as a non-DA game either, but I wouldn't be as bitter about it if it wasn't meant to be the sequel to Dragon Age: Origins. Before I list off the reasons I didn't like DA2 I want to say that DA:O was a hard game for me to play. The mechanics of the game were difficult for me to adjust to at first and the overall game was really outside my playstyle. That being said, it ultimately won me over and moved me to love it for what it was. DA2 is probably the more accessible experience (To me as well) but DA:O is the better game.

My problems with DA2 are as follows:
~ DA2's dialogue wheel did not allow for the same flexible roleplay the written dialogue in DA:O did. Written text was usually accompanied by a slight expression and vocal reactions from NPCs. Even if 'how' my character said something was sometimes left to my imagination I still feel like I had a big shaping role in defining my character's interactions. The wheel kind of detached me from Hawke. I'd kind of nudge him in a general direction but would have little clue about what was to be said or how it'd be said.

I don't hate the wheel as a concept, I think it works in the semi-confined roleplay of Mass Effect but it felt jarring when coming from DA:O to DA2.

~ DA2 overly simplified and, to an extent, broke the roleplay feel that the first game had in terms of its relationships. One of the most memorable moments of DA:O was the point where Sten went from a closed and cold character I very much disliked to a more open and loyal (but still stoic) friend of mine. It felt like I had degrees of friendship and intimacy with the NPCs which made it feel more genuine than the polarised love-hate relationships of DA2. (and the degrees could lead to different epilogues I think) I like to play my character like a person, meaning that the 'good' or 'bad' choices are decided by my character's preferences, not by the wanting to accumulate 'good' or 'bad' points. It just means that I'm not always trying to either please or spite people. The problem is in order to keep a lot of the characters by the end of the game you need to either be fully fledged rivals (That is, be spiteful to them all the time) or bestest buddies foreverest (constantly try to please them). Anything in between generally means there's a good chance I'll be losing some characters (even if I'm leaning toward either rival or best friend). I really dislike that the game punishes you for playing a character with some balance in their personalities and interactions.

~ The years spent in Kirkwall felt arbitrary, like they were there for the benefit of the writers instead of the players. For the most part Kirkwall remained unchanged for me. Your first decision in joining the smugglers or mercenaries feels pretty arbitrary if you're forced to skip playing that role and just get told 'Yep, you were a good mercenary or smuggler'. It also frustrated me that over years in time Hawke for some reason allowed issues to go unchecked. The mages vs templars thing should've been addressed effectively and much earlier. I should have been able to pull that evil mirror away from Merill shortly after discovering. There were simply a lot of situations that I knew would get worse but because of the sudden lapses in years I felt powerless to do anything about them before it was too late. I get certain contexts restrict your ability to problem solve in games, but arbitrary time gaps just feel cheap and pull me out of the experience.

~ Recycled areas were a chore after a while, plain and simple.

~ The constant random ambushing by enemies made combat feel like magic spamming rather than a tactical game like DA:O. As someone unfamiliar with DA:O style combat, I enjoyed being able to figure out the winning strategy to kill a group of enemies that just previously wiped the floor with me. Combat just feels tedious because you're not giving the opportunity to think about battles. There is added difficulty in oncoming waves, but it's not satisfying beating them.

~ The templar vs mage story needed some middleground. There were opportunities to provide that (i.e. help the templars working with the mages) but for some reason they weren't granted. It's also hard to spend too much thought on the issue when your character is a mage.

~ Reduced skills weren't fun. (I miss my heavy armored Wynne.)

~ So far the references back to DA:O have been minimal and pretty uninteresting. I felt particularly upset at the fact that the game teases you with Flemeth at the beginning but for the vast majority of the game she is nowhere to be seen. Hawke may not have been at the events of DA:O but the players were. (And really, with a character import system you can't pretend like Bioware wasn't counting on a good portion of players to transition from DA:O to DA2) It was a lot harder to care about DA2's story knowing Flemeth was still alive. (Especially if you pursued that story route in DA:O)

Personally I hope DA3 is more akin to DA:O than DA2, but preordering and playing DA2 has thrown me off buying DA3 early. I'm happy with their decision to move on from DA2.

CAPTCHA: shakers and movers
 

Blood Brain Barrier

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Nov 21, 2011
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Considering how much of a departure DA2 was from DAO, it seems likely that DA3 will be closer to DAO than DA2. If that makes sense. Represented physically, if DAO was on one side of the universe, DA2 put itself on the opposite side. So in theory, if Bioware continues the trend, the next game should be catapaulted right back to where DAO is situated. Let's hope anyway.
 

Seydaman

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Nov 21, 2008
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Looking forward to it.

They need more magical abilities, and persuasion skills.

Don't forget MOOOARRRR Role-playing elements, bring on the interesting characters!
 

TheRealGoochman

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I will be super excited if it is Dragon Age 3. I sort of liked 2....and I would be VERY excited to see their next batch of games not just consist of Generals 2
 

beniki

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May 28, 2009
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Translation:

We decided to use the expansion pack as the next instalment in the game. It'll be done as soon as we've changed all the fonts and tweaked the colour palettes to make it look different, and then spent a few years on marketing and making trailers.

I have no idea if my cynical translation is true or not, but I've lost a lot of confidence in EA Bioware.

Catcha: cop an attitude

I certainly will.
 

Swiftkillz

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Sep 1, 2011
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Good. DAII was bad on every level.



But they will probably put the expansion in DA3

Mages and Templars again

Oh joy
 

Krantos

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Jun 30, 2009
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Anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that "Canceled" really means "Upgraded to a sequel."

I'm not saying that's what happened, but we've seen a number of times where a planned expansion is passed off as a sequel instead. Given the kind of business decisions BioWare has been making lately, it wouldn't surprise me.
 

cieply

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Oct 21, 2009
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GREATEST RPG SINCE BG2! Escapist told us, best thing since sliced bread!
11/10 story
12/10 gameplay
Streamlined, designed for wider audience, with wonderful grasping story and touching romances!
And now they canned the expansion?! How can it be!

I know Escapist had to praize it to get review copies for other EA games but god dammit, to proclaim it a great game? That's gaming journalism right there fokls, our beloved "press" that is just another tube for publishers to advertise. Last review I cared to see on this site, now it's just news and yahtzee + critical miss.

To all interested


Krantos said:
Anyone else have a sneaking suspicion that "Canceled" really means "Upgraded to a sequel."

I'm not saying that's what happened, but we've seen a number of times where a planned expansion is passed off as a sequel instead. Given the kind of business decisions BioWare has been making lately, it wouldn't surprise me.
Not After ME3 tanking so hard (20$ price cut after 2 weeks and amazon giving refunds to people who even opened the box) and old republic slowly dying (albeit slower than expected, still free week, then extension of a free week)

The thing is Bioware always believed with a startling conviction that their fans will never abbandon them, no matter "streamiling" and "getting call of duty audience" and now that even their most loyal fans are rebelling, they realized they are in trouble. More importantly, EA realized the same, and now that their wallets are hurting, they will not risk an expansion to a franchise that now is almost universally despised. That's too risky, and BW ran out of IPs they can easily milk. Now the question is whether or not they will realize they are making RPGs for a fairly niche group or will they continue aiming for the jackpot in form of CoD audience and their money.
 

Furism

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Sep 10, 2009
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TheRookie8 said:
USE RECKONING'S COMBAT MECHANICS!!! This game has revolutionized RPG combat, it simply lacks the character depth and story of Dragon Age. Putting the best of these two games together ensures a massive success!!
What the hell are you talking about. Dragon Age has always been presented as a cRPG, a "Baldur's Gates hommage." Reckoning is a beat'em all with RPG elements. Two totally different gameplays. One is dice-based, the other one is twitch based.

Doing what you say would be the worst thing to happen to RPGs. See, old farts like me (and I'm just 29 years old) like "old school" RPGs where you have a high difficulty, where you can pause, think about tactics, where friendly fire is on, etc... DA1 has been the only major one like this since NWN2, which was not as good.

You were right however that the bigger issue with DA2 was the ludicrous re-use of assets (dungeons). The second worse part was that they removed the Tactical View and only kept the Third Person one. The third was the dumb waves during the fights, nullifying any tactic you could come up with. The last was the very bad story arc.

The good points were the update and fine tuning of the skills from DA1, and the dialogues.
 

SageRuffin

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Dec 19, 2009
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Ah, poo. I actually might've liked to slaughter scores of overzealous religious radicals experience a so-called "Exalted March".

And for the record, I'll agree that Origins was better in terms of story-telling and overall package, not so much in terms of combat (then again, I'm an action-gamer, so to speak. gimme Ninja Gaiden or Devil May Cry over, say, Portal 2 or Heavy Rain any day).
 

SageRuffin

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Dec 19, 2009
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Furism said:
Doing what you say would be the worst thing to happen to RPGs. See, old farts like me (and I'm just 29 years old) like "old school" RPGs where you have a high difficulty, where you can pause, think about tactics, where friendly fire is on, etc... DA1 has been the only major one like this since NWN2, which was not as good.

You were right however that the bigger issue with DA2 was the ludicrous re-use of assets (dungeons). The second worse part was that they removed the Tactical View and only kept the Third Person one. The third was the dumb waves during the fights, nullifying any tactic you could come up with.
Wow... you don't play a lot of action and/or fighting games, do you?
 

Faerillis

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Oct 29, 2009
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If they improved combat to be at all worthwhile, I'd probably have gotten this. Dragon Age 2 had solid characters, and a good story (even if they did wander away from player choice meaning anything in Act 3).
 

A Weakgeek

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I guess thats cool for those who liked DA2. I used to want Bioware to make a new KotOR, but seeing their new games I knew it would just blow, so I've given up. Just like DA3 will be a horrible piece of streamlined poop.
 

DRTJR

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Here is my take on it. It saddens me, Being called the Exalted march would imply that the chantry was going to do one on Kirckwall like it was said they were tempted to do in the Exiled Prince[Sebass' DLC] DLC. I would have bought it. DA2's DLC was actually IMHO really good and had some really great character moments.
 

Faerillis

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A Weakgeek said:
I guess thats cool for those who liked DA2. I used to want Bioware to make a new KotOR, but seeing their new games I knew it would just blow, so I've given up. Just like DA3 will be a horrible piece of streamlined poop.
I almost don't want to respond to this, but I can't just leave that be. Streamlined is more often good than bad. Was Dragon Age 2 streamlined? Not really, it was a complete overhaul. Was it bad? Yes. Mass Effect 2 was streamlined, but while armour customization was way down, the gameplay was much, much better. Mass Effect 3, still lacking the armour customization, was even better gameplay-wise ? even if the ending blows chunks.

Games evolve, old systems get new features added and systems that were kept around to deal with low processing power. This is how it is, and how it should be.

malakaira said:
good ridance dragon age 2 was pumped full of way to much DLC
There were plenty of reasons to dislike Dragon Age 2, but the DLC was minimal. You had one, uninteresting character that a lot of people got for free and two $10 missions... that I haven't played yet so I can hardly judge. There were some equipment packs, but they were just equipment. Origins had a lot more DLC than that.
 

A Weakgeek

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Faerillis said:
A Weakgeek said:
I guess thats cool for those who liked DA2. I used to want Bioware to make a new KotOR, but seeing their new games I knew it would just blow, so I've given up. Just like DA3 will be a horrible piece of streamlined poop.
I almost don't want to respond to this, but I can't just leave that be. Streamlined is more often good than bad. Was Dragon Age 2 streamlined? Not really, it was a complete overhaul. Was it bad? Yes. Mass Effect 2 was streamlined, but while armour customization was way down, the gameplay was much, much better. Mass Effect 3, still lacking the armour customization, was even better gameplay-wise ? even if the ending blows chunks.

Games evolve, old systems get new features added and systems that were kept around to deal with low processing power. This is how it is, and how it should be.
It doesn't matter if you call it "streamlined" or a "complete overhaul", It blew anyways. As for Masseffect 1 vs 2, I disagree. While the first one had alot of fucking around with the menu system it was easy enough to complete without changing equippement constantly. In ME2 you had about 2 of each different guns, which were still really similar. (One would think that you'd atleast make the 2 different) Also having to play a stupid minigame, that doesnt relate to the rest of the game at all, to get upgrades was stupid.