In this particular case I dont see that it matters, the source material isn't exactly widely known. Yes its a little striking to have a god of one of the fairest skinned people on earth as a full on black dude, a little out of place perhaps, but its all good in the realm of comics/fantasy.. its not a academically accurate portrayal of norse mythology after all.
I haven't seen Thor yet, but really, why is it when anyone questions the choice of actors for a role (and its given to a black person), they suddenly become KKK loving racists?
It is because of the incredibly stupid politically correct culture that has been built up around other races to "champion equality" and to "combat against racism", but what they are doing is just pissing people off and actually hurting their cause by keeping on opening wounds that should have healed a long time ago, but because they won't stop scratching the wounds, the wounds won't heal and sometimes the wound gets worse.
I'm all for equality, but people must be mature about the situation to get it. If other races want to be seen as equals, to be put under the banner of "just like anybody else", then they have to stop crying foul over every single little thing.
It has gotten so out of hand, other races can call out racist, but whites can't. If a bunch of white guys beat up a black guy because they want money or something he has on him, it doesn't matter what was said or done, it would be labeled as a racial hate crime. But if a bunch of black guys do the same to a white guy, it's just a crime committed by some troubled youths that haven't had the proper guidance.
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People on this movie subject matter were talking about the source material, which is a very important thing. If the source material shows a character as of a certain race, than the person cast for that part should be of that race. I didn't see blatant changes in the other movies out so far that are the lead ups to The Avengers.
If they are going to make blatant changes, blatantly change it all. Make Iron Man's armor green and make him an Asian technology mogul, make the Hulk Spanish and instead of green he turns red, and instead of Captain America, change it to Captain Canada, he wears an all white suit with a big red C on the front and he has a shield that is all white with a red maple leaf in the center, oh and Nick Fury can be a mutant space hamster.
Okay, back to what I was saying. If you want things to die down and racism to became a thing of the past, stop making a big deal out of every little thing.
Way too much thought is placed on the race of a person. Like people like me being called racist because we didn't like the policy laws that Obama was going to try and put into place if he got elected. Because oh no, we can't possibly not like him because of his policies and thoughts on how to run the country. The only thing we could be is racist. And on top of that, the black people that were against Obama, they were pointed out as traitors to their race.
Also how the minute I talk about my views on securing and having border security to stop illegals coming to the my country, the rebuttal I get is that my argument is invalid because I'm some heartless guy who is a Mexican hater. The problem with that is in my entire argument about the illegals, not once did I say Mexicans, because I know there are illegals of pretty much every race and nationality coming here.
Everybody is so quick to cry racist, bigot, or whatever. The way for all this nonsense to go away and other races to be seen as equals is to just ignore it.
I haven't read all these pages so I don't know of this has been posted or not so, here it is.
Yes this is an awesome idea. There is no need for it. Everybody else has history, but they don't get special months. The only time when one should refer to race is in everyday descriptions that are necessary like what did the perpetrator of the crime look like so we can catch him or her. Or if one writes a story and the writer has a certain race in mind for the part. Stuff like that.
And on the writing thing, that is what this whole point is about, source material. If people are going to make something from source material and they change things, put a disclaimer, give it a title that points out it is in no way solely based on the source material.
With this situation, I guarantee that the actual amount of people that were being racist about this were incredibly small, most likely not even noticeable if one applied easy ignoring tactics. Just pay attention to the people that have a real and valid reason for complaining, source material. Just because the material is fictional, doesn't make blatantly changing it okay.
If anybody out there knows me, they know I am a stickler for source material. That if anytime in the future, if I have published some books, I am approached by somebody that wants to turn one of my book series into a movie, knowing how Hollywood likes churn out travesty after travesty when it comes to source material, I would have to have majority control over the movie. I would be picky right down to the exact thing they are wearing if I described it and what they looked like, that is how it would be in the movie. If the woman has red hair, the person cast has to have red hair, blonde cast a blonde, white person cast white person, black cast black, Italian cast Italian. I don't care if the person you have in mind is perfect for the part acting wise, if they don't fit the part and description, they aren't to be in it. If a person dies at a certain point in the plot, that is when they are going to die.
If you want to really see what I am talking about with Hollywood being morons with source material, read "Eragon" and at least the second book in that trilogy "Eldest", then watch the movie "Eragon". They pissed on the source material so badly that if they want to make the next book into a movie, they will have to first remake the first one again so things will actually make sense and fit. They should have just titled it "Dragon Rider", just so people would know that they were screwing around and blatantly ignoring source material.
While I agree that dropping Black History Month would be a good idea, and that making sure school curriculum covers every bit of history more fairly...
Saying that you can stop racism by ignoring it is about the most misinformed argument I've ever heard.
As far as the movie is concerned: people need to stop being so attached to fictional material. Also, the movie doesn't exactly look great, but I'm going to see it because of this casting. That also happens to be the exact opposite reason for why I didn't go see The Last Airbender.
Um, so how come it's "whitewashing" (i.e. racist) to cast white actors as characters of other ethnicities but doing the opposite is apparently striking a blow against racism? Hypocrisy?
Don't really care that much about this particular case though, just think its nonsense to argue that one is permissible while the other is not.
The thread title is loaded.
The posters own opinions are coming through to strong for a fair discussion.
I'll just say this. The word Racist is being thrown around WAY to much lately, and it cheapens it for when it really should be used.
To argue that Mr Elba is un-suited for the role due to skin colour is a legitimate concern.
Its also fair to argue that he is suitable.
I'd argue he is not suited for the role for the same reason that someone with blond hair would not suit the role of say, Harry Potter.
I could deal with it, and get used to it. But it would be distracting. Not a movie killer by any means, just weird.
It does take place in Space, and the "Gods" are aliens, so its not that it doesn't make sense per say, but it's an odd choices, considering these are supposed to be based off Scandinavian Gods and it also clashes with the comic from what I've heard.
Consider if they had chosen a White man to play an African god.
The same group of knee jerk defenders of Mr Elba's selection would be calling the studio racist over the unfortunate implications and I'd agree with them that the studio was Whitewashing in order to make it more marketable.
And besides, there is probably about 0.01% of people who are against his selection as Heimdall for racist reasons.
This whole thing got blown out of proportion when people starting calling each other racist, and media outlets made a whole bloody "story" out of it.
As a note though, Mr Elba was very good in his role and got some of the best laughs in the whole film. Sadly I suspect the studio choose him for marketing reasons, and were just lucky he happens to be a very talented actor.
One thing that's got me confused in this whole argument though...
I'm no expert on Norse mythology...but whats an Asian man doing there?
Again, not sure about whether this is in the comics or not, but I wonder whether the studio was worried about how marketable the movie would be to a non-white audience, rather then picking the most suitable cast for the role.
Just pretty much same old Hollywood studio bull shit that all adaptations suffer from.
If the subject wasn't race, this would have been forgotten by now.
My personal opinion is that if characters in a movie are based off of fictional characters whether it be comic books or mythology, then it is okay to cast male or female or black or white or any other ethnicity in the role. It doesn't really matter because it is only entertainment and people are just people. There is no need for characters to be set in stone. The more the lines are blurred between cultures the better, so we won't have to have these kinds of heated discussions that can divide people.
Just to touch on this. He's not actually Aesir, (The rest of the Asgardians are) he's generally drawn to resemble someone of the Mongol race. His homelands were destroyed and he found a new home amongst the Aesir.
Hogun (The Asian man) is an invention for the comics and not based on Norse mythology.
I find this whole thing ridiculous, people complained because an African-American played a Norse god, and that it wasn't true to the source material?
Very little about Thor is true to the source material.
I could understand die hard fans being a little ticked a black guy playing a white guy in the books/whatever. Just in the sense of keeping it true to the original stuff but it's not a huge deal.
It's like being pissed off that they put a ginger haired guy in, instead of blonde guy or something.
Well that's unfortunate. I saw the film a few weeks ago with a friend, and neither of us being knowledgable about Marvel comics we both had a great time.
When it came to Heimdall I knew they'd gone off-canon with his skin-colour but beyond that the actor gave a genuinely good performance and he was a great character. I suppose at the end of the day skin-colour should be your last concern when seeing a super-hero action movie about sci-fi Norse gods, but oh well...
The part that gets me is that Heimdall is the brother of Sif. You know the white girl with the sword and shield. Changing a well established character in both mythology and in Marvel comics for a movie is a very slippery slope and they should have expected a backlash. These characters have history that you need to respect. You shouldn't white wash a character or black wash one either and if you do at least keep it consistent. If Heimdall was black, Sif should have been cast black or at least mixed. The fact that Sif didn't try to convince her brother to let them pass was somewhat of annoyance as well. Obviously the writers and director didn't do their homework and the movie suffered a little because of it. The black guy who played Heimdall did a good job, I got a real good sense of the honor and some serious power rolling off the guy, but that doesn't excuse the changes. This was a pointless move that showed an extreme lack of tact on the part of the director.
so, i just got back from seeing THOR, and it was soooooo amazing! Idris was fantastic as Heimdall, i can understand how diehard fans of thor would be upset about this but don't let that stop you from seeing it as well.
Just to touch on this. He's not actually Aesir, (The rest of the Asgardians are) he's generally drawn to resemble someone of the Mongol race. His homelands were destroyed and he found a new home amongst the Aesir.
Hogun (The Asian man) is an invention for the comics and not based on Norse mythology.
Well, as long as people are complaining... why the hell is Volstagg so thin? He should be morbidly obese, everybody knows that. Oh, and Fandral parts his hair on the right, duh!
Black Thor Actor Talks About Racist Comic Book Fans
Magic and monsters are fine, but a black guy playing a Norse god? That's taking things too far.
Idris Elba, who plays Heimdall in Marvel's Thor movie, has spoken about the backlash caused by the casting of a black actor as a Norse god. Elba's casting has infuriated a number of groups who feel it is insulting to have a person of color playing a figure often referred to as the "Whitest of the Gods."
Elba indicated that complaints about his casting came in two types: There were the purist comic books fans who were upset about the changes made to the canon - Heimdall [http://marvel.com/universe/Heimdall] is depicted as white in the comics - and then there were others whose complaints were solely motivated by race. He was reluctant to speak about it too much though, as he didn't want to fuel the issue. Ultimately, he said, if people didn't like the casting decisions, they should just stay at home and not see the movie.
Sadly, the fan backlash against Elba's casting is not a new phenomenon - Penny Arcade tackled it in a comic [http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2010/12/20/] late last year - and it isn't the first time that Elba has talked about it. Just over a year ago, he said that Thor had so many fantastical elements that he was amazed that anyone would pay attention to the color of his skin. He acknowledged that he didn't really look like the traditional image of a Scandinavian, but said that in future there would be more diversity in Hollywood casting. "I was cast in Thor and I'm cast as a Nordic god," he said. "If you know anything about the Nords, they don't look like me but there you go. I think that's a sign of the times for the future. I think we will see multi-level casting. I think we will see that, and I think that's good."
Unfortunately, that's not an opinion shared by his detractors. Some [http://boycott-thor.com/] of the Elba's staunchest - although ostensibly not racially motivated - opponents accuse Marvel of left-wing social engineering, noting that it attacked the Tea Party movement in a recent issue of Captain America, and that Stan Lee is known to support left-wing politicians. Other [http://www.stormfront.org/forum/t703651/] complainants, who are more directly racist, talk about the "filthy culture of judaism [sic]" and how Elba's casting is an attack on "White Culture." While the latter accusation is both disgusting and ridiculous, the former - that the left wing is using the media, and especially Hollywood, as a vehicle for propaganda - is not new. It was also leveled at DC Comics following the news [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/109659-Superman-Quits-America-Fox-News-Readers-Take-the-News-Badly] that Superman was going to renounce his US citizenship.
Although Elba doesn't look like a typical viking, it's not as if he's playing a historical figure, and it's hardly the only liberty that Marvel has taken with the Norse pantheon. As insults go, saying that the Norse gods were actually aliens with some really advanced technology - which is actually true in the Marvel canon - would seem to be much worse than casting a black actor as Heimdall, but strangely, no one seems to be bothered about that fact. All joking aside though, race in the media is a delicate and difficult subject, whether you're talking about the accusations of "whitewashing [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/91423-Avatar-Protest-Shut-Down-By-Viacom-Copyright-Claim]" in The Last Airbender movie - which is the casting of white actors as characters of color - or the accusations of racism [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/89242-Resident-Evil-5-Coverage-Reignites-Racism-Debate] in Resident Evil 5. It's an issue that people need to keep talking about though, because like any serious issue, it's not going to go away if we just ignore it.
personaly i see why some fans are uset but only because it breaks what we already know about the character. That said anyone whos seen the movie can pretty much say what movie bob did HES BAD ASS nuff said.
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