Blizzard Cleans Up GAME's Mess

surg3n

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Worgen said:
I don't think blizz really cares about the boxed sales as much as getting as many people playing it as possible so they can possibly make more money from the auction thing, I get the feeling blizz is already looking at d3 as a free to play game.
Makes sense. Really the only free to play game that I played was BattlefieldP4F, yet I still spent about £20 on upgrades and gear, and I never do that usually. There's someting about a free to play game, makes me more understanding when I have to spend a couple of bucks on it. I mean, imagine if Blizz gave everyone who paid for the game their money back in auction credits then made the game free to play... I'm pretty sure they'd still make a killing and boost their respect level no end.
 

JEBWrench

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Das Boot said:
TheKasp said:
Das Boot said:
But its also directly blizzards fault that GAME is in this mess. Both Blizzard and GAME are equally responsible for GAME not being able to fulfil its preorders of Diablo 3. The only reason GAME cant honour its preorders anymore is because blizzard refuses to ship to them.
So it's Blizzards fault that GAME can't afford the games?
Who said that? Its not that GAME can't afford the game its that suppliers will not ship to GAME because there is a chance it might not be able to pay. They could have easily made a deal with game to ship them enough to cover the preorders and still made sure they got paid.
GAME got its credit insurance revoked by many publishers. They used to have a deal like that in place, and now they don't because the company is bankrupt.
 

The.Bard

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The real question now is who will clean up Blizzard's Mess?

I feel genuine empathy for the people who can't play D3, but I really really really REALLY want to see Blizzard fall on their face for this. Over and over and over again, until they chalk it up as a horrific error in judgment and never even consider doing it again.

Unless it's an MMO or a Multiplayer Mode, games should NEVER EVER require you to be logged into an online server to play. You're only delaying piracy and cheating. Mostly, though, you're punishing the little guy who gave you his money.

So hopefully we as a community have received the wake up call. When Ubisoft and Blizzard and EA come at you with their online server login requirements, we need to say "NO!", shove pie in their faces, and repeat the process until this horrifically offensive DRM dies in a pit.

Also, just because this is hilarious...



captcha = zero tolerance

Damn straight!
 

JEBWrench

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Das Boot said:
JEBWrench said:
GAME got its credit insurance revoked by many publishers. They used to have a deal like that in place, and now they don't because the company is bankrupt.
They actually didnt go bankrupt they went into receivership. There is a difference between the two. There could still have secured a deal with GAME its just that Blizzard doesnt give a fuck. Hell they get far more goodwill by screwing over GAME and a lot of the people who preordered.
That's because bankruptcy itself only exists for individuals in Australia. It's still legal insolvency. They are granted amnesty from debts - so of course publishers won't give them credit.
 

JEBWrench

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Das Boot said:
JEBWrench said:
That's because bankruptcy itself only exists for individuals in Australia. It's still legal insolvency. They are granted amnesty from debts - so of course publishers won't give them credit.
Actually they are not granted amnesty from debts. The entire point of going into receivership is so that you can pay off your secured creditors.
It was my understanding that part of going into administration allowed the new administrator to be granted temporary amnesty from debts. If I'm wrong, I apologize.
 

The.Bard

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RazadaMk2 said:
Meh.

You know what?

At first I was on the side of the ragers. Now I don't give a damn.

Blizzard made the game online to prevent hacking, to make the RMAH (Which I disagree with) work and to make people buy their game. Yeah, its annoying that you have to always be online, but you know what? Its not unreasonable to ask that any more.

I get annoyed when I play Deus Ex: HR on the XBOX. Because its an HD game on a TV that aint HD, it makes it hard to read quite a lot of the text. This applies to quite a few new games. Do I go online and become a keyboard warrior and ***** about it?

No, because I did not move with the times and I have a shitty TV.

If you cannot get hold of a half-decent internet connection, well, it sucks to be you. But bitching about it? These days it is like bitching that your computer that you bought in 2001 can no longer run games "Wei companies maek games that I cannot play!". You didn't move with the times. The rest of the world did.

Face up to facts. Without this draconian DRM, Diablo 3 would already be one of the worlds most pirated games. Yes, Its a bit of a blow that the old Lan Party feel of Diablo is dead. But times are changing, technology moves on.

TLDR;

It is not the fault of a company like Blizzard if you cannot afford the hardware required to play their games. Sorry. Sometimes you have to upgrade your hardware. And if your internet is shitty and goes down a lot, well, it sucks to be you but that simply is NOT Blizzards fault.

Should the bar for gaming be lowered so the lowest denominator can still play games? Cause if so, I have my parents first computer kicking around in an attic somewhere.

Move with the times. Stop bitching when time moves on without you.
I agree with you in theory... at least insofar as at some point technology does move on, and expecting outdated tech to work forever is unreasonable.

Howeverrrrrr, you're using a completely separate argument to cover Blizzard for making a decidedly anti-consumer move. Moving on with the times involves - generally speaking - things getting better and discarding the older, inferior things. HD gaming, new consoles, faster internet speeds... these benefit us in many obvious ways.

This Draconian DRM is the exact opposite of that. This is not progress. This is not "times moving on." This is times moving backwards. This is regression. At its "finest."

Every example you listed involved a small sacrifice in favor of something better. What is the benefit to the consumer of forced online servers? That's right, there is not ONE single way in which forced online servers (MMO) benefit the customer more than providing an offline single player option where anything goes and your chars aren't backed up.

Forced online servers (MMO) for a single player experience are a noose around gaming's neck. WE the consumers get screwed because they think they can delay piracy. And all the while, Diablo 2 - which had an offline single player option - STILL goes for $20, despite being pirateable.... 12 years later.

I'm sorry, asinine decisions should be treated like they are asinine. And summarily blown up with as large a pile of exposives as we can muster.





TL;DR - Blizzard is being anti-consumer, there is NO benefit to turning D3 into an MMO, & I hope they choke on this decision for a long long looooong time to come.
 

Royas

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tony2077 said:
ElPatron said:
tony2077 said:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they
So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?
A non-necessity, which is different than a luxury. As in, something that isn't food or shelter. But also something that shouldn't be considered for the elite only. You don't need it to live, but it makes life much more worth living.

My thought is that a "luxury" is something extravagant, something that few might have or afford. A big car, a large house, a fancy dinner, these are luxuries. Non-necessities are things that most people can have, but don't strictly NEED, except in that living by necessities alone pretty much sucks eggs. A movie, a book, electricity... we don't NEED these, but living without them isn't nearly as much fun.

Matter of perspective, I guess. You could call games a luxury if you want, but I kind of go with Jim Sterling's recent views on the subject.
 

Tony2077

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Royas said:
tony2077 said:
ElPatron said:
tony2077 said:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they
So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?
A non-necessity, which is different than a luxury. As in, something that isn't food or shelter. But also something that shouldn't be considered for the elite only. You don't need it to live, but it makes life much more worth living.

My thought is that a "luxury" is something extravagant, something that few might have or afford. A big car, a large house, a fancy dinner, these are luxuries. Non-necessities are things that most people can have, but don't strictly NEED, except in that living by necessities alone pretty much sucks eggs. A movie, a book, electricity... we don't NEED these, but living without them isn't nearly as much fun.

Matter of perspective, I guess. You could call games a luxury if you want, but I kind of go with Jim Sterling's recent views on the subject.
about time i got a answer without some kind of rage induced rant thank you. this is why i don't think this always online stuff is as bad as they think it is. too bad i needed some one else to say it. damn add and learning disabilities
 

The.Bard

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RazadaMk2 said:
The.Bard said:
I agree with you in theory... at least insofar as at some point technology does move on, and expecting outdated tech to work forever is unreasonable.

Howeverrrrrr, you're using a completely separate argument to cover Blizzard for making a decidedly anti-consumer move. Moving on with the times involves - generally speaking - things getting better and discarding the older, inferior things. HD gaming, new consoles, faster internet speeds... these benefit us in many obvious ways.

This Draconian DRM is the exact opposite of that. This is not progress. This is not "times moving on." This is times moving backwards. This is regression. At its "finest."

Every example you listed involved a small sacrifice in favor of something better. What is the benefit to the consumer of forced online servers? That's right, there is not ONE single way in which forced online servers (MMO) benefit the customer more than providing an offline single player option where anything goes and your chars aren't backed up.

Forced online servers (MMO) for a single player experience are a noose around gaming's neck. WE the consumers get screwed because they think they can delay piracy. And all the while, Diablo 2 - which had an offline single player option - STILL goes for $20, despite being pirateable.... 12 years later.

I'm sorry, asinine decisions should be treated like they are asinine. And summarily blown up with as large a pile of exposives as we can muster.





TL;DR - Blizzard is being anti-consumer, there is NO benefit to turning D3 into an MMO, & I hope they choke on this decision for a long long looooong time to come.
I know quite a few people who have ended up getting D2 through less than legitimate means due to losing the disks and whatnot. One or two that never got them and find it too hard to get the game so just acquired it through illigitimate means. A game like D3 would have been pirated to hell. At best this system of things always being online will prevent the pirates getting hold of the game for free. At worst it allows Blizzard a few weeks/months of actually getting paid to make the game.

You think it adds nothing to the game. To a degree, I agree with you. But, and this is a pretty hefty "But", forced online gameplay is not a new thing to Diablo. The best runewords? Ladder only. The best Runes? ladder only. The best loot? Ladder only. Quite a lot of gameplay features in the original were, you guessed it, ladder only.

Sure you COULD play the game offline and many people do. I still play D2 for a nostalgia trip with my sisters bloke. Hell, our last runthrough we got to Nightmare. Just got into Act 4 on Nightmare. Annoyingly, my character was lost following having to replace a very, very broken computer. Which would not have happened if it had been backed up onto a server.

And as anyone who has EVER played the original online will tell you, Hacks were game breaking and depressingly common. All balance goes out the window if a fool with some charm that gives him godlike auras runs past, oneshotting you and eveything around you without having to so much as press a single button.

Forcing always online play prevents that. It prevents people being in situations like my own, losing several high level (50+) characters due to a hardware crash. Now, you could argue that if I had ripped the harddrive out of my old computer, bought some more hardware and spent some time with it, I could have saved my old characters. But that is a lot of effort and whatnot which an always online system would prevent.

Yes, It sucks that people with outdated hardware, people without access to DSL will be unable to play the game. However, there are benefits to this system. Blizzard gets paid for what they make, people cannot lose characters unless something happens server side, hacking is prevented from utterly buttfucking online play (For now, at least).

Now you can refute most of those statements. In the early days of WoW, characters of mine got annihilated. In the early days, items of mine got deleted and very, very rarely, someone with hacks would turn up and fuck things up for people (Or, in the case of one of the servers I was on, hand out thousands of gold for the lols whilst moving at near enough to Lightspeed) and it is possible to find private servers. But now, a few years on, the system works well. Hacks have been all but annihilated, bar the occasional bot. I cannot remember the last time I lost anything due to a server issue.

So does always online gameplay add anything?

Yes. It makes those who choose to play Multiplayer happier. It adds a safety net, preventing hardware issues or viruses from fucking over your characters. And, Quite importantly, It stops, at least for now, rampant pirating of the game.

I will admit that I cannot find too many good factors to being forced to stay online. And I can see the negatives, not everyone has a stable internet connection and sometimes we are away from our routers. But, well, we might not like the way technology is going, but in my eyes this is a step in the right direction.

I know this view is less than popular. But in todays world of pirating and the like, this is what publishers are going to be doing to prevent their games being stolen. And for those who cannot afford or do not have access to DSL? Well, I am not going to be a prick and state that videogames are a luxury. But at times in everyones life sometimes there are just games we cannot play.

I grew up in a country where rampant censorship meant getting hold of games or movies was all but impossible. DSL was ludicrously expensive. I used to play WoW with an average of 1200ms. As for the expansions? Ordering online meant a several week wait and insane prices to get the bloody thing delivered. It sucks. But not everything is going to be equally available to everyone, everywhere.

But the clear difference between me and those who are complaining about the future is, well... I didn't. I thought it sucked but I never thought that games companies should do anything different. I never thought I had a "Right" to play games that could not make it into a conservative muslim country. Shit happens.

Always online is the future. It is the future for many, many reasons. Primarily though, its the future because these days, the majority of the gaming market, has DSL. Simple enough. So games are being produced to take advantage of that. Games are always going to be marketted towards the majority.

This entire thread is filled with three kinds of people. Those who are fighting the inevitable. Those who accept the inevitable. And people like me who are trying to look on the positive sides of the inevitable.

tldr;

The future is what the future is. Blizzard is being pro-consumer as the majority of its market will be able to use the always online feature to its advantage and it prevents some of the issues with the earlier game from being repeated. I accept the inevitable and see that perhaps our future is not so bleak as some would seem to think.
The reasons you list are all beneficial in regards to having the OPTION of an online multiplayer server, just like the setup D2 had. In not one single way do they provide a beneficial reason to FORCING you to play on an MMO-style server.

The future is only what we roll over and let happen. NOTHING is inevitable unless we take on the bleak outlook and do nothing to stop it. But when it comes to anti-consumer policies, trust me, NOTHING is inevitable. If we rally loudly enough, they will rethink it (like their 'brilliant' idea of forcing everyone to use their real names on the forums). Today it's Blizzard, a quasi-respectable company. Tomorrow it will be Ubisoft saying that 2 yrs after release, nobody can play Assassin's Creed V because the forced single player server is going down. People won't buy the experimental games for fear of the servers not lasting 5 months, and "gaming" will become "Call of Duty" and "Halo". And sadly, by then it will be too late. So we must fight it. We fight it until it dies.

I don't doubt D2 is pirated, but if it still sells for $20 this many years later, it clearly isn't hurting it by very much. If Blizzard actually WERE pro consumer (they totally aren't), they would say:

"You know what? We will take an X million dollar "loss" to piracy and ensure it can be played offline, because our loyal customer are going to ensure we have several hundred X million dollar profit at the end of the day."

What Blizzard is actually saying with their actions is this:

"We are willing to COMPLETELY dick you guys over so that we can ring in 315 million in sales this weekend instead of 295. Oh, and the servers will be broken, because we've only been in the MMO server business for 8+ years. ENJOY!! MUAHAHAHHAHAH!"

I logged hundreds of hours in with my friends between D1 & D2. Cheating was absolutely rampant, but you know what? It was nice to know if I just wanted to have my own character and not be bothered by anyone else, I could just play offline, which I did a lot of.

My PC gaming these days is mostly done on laptop, most often while traveling. Blizzard's failed attempt to stop piracy - and I say failed because somebody WILL find a way around this, even if they have to recode half of the game themselves - is a direct blow against consumer convenience so they can earn a few bucks. Again, the consumer does NOT benefit from this forced arrangement. Giving us NO CHOICE is not beneficial.

There are people that still can't get in the game. At all. Protecting me from the potential future of losing my hard drive is not even at the back of their minds. Blizzard is as anti-consumer as EA and Ubisoft. They want more money, and they are willing and able to put you out in order to do it. It's that simple. You can say they are pro-consumer if it makes you feel better about them trampling your desires, but they are willing and able to screw you over as far as you will let them.

And it doesn't stop here. All over society today, the consumer is treated like a felon. If you buy a movie, you get warnings that all-but-accuse you of pirating films. I paid you guys money for you to chide me about how I need to buy movies?!? The guy who actually DID pirate the film doesn't get that message!! The used game market is treated like a plague, we're told that pirated music is choking the music industry, and while all the movie studios are whining about how piracy is killing them, it seems like every other film is raking in bajillions in cash.

I'm sorry, I'm just tired. Stinking tired of being treated like a thief-in-the-making because of what OTHER PEOPLE DO. WE are not the ones pirating, but we are constantly accused of it and severely put out as a result. This is the kind of thing that gets frowned upon in real society (though it most unfortunately still happens far too often).

Yes, once Blizzard pulls its head out of its ass and gets the servers functioning, I'm sure people won't be as angry. And I'm sure they'll keep them up for the next decade. That isn't the point here. What Blizzard is doing paves the way for other companies to follow in their wake. EA & Ubisoft don't have a history of keeping their servers up for longer than 6 months.

tl;dr- Your reasons don't justify a forced-MMO, simply the OPTION of both single and multi. Blizzard is out for themselves, and the future is not the future unless we lay down and let it happen!
 

Royas

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tony2077 said:
Royas said:
tony2077 said:
ElPatron said:
tony2077 said:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they
So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?
A non-necessity, which is different than a luxury. As in, something that isn't food or shelter. But also something that shouldn't be considered for the elite only. You don't need it to live, but it makes life much more worth living.

My thought is that a "luxury" is something extravagant, something that few might have or afford. A big car, a large house, a fancy dinner, these are luxuries. Non-necessities are things that most people can have, but don't strictly NEED, except in that living by necessities alone pretty much sucks eggs. A movie, a book, electricity... we don't NEED these, but living without them isn't nearly as much fun.

Matter of perspective, I guess. You could call games a luxury if you want, but I kind of go with Jim Sterling's recent views on the subject.
about time i got a answer without some kind of rage induced rant thank you. this is why i don't think this always online stuff is as bad as they think it is. too bad i needed some one else to say it. damn add and learning disabilities
Raging rants accomplish less than nothing, they just irritate people. However, even though games are not a necessity, I do think this trend toward online only nonsense is every bit as bad as some people are making it out to be. Yes, it's just a game (or games, at this point). Yes, we can live without it. But, there is a bigger picture. The picture that includes the consumer rights that have been put into place through years, decades, of legislation, court decisions, etc. Many of these rights didn't really exist at one point, or were ignored, and with publishers being allowed to treat games (ultimately a product) as a service, they are being ignored once again.

When I purchase something, I want to go to the store, put my money down, take my item home, and use it. Preferably without my having to have any contact with the manufacturer ever again. I've given you my money, that's enough interaction for me, thank you. I expect that when I buy dishes, I expect that when I buy clothing, and I expect that when I buy a game. Blizzard/Activision aren't giving me that, instead they want to force me to interact with them further. Sorry, not interested, don't play multiplayer, so don't need to be online to get what I want from the game, so I won't be buying it until it's in the dirt cheap section. I have plenty of other games, and Blizzard isn't needed to entertain me.
 

Tony2077

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Royas said:
tony2077 said:
Royas said:
tony2077 said:
ElPatron said:
tony2077 said:
there not a luxury if there not then what are they
So are you saying that because people don't live in country X or Y they shouldn't enjoy a game?

If you aren't, address the issue in another way because the contrast between my post and yours really makes it look like it.
I'm asking if there not a luxury then what are they?
A non-necessity, which is different than a luxury. As in, something that isn't food or shelter. But also something that shouldn't be considered for the elite only. You don't need it to live, but it makes life much more worth living.

My thought is that a "luxury" is something extravagant, something that few might have or afford. A big car, a large house, a fancy dinner, these are luxuries. Non-necessities are things that most people can have, but don't strictly NEED, except in that living by necessities alone pretty much sucks eggs. A movie, a book, electricity... we don't NEED these, but living without them isn't nearly as much fun.

Matter of perspective, I guess. You could call games a luxury if you want, but I kind of go with Jim Sterling's recent views on the subject.
about time i got a answer without some kind of rage induced rant thank you. this is why i don't think this always online stuff is as bad as they think it is. too bad i needed some one else to say it. damn add and learning disabilities
Raging rants accomplish less than nothing, they just irritate people. However, even though games are not a necessity, I do think this trend toward online only nonsense is every bit as bad as some people are making it out to be. Yes, it's just a game (or games, at this point). Yes, we can live without it. But, there is a bigger picture. The picture that includes the consumer rights that have been put into place through years, decades, of legislation, court decisions, etc. Many of these rights didn't really exist at one point, or were ignored, and with publishers being allowed to treat games (ultimately a product) as a service, they are being ignored once again.

When I purchase something, I want to go to the store, put my money down, take my item home, and use it. Preferably without my having to have any contact with the manufacturer ever again. I've given you my money, that's enough interaction for me, thank you. I expect that when I buy dishes, I expect that when I buy clothing, and I expect that when I buy a game. Blizzard/Activision aren't giving me that, instead they want to force me to interact with them further. Sorry, not interested, don't play multiplayer, so don't need to be online to get what I want from the game, so I won't be buying it until it's in the dirt cheap section. I have plenty of other games, and Blizzard isn't needed to entertain me.
with direction internet and stuff is taking its not really that big of a deal being able to play a game or not. now if all of gaming does this then there is a problem but your still able to play other stuff

there are games i have that i can't play since my old big xbox died but its not a big problem
 

Sean951

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In the situation mentioned above, where Assassin's Creed V is unplayable because the servers go down, then a patch would likely get issued. We live in this wonderful age where games patch automatically and the game you bought isn't always the game you end up with. If the day comes when Diablo III is no longer profitable enough to maintain the servers, then I would bet Blizzard would write a patch giving you all the information they had been storing. Blizzard may be out for profits, but they also see the value in keeping customers happy. It's a tactic that breeds people like me, who gladly gave them around $800 for World of Warcraft and a little more for WC3, SCI, and SCII.
 

Atmos Duality

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Meh. Good PR move. Still won't crack my cynical heart of stone.
Yes, I'm still pissed about not being able to play the game.