Blizzard Hopes Faster WoW Expansions Will Halt Sliding Subscriptions

[maximara]

I think the main problem is, that as Yahtzee once pointed out.

When you loose a overhanging goal, it isnt interesting.

The main flaw in that argument is WOW became popular when there was NOT an overhanging goal. Cata has fighting Deathwing as the ultimate goal, Wrath had the Lich King, and TBC had Illidan but just what did WOW vanilla have? NOT ONE MEMORABLE THING (unless you count dungeons that took a minimum of three *hours* to do)

The old Azarath zones have been streamlined from the old 'while you are in the area could you help?' to part of a larger goal orientated story. This sadly leads to two main problems.

1) You really see how klunky things were when you hit Outland and even to a lesser degree Northrend.

2) If any of the quests have a bug preventing progression you are truly stuck--you cannot progress further through the zone until Blizzard gets around to fixing the quest.

 

[Coffinshaker]

ok... no.

See, here's the thing, wowclassic was out for years without an expansion and did great! why? because it had "content upgrades", a set level and clear goals on how to upgrade your character with that limit in place. What I mean is, there weren't expansions to give you the "xpac blues", aka, the waiting time between expansion announcement and actual release... because nobody wants to work hard for gear that will be replaced in a few short beginner quests.

What wowclassic had was character upgrades. Gear. When a new raid/dungeon was released, you had to work your butt off to get that gear. It wasn't exactly casual friendly either, but both had their place. Depending on your realm, a lot of casuals got to experience big raids to fill spots. Now, it's all gone crazy. I think they shifted things into feeling more grindy than fun. I really miss the days of needing 2 cc classes and maybe a hunter to kite, otherwise you'd get chewed up. And heaven forbid you even try to set foot in an instance/raid if you weren't geared properly.

I feel that releasing expansions more frequently will only hurt more than it will help. Releasing CONTENT on the other hand, would be better. I think having a static level cap, for maybe 2 years? should really help. Because it then becomes about designing content that's gear/setup/strategy dependent, and not so much toss a high level in there and wale away at things.

Anyways, that's how I feel about that.

So you just want Blizz to release more Raids, not expansions? Well... let's look a this Classic WoW had 7 raids, depending on if you count the half raids as a raid (MC, Ony, BWL, AQ20/40, ZG, Naxx, Strat/Scholo, BRS). TBC had 7 (Kara, Mag, Gruul, Kael, Hyjal, BT, Sunwell). Wrath had 7 (Naxx, VoA, OS, Ulduar, ToC, Icecrown, RS) but also gave you the option of 10 or 25 with each. Admittedly, counting VoA and RS is a stretch since they were filler but either way, they are in. I don't know Cata as well, but they have 3(?) currently? Now, let's not forget that most people consider Ulduar and Icecrown as 2 of the best raids Blizzard ahs ever put out. Ulduar, because it had great a difficulty curve and hardmodes, including a fight that the "top raiders" from Paragon and Ensidia considered to be the hardest fight until that point, and it was hard for the right reasons, not broken mechanics like Classic tended to be. Icecrown was quite popular because if you had any interest in raiding, you could pretty easily get to 7 or 8/12 by the time 4.0 hit. People like to see raiding content, they don't necessarily want to devote more than a single night to it.

DISCLAIMER: I am one of those people who don't like spending more than 1 night raiding, but I got my group to 11/12 by blitzing the first 10 in 2 hours and getting lucky on Sindragosa once.

I think we're talking on the same side of the fence man... but I think I was a bit unclear with my post.

Anyways, I'm with you, I don't want to dedicate lots of time into the game, but what I mean by "work" is more along the lines of "it's a hard instance/raid" not "it takes a lot of time". I don't think both have to exist in the same place. See, my main point is that by releasing the expansions, it just gives more of that "xpac blues" effect, where you're close to having a good set of gear, but you don't really want to put forth the effort because it will be outdated in 1 quest. When they release additional content, it can be in the form of quests, dailies, locations to explore, and yes instances and raids with a bit better gear. None of which have to take up a lot of time investment on our parts, but add smaller attainable goals and paces the content, rather than dropping a "start from scratch" expansion on top of us.

personally, I like having the ability to take my time to get where I want to go, but if they released an expansion in less than a year's time, I just couldn't keep up. >(

 

[Keava]

you are aware of the enormous amounts of content patches they're putting out right?

OT: i've recently started playing again, and i am indeed tearing through content. but i don't think that's the reason subscriptions are sliding. the game is simply starting to get old.

Sorry, when exactly did that enormous amounts of content patches happened? Do you mean recycled troll instance which were added because they didn't finish Firelands on time? Or do you mean that after over 6 months since Cata release they finally release Firelands on PTR, even tho it was supposed to be out months ago? Or maybe you are speaking about the band-aid content introduced during WotlK?

For quite a long time the fact that Blizzard doesn't release content often enough was one of biggest complaints i heard from fellow players.

 

[Erana]

How about some of the things people have been screaming for since day one? Like customization?

This, totally. I think I've spent more time assembling pretty outfits on WoWhead than actually playing WoW. Customization would be killer and in my experience takes up a lot of time.

 

[Torrasque]

What they need to do is make original content again instead of this rehash bullshit they seem to be pulling. Also making it easier and easier may get the casual crowd in, but it alienates your biggest fans.

I was eyeing the exit after finishing ICC, but stayed in the hope that Cata would revitalize WoW for me. It did, for about a month. By that time, I had did every quest in every area, gotten gear to blow through heroics with ease, fought every single new raid boss, and leveled a second alt to 85 as well. Along the way, I realized "holy shit, I did this exact thing in Wotlk." Except, in Wotlk, it was more fun. Hell, the raids were even more fun.

I'd rather wait twice as long for an expansion that will be good, than wait half as long for an expansion that will be complete shit.
It was like when they were "Oh hey! Here's Ony for ya! That'll keep you all occupied for a while!", and people on my server were pugging it successfully in the first 2 weeks =|

It'll take alot to get me back into WoW, and with D3 looming, when I say "alot", I mean I'll consider playing it in 5 years.

 

[maximara]

I think the problem is the player base really. You have casuals who want to raid but can't because they don't know people and therefore can't gear up. Then you have no lifers who will immediately kick someone from a heroic if they're not 359 ilvl with full enchants and gems.

For example I play on Argent Dawn EU, a roleplay server. As you can imagine, PvE isn't a massive priority. So I can't gear up because the dungeon finder pairs me with people who will kick me about a minute into the dungeon once they've seen my gear. And nobody in my guild wants to do heroics because PvE isn't a massive deal.

This is IMHO systematic of a bigger problem. In vanilla quests effectively steered you to elite quests that required grouping or better yet dungeons. The problem was at level 57 your non dungeon quests started turning gray or green. So you HAD to go into dungeons to get the gear needed to do level appropriate quests and at level cap you HAD to raid. The problem was that this mean you basically had no life outside the game. If you didn't have a guild or (as in my case) your guild fell apart you were basically left sitting in capital city twiddling your thumbs spamming chat for group invites or killing mobs to grind to 60 neither of which was fun.

TBC tried to fix that by giving you level appropriate quests even at level cap but this created a new problem--the ability to hit level cap with yellow quests outside dungeons still to do without ever grouping or setting foot in a dungeon.

WotLK added a new problem with the DK. If you wanted to have your gathering skill ready for Outland you HAD to level them up in the low level zones and since you were their you might as well do some of the low level quests especially as they gave FULL rep. In my case my Draenei DK was 64 before she even stepped foot in Outland and 74 before she set foot in Northrend. The TBC quest bloat problem was even worse and I got 6 toons to 85 without a single one ever stepping foot in a Wrath dungeon.

Now we are at Cata and while the questing is the best seen in a long time the speed is totally insane. It is very easy to get to level cap now without EVER setting foot in a level appropriate dungeon--which creates problem the moment you set foot into a Cata dungeon.

 

[Doc Theta Sigma]

I think the problem is the player base really. You have casuals who want to raid but can't because they don't know people and therefore can't gear up. Then you have no lifers who will immediately kick someone from a heroic if they're not 359 ilvl with full enchants and gems.

For example I play on Argent Dawn EU, a roleplay server. As you can imagine, PvE isn't a massive priority. So I can't gear up because the dungeon finder pairs me with people who will kick me about a minute into the dungeon once they've seen my gear. And nobody in my guild wants to do heroics because PvE isn't a massive deal.

Now we are at Cata and while the questing is the best seen in a long time the speed is totally insane. It is very easy to get to level cap now without EVER setting foot in a level appropriate dungeon--which creates problem the moment you set foot into a Cata dungeon.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not in quest greens and blues. It's simply the fact that because I'm not in full epics and I'm not doing 20k+ DPS as an Affliction warlock on trash. The major problem will always continue to be the player base. Blizzard can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

 

[maximara]

I think the problem is the player base really. You have casuals who want to raid but can't because they don't know people and therefore can't gear up. Then you have no lifers who will immediately kick someone from a heroic if they're not 359 ilvl with full enchants and gems.

For example I play on Argent Dawn EU, a roleplay server. As you can imagine, PvE isn't a massive priority. So I can't gear up because the dungeon finder pairs me with people who will kick me about a minute into the dungeon once they've seen my gear. And nobody in my guild wants to do heroics because PvE isn't a massive deal.

Now we are at Cata and while the questing is the best seen in a long time the speed is totally insane. It is very easy to get to level cap now without EVER setting foot in a level appropriate dungeon--which creates problem the moment you set foot into a Cata dungeon.

Oh don't get me wrong, I'm not in quest greens and blues. It's simply the fact that because I'm not in full epics and I'm not doing 20k+ DPS as an Affliction warlock on trash. The major problem will always continue to be the player base. Blizzard can't please 100% of the people 100% of the time.

But this relates back to the leveling experience not getting you ready in terms of both skill and gear I was talking about. Crafting is even more braindead in this regard.

My Paladin has Blacksmithing of 515 and just hit 85. He has the pyrate bars to buy the purple plans but not the skill (they require 520). He can make armor that will give him 5 skill points in one go BUT they all require Chaos orbs which require heroic dungeons which require epics which my paladin doesn't yet have. So to make epic gear in the shortest time possible my palidin needs epic gear to run the dungeons required to get the materials...to make epic gear.

Just who came up with this bright as a dead firefly Catch-22 idea?!?

It is one thing to try and please everyone and it is quite a different matter to do things that make no blasted sense that royally tick off players.

Let's face it crafting has been train wreck for a long time in WoW. If you power level it (and I do) you can make gear BETTER then quest drops until about 25 at which point it tanks until you hit Outland and then you have a spike again and then a fall off.

Cata has much the same problem. At level 81 my jewelcrafter was able to make level 300 rings...which she couldn't wear until 82 which is better than ANY ring quest drop in Hyjal (though the 333 ring from the rep vender is better)

 

[The Stonker]

I think it's funny that on the one hand you have people saying that the game is TOO HARD which is why they're leaving, and on the other people saying it's TOO EASY which is why they're living. When you're making a game for 12 million people, pleasing everyone is nigh impossible.

But man, the actual content that's there? Is some of the best there's ever been. I can't believe that there are people who actually want to go back to the crappy environment of pre-BC. That was horrible, yo

We got to kill giant flying eyeballs in vanilla WoW.
Where it was challenging.
These days you can't kill no eyeballs, but you get to roleplay as
*drumroll*
A FISHERMAN!

YAAAY!
The sad thing is that I really like WoW, I played it as a kid and I mostly played Vanilla WoW, it would break your balls man, but it felt so great when you got those purple boots that took you 3 days of raiding.
These days then WoW is way to easy, you can do a couple of heroics, maybe 1 or 2 raids and then BAM!
Full gear.
But I want to see a return of the 40 man raids, raids that actually beat your ass until you're so bloodied that you will somehow slap it into submission.
Raids that are actually, well tough.
What WoW needs to do if it wants to save face is to release content which isn't stale or boring, I mean, common.
I'm even considering on going into Warhammer online because it is a bit more gritty and I play Warhammer my self.


WoW is a cancer and it's about to get cut out.

The day WoW brings back 40-mans is the day WoW is dead. 40-mans were, and are, a cancer on MMOs.

In what sense?
If you've ever raided MC with a full raid or AQ with a full raid, then you know the experience.
The thing is that everything comes to an end, so I will guess that WoW will be dead in about 2 years.

I've been playing WoW since uh... geez, early 2005, with a few breaks here and there (like after TBC came out). I did all the hardcore stuff in the day; my guild killed Rag, Nef, C'Thun and made headway in Naxxramas.

You couldn't get me to go back to that if you paid me. I have fond memories of Classic WoW as anyone else, but the design then was absolute CRAP compared to now.

Of course.
But if they could somehow, revamp the feeling that was behind WoW classic, if they could only...
GAAARGH.
The thing is that I want WoW to be more of a game then a psychological box.

 

[Keava]

how often does whatever other game then WoW you play bring out new content of the same size as world of warcraft? basically for free, since the monthly fee is for server upkeep? even minecraft doesn't come close to the man-hours poured into every content patch.

First things first. Motlhy fee is not 'server upkeep costs. Servers do not cost over 100 million per month, i'll tell you even more, in 2008 the cost of running WoW since release (4 years) closed in 200 millions dollars which includes all the customer support costs and all that stuff. 200 million for 4 years against 11 mil x 15$ / month.
In less than 2 months WoW covers it's operation costs for 4 years, majority of the fee you pay is actual income for the company + development of new content. There is no such things as 'free'.

Now as for content itself. 2-3 raids added every expansion cycle is not really big thing. Vanilla (2004-2007) seen 3 big raids and 2 small added, TBC (jan 2007- nov 2008) added 2 big raids out of which BT was supposed to be on release and 1 10man, WotlK (nov 2008 - dec 2010) had 2 raids added, 1 joke added (Argent), 1 filler (Ruby Sanctum), 1 recycle (Nyxia). That is not really stunning 'free' content over 7 years of WoWs life considering the resources avalible.

and now Blizzard instead adding new 'free' content wants to release paid expansions instead.

 

[Farseer Lolotea]

Well. That's not as big a drop as I'd heard, but it's more than I'd thought.

This probably isn't the best idea. Cata already had a lot of corner-cutting that had to be fixed after the fact (and some that still hasn't fixed yet). Then again, Blizzard seems to be making somewhat more dubious decisions lately.

 

[Bobbity]

Sad to say that I'm one of these people. I went from eighty to eighty five in three days, played around with the endgame stuff for a month, then left.

Faster content might help, but more engrossing content would do the trick too. Grinding heroics is mind-crushingly depressing stuff, you know.
Not to mention the absurd queue times for dungeons.

 

[Keava]

snip

and these raids, which you find insignificant, how much do they cost in manhours? in equipment for those developers? artists? composers? game-designers? logistics?
and saying that they should spend all their income on developing WoW is pretty stupid for someone who comes up with so many numbers.

Reading comprehension... *cough*

The 200 million number was a cost including development of additional content. I'm not saying all the income should be put into it, hell no, im saying that with what they get they could easily afford slightly more frequent content patches oriented on keeping the game going and challenging rather than trying to generate additional revenue through pushing that content into expansions.

Small, frequent expansions worked well for GuildWars because the game was buy2play, but when i pay subscription fee for a MMO i expect content to be delivered in small chunks through patches. Expansions are all fine and dandy but they need to actually game changing from both content and features point.

Over 7 years of being 'the leading force' on the market WoW brought 7-8 major raid instances in content patches, that's barely 1 raid / year while average clear time for semi-casual guild is 2-3 months tops with 3 raid nights / week. Of course there is artificial extending in form of hardmodes/achievements but that's not really the same as 'more content'.

Don't get me wrong, Cata started promising, the 5mans were actually enjoyable and required some strategy while not rewarding welfare epics, raids were nicely tuned, but 3 months later they started nerfing it down again, then made the flop with ZA/ZG retcon and pushing Firelands further away.
Now they say "Want new content? Buy new expansion" and that's the part which i do not like.