Blizzard to Remove "Sexy" Tracer Pose in Overwatch - Update

go-10

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Secondhand Revenant said:
GZGoten said:
why don't they just alter all female characters to be generic flat women that have no feminine distinctions or anything that could be considered provocative. I mean, we all know that real life women avoid being sexy, even when it's with their partner, being sexy is just wrong! The fact that Blizzard is exploiting this sacrilegious booty is just disgusting, real women don't look or pose like that!

I'm making a new movement "Replace ALL female characters in any medium with tofu"
I've certainly never seen someone pose like that in real life. Nor someone try to be sexy while being ready to get into some kind of athletic competition (which is the closest thing I can think of outside an actual fight).

I'm not sure what kind of point you think is made by suggesting that women actually go around trying to show off their butts in this sort of context or that people actually pose like this for anything but rather specific photographs.
fuck... now that I re-read it it does sound like I'm being sarcastic... I'm actually trying to sound serious. I mean it that it's disgusting what their doing to Tracer not just with this pose but with a lot of different things she's being serialized which is just wrong, specially in her case that they did such a good job in the mini movies to showcase her as a cool character. She's legitimately awesome and I like her for her attitude not her butt... please read this seriously, don't think I'm trying to be sarcastic :S
 

Cati

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Sep 4, 2014
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Oh hey, so the original complaint came from a man: https://twitter.com/stillgray/status/714785633148006400

And women who object to the change are getting shit on: http://us.battle.net/forums/en/overwatch/topic/20742895690


So what we actually have here is:
a dad felt uncomfortable because he is drawn to look at the ass of a young female character his daughter likes.
He then weaponised his daughter to get Blizzard to change said character's pose, thus removing the source of his discomfort and inner turmoil, with no care to how his daughter may feel about that, let alone any other women and girls playing the game.
And now he and Blizzard are being celebrated for being prudes by people who claim to champion women's rights and equality etc.?

This is exactly the sort of shit that spawned minority and women lead backlashes to "progressives", such as #notyourshield and #BernieMadeMeWhite.

Our media has not made any actual progress. All we have succeeded in doing is creating a situation where some people from "privileged" groups are doing the bare minimum, to the detriment of the "underprivileged", so they're not first against the wall when the revolution comes.

And while that small minority are getting headpats and cookies for being good boys and allies, those of us who actually give a damn about our media, about equality and better representation, are fighting eachother and getting absolutely nowhere!
 

MrMan999

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Honestly this is an absolute nontroversy. If Blizzard wants to remove a pose that shows off Tracer's admittedly cute butt, its their business. Things gets changed and removed from games in development all the time. I'm just gonna say that the logic that pose being removed also kind of requires Widowmaker to be entirely removed. Honestly I think people on both sides are overreacting.
 

The Material Sheep

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MrMan999 said:
Honestly this is an absolute nontroversy. If Blizzard wants to remove a pose that shows off Tracer's admittedly cute butt, its their business. Things gets changed and removed from games in development all the time. I'm just gonna say that the logic that pose being removed also kind of requires Widowmaker to be entirely removed. Honestly I think people on both sides are overreacting.
I guess that's the issue. It seems so slap dashed, knee jerk and entirely without merit. The reasons stated for removal directly contrast with other aspects of the game. There are likely plenty of good reasons for not giving Tracer this pose, but the one given was not one of them only served to throw more fuel on the fire.
 

Adam Jensen_v1legacy

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Ukomba said:
I take it, like most everyone else, you didn't see her last rant on strategic but coverings.

I saw her dumb video a while ago as well as Crafty Ape's glorious response. And I'd just like to say that I don't think I've ever seen a clearer case of confirmation bias and I debated Creationists in my high school days. Do people actually believe in this retarded shit?
 

09philj

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Adam Jensen said:
Ukomba said:
I take it, like most everyone else, you didn't see her last rant on strategic but coverings.

I saw her dumb video a while ago as well as Crafty Ape's glorious response. And I'd just like to say that I don't think that I've ever seen a clearer case of confirmation bias and I debated Creationists in my high school days. Do people actually believe in this retarded shit?
I've interacted with one person who does. Although this was a whackjob who insisted that men couldn't be feminists, BDSM enforced rape culture, and any sex without verbal consent was tantamount to rape.
 

Ukomba

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Pluvia said:
Ukomba said:
Pluvia said:
Rathkor said:
You said it couldn't be proven that the people making these complaints weren't customers. I provided proof of one of the loudest critics literally saying she was not a gamer, knew nothing about gamers, and had to learn about gaming. Seems to me that might be enough to convince anyone who wasn't being intellectually dishonest that maybe she isn't a game companies target audience.
Just throwing this out there but Sarkeesian has nothing to do with this situation.

Like literally nothing at all.
I take it, like most everyone else, you didn't see her last rant on strategic but coverings.

-Video-

Opps, well that's the wrong one but you get the idea. So not literally nothing. Just very little.
Well no she really has nothing to do with this. People are dragging her into this.
Except it's a topic she covers so it does involve her. Yes, strictly speaking, she had no direct involvement, but she's made herself the but critic so now anytime people think of an ass, she's going to come to mind.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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As much as I like bringing Anita Sarkeesian up in as many completely unrelated threads as possible, can we like, not? Just this once? Just to see what happens?

That said, I'd like to meet the person who made the original forum post. I mean, to meet someone with the ability to shift the course of a multi-million dollar corporation with naught but praise followed by mild criticism is a level of power wielded by very few of the course of history. That they'd use this power on something like an in-beta videogame speaks to madness when they could command companies and nations with naught but a stern word and look of disapproval.

Or Blizzard isn't lying. I mean, it's one or the other.
 

Redryhno

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Disco Biscuit said:
So, if you put the two together, then maybe there was a reason beyond "Someone may take issue with it"? Such as "Many people actually took issue with it" or "We're worried about some crazy christian group in Australia boycotting our game".
Considering how alot of Australians are portrayed in the game, I wouldn't be surprised(which is sorta strange considering I sympathize a helluva lot more with them than pretty much any other faction I've seen) if there were boycotts called of the game to begin with. I'm honestly surprised nobody's mentioned the crap that led up to Australia becoming actual Mad Max but a fucking pose gets mentioned and suddenly everyone knows everything there is to know about the characters.

erttheking said:
Shinkicker444 said:
It's not about good or bad. It's simply a matter of being sexy fitting Widowmaker's character more than Tracer's.
How exactly? Isn't Widowmaker essentially just a botched experiment from a kidnapping that she's mostly just an emotionless husk? How does "sexy" fit her character more? I mean, it's not like she has many lines that don't directly involve the current mission/job/etc where Tracer has that bouncy flity-ish personality to begin with.

I mean, I know people think she's some kind of femme fatale archetype, but considering what we've got right now, that's just her origin(and only a very tiny part of it to boot). That was just what she started as before she actually underwent the rest of her conditioning. So where are people getting the "mild sexy pose doesn't fit Tracer, but fits the emotionless killing machine" idea? I really wonder sometimes how people rationalize these arguments.

I mean, shit, this is RollerDerby Nova in HoTS all over again. A silly skin in a really bad game that got everyone up in arms because it "didn't match her character". No shit it doesn't match her character, it's supposed to be a silly fun skin, much the same here. Nobody makes/made this much of a fuss over Chef Stitches, Archangel Diablo, Ladybug Anub-Arak, Santa Rehgar, etc. None of those skins match their characters and are alot more opposed to those characters and what they represent than a pose.

Hell, in the same game, they've got like three skins for Reaper themed around him being in a mariachi band, how is that ok? What about Bastion's poses? using a similar line of thought, he's got one where there's a bird in his cannon, how is that not encouraging animal cruelty? Dva's got all of hers revovling around being cute Korean mech girl, how is that not dehumanizing in a similar fashion? Hanzo, Mcree, Mercy, Soldier76, Symmetra all have the exact same pose, and often wear even less in some of their skins than Tracer's jump suit with even more focus put on their ass. And it's not any of their default poses, you have to buy it to begin with. Hell, look at Tracer's other poses and seriously tell me that it doesn't fit her with that impish grin she's got on at every single shot there is of her.


BX3 said:
...

...er... unless in a later patch they, in fact, decide to remove tha booty.

Then, all will truly be lost. For now though, meh, it's just a pose. They clearly still want her to have a small bit of sex appeal, otherwise they'd change the tights. The whole "We don't want anyone to feel uncomfortable" thing comes off as disingenuous though, and seems to have made the situation worse. If you no longer like the pose, just say you no longer like the pose, my dude. I don't like a lot of things about my work.
I really think that probably has to be the biggest reasoning for people not liking this decision. Blizzard has a gigantic history of having "worse" examples in their games, and if I'm remembering right, with Kaplan at the head there too and allowing it. It's easy PR that requires pretty much nothing for them to do but condemn anyone that liked it or think their reasoning is bullshit, much like how much those with the same mindset drooled over Zarya when she was revealed as a strong female character or whatever the reasoning then was(personal opinion, why the hell did she have to bright neon hair? I know she's supposed to be two stereotypes for points, but did they have to make her hair like that when the closest equivalent she's got in the game is a guy with sparklers stuck in his head?).


Objectable said:
Hey, remember when the Mass Effect 3 ending came out and it was eventually changed? Boy, I sure remember the outrage that was caused cause the writer wasn't allowed to follow his artistic vision!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/992f2d448d149697c9460818cf545023/tumblr_o4so6ewOBF1r9s07oo1_500.jpg
Can we please stop pulling that shit show out? The one where Bioware specifically said it wouldn't be an A,B, or C type ending and it ended up being exactly that? That your choices throughout the entire series would very much matter only for everyone to end up with an ending that had no input on what you did beyond what happened in that game? The game that dropped you into the middle of an ongoing story that you had no idea what was going on unless you'd done the DLC in the last one? The generous amounts of retconning that went on? That a minor comic nobody had any idea existed had more canon in it than the game series that spawned it in the first place? That multiple characters did 180's on their roles in the story and the ending largely just was the final nail in the coffin for what could've easily been the best series of the generation? The ending was a problem, yes, because it gave no amount of closure at all and called itself artistic when half their writing staff was laidoff, quit, and ignored if they weren't buddy-buddy with the project leader and it spread to nearly ever facet of the game's narrative that nobody that brings that example up to talk about. Only about the Red, Green, Blue, ending lights that somehow have more artistic merit than the last two games leading up having hints that were alot more scientific and actually smart than "man vs. machine".
[hr]
Also, as an aside, apparently the person that originally made the claim of being a mother to a young daughter is not exactly true...turns out they're a dude. So does anyone want to comment on WHY someone MIGHT want to claim to be something else to make one argument, then turn around and say something completely different when what they wanted changed was taken care of and how that's more than a bit scummy?

I've got a link to their post history with them saying this that anyone can look up pretty easily since their username is plastered everywhere, but I'm not sure if it's exactly allowed to just link it here.
 

Cati

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http://gameranx.com/features/id/46516/article/overwatch-9-ways-blizzards-handling-of-tracers-sexy-pose-went-wrong/

Idk if it's already been posted, since it looks like folks are more interesting in infighting and shitslinging in this thread, but if not, IMC makes some good points here.
 

Rastrelly

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Funny. This event kinda finally solved my issue with "to buy or not to buy" Overwatch. Not to.

Here's my logic: the more the better. If I can do more, I can do more, and, therefore, I can do more. One absolutely inoffensive function was cut because some arse decided little girls should not see this woman's butt right the way it is. And company agreed. And cut the function. Can this happen again after I buy the game with function I like? Maybe some other poses, or skins, or whatever? Yes, definitely. Thus, no buy.
 

Cati

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@Redrhyno - implying he was a woman, or deliberately being vague and omitting the fact he was actually a man, would have been done to get his initial complaint heard without being discounted for coming from a man (and a dad appearing to worry about the purity of his daughter at that).

Once he had people supporting it that could also be assumed to be female, whether they were or not, the devs are safe to agree and make changes (again, using the poor defenseless women as an excuse), because they're doing it to make women feel included, not to make one guy feel less skeevy for checking out digital ass.

After changes had been announced and apologies made, the media exaggerates the story and runs with the "Blizzard does wonderful thing for women gamers" angle, again using the plight of us poor defenseless women to support the complaints and actions taken.

This is the point where the original complainant and the devs will receive considerable backlash from other players, and the wider community. The media and supporters of the change then push the idea that it's women feeling unwelcome that's the cause of the change, and men wanting to look at digital ass that are upset about the change, because the complainant and the dev handling the complaint have both used women as a smokescreen in their posts on the matter.

It's only once the lines have been drawn, and sides have been determined and pitted against eachother, that it comes out the original complaint actually came from a man. But it's too late. The community are already fighting eachother over this.

The "we must protect the women!" side are ironically attacking any woman that doesn't side with them or agree with the original complaint.

The "why are you caving to one complaint?" side are attacking back.

And neither side is focusing their attention on the bigger problem:
we* are all being played by opportunists who don't want to be caught in the blast when the problematic creepers come and say "that's a nice game/community you have there, it would be a shame if someone were to say it was *ist. Hssss."

Our concerns are being appropriated by people who only care about themselves, to further their own self interest, and they're making mugs of us.

*and by "we", I mean all of us, regardless of "side". We're all people that love our hobby, and want the best for it and our community. We may want different things at times, but none of us want to see it split in half by King Solomon.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Cadi said:
http://gameranx.com/features/id/46516/article/overwatch-9-ways-blizzards-handling-of-tracers-sexy-pose-went-wrong/

Idk if it's already been posted, since it looks like folks are more interesting in infighting and shitslinging in this thread, but if not, IMC makes some good points here.
Man, my respect for this guy has shot waaaaaaaay up. About this time last year, I likely wouldn't have given him the time of day. He also makes some very valid points about this affair that I feel that people have missed.

It never really occurred to me just how badly Jeff Kaplan screwed the pooch on this one until IMC pointed out the effects that Kaplan's statements are going to have on his team. Basically, he threw his art and animation teams under the bus in order to state his opinions, and then used his power as the game's director to enforce his opinions on the game, his development team, and (most importantly) the game's potential customers. Think about the message that sends to not only the customers, but the development team and the company as a whole.

It's the same problem Blizzard has almost always had: their opinions are the most important ones, and the opinions of their customers are only a single rung above meaningless. Of course, Blizzard should get the final say in how they create their product, but they should at least appear to care about their customers as something besides giant, bloated sacks of money.

And the single most frustrating part about all of this is just how easily this whole fucking mess could've been avoided. As I've said before, a short statement saying something to the effect of "We don't think this pose fits the character, so we changed it" would've saved us and Blizzard a lot of trouble. Instead, Kaplan saw it as an opportunity to get up on his soapbox, only for the gaming community to start throwing vegetables.

This mess is like watching a damn train wreck; it's terrible and was caused by something stupid, but I can't bring myself to look away...
 

chikusho

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A bold developer decides to follow artistic vision despite complaints from the oversensitive, thin-skinned masses. Looks like GamerGate finally worked!
 

Something Amyss

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EMWISE94 said:
Actually yes, being an artist I create a lot and one the things I do an unhealthy amount is doodling and drawing character designs so thats actually why I burn with an unhealthy to know the resigns behind a design. Anytime I sketch up a character design I always ask myself why, why this colour pallete? why are they dressed like this and does it fit their profession? why is this design suited for this particular story universe and not the other?

Shoot one day if the stars align or what have you I'd like to grab all the character designs that I like but one thing or another about them maybe irks me and sit down with their designers and just figure out whats the dealio.
That's cool. I wish I could draw. I am horrible at it. I once drew a stick figure and someone asked me why the dragon looked so sick. Hell, even signing my name is usually considered an invocation of dark magics or a cry for help.

So I'm curious now. Do you ask as you're designing, or after the fact?

Main reason I ask is my first drafts are often rough but written in the moment. Part of it is just to keep going to the end, and part of it is the knowledge I'm going to change things later. Hell, when writing songs, I'll throw in throwaway or even gibberish lines (an idea I may have gotten from "Scrambled Eggs," or was it 101 Dalmatians...) just to get the general flow down.

I imagine when you're an employee as part of a large group, it gets even more potentially confusing. Not only do you have to do your job, but everyone else has to do theirs at the same time. Ideas might be carried along because one thinks that's what they're supposed to be doing and whatnot, and there may not be that hands-on a level of oversight. Thing is, I don't work in environments like that. I'm either the only person doing the work or I'm beholden to a small number of people.

It could be that because this is paid work, they didn't stop to ask why themselves.

Objectable said:
Hey, remember when the Mass Effect 3 ending came out and it was eventually changed? Boy, I sure remember the outrage that was caused cause the writer wasn't allowed to follow his artistic vision!
http://40.media.tumblr.com/992f2d448d149697c9460818cf545023/tumblr_o4so6ewOBF1r9s07oo1_500.jpg
The irony there is that the first ending of the game was a rewrite. They self-censored, but because we didn't know how evil that was, we let them get away with it.

I feel we are owed the original ending, even if it will be a great expense for EA/Bioware.