Blizzard "Trying Not to Oversexualize" Female Overwatch Characters

Aaron Sylvester

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Loop Stricken said:
NoX 9 said:
As an example of what DOES annoy me; when I played WoW many years ago with my friend and we moved to a new area, he got himself a sweet looking new armor. It wasn't too big and bulky, had sweet red highlights and made his character look like an utter badass.

If it helps, there's pretty much no examples of that post-Burning Crusade. At most, some of the chest armours show a bit of midriff. Yes it's a bit silly, but it's pretty sparse too.

I mean, this is how my paladin looks nowadays:
Post-transmog there are a LOT of players who use the old (and very few) pieces of skimpy cloth and plate armor for their look.




Personally I wish there were more sets like that...not exactly "hurr durr bikini" but styled and artfully designed around being revealing, like how GW2 handles it.

There's no doubt those sets would be immensely popular ...Blizzard know that, and are trying their best to stay away from that :p
 

Ticklefist

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And to think that the rest of the internet is excited about this game.

This is what happens when you draw people in with negative, cynical content. You get negative and cynical readers.
 

FieryTrainwreck

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I think Blizzard bent over backwards to create an incredibly diverse cast of characters while maintaining a ton of mainstream appeal, and I think it's hilarious that it still wasn't nearly enough for some people.
 

Something Amyss

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BigTuk said:
Nope right now we're at a safe point in mechanics and aesthetics... do we really want to and a safe spot for character design as well?
As far as I can tell, we pretty much already have the end result of that, so why would it bother me if it was because the designs were the issue.

I mean, you mention DOA Beach Volleyball, but how many people do you suppose can name the individual characters? They're not particularly memorable, in part because they're all virtually interchangeable.
 

Dollabillyall

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Hazzard said:
Well, that's nice, but I suppose it's sad that this seems to be news-worthy now.
Why would it be sad? It is obviously THE discussion in popular culture of our time and Blizzard is probably the biggest to take a decidedly progressive stance on the issue.
IMHO there is no room for the "oh cmon its 2014" argument. The time for this discussion is now, if the time for it was in 1920 it would have happened in 1920.
 

Draconalis

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I want characters to wear LESS clothing!

This is bullshit!

Where's my movement for less clothing?

Fuck clothing, I'm nude as I type this. Clothes are the worst.
 

prpshrt

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Why doesn't the movie industry get equal amounts of flak? Just seems like gaming industry is an easier target because it most of the demographic was male at one point.
 

Draconalis

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Transmog was mentioned above... and I'd like to point out, woman like skimpy looking things too.

Most of my female Wow friends have skimpy transmogs because they like it.
 

Erttheking

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prpshrt said:
Why doesn't the movie industry get equal amounts of flak? Just seems like gaming industry is an easier target because it most of the demographic was male at one point.
They do. You just don't see it because you don't spend your time on websites dedicated to it like the Escapist is dedicated to games.
 

happyninja42

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Baresark said:
I do feel that comparisons to TF2 are 100% unavoidable though. I mean, it's the same kind of idea it looks like with cartoony characters and point captures and every class being unique and all... though Blizzard is not known for their hats, so that is kind of win in my camp anyway.
No, they're known for their shoulderpads. xD You know for once I'd like to hear a Blizzard character when you click on them enough, make a joke about the obnoxiously huge shoulderpads.
 

Dogstile

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erttheking said:
prpshrt said:
Why doesn't the movie industry get equal amounts of flak? Just seems like gaming industry is an easier target because it most of the demographic was male at one point.
They do. You just don't see it because you don't spend your time on websites dedicated to it like the Escapist is dedicated to games.
Its not as prevalent. Its why the whole games are art movement is so ridiculous. Everyone is so desperate for their toys (yes, toys, they are toys) to be art that they forget that even an artform can have dumb, fun things.

Planet terror is a prime example, its pretty loved by just about every critic i've seen, but its a dumb film, that has needlessly sexy women in it. Nobody gives a shit, because they can recognise that not every film needs to be a statement, the same way not every game needs to be a statement.

When people start acting like adults over this, we'll all be a lot happier.
 

Zeles

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Good for Blizzard! While what they've done with Overwatch could still be improved, I'm glad that they're taking a step in the right direction.
 

Erttheking

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Dogstile said:
erttheking said:
prpshrt said:
Why doesn't the movie industry get equal amounts of flak? Just seems like gaming industry is an easier target because it most of the demographic was male at one point.
They do. You just don't see it because you don't spend your time on websites dedicated to it like the Escapist is dedicated to games.
Its not as prevalent. Its why the whole games are art movement is so ridiculous. Everyone is so desperate for their toys (yes, toys, they are toys) to be art that they forget that even an artform can have dumb, fun things.

Planet terror is a prime example, its pretty loved by just about every critic i've seen, but its a dumb film, that has needlessly sexy women in it. Nobody gives a shit, because they can recognise that not every film needs to be a statement, the same way not every game needs to be a statement.

When people start acting like adults over this, we'll all be a lot happier.
No games are not toys. Toys is far too simple a label to be thrown as something as large as gaming. It's too wide, it's constantly evolving, and can't be simplified without missing the point of the genre.

Ok. What's your argument here? That it's possible to have sexy characters and not be hated? I don't think anyone was denying that. Heck Bayonetta is getting tons of love right now. Most of the frustration comes from lack of alternatives to sexy characters. Heck, there are plenty of sexy characters I love. But it's pretty hard to find female characters that aren't sexy.

The human race is, as a whole, ironically very bad at acting like adults. So...yeah.
 

Grampy_bone

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Way to cater to a tiny minority Blizzard. Who keeps saying feminists have no influence?

Honestly art design is art design, if they want to make characters however they want, who cares. Blizzard has a rep for quality gameplay, not flashy graphics or supermodel characters.

But this sets a bad precedent. Feminists are never happy with anything. Give them an inch and they take a mile. Expect endless "empowerment" discussions. Expect arguing over every female character's role in the story. Expect arguments over femininity vs masculinity. Expect gay and trans characters being demanded. Expect accusations of "heteronormative hegemony." Expect a cavalcade of endless bullshit.

In short, gaming becomes a feminist battleground, which is exactly what they want. Feminism drives men away, hobby stagnates and dies, and feminism looks for its next victim. People will say I'm crazy, this is a slippery slope argument, I'm a misogynist, etc. Whatever. I'm calling it now. This shit is bananas.

(edit: grammar)
 

MrMan999

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Eh, I get where Blizzard is coming from. And besides, we all know that the internet will fill in the blanks anyway. So to speak.
 

MetalShadowChaos

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dragonswarrior said:
*blinks* Uhm... How on earth can you not see this as a problem? I mean, I don't even know where to start. Yea, every character is designed to be aesthetically pleasing. It's just that all the women are designed to be sexually pleasing, while only one of the male characters is designed that way. Like... What? There is such a huge difference there I can't even understand how this is an argument.

You said it's okay because the women are designed for people to be looking at them. I mean... That IS the problem. These women characters are designed to be looked at by men. To appeal to men. Not to women. Not to just people in general. To men. There isn't a single female character in this game that was designed to not be conventionally attractive. Whereas of the male characters, only one seems to be designed to be conventionally attractive, to appeal to women, while all the others can appeal to anyone who likes good character design.

Then in your second paragraph you say this: "More important is getting more variety in female character designs to match up with what is accepted for men." And you say some cool if I think somewhat ignorant stuff about male conventional attractiveness. Which makes me wonder if maybe you just didn't understand my post? Because it almost seems like you agree with me at least in part anyway? *confused*

Also, while I wish we didn't have a male conventional attractiveness archetype, sad thing is I think we do. And the archer character kinda personifies it. Fit but not buff, some nice muscle definition showing, grizzled but still very attractive. That's sort of the "thing" that currently defines the attractive male at this point. At least as I've noticed media portraying it.
I already went through all the female characters before and explained why everyone except Widowmaker and in some respects mercy are NOT designed to be explicitly sexually pleasing. They ARE sexually pleasing, but they don't follow the one true archetype, again except Widowmaker who is 100% sexualised. You could switch tracer's gender and wouldn't have to change her clothes, same with Pharah. Symettra's sexual elements are there because it would be weird for them NOT to be with her backstory and gameplay, Mercy only appears sexual in our eyes because we associate skintight stuff with sexuality, honestly I've been though all this before. Widowmaker it bad territory, but everyone else is pretty good.

And they most certainly weren't designed "to be looked at by men" that specifically. They were designed to be looked at by PEOPLE, not specifically men, not specifically women, PEOPLE. It's pretty silly to think that these characters were designed not to appeal to women at all. The equivalent being saying that none of the male characters are designed to appeal to men because men like women. It's a ridiculous notion, especially since this thread is on an interview where they specifically state that these aren't their intentions.

And what I meant about variety in character designs was that there are a variety of 'standard' body types to chose from when making a male character, practically all seen here, the dwarf(Torb), the ripped(reaper), the Gargantuan(Reinhardt) and the standard(hanzo). For women, these unwritten standards to choose from are more limited. Practically every woman in Overwatch is the same shape, excluding Pharah who has her suit, while the men have a much wider variety of body types.

And what exactly is wrong with me partially agreeing with you? Is that a crime, to have an opinion similar yet in many ways different to another? It just sounds like an odd thing to act confused about.

As for standard for male attractiveness, you could put an argument forward for every character in Overwatch to represent such a model, thus as such a dispute can be had so easily there is no real standard. Most of the time when a 'sexy' man appears he's only sexy to men, in the sense that a man thinks he is what sexy is to a woman. When you actually get men specifically designed to appeal to women, you get Free Iwatobi Swim Club. Hanzo has elements of that, in retrospect, but I certainly wouldn't call him a sexualised man.
 

Something Amyss

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Dogstile said:
Planet terror is a prime example, its pretty loved by just about every critic i've seen, but its a dumb film, that has needlessly sexy women in it. Nobody gives a shit, because they can recognise that not every film needs to be a statement, the same way not every game needs to be a statement.
And when we have more games which are the equivalent of "prestige" films, or even prominent indie films, you might have a point.

The problem is, right now, virtually no games are statements. I just saw someone make a post about why we should take games seriously and over the course of like two decades, he came up with about a dozen titles. Most of the lists I see are shorter than the number of Michael Bay flicks released in the last ten years. This is not a compelling argument.

If you want to talk parity with film, you need to get to parity with film.

Incidentally, how many games critics are actually not enjoying the products? Bayonetta 2, despite being "panned" by a couple of sites, enjoys a 91 rating on Metacritic, something Grindhouse doesn't. GTA V, for claims of misogyny, ranks at a 97 on both current platforms. The "maligned" Dragon's Crown got an 82 (PS3) and 78 (Vita). When this game comes out, I'm sure it will largely pass or fail on merits notwithstanding criticism of female representation. The idea that gaming is somehow being hurt by "all this talk" is absurd, and reminds me of something that was said after that media study came out where "feminism" represented less than 1 percent of media coverage for games:

When people complain about too much talk about feminism in gaming, they're complaining that it exists at all.
 

Something Amyss

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Grampy_bone said:
In short, gaming becomes a feminist battleground, which is exactly what they want. Feminism drives men away, hobby stagnates and dies, and feminism looks for its next victim. People will say I'm crazy, this is a slippery slope argument, I'm a misogynist, etc. Whatever. I'm calling it now. This shit is bananas.
Ahh yes, the "feminist takeover" that's been coming for something like twenty years now.

It's the gamer equivalent of end of the world prophecies, or liberals taking away American guns.

Hey, remember in 2012 when the world ended after Obama forcibly rounded up all our weapons? Oh, right, that was a bunch of unfounded nonsense and scare mongering.

You notice how music, film, television, and so on are still around? Weird how your predictions have no real-world predictive value.
 

Baresark

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Happyninja42 said:
Baresark said:
I do feel that comparisons to TF2 are 100% unavoidable though. I mean, it's the same kind of idea it looks like with cartoony characters and point captures and every class being unique and all... though Blizzard is not known for their hats, so that is kind of win in my camp anyway.
No, they're known for their shoulderpads. xD You know for once I'd like to hear a Blizzard character when you click on them enough, make a joke about the obnoxiously huge shoulderpads.
Haha, I hadn't thought about that. It would be fantastic if they were at least a little self aware of that particular propensity.