Blizzcon - World of Warcraft - Warlords of Draenor

michael87cn

New member
Jan 12, 2011
922
0
0
This is how MMORPGs work. The first couple expansions add a lot of content, and then over the years they slowly decrease their work load, so they can decrease their expenditure, so they can increase their profits, and players are so addicted they don't care that they are continually getting less and less for the same amount of money.

Anyone remember EverQuest?

They recently release their 20th Expansion pack. Wow! What a milestone.

Guess how much it costs, $39.99.

Yeah. Guess what you get...

A 32 slot bag. Yes, a BAG upgrade is the first highlighted expansion feature. HOUSING items, a Gargoyle Statue, 2 Paintings, and a Tirun House Pet/Familiar.

Then, this:


Mercenary Alternate Advancements (AAs) ? A specialized line of AAs that will enable players to customize the skills of mercenaries and make them even more powerful.
Mercenary Gear ? The ability for player to manage Mercenary equipment and provide them with powerful weapons and armor.
Heroic Adventures ? Mission style content that allow for unique experiences each time you play through them, including a chance at new loot, rares, and currency you can collect and spend at special merchants!

(Do you like playing by yourself? This stuff enhances that!!!!)

Shared Bank Slots (2) (Because swapping gear is too slow already with the current number of shared slots!)
More Spells, Alternate Advancements (AAs) and Gear
New Raids (for the dozen or so people that still play end game EQ!)
New Tradeskill Recipes
Several New Zones Including West Karana, Neriak 4th Gate, Bixie Warfront and the Deadhills!

And here we have what looks like a revamp of 2 old zones (probably just graphical upgrades) and TWO new zones to explore in! WOW!

Not much, is it? If you pay $90 you get the collectors edition! With a 36 slot bag and a mount, basically. . . .
 

EternallyBored

Terminally Apathetic
Jun 17, 2013
1,434
0
0
RJ 17 said:
The Madman said:
-Kil'Jaeden The Deceiver, Leader of the Burning Legion.
-Queen Azshara, possibly the most powerful mortal on Azeroth and still MIA.
-Sylvanas, because let's be honest here it's only a matter of time before she turns on everyone.
-The Old Gods, who are still around doing Lovecraft stuff and not dying.
-Sargeras, the big baddie of the entire Warcraft setting.

Not to mention Kel'Thuzad was never actually killed and neither were a bunch of Dreadlords, so that's at least a couple old B list villains right there that are still around. Somewhere.
Pretty sure Kil'Jaeden ended up being the final boss of Burning Crusade...and he's dead now.

Queen Azshara: Pretty sure she died in the Sundering. I'd sincerely have to hope that if she didn't they'd do something with her before backpeddling to something as silly as "Pre-Outland Draenor!" with a story that contradicts the story of the Caverns of Time. I mean didn't Illidan raise her castle out of the ocean in Frozen Throne when he called the Naga to his side? If she's still around, wouldn't we have heard from her by now?

Sylvanas is the leader of one of the races, so you might as well say that the leaders of the Blood Elves are fair game, that Thrall is fair game, and that the Arch Druid is fair game as well.

The Old Gods would be a bland fall-back seeing as how Arthas kills one in Frozen Throne and then we all killed one in Anubaraq or however it's spelled.

Sargeras: I'm still pretty sure that he's dead, though to be fair everyone I've spoken to assures me that he's still very much alive. THIS would be the only valid villain remaining in my book if he is indeed still alive. Though just like with Azshara, I'd have to hope they would have done something with him by now rather than going to Panda Land and now back to Draenor. I mean if they were going to do something with him, it should be now, shouldn't it? The level cap is a nice juicy 100 with this new expansion, seems as good a time as any to bust him out.

The reason they're not doing anything with him (if indeed he is still alive) is because if they did, they'd know they'd officially have to end the game after him. And like I said: they're not interested in ending the game, they're going to ride this gravy train until the biscuit wheels fall off and the engine blows up like Draenor after Ner'Zhul was done with it.

As for Kel'Thuzad and the Dread Lords: the frickin' Lich King - lord of all undead - has been defeated. His "advisor" and lieutenants aren't even worth the snot running out a dwarf in Northrend's nose.
Kil'Jaeden is probably still alive you only banish him back to the Outlands in Sunwell. He's hanging out with the rest of the burning legion at this point. That whole thing kind of got sidetracked by Arthas and the Old gods

Azshara is in that limbo where characters go when they aren't confirmed dead. She's likely hanging with the last old god somewhere. Not to mention they already ressurrected deathwing, so Azshara's status is probably, "whenever we feel like using her".

The old gods are almost all dead at this point, I think there's only like 1 or 2 left that haven't been fought.

As for Sylvanas, Garrosh spent an entire expansion as leader of the horde before coming a raid boss and he seems to be one of the major villains of this expansion. So anythings possible with here, it would kind of suck though to have two horde leaders end up as evil raid bosses.

Sargeras is definitely still alive and kicking somewhere, leading the burning legion and conquering other worlds. He's never really been seen though as he's pretty much the ultimate end boss, and the last real main bad guy left from the old games. So yeah, you're basically right on this one since, Blizzard can't pull this guy out until the grand finale.

As for the rest of it, yeah it's Blizzard trying to stall things as long as it can, they don't really have any of the A list villains left except the big bad that only gets mentioned and never seen.
 

aozgolo

New member
Mar 15, 2011
1,033
0
0
RJ 17 said:
The Madman said:
-Kil'Jaeden The Deceiver, Leader of the Burning Legion.
-Queen Azshara, possibly the most powerful mortal on Azeroth and still MIA.
-Sylvanas, because let's be honest here it's only a matter of time before she turns on everyone.
-The Old Gods, who are still around doing Lovecraft stuff and not dying.
-Sargeras, the big baddie of the entire Warcraft setting.

Not to mention Kel'Thuzad was never actually killed and neither were a bunch of Dreadlords, so that's at least a couple old B list villains right there that are still around. Somewhere.
Pretty sure Kil'Jaeden ended up being the final boss of Burning Crusade...and he's dead now.

Queen Azshara: Pretty sure she died in the Sundering. I'd sincerely have to hope that if she didn't they'd do something with her before backpeddling to something as silly as "Pre-Outland Draenor!" with a story that contradicts the story of the Caverns of Time. I mean didn't Illidan raise her castle out of the ocean in Frozen Throne when he called the Naga to his side? If she's still around, wouldn't we have heard from her by now?

Sylvanas is the leader of one of the races, so you might as well say that the leaders of the Blood Elves are fair game, that Thrall is fair game, and that the Arch Druid is fair game as well.

The Old Gods would be a bland fall-back seeing as how Arthas kills one in Frozen Throne and then we all killed one in Anubaraq or however it's spelled.

Sargeras: I'm still pretty sure that he's dead, though to be fair everyone I've spoken to assures me that he's still very much alive. THIS would be the only valid villain remaining in my book if he is indeed still alive. Though just like with Azshara, I'd have to hope they would have done something with him by now rather than going to Panda Land and now back to Draenor. I mean if they were going to do something with him, it should be now, shouldn't it? The level cap is a nice juicy 100 with this new expansion, seems as good a time as any to bust him out.

The reason they're not doing anything with him (if indeed he is still alive) is because if they did, they'd know they'd officially have to end the game after him. And like I said: they're not interested in ending the game, they're going to ride this gravy train until the biscuit wheels fall off and the engine blows up like Draenor after Ner'Zhul was done with it.

As for Kel'Thuzad and the Dread Lords: the frickin' Lich King - lord of all undead - has been defeated. His "advisor" and lieutenants aren't even worth the snot running out a dwarf in Northrend's nose.
Sargeras is in my mind, without a doubt, intended to be the final boss of Warcraft, it's either him or the entire Pantheon of Titans but he most likely will be saved for the final expansion.

Queen Azshara if I'm not mistaken is still around, she was transformed along with the rest of her Highborne into the Naga after The Sundering and while there's rumors of her death floating about, there's also lore-contradictions of it. It would be rather simple to bring her out as a boss in a future expansion.

Kil'jaedan was not killed at the Sunwell but merely cast back into the Twisting Nether, his other half, Archimonde is truly dead however.

We swapped out Thrall for a new Warcheif for 2 whole expansions, it wouldn't be that difficult to replace Sylvanas with someone else as head of the Forsaken (though I can't think of anyone with enough notability), though it would be more interesting to involve her in some kind of redemption plot-line instead of just turning her into a boss.


As for the Old Gods... we still have 1 unaccounted for, possibly 2 if the skull in Darkshore isn't actually an Old God (even if it is he can still be fought through some fancy time traveling.)

So yeah there's still major villains left to fight in the Warcraft universe.
 

The Madman

New member
Dec 7, 2007
4,404
0
0
RJ 17 said:
Pretty sure Kil'Jaeden ended up being the final boss of Burning Crusade...and he's dead now.
I actually did that raid, long after it was already outdated content but still I did it and you never kill Kil'Jaeden, you just prevent him from entering Azeroth. That's it. He's still alive and well out there somewhere as leader of the Burning Legion.

RJ 17 said:
Queen Azshara: Pretty sure she died in the Sundering.
Nope, she's also still around. What's-her-face, the naga that helps out Illidan, even mentions that they still serve Queen Azshara in Warcraft 3. Just like Kil'Jaeden we know for certain she's still alive and out there somewhere.

RJ 17 said:
Sylvanas is the leader of one of the races, so you might as well say that the leaders of the Blood Elves are fair game, that Thrall is fair game, and that the Arch Druid is fair game as well.
So was Garrosh and he was apparently the main baddie in Pandaria, being a faction leader doesn't make you immune and again, let's be honest here, it's only a matter of time before Sylvanas time comes.

RJ 17 said:
The Old Gods would be a bland fall-back seeing as how Arthas kills one in Frozen Throne and then we all killed one in Anubaraq or however it's spelled.
We've fought them a couple times but you can't actually kill an Old God. They're very much a lovecraftian monster in that they 'exist outside life and death'. Best we can do is knock em down every time they start becoming powerful enough to manifest again, plus there's two we fight: C'Thun and the one in Ulduar, out of a total 5 meaning there should be three more on Azeroth somewhere. Plus again C'Thun and other guy aren't even dead, just beaten.

I've heard some people argue the Old Gods are the real major baddie in the Warcraft setting, but I still think Sargeras is number one if only because he's been a part of the lore from the beginning. Speaking of which...

RJ 17 said:
Sargeras: I'm still pretty sure that he's dead, though to be fair everyone I've spoken to assures me that he's still very much alive.
Yep, he's still alive. Apparently floating somewhere in the Twisting Nether after Medivh was killed, but beyond that we don't know where he is or what he's been up to, but he's still out there.

Probably save him for the very last however seeing as he's pretty much the closest Warcraft has to the Devil.
 

Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
1,739
0
0
Shaun Kennedy said:
So yes we have new game content as is necessary for it to be an expansion but...

NO new races
NO new classes
Correct

However the level cap is 100, with level 100 talent on every class.
A couple other new in-game stuff.
 

Baldr

The Noble
Jan 6, 2010
1,739
0
0
The Madman said:
I've heard some people argue the Old Gods are the real major baddie in the Warcraft setting, but I still think Sargeras is number one if only because he's been a part of the lore from the beginning.
I agree Sargeras is the end-all end-game. However the old god Nzoth is the a major enemy that needs to be addressed.
 

Compatriot Block

New member
Jan 28, 2009
702
0
0
RJ 17 said:
The Madman said:
-Kil'Jaeden The Deceiver, Leader of the Burning Legion.
-Queen Azshara, possibly the most powerful mortal on Azeroth and still MIA.
-Sylvanas, because let's be honest here it's only a matter of time before she turns on everyone.
-The Old Gods, who are still around doing Lovecraft stuff and not dying.
-Sargeras, the big baddie of the entire Warcraft setting.

Not to mention Kel'Thuzad was never actually killed and neither were a bunch of Dreadlords, so that's at least a couple old B list villains right there that are still around. Somewhere.
Pretty sure Kil'Jaeden ended up being the final boss of Burning Crusade...and he's dead now.

Queen Azshara: Pretty sure she died in the Sundering. I'd sincerely have to hope that if she didn't they'd do something with her before backpeddling to something as silly as "Pre-Outland Draenor!" with a story that contradicts the story of the Caverns of Time. I mean didn't Illidan raise her castle out of the ocean in Frozen Throne when he called the Naga to his side? If she's still around, wouldn't we have heard from her by now?

Sylvanas is the leader of one of the races, so you might as well say that the leaders of the Blood Elves are fair game, that Thrall is fair game, and that the Arch Druid is fair game as well.

The Old Gods would be a bland fall-back seeing as how Arthas kills one in Frozen Throne and then we all killed one in Anubaraq or however it's spelled.

Sargeras: I'm still pretty sure that he's dead, though to be fair everyone I've spoken to assures me that he's still very much alive. THIS would be the only valid villain remaining in my book if he is indeed still alive. Though just like with Azshara, I'd have to hope they would have done something with him by now rather than going to Panda Land and now back to Draenor. I mean if they were going to do something with him, it should be now, shouldn't it? The level cap is a nice juicy 100 with this new expansion, seems as good a time as any to bust him out.

The reason they're not doing anything with him (if indeed he is still alive) is because if they did, they'd know they'd officially have to end the game after him. And like I said: they're not interested in ending the game, they're going to ride this gravy train until the biscuit wheels fall off and the engine blows up like Draenor after Ner'Zhul was done with it.

As for Kel'Thuzad and the Dread Lords: the frickin' Lich King - lord of all undead - has been defeated. His "advisor" and lieutenants aren't even worth the snot running out a dwarf in Northrend's nose.
Kil'jaeden is not dead. He was forced back through the portal and you loot something he drops. I think it was an amulet or something.

Azshara is also not dead.

Sargeras is definitely not dead. He's a Titan, so it may not even be possible for him to die. He falls into the "Eternal" category.

Arthas does not kill an Old God. He fights (but does not kill) Illidan, though.

We've got plenty of villains left to manhandle.

EDIT: By the time I actually clicked post, a bunch of other people had responded. Slow Block is slow.
 

LetalisK

New member
May 5, 2010
2,769
0
0
Terminate421 said:


It looks cool. My Worgen Deathknight now has something to beat the shit out of more.
Pretty much. It's exactly like the unvindicated knee-jerk moaning we saw about the pandarians mostly from people who don't even play the game anymore(including myself, mind you) and have no intention to return, but rather just use WoW as a convenient pinata. History repeats itself. The part that really gets me is how people think this is too convoluted and can't seem to wrap their mind around a concept that has been nursed in WoW for several expansions. Besides, if Blizzard is known for(and at fault for) anything, it's for their incredibly simplistic stories. I see no reason to assume this will be any different. If it's going to be anything, it's going to be simple and cliche. Not complex.

OT: I might get this expansion in the middle of its cycle, but I dunno. I like that Blizzard evolves and adds to the gameplay with its expansions, but I just don't think I'm an MMO person anymore. Or maybe I just don't enjoy the WoW format anymore.
 

Aussie502

New member
Apr 19, 2011
111
0
0
Zaydin said:
The story is evidently that before the verdict n the trial of Garrosh Hellscream, Garrosh somehow escapes and goes back in time to when he felt the 'True' Horde was at its prime, when the great Orcish heroes were at their prime, with the goal of preventing the corruption of the orcs at the hand of the Burning Legion, and he wants to create an Iron Horde to send to the present to try and destroy Azeroth for revenge. So an army of Orcs from 35 years in the past trying to come forward 35 years with tech from the present thanks to Garrosh. Chris Metzen has said Garrosh will not be the final boss, though. So it seems like it's an alternate timeline now. It's still kind of confusing to me.
I've heard a rumour that Wrathion is the one that frees Garrosh and uses a Bronze Dragonflight artifact to transport them back in time to lead the 'True' Horde before they are corrupted from demon blood. Wrathion believes that they are the only chance of stopping the Burning Legion, even if it means destroying all the other races. It makes sense considering how much he spoke about the coming darkness in the legendary quest chain.
 

Brandon237

New member
Mar 10, 2010
2,959
0
0
Meh, I am only interested in Blizzcon for the OMGWTFBBQ epic starcraft that is going down.
The Heroes of the Storm also doesn't seem so bad from all accounts... but the starcraft has been good!
 

chozo_hybrid

Jund 'Em Out!
Jul 15, 2009
3,456
0
0
I just want a Warcraft 4... Taking an RTS and making it an MMO and never releasing another of its original genre just hasn't made sense to me :(
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

New member
Aug 22, 2010
2,577
0
0
It's like these bastards can sense me jonsing for a fix of spacegoats hitting people with Mjolnir........Ah hell, looks like I'm signing up again come release day. Damn my lack of self-control.
 

Danial

New member
Apr 7, 2010
304
0
0
chozo_hybrid said:
I just want a Warcraft 4... Taking an RTS and making it an MMO and never releasing another of its original genre just hasn't made sense to me :(
Google Heroes of the Storm, its not the WC style RTS, but its at least a return to the area, also, Makes no sense? its the most profitable MMO of all time, what doesn't make sense?
 

teqrevisited

New member
Mar 17, 2010
2,343
0
0
I wonder if this means they'll find a way to include Alleria & Turalyon. Not that I think I can be arsed with raiding again. I threw the lot out of the window way back when Crusaders' Coliseum hit the live build with all of the overwhelming force of a soggy sponge.
 

RJ 17

The Sound of Silence
Nov 27, 2011
8,687
0
0
Compatriot Block said:
We've got plenty of villains left to manhandle.
And each one of the proposed villains would be lamer than the last.

Even if Kil'Jaeden isn't dead, you've already kicked his ass once. So what, you wanna just keep fighting the same buggers over and over again and call that fun?

After all you've been through, I REALLY can't imagine Azshara being much of a threat...like, at all.

Pretty sure Arthas does kill an old god on his way through the ancient nerubian kingdom. If The Forgotten One isn't an old god, then I just really have to wonder why C'Thun looked damn near identical to it.

As I mentioned in response to someone else, the only interesting villain left would be Saergaras. And as I went on to mention, the reason they're not busting him out is because if they did they'd finally have to call an end to the game itself, and they're not interested in ending wow, they're only interested in milking it as long as they possibly can. Getting back to my original point before possible villains even became an topic: the fact that this next expansion is going back to Draenor before it explodes so you can fight the old Horde "to prevent Azeroth's bloody past from repeating itself" (which is a blatant contradiction of the Caverns of Time story line) is proof that they're getting desperate.

Instant-Boost to 90 is further proof.

The Madman said:
As I said above: re-hashing old bosses - even if still alive - would be about as pathetic as this next expansion sending you back to Draenor.

Old Gods: been there, killed that...twice already.

Kil'Jaeden: been there, killed that.

Silvanas: She was a leader since vanilla WoW, so was Thrall. Notice how a new warchief pops up then becomes evil? When someone usurps Silvanas, then the Foresaken will become evil. And even if Silvanas does eventually become evil, it still falls under "old hat" because, apparently (I stopped playing WoW after Burning Crusade) one of the race leaders has already pulled that stunt.

Azshara: Like I mentioned above, considering everything you've killed, the leader of the Naga is someone I really just can't see as a big enough threat to base an entire expansion around. If she's still alive, considering the fact that she masturbates to the thought of being Sargeras', she'll likely pop up when/if they finally make the last expansion with the Dark Titan in it.

And again, keeping with the main point of my original post in this topic: rehashing and reusing the same plot devices (Race Leader going evil) and same bosses (Kil'Jaeden and the Old Gods) would be just as big of a sign of desperate "PLEEEEEEASE KEEP PLAYING!" writing as this upcoming expansion.

Shaun Kennedy said:
See the above responses.

EternallyBored said:
As for the rest of it, yeah it's Blizzard trying to stall things as long as it can, they don't really have any of the A list villains left except the big bad that only gets mentioned and never seen.
Thank you, and I do mean that. That's all I've been trying to say this entire time.

As for the rest, see the above responses. :p

Edit: Honestly, people...I'd be more interested in an expansion that featured a mega-alliance between the Harpies, Gnolls, Kobolds, and frickin' Murlocs over the dreck they've been offering up lately. Just have all the underdog mobs form a massive army and start invading towns and cities. I'd argue that'd be MUCH more creative than an expansion that (at least from what the trailer claims) completely contradicts already established story lines in the game.
 

Tsukuyomi

New member
May 28, 2011
308
0
0
teqrevisited said:
I wonder if this means they'll find a way to include Alleria & Turalyon. Not that I think I can be arsed with raiding again. I threw the lot out of the window way back when Crusaders' Coliseum hit the live build with all of the overwhelming force of a soggy sponge.
Oh man, I remember those days. If you ever play and feel REALLY bored, round up some friends and take a stroll through Icecrown Citadel for fun. Where the Coliseum was meh, I think Icecrown actually was at least an interesting raid. It at least FELT like what it was supposed to be.

As for the expansion...well, I'm interested at least. Time Travel is not unprecedented in WoW. The Caverns of Time are indeed a thing. Quite a fun thing at times, too. Thus far I recognize a few figures from lore, and the lack of fel corruption does make some sense as I recall from one of the novels. I'm not really sure what's so convoluted about their storyline. This is Draenor. Complete, whole, not filled with demons and giant portals to the Nether or any other foul thing. We may see places that we know from Outland, but I'd imagine they'll do their best to make things different yet familiar.

No new class or race is slightly disappointing, but perhaps this means that they'll focus time and energy onto making the raids, dungeons, and leveling experience better if they don't have to sit around building a new race or class. Honestly I can't see what else they would add in terms of classes, races I'm sure something could be found but it'd be sketchy at best.
 

Iceklimber

New member
Feb 5, 2013
52
0
0
Chris Metzen actually explained it quiet well:

WoW is 19 years old and some of the most Badass Characters& Events were around in Warcraft1&2. Blizzard gives a chance for new players to find out who they were and where it happened, and shows Veteran players how it looked like with new technology.
 

Muspelheim

New member
Apr 7, 2011
2,023
0
0
Gordon_4 said:
It's like these bastards can sense me jonsing for a fix of spacegoats hitting people with Mjolnir........Ah hell, looks like I'm signing up again come release day. Damn my lack of self-control.
I must admit, I can feel being slightly suckered in, as well. Mainly because it'll be the first time in years the dear old space goats gets to do anything. I've got a softspot for those poor, blue space russians that seem to get genocided wherever they show their tendrilly faces.

Iceklimber said:
Chris Metzen actually explained it quiet well:

WoW is 19 years old and some of the most Badass Characters& Events were around in Warcraft1&2. Blizzard gives a chance for new players to find out who they were and where it happened, and shows Veteran players how it looked like with new technology.
What worries me is that Metzen is a man of good ideas with appaling execution. It -is- a rather neat idea, now that you say it, but I worry that they might just flush a decade of development down the drain with a reboot. They are, sadly, stupid enough to do that.
But they might not, and if they do restrain themselves, it isn't a half-bad idea, at all, feeling the winds of history more or less at ground zero.

Live in hope, I suppose.
 

Vegosiux

New member
May 18, 2011
4,381
0
0
The only comment I could think of?

"In other news, in the back rooms of Blizzcon, we found a motorcycle jump ramp, and a shark tank."

Seriously...it's almost textbook.
 

Diddy_Mao

New member
Jan 14, 2009
1,189
0
0
Here's what I don't understand.

For years all I've been hearing is how WoW refuses to "advance the plot" relying too much on the super villains established in the RTS games and not really doing anything new.

Now that they've run out and have had to start developing new concepts and revisiting characters and concepts introduced in WoW. They're "treading water" and "padding the game" because they don't have any villains left.



If there's ever been a prime example of "do what makes sense as a developer because you'll never please all your fans" it's the WoW community at large.

Or, as has become my standard battlecry whenever new content is released and the trade chat butthurt flows freely.

"Everything new ruins everything forever!"