Blogger Denied Refund for Game EA Won't Let Him Play

Baresark

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D_987 said:
Andy Chalk said:
See post 7 - the article is highly inaccurate; as on both accounts EA do state, in the item description, that the player must be 13+, and that no refund is possible.

aashell13 said:
and of course no refund for a product you can't use. sounds like par for the course for EA.
Do explain how EA are meant to work out if the player has deleted the game from his hard-drive when they offer a refund? This isn't Steam on which games can be removed from your account.


They don't have to have it deleted. They won't be able to sign on to play the game when it's removed from the EA account. As an example, I can have a pirated Steam game on my computer, but I can't sign onto Steam and play with it online simply because it's on my hard drive.

As far as post 7 is concerned, it's simply emulating the ESRB rating of the game. I can buy my 9 year old a game rated T for Teen, but he can't buy it himself. That is what the rating system is in place for, to help parents know what is appropriate. But if a parent deems it appropriate, then they shouldn't be able to block the child. And they certainly shouldn't be allowed to steal from people based on that.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Well, I have mixed opinions on this one.

To be honest, right now we're facing a situation where the gaming industry is under pressure for there not being enough attention paid to enforcing ratings. There is even a case before The Supreme Court over this one. If EA just knowingly let kids get access to these kinds of games, that's a big issue.

Now, one thing I will point out though is that while a lot can be said about parental responsibility, and parental rights, there are things parents can't do with their children. While rarely enforced, technically the "PG" rating stands for "Parental Guidance" which means that parents have the choice, and are supposed to accompany their child (or give direct approval on the spot). In the case of an "R" rating, that means restricted and that even with parental approval kids are not supposed to be admitted to those movies, the same applies to an "X" rating. In nasty divorce cases and the like one parent allowing a minor to watch "R" rated movies has been used as a hammer for this reason, since technically it's negligent behavior. In cases where an adult accompanies a kid into an X-rated movie, we're getting to the "Child Services" level.

With the industry under the pressure it's facing now, the last thing that EA needs is for someone to have examples of them giving kids access to "M" rated games which are akin to the "R" rating when they technically aren't supposed to, even with parental permission.


Ratings are tricky because they aren't set by the goverment, there really isn't a way of arresting someone for violating ratings, which is exactly what the whole supreme court case is about. This is also why most theaters aren't going to make a big deal if some kid goes to an "R" rated movie accompanied by their parents. If the parents are there, nobody is going to make the complaint. The game industry however is currently under a microscope, and it doesn't have to just worry about the parents right now.

I'll also say that the parent in question probably shot himself in the foot when he went public with this. I'm not sure when he actually started complaining in a public sense. See, with what is going on EA backing down could be held against the ratings system. The more people aware of the situation (and there are people looking for just this kind of thing right now) the better the chance it will be used someplace EA wouldn't want it to be mentioned.

All told, I am not a huge fan of EA's business practices, but at the same time I can't fault them for this right now.

EA needs to get itself organized however, truthfully this might be the right thing to do, but it's both surprising and hypocritical coming from the same company that came up with that "Dead Space 2" ad campaign. Of course then again, now that it's become fairly public, I suppose EA can take this case as a counterpoint if officially challenged, so they can say "we are very strict in enforcing the ratings, that Ad campaign was *JUST* an Ad campaign, even if it was ill conceived we *obviously* do not condone minors getting "M" rated games under any circumstances... even if an obviously negligent parent gives permission".
 

puffenstuff

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D_987 said:
Baresark said:
Though it's morally reprehensible, and I would love to sit here and think of ways that these other two fellas are wrong, the guy should have paid more attention. Microsoft and EA are both guilty of being terrible to their customers, exploiting customers, and overall lousy business practices (We all know how bad EA is). I wish to hell the guy paid more attention.
This is the only important bit; we can have all the arguments over morals and so forth, but at the end of the day the person in question didn't pay attention - and legally lost their money as a result. The system should be fixed, but I don't agree by any means that it's entirely the big companies fault here.
Oh, no, no, no. Let's set up an analogous situation (based on actual events). I send a 17 year old intern to buy dry ice at the store. What I don't know is that the state I am in does not allow anyone under 18 to purchase dry ice. You are saying that the clerk should take his money (my firm's money actually) and then refuse to give him the dry ice? Further, I should not be entitled to a refund? You, good sir, are off your rocker.
 

Hairetos

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rees263 said:
Can't they just make a new live account with the age set high enough?

I don't have an Xbox so I'm not really sure how it works, but I do know that my friend has several different profiles on his Xbox. Is it because the console can only have 1 "control" account? What happens if you get a second hand Xbox? Are you screwed if the previous owner was a child?
They'd need to pay for another gold account, which is another 50 bucks.
 

Hulten

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Oct 14, 2010
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What the fuck EA! Really?

They are like videogame Nazis.

You can't play this and now here is 20 EA points to re-spend in our store just so we can get your money anyway after denying you your original game.
 

Atmos Duality

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SwimmingRock said:
I largely agree with your post, but had to respond to this bit. Mainly because it's true and shouldn't be. Punishing people for honesty and (worse, in my opinion) taking away a parents right to decide how to raise their child in a way which doesn't conflict with the law, is absolutely unacceptable from any company. EA does not get to raise other peoples children for them. That's not their damn business.
No it isn't their business. But there are too many knee-jerk "Save/Protect the childrens" groups out there with too much public sway for these companies to ignore.
Everyone is looking for a convenient scapegoat.
 

night_chrono

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Mar 13, 2008
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Not really on topic with the whole "dick move EA" subject going so far, but relevant with "Child accounts"

I never owned an xbox in my life. I signed up for GFWL, and linked my Zune account into that. This was about four years ago and I was 16 at the time, so I was given a child account. No big I used a different e-mail address as my parents and got on with my life like nothing happened.

Fast forward to a month back when I got a new SSD to use as a boot drive. I installed windows and all my programs, including the zune software. Apparently the EULA had changed since I last agreed to it, so I read it (yes I actually read those), clicked the check box and hit next. Only to be taken to a screen saying my parent needs to login and agree to the EULA. Despite the fact that I am now 20 it did not update to an adult account, and I honestly haven't given enough shits to get it fixed.

*EDIT*

Also doesn't EA require the online account with all their games now? So a nine year old kid couldn't play his copy of Madden, or Need for Speed.

*DOUBLE EDIT*
Can you even use EA store credit on XBL? I was under the impression that M$ wouldn't allow anything other than their space dollars.
 

Rayne870

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Nov 28, 2010
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why didn't he just lie about the age on the account in the first place, he should have seen this coming. After all this is what the ESRB is for.
 

HentMas

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Apr 17, 2009
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D_987 said:
SwimmingRock said:
D_987 said:
...it's pretty widely known what the risks of entering the "correct" date of birth when you're under-age are...
I largely agree with your post, but had to respond to this bit. Mainly because it's true and shouldn't be. Punishing people for honesty and (worse, in my opinion) taking away a parents right to decide how to raise their child in a way which doesn't conflict with the law, is absolutely unacceptable from any company. EA does not get to raise other peoples children for them. That's not their damn business.
I agree, and stated as much with the "it's something for these companies to consider" - but I don't see what choice EA have beyond doing what they're doing.
well, i would argue that they can add the option of password protected parental controll, the same that Microsoft uses, if they are willing to go around the service XBOX is providing to have a better controll on their games, i would think they can add that feature... after all the guy HAD to call EA to activate the game that was purchased in the Marketplace, i never knew that was even obligatory
 

BabyRaptor

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Wow. I think this is the first time I've ever heard the B side of "Won't somebody think of the children?!"

I'm pretty sure the guy could have found this information somewhere, had he bothered to look. And since he knows that his opinions on what kids should be playing are uncommon, you'd think he'd have looked before buying.

Either way, they aren't denying him a refund. He spent 15, and they offered him 20. They just aren't giving him either of the options that he wants.
 

Eldarion

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SwimmingRock said:
D_987 said:
...it's pretty widely known what the risks of entering the "correct" date of birth when you're under-age are...
I largely agree with your post, but had to respond to this bit. Mainly because it's true and shouldn't be. Punishing people for honesty and (worse, in my opinion) taking away a parents right to decide how to raise their child in a way which doesn't conflict with the law, is absolutely unacceptable from any company. EA does not get to raise other peoples children for them. That's not their damn business.
I agree, if the father decides the child is mature enough to play a game no one has any right to tell him otherwise.

Rayne870 said:
why didn't he just lie about the age on the account in the first place, he should have seen this coming. After all this is what the ESRB is for.
That is NOT what the ESRB is for. The ESRB rating are a guide to help parents buy games for their children. Its not the law.
 

BabyRaptor

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puffenstuff said:
Oh, no, no, no. Let's set up an analogous situation (based on actual events). I send a 17 year old intern to buy dry ice at the store. What I don't know is that the state I am in does not allow anyone under 18 to purchase dry ice. You are saying that the clerk should take his money (my firm's money actually) and then refuse to give him the dry ice? Further, I should not be entitled to a refund? You, good sir, are off your rocker.
EA offered him a refund. In fact, they offered him 5 bucks more than he spent. He turned it down because it wasn't what he wanted.
 

CustomMagnum

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BabyRaptor said:
EA offered him a refund. In fact, they offered him 5 bucks more than he spent. He turned it down because it wasn't what he wanted.
Because the credit for the EA store would mean that his kid wouldn't be allowed to play whatever game on his own account anyway.
 

ThePuzzldPirate

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There is a reason EA is saying no, for every honest person, there is six cheating bastards, Ea would be broke in no time.
 

Belated

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D_987 said:
When you buy a game from the marketplace it's specifically stated you can't gain a refund in large bold letters...
Doesn't matter.

EA has a legal responsibility to make the father aware of ALL of the terms of the contract BEFORE the purchase. He didn't consent to those terms because he didn't know those terms were there to consent to. Therefore, there was not a meeting of the minds, and the contract is void.

Simply putting "no refunds" on your product doesn't make it true. If I put "I get to kill you if you piss me off" on my ebay sales, does that make it legal for me to murder angry customers? No. Policy does not allow you to break the law, and that is what EA is doing by not fulfilling their end of the contract. The contract is whatever is presented to the father at the time of purchase, and ONLY what is presented to him then. If EA doesn't put age restrictions in the initial purchase description, they don't have a legal right to impose those EVER. You cannot add additional terms to a contract after the customer has already fulfilled his end and given his consent.

By your logic, if EA threw in "Oh and by the way, you have to take us out to a lobster dinner.", somehow they'd be in the right? A lobster dinner was not detailed during the initial purchase, so EA cannot impose a lobster dinner on the father, just as they can't impose an age restriction on the father, because an age restriction wasn't detailed during the initial purchase either.

The father is legally entitled to a functional game that lets his son in. If the age restrictions weren't put in the terms BEFORE the father paid for it, they don't have a legal right to add those restrictions in AFTER. You cannot change the terms of the agreement after it's already been agreed upon, especially if the customer has already fulfilled his end of the bargain. And the father did, indeed, fulfill HIS end of the bargain. He therefore is legally entitled to a game that doesn't restrict his son from playing, because the age restrictions weren't specified from the start. Thus, the age restrictions cannot be imposed upon him. If EA insists on imposing those restrictions on him, that is a BREACH OF CONTRACT on their part, and he's entitled to his money back.

If he took this to court, I'd honestly say that he does have a case.
 

BabyRaptor

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CustomMagnum said:
BabyRaptor said:
EA offered him a refund. In fact, they offered him 5 bucks more than he spent. He turned it down because it wasn't what he wanted.
Because the credit for the EA store would mean that his kid wouldn't be allowed to play whatever game on his own account anyway.
If there wasn't a single game in the store that would be playable by kids, why would they offer him the credit to begin with? Sure, he couldn't play THAT game, but he could have gotten something else.
 

Stragen

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Sep 21, 2007
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"YOU MUST BE 13+ TO REGISTER WITH EA ONLINE"

Why does that mean you have to be 13+ to play the game?

Last time i checked registering with EA Online =/= playing the game... and further to this, the person registering with EA ONLINE was infact 13+.

It doesnt state the account can not be registered on behalf of someone under the age of 13, and in this case i would also argue that it is being created with the consent of the parent. The broader EA T&C's cover and permit this, so where is the problem? it sounds like a programmer or some exec doesnt understand or mis-interpreted the EA's terms and conditions.