Bolivia's Jenine Áñez finally allows election effectively at gunpoint, loses and is going to jail

[crimson5pheonix]

Unless you count blockading entry and exit to a city of 6 million people, causing shortages of food, fuel, and medicine during a pandemic.

Well you don't.

Because Anez had citizens massacred by soldiers. Because she's the good guy here, clearly.

 

[Silvanus]

You understand that I'm offering the only explanation I can think of where people weren't just morons. Anez planning a coup and then peacefully transitioning power back to people who then throw her in jail would mean she's a moron.

She didn't, though: there was nothing "peaceful" about the suppression and massacre of protesters. She conceded an election only after attempting to cancel it, and being strongarmed by a national shutdown.

The military planning a coup to take power away long term and then following the legal line of succession so that things go right back to normal within a year would also be morons. The military only caring about getting rid of Morales and being roughly indifferent to what comes next? That makes their actions make sense.

It is not the legal line of succession to eliminate all members of the victorious party. There was no legal justification for that in the Bolivian electoral system.

You know what makes more sense than launching a coup with "indifference" about the outcome? Launching a coup with a preferred outcome. You know, like every other coup in history.

 

[tstorm823]

She conceded an election only after attempting to cancel it, and being strongarmed by a national shutdown.

And for you to think that, you have to believe on pure inference that Anez planned the coup to gain power for herself, and almost immediately started planning an election that she intended to cancel the whole time, and the pandemic showing up was just super conveniently timed.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

And for you to think that, you have to believe on pure inference that Anez planned the coup to gain power for herself, and almost immediately started planning an election that she intended to cancel the whole time, and the pandemic showing up was just super conveniently timed.

Well I mean, she did massacre supporters of her political opponents.

 

[Silvanus]

And for you to think that, you have to believe on pure inference that Anez planned the coup to gain power for herself, and almost immediately started planning an election that she intended to cancel the whole time, and the pandemic showing up was just super conveniently timed.

Firstly, as has already been established, it's not necessary to believe she herself plotted the coup to place herself in charge. The military can plan the coup and contact her. Believe it or not, different political interests do sometimes talk to eachother, particularly when they're planning enormous national upheavals.

Secondly, the idea that she wasn't completely, totally committed to the idea of holding a free election is supported by the fact that security forces massacred political opponents, and that Áñez' defence minister then lied to the press about that massacre taking place. Do you believe that.... the government was totally uninvolved and uninterested in what its own security forces were doing? Why would they be involved in covering it up, exactly? How does this square with the notion that she would definitely have held a free election if she could have done?

 

[tstorm823]

Firstly, as has already been established, it's not necessary to believe she herself plotted the coup to place herself in charge. The military can plan the coup and contact her. Believe it or not, different political interests do sometimes talk to eachother, particularly when they're planning enormous national upheavals.

Secondly, the idea that she wasn't completely, totally committed to the idea of holding a free election is supported by the fact that security forces massacred political opponents, and that Áñez' defence minister then lied to the press about that massacre taking place. Do you believe that.... the government was totally uninvolved and uninterested in what its own security forces were doing? Why would they be involved in covering it up, exactly? How does this square with the notion that she would definitely have held a free election if she could have done?

But that's not what happened. You make it sound like they hunted down MAS officials and slaughtered them, when the truth is that a few dozen people died in violent clashes with the police. You all act as though MAS was being eliminated, but leadership of MAS after Morales stepped down fairly quickly had agreed to a new election and were publicly calling on their supporters to stop protesting. While Morales was still saying "I'll be back", other members of his party were publicly saying "no he won't, we're going to have another election and run fresh candidates." They were cooperative with their political opponents. The people who died were those who were basically willing to fight a revolution for pretty much specifically Morales, the would-be king of Bolivia. And the winners in all of this are the MAS politicians who aren't Evo Morales. If you think this was a coup planned to take MAS out of power, you have to believe it was the most incompetent coup in history.

 

[crimson5pheonix]

Morales, the would-be king of Bolivia.

Oh, and you're still supporting someone who massacred her own people after violently seizing power from a democratically elected leader and trying to pretend like you have a moral leg to stand on.

 

[Seanchaidh]

The people who died were those who were basically willing to fight a revolution for pretty much specifically Morales, the would-be king of Bolivia.

The guy who got the most votes in the election that they just had

 

[Silvanus]

But that's not what happened. You make it sound like they hunted down MAS officials and slaughtered them, when the truth is that a few dozen people died in violent clashes with the police. You all act as though MAS was being eliminated, but leadership of MAS after Morales stepped down fairly quickly had agreed to a new election and were publicly calling on their supporters to stop protesting. While Morales was still saying "I'll be back", other members of his party were publicly saying "no he won't, we're going to have another election and run fresh candidates." They were cooperative with their political opponents. The people who died were those who were basically willing to fight a revolution for pretty much specifically Morales, the would-be king of Bolivia. And the winners in all of this are the MAS politicians who aren't Evo Morales. If you think this was a coup planned to take MAS out of power, you have to believe it was the most incompetent coup in history.

Ah yes, because monarchs are well known for ruling only with a democratic mandate expressed in an election. The defining feature of monarchy, that.

The people who died were protesters, and were the target of political repression. If you believe that repression is something that only occurs when people are "hunted down", then I encourage you to look at Tiananmen, or any of the other countless examples of authoritarians stamping out public dissent through force of arms.

Also: no explanation for the government's defence minister publicly lying about it taking place, saying that not a single bullet had been fired? Are we still to believe the coup government and the military/ security forces acted with zero communication, even when the former was caught covering up the crimes of the latter?

 

[Seanchaidh]

Bolivian Ex-Minister of Defense Plotted a Second Coup Using U.S. Mercenaries

Leaked phone recordings and emails reveal a top official was prepared to use foreign troops to block Bolivia’s left-wing MAS party from returning to power.

theintercept.com

Far from the bravado of some days prior, the former paratrooper appears to have gone to ground. “Tell López’s mother,” the speaker continues, “that probably his only option of getting out of this alive, free, or as president of Bolivia is for him to pick up our call. … Her son is already in a lot of danger,” he adds, “I have to talk with him, and he has to stop committing errors.”

In a subsequent recording, Pereira concludes: “He’s shitting in his pants right now.”

In the event, the coup never materialized, and the threat to Bolivian democracy appears to have subsided. Arce was sworn in as president of Bolivia on November 8, 2020, a day after most mainstream media outlets called the U.S. presidential election for Joe Biden. Morales returned to Bolivia soon afterward and has appeared at MAS party rallies, but has not taken a formal government post. Arce fired the military commanders Áñez promoted, including Orellana, and replaced them with officers believed to be more loyal.