Brenda Romero Resigns IGDA Post Over GDC Party - UPDATED

Razorback0z

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JarinArenos said:
Razorback0z said:
You quoted me, but ignored my first point. She wasn't "leaving a position where she could have made a difference". Her resignation made a grand total difference of *three days*. It was a statement, nothing more.
I was replying to Akalabeth and my reply actually supports your point. Read it again.

"given her current circumstances" <-- the reference to your valid point.
 

Baresark

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Akalabeth said:
Baresark said:
Akalabeth said:
Baresark said:
TL;DR: I'm all for her fighting against things she doesn't agree with, but martyrdom in this situation and throwing away her position of power is just childish.
It's called having principles.
That was quick. I figured it was only a matter of time before someone had something smug to say, but one sentence is very disappointing. It's completely flawed reasoning to remove herself from her position of substantial power just because of some dancers. And her overreaction, even one based off of principles, does not forward her cause in any way. She could have complained after the fact and gotten the rules changed, maybe enlightened people about something she did not agree with. Now she has made a move that is more divisive than anything else. We should all applaud her on her principles, but she gets negative points on her pride. She is literally crying over spilled milk, which by definition is expressing vain regret over that which cannot be changed or undone. Essentially, she could not change this party, but she could change the next one and all others after that. She still might, but she threw a tantrum and threw away her position of influence when that didn't need to happen. I don't disagree with her gripe, but I disagree with how she handled it.

Edit: What I'm saying may change based on more information. But right now that is what the situation reads as.
No, you're reading all sorts of bullshit into her motivations. Tantrum? Throwing a fit? Crying? Why are you making her sound childish when the quote on the matter is anything but childish? If anyone is being childish it's you because you're assuming the worst of her even when it's contrary to the facts.

When the strongest statement a person can make is resignation, it doesn't display them as proud and arrogant it displays them as someone who understands their own worth. They know that by resigning the association they're with will be worse off, and they also know that to be complicit in something they so strongly disagree with they de-value themselves both in their own mind and the minds of their supporters.
I will continue to read this as a bad decision because she resigned instead of actually trying to change anything. The strongest statement she could have made was to make a public statement about how disappointed she was with the affair and like an adult voiced her opinion and actually have changed something. It is complete nonsense to just throw away what she had, her position, which granted her far more power to cause change than anything else. Like I said in my edit, as soon as I see evidence otherwise, such as she was disrespected or people spoke badly of her or hindered her job in some way, or at least received some kind of push back on some statements she could have made condemning the situation. But she was feeling all cloud 9 from the panel and then saw reports on the party (didn't even attend herself) and just quit.

You took some of the things I said out of context. "Crying over spilled milk" is a descriptive analogy for the situation. It means she is essentially upset about things that had already happened that could not be changed. I didn't say she was "crying", I used a descriptive metaphor that you only found insulting because you wanted to find it insulting. I also never used the phrase, "throwing a fit" in any of my statements. I did use tantrum and I still think that is, with the evidence given, an appropriate statement. She resigned her position based on second and third party information presented to her.

You see it how you see it, but I don't see it that way. I applaud anyone willing to stick to their guns, even if I think they picked their fight poorly. It's not like I have less respect for her for doing what she did, I just think it was a mistake and in the long run it won't change much.

As an aside:
As a side note, it's crazy how people are reacting to this situation. Life is all about picking your fights, and this was a stupid fight to pick. Lots of people are resigning due to this stupid event. They are essentially abandoning an organization that does a lot of good over a few girls in skimpy outfits. It's just... it's just so stupid. It's like when everyone was attacking Live Strong because of Lance Armstrong. "Forget the fact that the organization did a lot of good in the world, this one thing is wrong so fuck them". You can fight all you want about this, defend the people who had "principles" or hate the people who had "principles", but you just end up throwing away so much good over literally nothing that affects the game industry in any way.
 

Baresark

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Legion said:
John Funk said:
Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.
They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.
 

Legion

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Baresark said:
Legion said:
John Funk said:
Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.
They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.
Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.

To be honest, John worded it much better than I can think of, the post I quoted him from sums it up. It's the fact that there has been a lot of issues with perceived sexism in the games industry as of late. Hiring dancers as eye candy for the male guests is not the kind of thing a smart company would do during such times.

I have already said before, I think she and other people have overreacted, but it doesn't make the company any less idiotic for doing what they did.
 

Best of the 3

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We're open, so damn open, especially to women. But as soon as we see women doing something that we don't want them to do... rawrblargh!!

Honestly this is getting annoying. It was a party right? People do stupid things at parties, both men and women. Let it slide, have fun and just because it's something you wouldn't do doesn't mean a big fuss has to be made about it. A quiet word or perhaps actually talking to the people you have a problem with would do much more than throwing hissy fits over the internet.
 

DugMachine

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Blown way out of proportion. Party is not professionalism. As far as I'm concerned, whether they were payed or not if you call it a 'party' and throw alcohol into the mix who cares if there are some scantily clad women, hell throw some male strippers I don't care. It's a party.
 

Baresark

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Legion said:
Baresark said:
Legion said:
John Funk said:
Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.
They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.
Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.

To be honest, John worded it much better than I can think of, the post I quoted him from sums it up. It's the fact that there has been a lot of issues with perceived sexism in the games industry as of late. Hiring dancers as eye candy for the male guests is not the kind of thing a smart company would do during such times.

I have already said before, I think she and other people have overreacted, but it doesn't make the company any less idiotic for doing what they did.
I'm with you 100%. It was stupid and insensitive. I just think it's a shame we are living in a world that is increasingly more and more sensitive about less and less. I sometimes wonder what the end game is for movements like this. You could just outlaw women wearing skimpy clothes, but that isn't a positive movement for women because it limits there choices. You could outlaw women from dancing, but that doesn't make any sense either. You can't change society though, not with stuff like this. Removing the supply doesn't remove the demand. Society has to want to change.

I'll use the Civil Rights period as an example: People can attribute the civil rights movement to changing society all they want, but it didn't. Society was changed, integration was accepted in the vast majority of areas and it was only a matter of time before it was everywhere. That period changed the archaic and out of date laws regarding integration. But what is this fight over? There are no laws saying women are less. I don't treat women as less than men, I don't know a single person who does, though I'm sure they exist, they cannot be many. It seems to be over changing society and seeks to do this by identifying problems that go back to the beginning of human kind, before there was laws or whole societies. Going back some 120 thousand years ago when man first started to walk upright and became the alpha species on the planet. Ah, I'm obviously taking this way too far in my head... I digress.
 

Razorback0z

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Brenda doing her best to promote professionalism for women

https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/2481379290/u1ewk4aj3u4zcalb5rv0.jpeg
 

GAunderrated

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Legion said:
Baresark said:
Legion said:
John Funk said:
Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.
They were hired dancers by the organization that payed for the event, YetiZen. They were professional paid to entertain dancers. I just don't know how this changes anything, to be honest. Hired or party go-ers, it's all blown out of proportion.
Of course it is, everything always is.

The fact that there were dancing women in revealing outfits isn't the issue. The problem is to do with the attitude of the people who hired them. It shows a lack of sensitivity as well as a fair few assumptions.
To be honest I think we as a society have become oversensitive to a very disturbing extent. In order to have any sort of "fun" at a "party or social event" you now have to be aware of every single person's sensitivity so you do not offend one person. I hope they don't have any color at the party as it might offend colorblind people. They should also stick to elevator music so they could make sure not to offend anyone's taste in music.

These things pretty much ruin the chance for anyone to actually have any fun. I wouldn't doubt that the next couple of industry parties are going to be as dull as dirt because they are afraid to do anything that might offend someone.

Overall articles like this will just reinforce extreme thinking on both sides because people take everything so seriously when it is really just a joke.
 

Tiamat666

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Last time I checked, sparingly dressed, dancing women were seen at car presentations, racing events, circusses, skating championships, dancing schools, nightclubs, the beach, the academy awards, at every major sports event, and sometimes on the streets in summer.

But THEY WERE ALSO AT AN IGDA PARTY????

I am shocked. Simply shocked, I tell you.
 

ChemicalAlia

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I view shit like this similarly to the issue of booth babes, which is that it's kind of awkward to be around. I've been to a few events in the game industry with similar use of hired dancing girls, and it really sends the message that you're an outsider in the event, and in the industry. There's a huge difference between someone cosplaying to an event or choosing to wear a skimpy outfit, and being hired by those organizing the event to attract/entertain the audience. Whenever that's the case, I will admit to feeling somewhat marginalized, as it sends the message of "of course the industry is just a bunch of guys", and whether or not it could make people uncomfortable is not even a consideration.

This kind of shit happens in this industry constantly. It's not one huge insult that sends you over the edge, but a lot of small incidents like this that build up and make you feel out of place. And if we want to be more welcoming to a broader spectrum of people aside from nerdy white dudes, we can start by acting like they're not the only ones who make up the games industry now.

The only time it was sort of in context for the event was at the DNF launch party, seeing as the theme of the game was raunchy as hell anyway. Still kind of awkward.
 

Razorback0z

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"Overall articles like this will just reinforce extreme thinking on both sides because people take everything so seriously when it is really just a joke"

Overall the joke could be the fact that this is the partner of a guy who declared he would "make us all his *****". To even describe this as irony is ironic.

I doubt Brenda has any idea what she stands for as her words and actions over the years have been at best confused and at worst utterly deceptive.
 

Trishbot

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MarsProbe said:
Seriously, Brenda Romero resigned!? How can the gaming industry possibly continue?

I mean, who in heaven's name is this person and why the bloody hell should we care about what she does? Good fucking riddance, I say.
Brenda Romero is one of the most respected, influential, experienced, and passionate female game developers in the entire industry. She has earned the respect and admiration of her peers, written extensively on the subject of sex and video games, and has dedicated decades of her life to promoting and mentoring talent, especially female talent, in the industry, all while making great strides to broaden the field of video games to be more inclusive to players and developers of different races, genders, creeds, beliefs, and backgrounds.

She's a damn legend in the games industry and has done more for it than most game developers will ever do.

She's one of the reasons I was inspired to become a game designer myself.
 

Razorback0z

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Akalabeth said:
Razorback0z said:
In this instance we are talking about at least one individual (Romero) who has barely ever had a photo taken that could be described as anything other than an attempt at ?glamour?. Given who she is and given her background and current circumstances, I think the motivations are very clear and extremely narcissistic.
I'm sorry, but you try to talk science and then you base your opinion of someone on how you interpret their photos? Really?
So your saying her own behaviour (over many years) in no way undermines her argument in this instance ? Additionally I chose one picture, it could have been many quotes from her, it could have been actions shes taken in relation to game development. I could fill the page with her hipocrisy, but to me that image says it all.

Your entitled to your view.
 

Darken12

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I definitely support Ms. Romero and everyone who protested against that stint, but I dread the inevitable backlash this will evoke. I can practically smell the anti-feminism already rising in this thread in a huge uproar of pure, undiluted rage.

I also love how people can't do a thing to protest what they fight against. They can't even quit their jobs in protest, something that harms nobody but themselves (and is their prerogative), without people jumping at their throats.

Feminism can never, ever do anything right. Ever.
 

John Funk

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Legion said:
John Funk said:
Is it definitely confirmed that they were hired dancers? The articles seem to imply it, but I haven't seen any outright say it.

Considering that nobody has written it as a fact, a lot of people are assuming they were simply normal party goers who happened to be wearing revealing outfits.
...who would go to an industry party in an outfit like that? Yes, they were hired dancers. The IGDA would not have apologized if they were just ordinary party goers.
 

grey_space

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Apr 16, 2012
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JarinArenos said:
Do a little research.

1. The resignation was symbolic. She had *three days* left in her voluntary position. This wasn't her throwing a shitfit and tossing her career away. She's far from the only one, as well. A number of people have stated that they've canceled future association with the company in question.

2. Yetizen was the co-sponsor of the event with the GDC. And at a conference where major panels were held about women in game development, they decided that topless dancers were the way to go. On the arm of the CEO no less. And yes, body-paint from the waist up is topless.
Thanks for the extra info. Do you have a link?

You see that makes much more sense and her reaction now seems personally (to me anyway) much more reasonable.

There is a time and a place for topless dancers and (if true) on the arm of a CEO
and an after work mixer is not fricking one of them.
 
Oct 2, 2012
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Darken12 said:
I definitely support Ms. Romero and everyone who protested against that stint, but I dread the inevitable backlash this will evoke. I can practically smell the anti-feminism already rising in this thread in a huge uproar of pure, undiluted rage.

I also love how people can't do a thing to protest what they fight against. They can't even quit their jobs in protest, something that harms nobody but themselves (and is their prerogative), without people jumping at their throats.

Feminism can never, ever do anything right. Ever.
Apparently not unfortunately.

OT: Good on her. It takes backbone to quit your job period (unless you have another one guaranteed somewhere else) and I think it takes even more to do it over something like belief or ideals.
I don't think it will make much difference in the long run but more forms of protest are always needed.