Building a gaming pc help

werepossum

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Khell_Sennet said:
Ok, nobody touched on this overly much, but...

XP or don't bother.

If you put Vista on your system, you might as well stick with your Mac...
I don't think it's quite that bad. I have several friends who are gamers with Vista computers, and not one has had a serious issue with games or drivers. There have been some minor issues requiring contacting tech support for particular games, but nothing major. I didn't choose it for my new build because I don't think it really brings anything to the party in return for the additional resources it uses. (A video for wallpaper? WTF?) Even minor issues are reason enough not to upgrade if there are no corresponding benefits, but Vista also runs slower than XP on pretty much every game I've seen tested.

I see no benefit for using Vista until there is an actual benefit to DX10. I'm hoping to skip a generation, myself (Vista = Millenium II?)
 

jezz8me

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Mar 27, 2008
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I have been considering raising my budget by $250 just so i can get a computer that will realy satisfy me. Do you think it is worth it if i get this setup.

Concerning the GFX card the consensus on forums discussing MSY's products say that the generic products are god quality for everything except they may not be as good at overclocking which i do not intend to do.


MSY
19? 5ms DVI WS Asus VW193T $223
Intel Core 2 Q6600 2.4GHz $253
Gigabyte EP35-DS3P $159
2x(2GB A-DATA) $90
Maxtor 500GB $106
Pioneer SATA 215BK DL DVD-RW $35
512MG 8800GT Generic $233

CPL
Coolermaster Elite 330 noPSU $49
Coolermaster Extreme 500W PSU $65


Total: $1243
 

Unknown_Exile

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It's quite a nice cheap setup, I just have 2 problems with it first I don't like Maxtor drives but that's just me. Second the processor, for less you could get a E6850 which is pretty much the dual core equivalent of the Q6600, and many benchmarks I've seen would indicate that in gaming the E6850 comes out on top over the Q6600, but in applications it's a mixed bag however I would say the Q6600 is probably better. The E6850 is also more efficiency then the Q6600, at stock speeds it is faster, and it also uses less power, and generates less heat. And since you will be using XP and if you aren't overclocking then I would say go with the E6850, I think it would be a much better choice. But that's just my opinion, when it comes down to it there honestly isn't much difference in performance, and if you were ever entertaining the possibility of using this computer to ever run Vista (Which you shouldn't, see Khell_Sennet's posts for adequate Vista flaming) than perhaps go with the Q6600.

I would also suggest if you haven't already, that you read X-bit labs article http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/cpu/display/core2quad-q6600.html which is their comparison of the Q6600 and the E6850.

Khell_Sennet said:
Hard Drive, I'd reject. Maxtor sucks, they're "Walmart" compared to "Costco". Cheap, disposable, and unreliable. I don't know how pricing is locally for you, but Seagate and Western Digital are better options, I lean towards Seagate, they've taken the top in recent months. Even if you have do downsize to a smaller drive, better to go with quality or you will regret it later. I believe your motherboard was SATA/SATA-II compliant, make sure your HDD is SATA and at least 7200RPM. Here's a nice model, Canadian prices, but should be around the same US [http://www.memoryexpress.com/Products/PID-MX19181(ME).aspx]
Another interesting fact about Maxtor is that you can never find any reliability figures of there drives on there site no MTBF or AFR and whenever you go to there support section you'll get sent to Seagate's support section, since Seagate owns Maxtor, and I doubt that Maxtor is selling cheap versions of Seagate drives, which is sad. Anyway since I live in the same region and know about MSY, its about $10-20 more for Western Digital or Seagate drives. The big difference as you say is performance which Seagate and Western Digital are at the top of, also Seagate has a 5 years limited manufacture warranty (I have no idea what makes it limited) on there hard drives and an AFR of about 0.34% I think, where Western Digital has 3 years manufactures warranty and I can't remember their AFR but I know that Western Digital does design there hard drives with 5 years of solid performance in mind, and I have used Western Digital drives before and they are usually very good quality. Also if your interested in the performance (which you probably are) then tomshardware has performance figures of hard drives http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/
 

werepossum

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For your RAM make sure it's at least PC6400 (DDR2-800). Your Gigabyte front side bus is 1333 or 1600; its memory standard is DDR2-1066 or DDR2-1200, but I'm leary of those because if I recall correctly there were never standards established for the speeds in DDR2. Most of the RAM certified by Gigabyte is DDR2-800; DDR2-1066 or -1200 would give you a bit more head room, but for my money good DDR2-800 is a better buy. If you go below DDR2-800 you'll be losing a few percent in potential.

I used the Q6600 in my last build, but you may be able to find a Yorktown quad for about the same money. They offer better performance at the same clock speeds and more headroom if you ever do overclock. In theory they are cheaper per GHz, but in practice they are more expensive because they're better and use less energy and everyone wants them. It's hard to predict the best CPU for games two or three years down the road; if performance remains weighted toward MHz, then an E6750 or E6850 (or even better, and E8400 or E8500) would be best. I'm betting developers will get better at programming parallel threads since consoles are more popular and console code must be strongly parallel to give great performance and great graphics, so I bet quad core myself.

I too prefer Western Digital hard drives to Maxtor, but I've used plenty of Maxtor drives with no problem. In fact, I've not personally had a hard drive failure in less than three years for probably a decade. I can't remember ever losing any IDE or SATA drives, even among our work computers. The only hard drive failures I've had personally have been Seagate, but that's back in the day of RLL and MFM drives, when MTBF ran around 30,000 hours except for Quantum. (I once ordered a 105MB Quantum hard drive, and the guy told me he had just sold six of the same drive to Jerry Garcia of the Grateful Dead. Who'd have thought the lead man of the Dead would be a computer geek?) The only IDE or SATA hard drive failures I've seen have been Seagate, but they've been in low-end family computers - not a good comparison, since the vast majority of low-end OEM machines use Seagate drives and that class of computer tends to get knocked around. Most business machines I've dealt with have used Seagate drives as well, and I can't remember a drive failure in one of those less than three years old.

You'll love the 8800GT, it's everything the 9600GT is and more. Brands such as XFX, EVGA, and BFG (I think) also offer lifetime warranties, which might be worth a few more bucks even on a limited budget.
 

jezz8me

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Ok seems i should get a Western Digital HDD. $4 Not to much more so it will not matter.

And the ram is DDR-800


The possible brands the generic card is:
ECS
Point Of View
Xpertvision
Palit
Inno3D
Twintech
Sparkle
Forsa
PixelView

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/764678.html
 

werepossum

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jezz8me said:
Ok seems i should get a Western Digital HDD. $4 Not to much more so it will not matter.

And the ram is DDR-800


The possible brands the generic card is:
ECS
Point Of View
Xpertvision
Palit
Inno3D
Twintech
Sparkle
Forsa
PixelView

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/764678.html
ECS is an older Taiwanese company and a name brand on motherboards. Quality from what I've seen on mobos (limited experience) has been generally good, but sometimes uneven. If I had to choose from one of these, I'd choose ECS. (But none of these would be in my top five.)

Palit is a large Chinese electronics manufacturer, and Xpertvision is their house brand. I believe they got into graphics by manufacturing reference boards for other companies, but I could be wrong. When Palit first began selling their own products, they did so under the name 'Xpertvision'. Over the past year I've seen them moving more to 'Palit', but I don't know why. I have no experience as to quality.

Twintech is a similar company, but I think they are much smaller (although I couldn't tell you why I think that.) Again, I have no experience as to quality.

Sparkle is a large Taiwanese manufacturing company, an older company with a good reputation. I've used some of their products in years past without problems, but never a video card. They too make products sold under other brand names, or at least used to. I've gotten products with another name on the box but Sparkle on the product or its data sheet.

Forsa is another Chinese manufacturing company; I know nothing about them.

Point of View is based in Holland; I know nothing about them, although I suspect they do not manufacture graphic cards, but simply market reference boards from other manufacturers. But I could be wrong.

Inno3D is another Chinese manufacturing company; I know nothing about them.

PixelView is a marketing company; I do not know who makes their boards or how well they stand behind them.
 

Ellisia

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For the love of god, ditch the 9000 series and get a 8800GT

I got a 6750 dual core on a gigabyte P35 m/b, running a 32" widescreen. The 9000 series will be great when they release the top spec. Until then get a Gigabyte 8800GT (which runs all day at 48 degrees) for price/performance :)
 

Unknown_Exile

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jezz8me said:
The possible brands the generic card is:
ECS
Point Of View
Xpertvision
Palit
Inno3D
Twintech
Sparkle
Forsa
PixelView

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/764678.html
I've seen Sparkle and Xpertvision cards before but I don't know much about them. What I do know is that these manufactures will probably offer 1 years warranty at the most, and that there cards performance will be close to the performance of the more well know manufactures, you've probably heard this before on whirlpool from various others and I agree with them. The one thing that you should probably do is research the fans on the Generic manufactures graphics cards, specifically how well they keep the cards cool and how loud they are.

I have also noticed that many people are suggesting getting the Gigabyte 8800GT from MSY, here is the post on whirlpool:
"The sparkle 8800Gt uses the reference 8800GT design so it will have reference cooler. The reference cooler is cools the card down but not very well at under load so the card runs quite hot.

If your looking into an 8800GT its most preferably spending $269.00 at MSY and getting a gigabyte 8800GT as its more faster and much cooler than reference 8800GT. Also its more quiet. It will benefit in the long term.

Also that I wouldn't try go for cheap versions of video cards as I did before and ended up having problems. I'd prefer spending a bit more and getting something good and won't have problems in the future."
- zerohour117 http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/949777.html

If you can fit Gigabyte's video card into your budget then I'd say go for it but if you can't then pick whatever you think is best.
 

jezz8me

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Mar 27, 2008
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It is not realy in my budget i will only raise my budget to 1250 unless there is a verry significant change.



NEW SETUP

Intel Core 2 Duo E8200/ 2.66GHz/ 6MB Cache/ 1333FSB/ LGA775=$217
G-B EP35-DS3=$125
W.D. SATA 500G=$99
2G-800 G.Skill=$48
512M 8800GT Generic=$233
Pioneer 20x SATA 215BK DL DVD-RW=$35
Coolermaster Extreme 500W=$65
19? 5ms DVI WS Asus VW193T=$223
all prices above msy
CPL
Cooler Master Elite 330 Tower Case=$49

=$1094
 

werepossum

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Sep 12, 2007
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jezz8me said:
It is not realy in my budget i will only raise my budget to 1250 unless there is a very significant change.



NEW SETUP

Intel Core 2 Duo E8200/ 2.66GHz/ 6MB Cache/ 1333FSB/ LGA775=$217
G-B EP35-DS3=$125
W.D. SATA 500G=$99
2G-800 G.Skill=$48
512M 8800GT Generic=$233
Pioneer 20x SATA 215BK DL DVD-RW=$35
Coolermaster Extreme 500W=$65
19? 5ms DVI WS Asus VW193T=$223
all prices above msy
CPL
Cooler Master Elite 330 Tower Case=$49

=$1094
That's the problem with building computers; there's always something better if you wait just a bit longer or spend just a bit more.

Your setup looks fine. I'd personally stay with the Q6600 IF you can get it for the same price as the E8200 - the E8400 and E8500 are the ones with impressive speed gains. But you'll probably see little to no difference in gaming between either of these four processors over the next couple of years.
 

jezz8me

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Mar 27, 2008
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I heard dual core handled gaming better and quad was not used to its full potential, i do photoshop though so mabe a quad would help with that
 

werepossum

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jezz8me said:
I heard dual core handled gaming better and quad was not used to its full potential, i do photoshop though so mabe a quad would help with that
Few PC game engines are truly parallel today. Crysis's CryEngine 2 claims to be, but their quad core scores are only very marginally better than dual cores of the same frequency. The problem is that you can buy a much faster (in clock cycles) dual core for the same money, compared to a quad core. If PC gaming engines remain largely single-threaded over the life of your CPU, then dual core is clearly the best choice. If gaming engines become more parallel (like consoles - PS3 and XBox 360 code tends to be quite parallel), then quad core will begin to be more of an issue. I chose the quad core Q6600 hoping for the latter, but honestly, I was trying to get my hands on an E8400 or E8500 until the last week before ordering. It's a guess either way, and either way, E8500/E8400/E6850/E6750 or Q9450/Q6600, your CPU is not likely to be the limiting factor in your games for a couple of years. And even if game engines do become more parallel, the faster clock speeds of a dual core may run the engine faster than a quad core of equivalent cost but slower clocks. No one can tell at this point.