California Gay Marriage Ban Lifted

chewy21

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Oct 29, 2008
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MrFluffy-X said:
I believe gay marriage is wrong, that is just my opinion, Its just sounds like an oxymoron to me
This is, quite possibly, the most open-minded and reasonable post I've read so far (granted, I've only read the first page). Of course, if it sounds funny, one must conclude it IS funny... funny being wrong in this case.

/sarcasm

Seriously man, gay marriage is not an oxymoron at all, because being gay is not contradictory to the legal act of marriage. It might fly in the face of your religious definition, but that's a problem you take up with the churches who do the marrying, not the government. Church laws are no business of the government, and government laws are no business of the church.

Without the religious context (which we just established has no place in the discussion), the argument against legalizing gay marriage fails miserably.
 

Blatherscythe

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mrsultana said:
Blatherscythe said:
Also, why do I get the feeling that the WBC is going to do something stupid/racist/vile/bigoted/disgusting/shameful/heartless/homophobic because of this? Because this type of news is going to make Fred Phelps have a stroke (hey one can hope).
I kind of, just a little, like to think that maybe, deep down inside, this Bush-era judge doesn't really care about equality; he was just trying to bump off Fred Phelps.
Does that make him better or worse? I mean Fred Phelps has to be the biggest jackass/conman living in the U.S.
 

Gaderael

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Matt_LRR said:
Konrad Curze said:
Matt_LRR said:
Konrad Curze said:
Ahh its a dark day for democracy.
Even worse since this already happened and Prop 8 had to come along to fix it.
yeah, that whole defence of the constitution thing, real bad news for democracy.

-m
I am assuming you mean this as sarcasm but the simple fact is that the constitution is bad news for democracy. The people voted against gay marriage. Lets not forget that the constitution also makes it legal for news stations to tell straight out lies.
No, a ruling that the FCC did not have sufficient regulatory authority to prevent news stations from telling outright lies makes it legal for news stations to tell straight out lies. (a claim which itself is only half true).

----------------

point 1: The US is a republic, not a democracy. A republic being a representative deomcracy - the basis of which is that representatives act in the interest of their constituents, not necessarily according to their wishes.

point 2: go read up on tyranny of the majority. Just because an idea is popular doesn't make it just or right.

point 3: the constitution is held as the basic operating rules for all of american democratic process. Without it (and defense of it against misguided and prohibited populist action) your democracy is meaningless - it is but a dictatorship of the many.

-m
Every time I read a post of yours, I love you a little more. Stay awesome, guy.
 

Queen Michael

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Jun 9, 2009
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I think I speak for all of us when I say whoooohooooooo! I'm so gonna celebrate by buying some yaoi.
 

The Stonker

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Matt_LRR said:
Konrad Curze said:
Ahh its a dark day for democracy.
Even worse since this already happened and Prop 8 had to come along to fix it.
yeah, that whole defence of the constitution thing, real bad news for democracy.

-m
Ah true wit! You my sir get a cookie.
But this is great news! Now to work on Texas!
 

brainslurper

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Aug 18, 2009
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honestly, no matter how unconstitutional it is, even if the law supports the murder of babies that was the responsiblility to stop it before it was passed. you cant just say "no that doesent count" even though it was already voted on, wait for the next chance to have it voted in. and i support gay marriage, i just also support democracy
 

Benarikun

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Pariahwulfen said:
Nope you just lost the game, and not everyone on here is a leftist.
Damn you good sir! Though very nicely planted.

Concerning the rest of this thread, I've not finished reading yet. I'm glad this happened as it gives homosexuals a chance to live the formalised married life many of them have been living without a contract confirming this. Before anyone jumps on me for being cold, my aunts (and only one of them is a blood relative of mine before you all start :p) recently got a civil union back here in the UK. A very nice do and they went back to the same old life they had been living, only now with a band of gold each.

IMO, marriage as a whole is over rated, and I don't see why wanting to live your life with someone requires, what I see as a formality. Just throwing that out there
 

Eldamar

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Dec 24, 2008
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Matt_LRR said:
Konrad Curze said:
Ahh its a dark day for democracy.
Even worse since this already happened and Prop 8 had to come along to fix it.
yeah, that whole defence of the constitution thing, real bad news for democracy.

-m
Well said indeed. Why is it that Canadians end up being more in line with our constitution than we do? It makes me sad that I had to move from Vancouver to the States.

As a side note, i am a big fan of you and LRR in general. I always look forward to your guys' videos.
 

Knight Templar

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brainslurper said:
honestly, no matter how unconstitutional it is, even if the law supports the murder of babies that was the responsiblility to stop it before it was passed. you cant just say "no that doesent count" even though it was already voted on, wait for the next chance to have it voted in. and i support gay marriage, i just also support democracy
It seems you support tyranny by majority, which isn't a real democracy.
 

drdamo

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May 17, 2010
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Finally, humanity is one step closer to normality.
The Greek already did it and we still use alot of their wisdom up till this day.
Saying same-sex couples are an abomination is like denying our own history, or even worse, our own existence.
And it sure as hell is hypocritical to use only selective parts of our history because the whole truth conflicts with your beliefs.

So my personal opinion remains:

I see more logic in loving a person for who he is, despite having the same genitalia, than blindly shoving the responsibility of all my actions to a higher power.

And when i look at history, all that the gods we ever created during humanity's lifetime did was give faith and hope to the individual, yet war and suffering to all.
 

HyenaThePirate

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aquailiz said:
This is exactly the view I have on the subject. Personal opinions aside, I believe gay people go out of their way to draw attention on themselves sometimes.

Personal opinions now... I'm also sickened by the many other people who title themselves as superior because their views agree with the current progressive thinking. Not only so, many other people even undermine and denigrate the idea of rejecting gay marriage. Surely, rulings such as these determine progress towards certain viewpoints, however, these viewpoints are not necessarily the most beneficial. Progress towards a direction does not always mean progress towards the correct direction. I believe many people here that post would receive a great deal of moderation if they even dared to call a "bigot" someone who openly supported gay marriage. Nevertheless, gay marriage supporters put down negative comments like these against the "public" that does not support their ideas. I don't believe in conservative and liberal ideologies, certainly, all differing ideas are just that, different.

I am a person who has studied and even given hour-long talks and informational sessions about the concept of homosexuality. I'll have to admit it is quite easy for the public to speculate and generate opinion about the matter by listening to what the media says and what "leading" opinion-makers discourse, gay people included. I would even say the general public does not a concrete, solid idea on what the matter really deals with. I have read probably too many scientific articles and research papers on the matter. I have spoken and conversed with gay people, I have dealt with them and even recently had a gay roommate. I read and studied the works of psychologists, sociologists, and doctors who specialized in defining what homosexuality really is, and I'll have to admit it is easy to spot others who do not have a broad depth of knowledge on the subject.

What I intended with the previous paragraph was to show that I am not just blabbering off with my opinion. I try to keep my thoughts as unbiased as possible on this matter, mostly because some people can be sensitive towards it, and because in order to fully understand a debatable subject, you have to know both sides of the story.

Homosexuality, in my opinion, is not normal. It is natural, if by natural you mean that nature "allows it" and that it occurs in nature. In addition, it is not close to being the majority. From what I have studied, it is a deeply intricate problem of the human psyche; which has been recently worsened by society. Do note that even though a problem does not interfere with a person's ability to perform well in society, this does not mean the problem itself is not there. Of course the APA declared it was not a mental disorder, but the circumstances and history surrounding that council are sketchy at best. In recent times, numerous sociological processes began to exacerbate the condition. It became a statement to be gay. Gay people were persecuted, incriminated, and martyred. However, during the modern era of telecommunications and globalization, these processes were not controlled in the least, but rather exaggerated. It is through society that being gay has become a problem, and because of the kind of society that we live in, it has become a problem to even try to revert it. Now gay people who try to become straight are persecuted! Gay people now hear that they must embrace their condition and accept it; they must flaunt it, even if it is discreetly. If they have homosexual urges, they must be true to themselves and choose to follow them. Of course there is a lot more to this, but that is the main idea.

Basically, to me, someone who considers himself a homosexual is no different as a person as someone who has ADD.

I also find it pointless to declare that gay people are more successful, productive, competitive, safe, open, intelligent, and more beneficial to society. Why? Because nothing less is expected. Just because they are gay they should not receive any spotlight or special attention. They should be as good members of society as everyone else is. They are not crippled in any way, they are not physically ill in any way, they are not handicapped in any way (from being homosexuals), and thus, they should perform as well or better than any other member of society. Many people approach the issue and set up "Gay vs. Straight" comparisons, but I'm sure if they had looked far enough, they would have found even more straight people that perform just as well or better than gay people.

In conclusion, I would have to remind (and thank) any kind reader who actually finished reading my post, that this is my opinion. I think it is an educated opinion due to the amount of background that I have personally studied and dealt with. I would also like to say that this is an issue that deals with more areas than the ones presently discussed. I would also encourage people to educate themselves and study this subject further and deeper before formulating opinions of their own, and to search the truth within this topic rather than listen to the media and society and generate opinions from it.
Very well said. I won't snip it out of respect, so that others have twice the opportunity to read it and contemplate what you say with an open mind. All view points should be respected and heard if we ever hope to find a resolution in the minds of people on this issue that will come to some sort of peaceful coexistence.
 

MrHero17

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Jul 11, 2008
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I've read through this whole thread and it kind of annoys me that no one has pointed out that gay people can procreate and reproduce and have their own kids. Hell, I think there's a new movie coming out soon in the states about a lesbian couple with two kids(spacing on the name but it looks like a decent comedy/family film).

I fully support equal rights for gay people and as such I'm happy to see prop 8 struck down.
 

Valksy

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Nov 5, 2009
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aquailiz said:
I am a person who has studied and even given hour-long talks and informational sessions about the concept of homosexuality.

In conclusion, I would have to remind (and thank) any kind reader who actually finished reading my post, that this is my opinion. I think it is an educated opinion due to the amount of background that I have personally studied and dealt with..

Oh, please do tell. What professional background do you have to make these statements? I would love to know what you think that you have "studied" to make you feel at all qualified.

I will point out that, having read the whole judgment, I saw (on about 20 occasions) the judge dismissing "evidence" cited by an avowed expert with no qualifications, no peer review, no particular background on the subject as being without credibility and not worthy of any weight (David Blankenhorn). Indeed much of the case to uphold Prop 8 was dismissed as drivel with no actual basis or foundation in any kind of social sciences.

I'm afraid that I must doubt that you have any degree of credibility to make the kind of statements that you did in your post.



For those that wish to review the ruling, here it is in pdf glory: http://www.sfgate.com/chronicle/acrobat/2010/08/04/Prop-8-Ruling-FINAL.pdf?tsp=1
 

AndyFromMonday

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Feb 5, 2009
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One of Many said:
AndyFromMonday said:
A victory for human rights! Hurrah!
But what of the human rights of the majority that voted to live in a state without gay marriage?
But what of the human rights of the people whose rights are taken away? Does the majority have the right to take rights away from the minority? I think not. If it doesn't affect you then you have no right to have a saying on the matter.