California no longer under lockdown - people freak out

CriticalGaming

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So the Monday after a brand new president takes office, the Governor of California Gavin Newson finally decides to remove California's Stay-At-Home order. California as you all might be aware, has been the worst state for C-19 in America overtaking New York with ease.

Los Angeles is still supposedly the worst city in the U.S for the virus.

But we are opening up, outside dining, the removal of the stay at home. A bunch of stuff is now okay again. And people have lost their minds, saying the Newson doesn't care about people dying or the hospital workers who will continue to have to deal with even worse Covid cases. And Newson's announcement was strangely barren of details. During the whole lockdown, Newson was always eager to share how many cases there were, how many deaths, how little space is left in the state's ICU's, numbers and numbers.

Yet interestingly enough, when he lifted the mandate there was a strange absence of numbers. Just him saying that "we're tracking in the right direction." Yeah ok Newsom, whatever. So if things are improving but you dont wanna brag about the good numbers?

Then of course the twitter army railed about this reverse course as they swear that this would only lead to more death. But forgetting the fact that we've not had indoor or outdoor dining for months, been stuck in a stay at home order for months....and yet Covid here is one of the worst places on the planet. How is that possible? If the lockdowns work, if outdoor dining was the problem, why are the states that aren't locked down, and still allow not only outdoor but also indoor dining not in a worse position that California? If the lockdowns work, how come things kept getting "worse" for months? Strange.....because it sounds like lockdowns don't do shit, and if they don't work then why be locked down.

Anyway I mostly just wanted to vent because i hate my fucking state and the moron that runs it.
 

Revnak

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Well fuck Newsom, I think that’s agreeable. Also fuck California. You’re gonna propagate a bunch of the UK variant up here and kill my dad. Fuck you.
 

Trunkage

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Yeah, I think Newson said that case have been going down dramatically... which is a good sign. Twitter seems to point out that deaths aren’t going down yet... there is lag like Newson thinks but there are still lots of hospitalization. People want a safe place to work. Maybe focus on that before lifting removing lockdowns. (I don’t know where Cali is on providing safe work spaces. Can’t imagine it would be classed as good considering their number of cases.)
 

CriticalGaming

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Yeah, I think Newson said that case have been going down dramatically... which is a good sign. Twitter seems to point out that deaths aren’t going down yet... there is lag like Newson thinks but there are still lots of hospitalization. People want a safe place to work. Maybe focus on that before lifting removing lockdowns. (I don’t know where Cali is on providing safe work spaces. Can’t imagine it would be classed as good considering their number of cases.)

I don't know what the answer is, but it was clear that the lockdowns were not working. And the ban on outdoor dinning was especially hard on local restuarants in my area. Especially since Newson let Hollywood film and cater with outdoor dining areas for film crew. Sometimes directly in the parking lots of restaurants the were ordered closed in the first place.

I think we can look at all the other states and even countries that have continued with outdoor dining and realize that the dining was never the problem or cause of case surges. It was just Newson being fucking stupid.
 
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Trunkage

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I don't know what the answer is, but it was clear that the lockdowns were not working. And the ban on outdoor dinning was especially hard on local restuarants in my area. Especially since Newson let Hollywood film and cater with outdoor dining areas for film crew. Sometimes directly in the parking lots of restaurants the were ordered closed in the first place.

I think we can look at all the other states and even countries that have continued with outdoor dining and realize that the dining was never the problem or cause of case surges. It was just Newson being fucking stupid.
Maybe on the dining. I come from a country where lockdowns eradicated the virus so dining is no longer a problem. We even had indoor dining for months. I’m aware I’m biased but also cognizant of the fact that lockdowns aren’t working at all in the US. Outdoor dining makes more sense than a lot of things but also aware that it’s all fucked and a lot of people are going to die
 

tippy2k2

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I'm no medical science person but my understanding is basically at this point, we're far too deep into the game to realistically take down Covid. We had our chance to deal with it when it was a tiny brush fire but now everything is on fire and everybody is throwing cups of water to try to put it out.

At this point, all we can do is try to keep the damage down until enough people get the vaccine and/or enough people get it to grant herd immunity. At a large-scale level, I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about it. All I can do is make my own personal choices to limit myself the best I can until I am able to get vaccinated.
 

Dirty Hipsters

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At this point, all we can do is try to keep the damage down until enough people get the vaccine and/or enough people get it to grant herd immunity. At a large-scale level, I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about it. All I can do is make my own personal choices to limit myself the best I can until I am able to get vaccinated.
Which was always the plan. The point of flatten the curve was to make sure people got it gradually and eventually we would have herd immunity without overwhelming hospitals. It was always pretty much a given that most people were going to get it at some point.

I don't understand how we went from "everyone will get it eventually, just don't get it all at once" to "oh my god this is the scariest thing ever everyone stay inside forever so that you don't get it."
 
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tippy2k2

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Which was always the plan. The point of flatten the curve was to make sure people got it gradually and eventually we would have herd immunity without overwhelming hospitals. It was always pretty much a given that most people were going to get it at some point.

I don't understand how we went from "everyone will get it eventually, just don't get it all at once" to "oh my god this is the scariest thing ever everyone stay inside forever so that you don't get it."
Because that didn't have to be the plan. That SHOULD have been Plan B with Plan A being an actual lockdown and shit but MUH FREEDUM so that was probably never going to happen. Didn't help that the government has essentially left everyone to fend for themselves, forcing people to just take their chances and left us with this raging dumpster fire with 400,000+ dead.

But hey, Muh Freedum.
 
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CriticalGaming

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Because that didn't have to be the plan. That SHOULD have been Plan B with Plan A being an actual lockdown and shit but MUH FREEDUM so that was probably never going to happen. Didn't help that the government has essentially left everyone to fend for themselves, forcing people to just take their chances and left us with this raging dumpster fire with 400,000+ dead.

But hey, Muh Freedum.
I dunno if it was "muh freedom" as much as it was people not wanting to be fucked out of work for a bunch of rules that didn't make any sense and had no backing. Further fucked up by the fact that when it was obvious that these measures were not working, the government doubled down on what wasn't working rather than trying something else.

And I think it made people angry when they were lamblasted for trying to complain about their, businesses, bills, putting food on the table. Because the mob would only cry out "Fuck your job people are dying." Yet ignoring all the problems that the shutdowns continue to cause.
 
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tippy2k2

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I dunno if it was "muh freedom" as much as it was people not wanting to be fucked out of work for a bunch of rules that didn't make any sense and had no backing. Further fucked up by the fact that when it was obvious that these measures were not working, the government doubled down on what wasn't working rather than trying something else.

And I think it made people angry when they were lamblasted for trying to complain about their, businesses, bills, putting food on the table. Because the mob would only cry out "Fuck your job people are dying." Yet ignoring all the problems that the shutdowns continue to cause.
I addressed that (though maybe I wasn't clear enough with it).

What Plan A should have been was an actual lockdown and a government that takes care of it's citizens. Basically a few weeks of "everyone stays at home, here is your paycheck from the government" (unless you can work from home completely, then here is a "thank you for helping us stipend that might not be your full pay but a little extra money to keep your morale up). Your groceries get delivered by government officials (I imagine for us, that would be something like The National Guard) or something of that nature.

Instead, it was a half-assed lockdown which did nothing but kill a bunch of businesses for nothing because half the people in the country weren't willing to actually do the very minimum of things like washing their hands and wearing a mask so we had a lockdown that didn't do much to stop the spread anyway.

But again, that's probably not realistic at all. Imagine having a government that gave a rat's ass about us...
 
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Dirty Hipsters

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What Plan A should have been was an actual lockdown and a government that takes care of it's citizens. Basically a few weeks of "everyone stays at home, here is your paycheck from the government" (unless you can work from home completely, then here is a "thank you for helping us stipend that might not be your full pay but a little extra money to keep your morale up). Your groceries get delivered by government officials (I imagine for us, that would be something like The National Guard) or something of that nature.
Yeah, that should have been the plan. The problem with that is that involves the government actually doing things, and doing things is hard. It's much easier to tell people to stay inside, make no effort to make sure people can actually stay inside, then tell people to go fuck themselves when the can't stay inside because they have no savings and need to be able to afford food and rent.
 

Phoenixmgs

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But we are opening up, outside dining, the removal of the stay at home. A bunch of stuff is now okay again. And people have lost their minds, saying the Newson doesn't care about people dying or the hospital workers who will continue to have to deal with even worse Covid cases. And Newson's announcement was strangely barren of details. During the whole lockdown, Newson was always eager to share how many cases there were, how many deaths, how little space is left in the state's ICU's, numbers and numbers.

Then of course the twitter army railed about this reverse course as they swear that this would only lead to more death. But forgetting the fact that we've not had indoor or outdoor dining for months, been stuck in a stay at home order for months....and yet Covid here is one of the worst places on the planet. How is that possible? If the lockdowns work, if outdoor dining was the problem, why are the states that aren't locked down, and still allow not only outdoor but also indoor dining not in a worse position that California? If the lockdowns work, how come things kept getting "worse" for months? Strange.....because it sounds like lockdowns don't do shit, and if they don't work then why be locked down.
It's probably come to the point (really past the point) that you can continue stay-at-home orders without them being too costly. David Davis of British Parliament compared lockdowns to a very expensive drug with known harms and it's a really apt comparison. Lockdowns, at best, just put on pause what is the inevitable. You just can't lockdown until it's "safe" again without almost certainly causing more harm than what you'd save especially with the type of lockdowns we've done in America which wasn't to smother and eliminate the virus. It's either too much harm is being done by the lockdowns or people just stopped giving a fuck and lockdowns stop working or both. I really hate all the guidelines that have 0 basis in science and completely go against science. The outdoor dining ban was asinine, the RESPIRATORY virus doesn't transmit outside with wind DISPERSING it and the SUN killing it.

If you want a bit of insight of how covid was/is probably spreading in Cali, google "covid california migrant farmers". At least in September in Cali, 6 of the 7 most covid-ridden counties, per capita, are in Central Valley, which produces the lion's share of America's fruits and vegetables.

Here's a really funny Joe Rogan clip of all the stupid guidelines that don't make any sense liking golfing is OK but not OK if using a CART!!!


I'm no medical science person but my understanding is basically at this point, we're far too deep into the game to realistically take down Covid. We had our chance to deal with it when it was a tiny brush fire but now everything is on fire and everybody is throwing cups of water to try to put it out.

At this point, all we can do is try to keep the damage down until enough people get the vaccine and/or enough people get it to grant herd immunity. At a large-scale level, I don't think there's a whole lot that can be done about it. All I can do is make my own personal choices to limit myself the best I can until I am able to get vaccinated.
The problem is we started dealing with it when it was a raging California forest fire. 20% of NYC was infected in APRIL. We had to start at least in February, not the middle of March. I don't know if a Plan A, as you coined it, would've worked when we started doing things. Unless you shutdown literally everything, essential workforce as well, because no matter how long you shutdown for and how low the numbers looked, the virus was slowly spreading through the essential workforce and then when you open up again, it's obviously going to jump to and spread among the rest of the population and numbers will go back up.

Which was always the plan. The point of flatten the curve was to make sure people got it gradually and eventually we would have herd immunity without overwhelming hospitals. It was always pretty much a given that most people were going to get it at some point.

I don't understand how we went from "everyone will get it eventually, just don't get it all at once" to "oh my god this is the scariest thing ever everyone stay inside forever so that you don't get it."
Some people never understood the objective. I had a couple friends on Facebook yelling at others to stay home no matter what at the very start of this. Nobody said you can't see friends and family. The whole "flatten the curve" motto literally was everyone will basically get it eventually, just don't get it all at once. A former friend was saying that my friends and I board gaming during the weekend was going to lead to his wife, who's a nurse, dying because of indirect spreading eventually getting to someone she gets in contact with and her getting infected. He would always say he's a "biologist" and his wife is a medical professional so everyone should listen to him when he doesn't even understand some basic shit. For example, he said he didn't want his wife to do the covid tests outside (drive-thru tests) but being outside is far safer than being inside the hospital working. It was pretty funny how his wife had dizziness and I was like "it's probably vertigo" being half serious and it ended up being vertigo yet 2 "medical professionals" couldn't figure it out. The whole thing made me realize how much of an asshole he is though because of several other things and he got kicked out of a public board gaming group as well because he pisses off everyone.
 
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Dreiko

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With all those hundreds of thousands of homeless people roaming around I don't think you can call that a lockdown. Even states that never locked down like Florida probably had fewer concurrent people out and about.
 

Revnak

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With all those hundreds of thousands of homeless people roaming around I don't think you can call that a lockdown. Even states that never locked down like Florida probably had fewer concurrent people out and about.
I believe New Zealand has been at zero cases multiple times and has double the homelessness rate of California.
 

Dreiko

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I believe New Zealand has been at zero cases multiple times and has double the homelessness rate of California.
That's prolly to do with them having way fewer people (under 5 million) so even at double the rate it's still not as many actual people as the near 40 milion people of california. They'd need to have 8 times the homeless rate of california for that to even be comparable, not two.

Viruses spread more the more people you have, so while you can have twice the rate of homeless people, another place can have more actual homeless people with a lower rate due to higher population numbers, which is what we need to look at if we're concerned with viruses.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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I think it's funny that people think the United States ever locked down.

And by "I think it's funny", I mean, "I get exceptionally depressed".

Because we didn't. We half-assed some bullshit in a handful of places and didn't even stick to *that*. There is no lockdown when damn near every single retail and fast food worker is going to work like normal.

Our "most locked down" areas were a fucking joke quarantine. We couldn't spread this shit better if we tried.

And yeah, I'm pissy that everybody saw Montana's relatively low numbers because we started half-assing it sooner than most places then the unwashed fucking masses decided to come visit. Typically the assholes who thought "lockdowns don't work" and had money. So now are numbers were flaring *and* housing costs are going through the fucking roof.
 
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Kwak

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I dunno if it was "muh freedom" as much as it was people not wanting to be fucked out of work for a bunch of rules that didn't make any sense and had no backing. Further fucked up by the fact that when it was obvious that these measures were not working, the government doubled down on what wasn't working rather than trying something else.

And I think it made people angry when they were lamblasted for trying to complain about their, businesses, bills, putting food on the table. Because the mob would only cry out "Fuck your job people are dying." Yet ignoring all the problems that the shutdowns continue to cause.
Your definition of 'the mob' is way off considering who was storming government buildings openly brandishing weapons.
 

CriticalGaming

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Your definition of 'the mob' is way off considering who was storming government buildings openly brandishing weapons.
Storming government buildings is not okay, but burning down neighborhoods in the name of BLM is?

How come they never blamed covid surges on the protests, many of which done without masks? It is because the media was okay with the "cause" in which brought those up? Covid doesnt get you if you are noble-rioting.
 
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Schadrach

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Our "most locked down" areas were a fucking joke quarantine. We couldn't spread this shit better if we tried.
Makes me glad I'm in a rural state. To be fair, it's the most urban part of WV, but that's not saying much - our largest city has 50k population. I work in a place that is naturally already mostly socially distanced (production workers were already working 10-20' apart, building was built with office staff having separate offices meaning there's solid walls between all office staff instead of partitions, etc), we even argued that we count as "essential" because we make stuff that is used in the production of medical and industrial supplies (and occasionally food, too - we've done work for a chocolate company in CA a couple of times).

How come they never blamed covid surges on the protests, many of which done without masks?
To be fair, a lot of them were wearing masks, at least the ones doing the burning and looting. It's a lot easier to get away with it if you're harder to identify (and this is why a lot of protesters don't want to be filmed). That's why the guy who burned down a pawn shop with someone in it on the second day of Minneapolis protests got caught - he was clearly identifiable in the video of him posted on social media.