Call of Duty: Black Ops Censored in Germany

[Therumancer]

Yes.

After World War II to prevent Germany from rising as a power again due to it's policies and behavior this thing called "The Berlin Wall" was assembled to split the country in half and prevent it from ever acheiving power again. I personally think this was a good idea, and taking that wall down was one of the few things I think Ronald Reagan did that was wrong.

Germany has only returned to power because we made that desician. They exist in their current form because we allowed it. Like it or not, it's true.
(...)
On top of that, what do you expect me to do? Pretend that the Berlin wall never existed? Claim we didn't build it for a reason?

Let me just quote this:

(Reuters) - More than half of all Russians do not know who built the Berlin Wall, one of the most enduring symbols of the Cold War, an opinion poll showed Thursday.

Ten percent of people surveyed by pollster VTsIOM thought Berlin residents built it themselves -- even though its purpose was to prevent residents of communist East Germany from escaping to the West through the divided city of Berlin.

Six percent said Western powers built it and four percent though it was a "bilateral initiative" of the Soviet Union and the West.

Fifty-eight percent said they did not know who built it, with just 24 percent correctly naming the Soviet Union and its then-communist ally East Germany.

Following mounting pressure from within the communist bloc, the wall was opened to allow people to cross from east to west on November 9, 1989, leading to the reunification of Germany 11 months later.

I don't know the statistics on this in the US, but I'm pretty sure you would be among the percentage that do not know who built (and later tore down) the Berlin Wall.

Also, the wall caused the deaths of more than a thousand people. I don't know why you would insist on having that blood on your hands.

Alright, this will be my last message on the subject, since this is going nowhere. People do not seem to be reading my posts, or realy care. I have people deciding to omit little bits here and there because "well I don't consider that concrete" despite the abillity to do a couple of simple web searches, even when I give key words.

On the matter of "The Berlin Wall" I will say this, and I really do recommend people read up on it:

In 1989 I was 13 years old, this means I was a teenager when this was going on. While I won't claim to clearly remember everything to do with it there, I do remember it however. 1989 was incidently the last year of Ronald Reagan's presidency, which some people seem to not even know here.

It can be said that the Berlin Wall was not constructed by any one group, though the US and it's allies were crucial to the entire idea, as the purpose of the wall, irregardless of any rhetoric to the contrary, was to cripple Germany and prevent it's return to power. People have claimee various other reasons for it's existance, and it did indeed serve many differant purposes, but that is why it was there, and why it took the involvement and support of the US to bring it down.

As far as whether it was a pleasant thing for the people of Germany, it was not. It was however not intended to be one. Given the war, and the reasons for the wall, it was something that I did not support the removal of. A lot was said about this matter in school, and in the news when it actually happened.

Feel free to say anything you want in response to this, including screaming about my alleged ignorance, or whatever. The same goes from other aspects of this discussion, which like many are going nowhere, and I'm already seeing flames being made so it's probably better not to continue this. Internet debates can't be "won" in any lasting fashion, and we're getting well off the subject of censorship and more into discussion of Germany. If it makes people feel better, then go right on thinking that the US had nothing to do with The Berlin Wall or it going down at all.


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EDIT:

After a couple of discussions off forum someone convinced me that I should give an entire run down here since I am articulating myself worse than usual, and making assumptions about the audience and it's knowlege that I shouldn't be making, and thus saying things in a way that depends on people knowing exactly what I mean which defeats the purpose of explaining things:

During World War II, the US and Russia were allies (which is one of the reasons I use the term ally broadly). There was however a lot of tension between Russia and the US and the other allies over things like oh... communism.

A big part of World War II was the development of technology a lot of which was generated by German scientists, leading to a lot of people saying (with some truth) that the entire war basically came down to our german scientists, against their german scientists, and that this continued through the cold war.

When the war came to a close both the US and it's allies and Russia wanted to annex germany because of all of the factories, and technology that were left standing, even though nobody came right out and said so. This lead to an uneasy period where both sides started dividing up the "spoils" of the war. Leading to things like the US going through factories to obtain information on German rocket science, preventing the Russians from doing the same thing, and then going "well hey, there is a whole pile of V2s over there you can have".

A lot of the vintage espionage stuff you read about, with the US secreting Nazi scientists away despite their crimes, and everything else, is based on truth as the US and Russia were both basically working to get as much German goodness on their side, irregardless of the crimes of the people involved.

The Berlin Wall was in practical terms a diplomatic resolution between the US and Russia. Since neither side was going to allow the other to just take Germany, the basic idea was that it would remain "independant" but that it would be divided up with half going to the east and half going to the west. While Russia arguably did most of the actual construction, this was done with the approval and support of the US and it's allies. Nobody on either side really wanted an independant Germany or it to regain power, but neither side wanted the other to actually have it either. The division could be seen on a lot of respects as "our" germans, and "their" germans.

At the end of the Reagan presidency (and I kind of snickered when some people mentioned it was under Bush), Reagan made an effort to take the wall down. This was being done for humanitarian reasons that I pretty much disagree with given the world wars. Pretty much the reasons other people have claimed as to why it was inhumane. One of the biggest quotes coming from Mr. Reagan, and perhaps one of the quintessential quotes from an American president in general is from this event with Reagan basically telly Gorby "It's time to tear this wall down". The fact that it had two cold war enemies agreeing to do something like this, on a matter that arguably started The Cold War to begin with, was a big part of why it was so important. I, and some other critics, however believe that the point about preventing Germany from rising to power again was forgotten. I know a lot of people do not think like I do, but I kind of feel the two World Wars and the scary rate at which Germany can recover (not to mention all of their innovations leading to those technological battles) fully justified the special consideration (and feel free to disagree, but I'm not going to argue the point).

I perhaps wrote some things badly, or where they would seem to contridict this, and it is WELL off topic, but since we spent so much time argueing about The Berlin wall, that is the FULL story as I understand it.

In short, I consider the Berlin Wall to have been constructed by the allies (which included Russia) for the dual purpose of containing Germany, and peacefully resolving conflicts that could have resulted in another World War right there on the spot over German technology with the Russians and the US going at it. Rather we remained allies for the time, parted ways, and instead of a hot war, we wound up with a cold one, and a heck of a lot less blood was spilled.

I'm done in this thread, and thank you to those who read this, since I took the time to write it, whether you agree with it or not. I think we're getting so far off subject though and things are heated enough where it's not worth discussing any further, so I am unlikely to put up any further responses.

 

[Piflik]

You got it all wrong. Germany is not censoring anything. There is no censorship in Germany. (Apart from Swastikas and the like outside of educational purposes...any game that features it can't be legally bought...I personally think that's the one of the stupidest types of censorship...second only to anything vaguely sex-related in USA)

Violence in Games is not censored by Germany. Games are examined by the USK and get a rating (just like anywhere else). If the USK refuses to give a rating, the game can still be legally bought in any store, but you have to be 18 years old and the game cannot be publicly displayed or marketed. Publishers either chose to not publish the game in Germany or censor their own game to get a (lower) rating, because they fear to not make enough profit.

Censorship in games is not politically motivated, but down to economics.

 

[MoeTheMonk]

Therumancer, congratulations. You have again proven that militant right wing Americans (your own words) are ignorant about the world. Like we needed further proof. Also, I got my probation, so I guess that your bitchy little threats worked. But you got it wrong: I don't insult you because I disagree with you - I insult you because you're an ignorant hateful redneck who, despite all evidence to the contrary, believes he's entitled to an opinion; a collateral damage of democracy, if you will.

By the way, I'm a bloody grad student who's studied actual history, not the Glenn Beck audio-book version as narrated by Sarah Palin, so trust me, apart from my initial reaction, all you elicit from me are pity and ridicule. If you were indeed a teen-ager when the Wall came down, what is your excuse for having the spelling and grammar of a particularly stupid teen-ager at age 30+? Except being a republican, that is.

Let me put it like this: if somebody cannot be bothered to check the spelling of "desician" (lulz), then his authority in matters beyond last night's Fox News broadcasts is, shall we say, highly suspect. But knowing jack shit about a subject has never stopped a republican from speaking ex recto before, has it?

Hmm, another rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth liberal who goes berserk at the mention of anything remotely "right-wing." Slinging around stereotypes and insults, and calling everyone who's a Republican ignorant and hateful. How about staying civil and thinking before you automatically stereotype millions of people as redneck retarded bigots?

 

[MoeTheMonk]

Hmm, another rabid, foaming-at-the-mouth liberal who goes berserk at the mention of anything remotely "right-wing." Slinging around stereotypes and insults, and calling everyone who's a Republican ignorant and hateful. How about staying civil and thinking before you automatically stereotype millions of people as redneck retarded bigots?

I'm a European Christian conservative, so your attempt to try and pigeon-hole me with your (factually wrong, btw, read Edmund Burke) categories of "liberal" is silly and failed from the word go.

No, I just hate stupidity and ignorance, and your fellow republican does fit both bills by spouting uninformed tripe in lieu of opinions and writing like a slow child despite being over 30. I'm not saying that all republicans are hateful idiots, by the way. It just so happens that most hateful American idiots happen to be republicans.

Mate, how about you stay non-partisan and realise that you equating my attack on his idiocy with an attack on your political stance makes you look bad?

Oh, and millions of redneck retarded bigots gave us eight years of a redneck retarded bigot in the White House, so I guess that some stereotyping is in order.

That's all fine and well, but frankly I don't care what your particular political stance is. My objection is that, despite whatever ignorant or horribly-spelled ideas "my fellow republican" has said, there is no need to respond with such an over-the-top raving attack against America, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Fox News, and everything else remotely considered conservative. If you've got a problem, debate it politely with him instead of flying off the handle.

Oh and yes I am well aware liberal means something quite different in other parts of the world, but in America it is used to refer to the left-wing of the country. And I'm going to go out on an absolutely wild shot in the dark and guess that you align yourself more of the left-wing of America than the right.

 

[Nouw]

First Medal of Honor, now this. Brace yourselves people for playing Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood where the assassinations have all been replace with big friendly hugs.

I laughed.

...Why is it the EU countries shrunk at the sight of a FPS...tis a real shame

Does Germany count as the EU as a whole now?

If we lost WW2. We being the Allied forces.

No suprises there, Germany censoring a game!

 

[MoeTheMonk]

That's all fine and well, but frankly I don't care what your particular political stance is. My objection is that, despite whatever ignorant or horribly-spelled ideas "my fellow republican" has said, there is no need to respond with such an over-the-top raving attack against America, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Fox News, and everything else remotely considered conservative. If you've got a problem, debate it politely with him instead of flying off the handle.

So, wait. It's unfair for me to generalise the people who gave us Sarah Palin, Dubya, ans Glenn Beck, but you get to call me "another raving, foaming at the mouth liberal" without even knowing what and who I am, and then tell me that you actually don't care?

Are you not very bright, or just hypocritical?

Oh and yes I am well aware liberal means something quite different in other parts of the world, but in America it is used to refer to the left-wing of the country.

Wrongly. I can say that in Dumbistan, I call a table a chair, but it only makes me sound stupid. But again, not knowing a word's meaning has never stopped a republican before, has it? To wit, all those teabaggers yelling that Obama is Hitler, a communist, AND an islamist... They're republicans, too, aren't they?

And I'm going to go out on an absolutely wild shot in the dark and guess that you align yourself more of the left-wing of America than the right.

Because America's right wing is bat-shit insane and pretty daft, to boot. You know, the Phelps family, the Qur'an burning pastor, Jack Thompson, Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, THOSE are the kind of people who align themselves with the right wing in America these days, which means that most folks with a brain have run away in embarrassment already.

My my, aren't we insulting today? Well, then obviously one of your stellar intellect can admit there is at least a slim difference between stereotyping millions of people you've never met nor heard from... and making a quite accurate observation of someone you just saw go into a rage against all things conservative.
And obviously your knowledge of American politics comes from http://www.democrats.org/ seeing as how 40% of the Tea Party classifies themselves as independents and democrats.

And apparently some of those folks without brains have also fled to the left-wing as well, seeing as how it contains the likes of Rosie O'Donnel, Nancy Pelosi, Joe Biden, and Rev. Wright.

Oh and PLEASE forgive me for having the gall to use the word "liberal" to describe a left-winger. Even though every American, Canadian and most Europeans know that commonly used word in American politics.

On a related note, I have not, am not, and probably never will be a Republican. But if you're the shining example of the Left, I might have to put some more thought into it.

 

[punkrocker27]

Because America's right wing is bat-shit insane and pretty daft, to boot. You know, the Phelps family, the Qur'an burning pastor, Jack Thompson, Sarah Palin, Christine O'Donnell, THOSE are the kind of people who align themselves with the right wing in America these days, which means that most folks with a brain have run away in embarrassment already.

There you go again stereotyping everyone who is right wing because of a few extremists. I could just as easily name drop a few nutty prominent figures on the other side of the spectrum and call every liberal batshit insane. I do not classify myself into any particular political party nor stance, I just hate all the generalization.

 

[ninjajoeman]

they did this last year if i remember correctly, if you shot any civvies in MW2, it gave you a game over. or they blanked it completely. all im sure of is someone somewhere did something

Doesn't it do that normally?

think they left it so it wouldn't so you would think more deeply about whats right or wrong. like if you shot the civilians you can take out the terrorists who will most likely kill far more civilians.

Or they just made it a gameover so you knew being a terrorist is bad.

 

[The Random One]

Now I want to play Treyarch: Black Ops.