Damn those Evolution 2011 winners, and their soulless quest at betterment in a medium where improvement and success is objectively measured! They must hate themselves!TestECull said:
Can "e-sports" be considered true sports?
- Thread starter C2Ultima
- Start date
So political races, battles of the bands, iron chef tournaments, and eating competitions are all sports in your world? Must be a cool place.Axelhander said:
Edit: Oh, and the evolution thing? It was a response to you trying to discredit dictionaries in a highly anti-intellectual manner. I guess I shouldn't be surprised that you didn't understand it at all.
By the way, this isn't 4chan -- or gamefaqs, for that matter. With an attitude like yours, you'll be banned within the month, so enjoy it while it lasts.
BREAKING NEWS: Competitive gaming is not fun, because "TestECull" says so! Competitors who excel at finding optimal strategies, testing those strategies against like-minded players, seeing those strategies succeed or fail, and refining their game plan have no fun! Ever! "TestECull" 100% guarantees it!TestECull said:
In other news, taking gaming seriously ruins gaming! This is especially true in games designed with mechanics intended to reward those players who thoughtfully apply those mechanics to the game, including, but not limited to, the entire Mario series, the entire Megaman series, the entire Street Fighter series, the entire Halo series, the entire DOOM series, the entire Final Fantasy series, the entire BioWare game lineup, [abridged], 95% of Steam's library, and the every single game that even remotely counts as "well-made."
When this reporter watches tournies on Justin TV, he doesn't see laughter, cheering, merriment, heartbreak, victory, defeat, rivalries, comradeship, and all the other stuff associated with real sports! Ever! Even though all that stuff is totally there.
So is football, rugby and pretty much any other team based sport you care to name.Generic Gamer said:
OT: I don't think they can be classed as "sports" so to speak, but I do think they can be legitimised as a competitive and professional thing like playing Chess in tournaments.
Choose my response:Owyn_Merrilin said:
Yes, yes, yes, and yes. All have rules, strategy, organization, and require skillsets. Not all have a great breadth of depth (political races can be easily broken by appealing to people like, oh, let's say, YOU, Mr. "I Couldn't Win an Argument if My Life Depended on it"), but all are sport. All of them.
World is a cool place. Would be even cooler if teachers didn't so consistently fail their students.
-- OR --
Hi my name is Owyn Merrilin and when I argue on the internet I appeal to emotion instead of using actual reason. You may have seen arguments similar to mine in other facets of your life, including:
- When homophobes argue "who would want to have sex with another dude? That's gross!"
- When creationists argue "how could all life on Earth be a cosmic accident? That's stupid!"
- When alternative medicine apologists argue "we'll sue you if you keep pointing out that acupuncture/chiropractic/homeopathic/etc. actually don't do dick all."
Take a look at the edit to that post, and also look up the meaning of "appeal to emotion," because I have yet to do it in this thread.Axelhander said:
But they're not though, are they? Just because they have similar characteristics to sports doesn't make them so.Axelhander said:
I explained the evolution thread. Do read, please.Owyn_Merrilin said:
I don't post on 4Chan, because I don't regularly keep the company of imbeciles. I'm starting to wonder why I continue posting here, actually.
EDIT - Actually, damn, I just made a good point. Later.
Not as far as the dictionary is concerned. Honestly you can argue it all you want but it isn't. is it a competition? yes is it a sport? no.
Competition doesn't = sport and vice versa. A competition that involves a sport will often be clearly defined as a Sports competition. Anything can be a competition, you can compete in how fast you can tap you fingers or ho loud you can yell Boggies however that doesn't make them a sport.
competition
Pronunciation:/kɒmpɪˈtɪʃ(ə
n/
noun
[mass noun]
the activity or condition of striving to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others:
there is fierce competition between banks
the competition for university places is greater than ever this year
[count noun] an event or contest in which people take part in order to establish superiority or supremacy in a particular area:
a beauty competition
[in singular] the person or people over whom one is attempting to establish one's supremacy or superiority; the opposition:
I walked round to check out the competition
Ecologyinteraction between animal or plant species, or individual organisms, that are attempting to gain a share of a limited environmental resource.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/competition
sport
Pronunciation:/spɔːt/
noun
1 an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:
team sports such as soccer and rugby
2 informal a person who behaves in a good or specified way in response to teasing, defeat, or a similarly trying situation
3 Biologyan animal or plant showing abnormal or striking variation from the parent type, especially in form or colour, as a result of spontaneous mutation.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sport
definition
Pronunciation:/dɛfɪˈnɪʃ(ən/
noun
1 a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary.
an exact statement or description of the nature, scope, or meaning of something:
our definition of what constitutes poetry
[mass noun] the action or process of defining something.
2 [mass noun] the degree of distinctness in outline of an object, image, or sound.
the capacity of a device to make images distinct in outline:
[in combination] :
high- definition television
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/definition
opinion
Pronunciation:/əˈpɪnjən/
noun
1 a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:
that, in my opinion, is right
the area's residents share vociferous opinions about the future
[mass noun] the beliefs or views of a group or majority of people:
the changing climate of opinion
an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something:
I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved
2 a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter:
if in doubt, get a second opinion
Lawa barrister's advice on the merits of a case.
Lawa formal statement of reasons for a judgement given.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/opinion
Competition doesn't = sport and vice versa. A competition that involves a sport will often be clearly defined as a Sports competition. Anything can be a competition, you can compete in how fast you can tap you fingers or ho loud you can yell Boggies however that doesn't make them a sport.
competition
Pronunciation:/kɒmpɪˈtɪʃ(ə
n/noun
[mass noun]
the activity or condition of striving to gain or win something by defeating or establishing superiority over others:
there is fierce competition between banks
the competition for university places is greater than ever this year
[count noun] an event or contest in which people take part in order to establish superiority or supremacy in a particular area:
a beauty competition
[in singular] the person or people over whom one is attempting to establish one's supremacy or superiority; the opposition:
I walked round to check out the competition
Ecologyinteraction between animal or plant species, or individual organisms, that are attempting to gain a share of a limited environmental resource.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/competition
sport
Pronunciation:/spɔːt/
noun
1 an activity involving physical exertion and skill in which an individual or team competes against another or others for entertainment:
team sports such as soccer and rugby
2 informal a person who behaves in a good or specified way in response to teasing, defeat, or a similarly trying situation
3 Biologyan animal or plant showing abnormal or striking variation from the parent type, especially in form or colour, as a result of spontaneous mutation.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/sport
definition
Pronunciation:/dɛfɪˈnɪʃ(ə
n/noun
1 a statement of the exact meaning of a word, especially in a dictionary.
an exact statement or description of the nature, scope, or meaning of something:
our definition of what constitutes poetry
[mass noun] the action or process of defining something.
2 [mass noun] the degree of distinctness in outline of an object, image, or sound.
the capacity of a device to make images distinct in outline:
[in combination] :
high- definition television
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/definition
opinion
Pronunciation:/əˈpɪnjən/
noun
1 a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge:
that, in my opinion, is right
the area's residents share vociferous opinions about the future
[mass noun] the beliefs or views of a group or majority of people:
the changing climate of opinion
an estimation of the quality or worth of someone or something:
I had a higher opinion of myself than I deserved
2 a statement of advice by an expert on a professional matter:
if in doubt, get a second opinion
Lawa barrister's advice on the merits of a case.
Lawa formal statement of reasons for a judgement given.
http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/opinion
Coming off as a massive bellend and attacking someone for their views is a sure fire way to gather a group of people that hate you. This isn't gamefaqs. If you want to behave this way then please leave and rejoin your ilk.Axelhander said:
Here is my take on it, ESports are probably a protosport at this point in their development they have a lot of elements that we find in more traditional sports such as football and baseball but their lack of physical activity does prevent them from being casually accepted as a sport at this point in time.
This could change in the future as language does of course continue to evolve but Esports are going to face some serious difficulties becoming recognized as a sport in the future and ironically I think that the lack of physical activity in them might be among the smallest of their problems.
First of all is the problem of legacy. Sports fans like being able to connect current players with previous generations who played the game and assume that it is essentially an equal playing field between generations. That you can legitimately compare Michael Jordan to Lebron James despite several years separating the two players because they are playing the same game. Computer games are going to lack that deep legacy because even a game like Madden Football which comes out every year tweaks the game rules a bit is run a more powerful machine allowing for more detail in the game.
This is an advantage that not sport sports such as poker and chess enjoy over Esports currently because they have a game that goes back several generations to centuries. It allows fans of those games to compare and contrast modern play styles to play styles under the same rule set and environment.
Secondly is balance issues to be sorted out, computer games tend to be a lot more complex than other games in many ways (compare risk to Hearts of iron 3 for example) and while I enjoy the complexity it does create the opportunity for exploits and balance issues. Most of the time this doesnt matter much because the life span of most games is fairly small but if you are building a tournament around a game this becomes a much more important issue to be addressed.
Third ownership of the medium. The NFL essentially owns the game of professional football they have the power and ability to create rules changes evolve the game and dictate new elements to the game if they so desire. Esports are dependent on the work of others and whatever limitations the game has towards modification. This means that Esports leagues have to plan their sport around someone who may have only a peripheral contact at best with that league and who may be developing games whose design for whatever reason goes against the needs of that league.
This could change in the future as language does of course continue to evolve but Esports are going to face some serious difficulties becoming recognized as a sport in the future and ironically I think that the lack of physical activity in them might be among the smallest of their problems.
First of all is the problem of legacy. Sports fans like being able to connect current players with previous generations who played the game and assume that it is essentially an equal playing field between generations. That you can legitimately compare Michael Jordan to Lebron James despite several years separating the two players because they are playing the same game. Computer games are going to lack that deep legacy because even a game like Madden Football which comes out every year tweaks the game rules a bit is run a more powerful machine allowing for more detail in the game.
This is an advantage that not sport sports such as poker and chess enjoy over Esports currently because they have a game that goes back several generations to centuries. It allows fans of those games to compare and contrast modern play styles to play styles under the same rule set and environment.
Secondly is balance issues to be sorted out, computer games tend to be a lot more complex than other games in many ways (compare risk to Hearts of iron 3 for example) and while I enjoy the complexity it does create the opportunity for exploits and balance issues. Most of the time this doesnt matter much because the life span of most games is fairly small but if you are building a tournament around a game this becomes a much more important issue to be addressed.
Third ownership of the medium. The NFL essentially owns the game of professional football they have the power and ability to create rules changes evolve the game and dictate new elements to the game if they so desire. Esports are dependent on the work of others and whatever limitations the game has towards modification. This means that Esports leagues have to plan their sport around someone who may have only a peripheral contact at best with that league and who may be developing games whose design for whatever reason goes against the needs of that league.