Can I talk about this modern trend in "diversity casting in TV shows?"

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Drathnoxis

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It depends what you mean.

In the old stories, Sherlock is often just doing really basic deduction. They were written in a time when the concept of detective work was in its infancy, and so it's really just about this guy bothering to think about stuff in a scientific fashion, and he only looks exceptionally smart because everyone else is shitting themselves inside out over magic ghost dogs or whatever.
No, not really. I have read all of the novels, just not watched the shows. The thing is, Sherlock Holmes is never wrong or makes a mistake, except when he makes a mistake on purpose to make someone else make a mistake(except once in the entire series). You can't make the kind of ridiculous "really basic deductions" that Sherlock does on a regular basis and always be able to tell everything about a person and where they've been based entirely on the color of dirt on their shoes and the fact that they haven't cut their fingernails recently, or whatever, with 100% accuracy. There's one scene I remember where Sherlock and Mycroft are playing that game about people passing on the street, and the book doesn't even bother to confirm their suppositions, it's just taken as a given that they are correct in whatever they say. Science and deductions are only a means to get across the true point of the story, which is just how amazing Sherlock is, and if you didn't understand that, maybe you need to try re-reading some of the stories.
 
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Trunkage

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The issue here was that ST:TMP flogged enough tickets to justify more films, but they spent so much making it that there was very little profit. The demand for the second was therefore that it was done on a much lower budget.
Well, I dont see that as an issue, as it ended up being a better movie. Sometimes less money and tighter budgets is the correct way to go

This is my personal opinion, I dont care about how great effects are. They can add to an experience, but the story is more important
 

Terminal Blue

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No, not really. I have read all of the novels, just not watched the shows. The thing is, Sherlock Holmes is never wrong or makes a mistake, except when he makes a mistake on purpose to make someone else make a mistake(except once in the entire series). You can't make the kind of ridiculous "really basic deductions" that Sherlock does on a regular basis and always be able to tell everything about a person and where they've been based entirely on the color of dirt on their shoes and the fact that they haven't cut their fingernails recently, or whatever, with 100% accuracy.
I mean, I'm not going to fight super hard for a series I don't really have that much emotional investment in, but I'm going to point out that the soil thing, for example, is actually totally doable and entirely reasonable for someone who has the training to look for stuff like that. It is something police forensic experts would do now, for example.

And yeah, Sherlock is always right but that's a contrivance of the story. Anyone could be right, even the people who believe impossible things, because it's fiction. We're meant to believe that this guy is very observant and good at figuring stuff out, but we're not meant to believe he's some kind of magic superhuman who knows everything because he's attuned to every data point in the universe, like Sherlock.
 
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Trunkage

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I mean, I'm not going to fight super hard for a series I don't really have that much emotional investment in, but I'm going to point out that the soil thing, for example, is actually totally doable and entirely reasonable for someone who has the training to look for stuff like that. It is something police forensic experts would do now, for example.

And yeah, Sherlock is always right but that's a contrivance of the story. Anyone could be right, even the people who believe impossible things, because it's fictiojn. We're meant to believe that this guy is very observant and good at figuring stuff out, but we're not meant to believe he's some kind of magic superhuman who knows everything because he's attuned to every data point in the universe, like Sherlock.
Can I make a suggestion? Take it or leave it (and you might already have a similar opinion)

Don't fight really hard to movies and series that you DO have an emotional investment in. It will stop you from getting angry when the character changes because all you want is the old character. A new version will be automatically discounted. Tying your identity in movie and shows is not a real identity. Build your own. It will make you realise when movies and show will use shortcuts to make feel a certain way instead of putting the effort in
 

Agema

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And yeah, Sherlock is always right but that's a contrivance of the story. Anyone could be right, even the people who believe impossible things, because it's fictiojn. We're meant to believe that this guy is very observant and good at figuring stuff out, but we're not meant to believe he's some kind of magic superhuman
No indeed: according to Conan Doyle, the magic superhuman was Mycroft. Although, admittedly, his genius was not always well tailored to investigating crimes.
 

Gordon_4

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No indeed: according to Conan Doyle, the magic superhuman was Mycroft. Although, admittedly, his genius was not always well tailored to investigating crimes.
“Keeper of the broom cupboard of State”. I always rather liked that description of Mycroft.
 
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Agema

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“Keeper of the broom cupboard of State”. I always rather liked that description of Mycroft.
Inasmuch as I perhaps object to a lot of modern portrayals of Sherlock Holmes, it's that they seem to think that because he's the hero and his stand-out trait is intelligence, he therefore has to be the smartest man in the room. As a result Mycroft, who is supposed to be his superior (even if his intellect could lack practicality), gets a hefty downgrade.
 
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Hades

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Reva from the Obi Wan series got a lot of flack from ''the usual suspect''. Here's a nice video about why most of those complaints weren't valid. Its a nice rundown on the tactics used by ''the usual suspects'' to craft narratives about series in order to further their grift.
 
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Gordon_4

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Inasmuch as I perhaps object to a lot of modern portrayals of Sherlock Holmes, it's that they seem to think that because he's the hero and his stand-out trait is intelligence, he therefore has to be the smartest man in the room. As a result Mycroft, who is supposed to be his superior (even if his intellect could lack practicality), gets a hefty downgrade.
My limited exposure to the pair of them made me think they’re more or less intellectual equals but Sherlock - thanks perhaps to his cocaine habit - was the more erratic of the pair and thus why he found fame as a ground level private detective where Mycroft (apparently) managed to cultivate the right contacts and demonstrable skill at statecraft to ensconce himself in Government instead.
 

Terminal Blue

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Don't fight really hard to movies and series that you DO have an emotional investment in. It will stop you from getting angry when the character changes because all you want is the old character. A new version will be automatically discounted.
I get it, but that's not how it works for me really.

Generally, I'm pretty open to reboots or changes to media I emotionally connect with, even if it's tonally different or changes things about characters. I am generally much more adverse to media properties treading water, delivering the same note over and over or descending into alienating labyrinths of preexisting continuity and story than I am with widespread changes, because I get bored very easily.

But I also reject a hypothetical inverse point that all change is necessarily good because it upsets fandoms and fandoms are bad. Changing a property can be done in a deeply cynical and insulting way, it can be done in a way that strips out whatever made the original property enjoyable or important to its audience. It can remove messages and themes that might have been helpful to someone, and replace them with messages that might be socially harmful or offensive.

I don't dislike NuTrek because it's different from Star Trek. I dislike it because it is commercially cynical, politically unnuanced, tokenistic in its approach to representation, frequently mean-spirited and joyless, intellectually and philosophially bankrupt and, above all, because it's part of a media landscape where these things are increasingly the norm.
 

Agema

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My limited exposure to the pair of them made me think they’re more or less intellectual equals but Sherlock - thanks perhaps to his cocaine habit - was the more erratic of the pair and thus why he found fame as a ground level private detective where Mycroft (apparently) managed to cultivate the right contacts and demonstrable skill at statecraft to ensconce himself in Government instead.
Sherlock himself concedes that Mycroft is better: but that Mycroft is also impractical and sort of lazy.

I think the difference is more energy and curiosity. Sherlock wants to go out there, explore and scrutinise the world actively, and would be bored rigid in a office. Mycroft is the opposite and just wants to the world to come to him, passively receiving a load of information, living a cosy routine.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Sherlock himself concedes that Mycroft is better: but that Mycroft is also impractical and sort of lazy.

I think the difference is more energy and curiosity. Sherlock wants to go out there, explore and scrutinise the world actively, and would be bored rigid in a office. Mycroft is the opposite and just wants to the world to come to him, passively receiving a load of information, living a cosy routine.
Plus, Sherlock has this pesky tendency to actually like and enjoy being around people, bouts of depression aside.
 

Buyetyen

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So the gist of this thread appears to be that white people cannot handle being asked to empathize with non-white fictional characters. Conclusion: white people are still the worst.
 
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thebobmaster

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So the gist of this thread appears to be that white people cannot handle being asked to empathize with non-white fictional characters. Conclusion: white people are still the worst.
Aren't we just? The lack of melanin in my skin is what defines me, not my character.
 
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Drathnoxis

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So the gist of this thread appears to be that white people cannot handle being asked to empathize with non-white fictional characters. Conclusion: white people are still the worst.
I thought it was that Star Trek is exceedingly poorly written at times.
 

BrawlMan

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Relevant to people being bitches over "there being too many black people or women!" in a show. The best part is the person complaining in the e-mail Korey is responding towards, does not now jack shit about the source material.

 
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Dwarvenhobble

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So something not brought up in this thread yet.

How often the diversity casting ends up a bit racist or just comedically off.

Liana K brought up the fact in the new Netflix Sandman series they decided to race swap his assistant. So now you have a black servant characters.

Or in the Alex Rider series where you end up with a black girl Nazi character.

Or Alex Rider season 2 where they accidentally end up dipping into the "Exotic beauty" racist trope.
 
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