Can someone please explain to me why PC gamers and Console gamers can't get along?

[Azaraxzealot]

i happen to fall into the douche category that is "supposedly" ruining gaming because i like games to be fun and uncomplicated (see: Saints Row 2, 3) and because i love the ease of use of just putting in a game and playing without having to worry about install times, DRM, and basically rolling a die every time as to whether or not the game will run without chugging at all. and i like being able to play simple games wherever i go (like Plants vs Zombies) to pass time during transport

PC gamers never complained about Saints Row or other silly fun games like that, it's not like they want games to be over complicated. They are annoyed when games get dumbed down like Morrowind to appeal to mass audience to bring in more sales.

Also consoles have DRM, install times and framedrops, just like PC.

Yes. Yes they did. They also complained about Duke Nukem Forever not having high enough system requirements. They also complained about Crysis 2 not supporting DirectX 1000 or something like that. They also complained about Skyrim because it was getting simpler so the barrier of entry would be lowered so more people could just pick the game up and enjoy it instead of having to memorize millions of stats that really did nothing because the whole world scaled to your levelling anyways (which sucked when you had combat-based quests as part of the main quest and you were levelling your character to be an EXTREMELY effective thief or talker). And my GOD don't get me started on the whining that they did just because Dragon Age 2 had faster animations (mostly it was PC gaming elitists who did the complaining).

Also, I've never played a game that had DRM that required me to always be online lest they cut me off of my single player game.

Also prices take MUCH longer to drop when it comes to digital distribution.

Also I can't return a game I've bought for PC because of said DRM (or, again, it was digitally distributed) if I happen to not enjoy it and there was no demo.

Also I can't run any game more complicated than Warcraft 3 even though my system can SUPPOSEDLY run Grand Theft Auto 4 (with all the graphics turned down, which just makes it look even worse than it already does to a point where the world is just a massive blob).

Also, I've never had framerate stutters on any game I've ever owned. Maybe an emulated game from a past console (KOTOR 2, I'm looking at you.), but otherwise? I've been in some VERY hectic situations in consoles and never once was there lag between a button press and what happened on screen. On a PC? So much as more than a few pretty effects are going off at once and the computer will skip about a dozen frames so you see the beginning and the end of the animation.

Also, you know, there's this bullshit happening as well. [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_265/7935-Punching-the-Baby-Seal-of-PC-Gaming]

I'm not at all saying, YOUR CHOICE IS INFERIOR! Because you may prefer all the above stuff, but what I'm saying is that PC gamers should acknowledge that their platform requires a higher level of maintenance that is beyond the average person (or even people who are considered simply above average), and that their platform has a LOT of problems with it that make the barrier of entry a lot higher than they think. Simply acknowledgement is good enough, because I can acknowledge that on consoles I have to pay for my multiplayer (or have really crappy multiplayer that takes up more bandwith than a 1080p Dailymotion video stream), I have to settle for things looking "worse" (which I've never noticed, but whatever), I have to settle with things being more targeted towards casual gamers (which usually means there's difficulty options), I have to settle with not being able to play certain types of games as well as on the PC (RTS's for instance, I love me some Warcraft 3 for modding), my games can't be modded, I have to pay "more" for my games (though I can actually trade in my games, return them, and run them on any console I choose without installing the game except for a VERY rare few that I can count on one hand, so saying "CONSOLES HAVE INSTALL TIMES TOO!" is kind of dumb when you think about it, unless you're talking about PS3, which still lets you take the game to any person's house that you see fit without throwing up a million screens worth of "NO! ONE CONSOLE AT A TIME!") and my games are "simplified".

 

[hoboman29]

I'll tell you why gamers are the most irrational people on Earth they almost always think there can only be one never thinking that both are good that's why

 

[Jerubbaal]

I'll tell you why gamers are the most irrational people on Earth they almost always think there can only be one never thinking that both are good that's why

So far I've encountered very few PC gamers hjere saying that consoles are bad in and of themselves. I do, however, run into a lot who complain about how the dumbed-down console experience is bleeding over into their PC titles, and that's frankly unacceptable.

 

[Neonsilver]

Fair enough with RAM, they definitely should have 4GB in the next gen. But is the CELL processor that bad? I'm sure they will improve next gen.

Well, I'm not sure what PC CPU's were available at the time of the PS3 release or how good the performance of it was compared to processors at that time.
The problem is that consoles are sooner or later outmatched by PC's and when that happens, it will still take a lot of time for the next console to be released.

Also I can't run any game more complicated than Warcraft 3 even though my system can SUPPOSEDLY run Grand Theft Auto 4 (with all the graphics turned down, which just makes it look even worse than it already does to a point where the world is just a massive blob).

GTA 4 was released about half a year after the console version, I think that it is a good example of a bad console port, and not an example for pc as a bad gaming platform.

 

[zehydra]

Because like all things, one side thinks they are better than the other.

Kinda like how non-Mac users mock my Mac, while I make fun of them.

I take it you're part of the Console crowd then

Eh, like a few others that posted, I'm a hybrid.
I've burnt at least a solid 3-4 years of my life on Warcraft/Starcraft/WoW/Diablo, so I can honestly say I'm not a pure console guy.
I prefer consoles, but if a game is coming out for PC or console, I actually have to take a moment and consider which I want.

And I see what you tried to do there
I have this wonderful thing called "bootcamp" that allows me to operate windows on my Mac whenever I feel like it, and play non-Mac compatible games.
Really amusing to play Oblivion in between classes, and see the surprised looks on people's faces.

and how well does Oblivion run on bootcamp?

 

[Abedeus]

Is that why I've been called a Pyrofag, asked how long I've been gay, told I was a fucking shiteater, been told my mom was good in bed last night and had people describe how they're going to sodomise me on Team Fortress 2 on PC, yet on Killzone 3 I've had people listen about my day, shared some good jokes and been given encouraging advice?

Play on Simiancage or some good servers in general. Or Escapist server. Not the "buy premium, win game" serves.

If I have to quarantine myself from the dickheads, you can't really claim PC gamers act any better than console gamers, simply that there is a means to not have to deal with the dickheads. And since everything has a mute player button, its a moot point anyway.

I didn't say that, as you might notice. I admit that gamers EVERYWHERE are dicks. Especially in competitive PvP games.

However, I haven't met ANYONE who used mic to shout at people in TF2. Ever. I heard people chatting, laughing, joking about gameplay.

 

[lacktheknack]

I blame Activision.

In seriousness, because people pay a good chunk of money for (insert platform of choice here) and thus feel the need to defend it. Even when no one's attacking it.

 

[Torrasque]

Because like all things, one side thinks they are better than the other.

Kinda like how non-Mac users mock my Mac, while I make fun of them.

I take it you're part of the Console crowd then

Eh, like a few others that posted, I'm a hybrid.
I've burnt at least a solid 3-4 years of my life on Warcraft/Starcraft/WoW/Diablo, so I can honestly say I'm not a pure console guy.
I prefer consoles, but if a game is coming out for PC or console, I actually have to take a moment and consider which I want.

And I see what you tried to do there
I have this wonderful thing called "bootcamp" that allows me to operate windows on my Mac whenever I feel like it, and play non-Mac compatible games.
Really amusing to play Oblivion in between classes, and see the surprised looks on people's faces.

and how well does Oblivion run on bootcamp?

Better than it did on my xbox. It averages at ~35 fps, but I've done alot to tweak the performance, and don't use that many mods. I don't get that choppy "loading the world" lag that my xbox has, or the 20 second load times between large areas >_>

 

[hoboman29]

I'll tell you why gamers are the most irrational people on Earth they almost always think there can only be one never thinking that both are good that's why

So far I've encountered very few PC gamers hjere saying that consoles are bad in and of themselves. I do, however, run into a lot who complain about how the dumbed-down console experience is bleeding over into their PC titles, and that's frankly unacceptable.

\

The sad part is that is an elitism issue believing that consoles make pc worse

 

[zehydra]

Because like all things, one side thinks they are better than the other.

Kinda like how non-Mac users mock my Mac, while I make fun of them.

I take it you're part of the Console crowd then

Eh, like a few others that posted, I'm a hybrid.
I've burnt at least a solid 3-4 years of my life on Warcraft/Starcraft/WoW/Diablo, so I can honestly say I'm not a pure console guy.
I prefer consoles, but if a game is coming out for PC or console, I actually have to take a moment and consider which I want.

And I see what you tried to do there
I have this wonderful thing called "bootcamp" that allows me to operate windows on my Mac whenever I feel like it, and play non-Mac compatible games.
Really amusing to play Oblivion in between classes, and see the surprised looks on people's faces.

and how well does Oblivion run on bootcamp?

Better than it did on my xbox. It averages at ~35 fps, but I've done alot to tweak the performance, and don't use that many mods. I don't get that choppy "loading the world" lag that my xbox has, or the 20 second load times between large areas >_>

if it's better than your XBox, I'd say that's good enough. I've seen people use bootcamp before and the results were not really stellar, but hey, whatever works for you.

 

[Torrasque]

Because like all things, one side thinks they are better than the other.

Kinda like how non-Mac users mock my Mac, while I make fun of them.

I take it you're part of the Console crowd then

Eh, like a few others that posted, I'm a hybrid.
I've burnt at least a solid 3-4 years of my life on Warcraft/Starcraft/WoW/Diablo, so I can honestly say I'm not a pure console guy.
I prefer consoles, but if a game is coming out for PC or console, I actually have to take a moment and consider which I want.

And I see what you tried to do there
I have this wonderful thing called "bootcamp" that allows me to operate windows on my Mac whenever I feel like it, and play non-Mac compatible games.
Really amusing to play Oblivion in between classes, and see the surprised looks on people's faces.

and how well does Oblivion run on bootcamp?

Better than it did on my xbox. It averages at ~35 fps, but I've done alot to tweak the performance, and don't use that many mods. I don't get that choppy "loading the world" lag that my xbox has, or the 20 second load times between large areas >_>

if it's better than your XBox, I'd say that's good enough. I've seen people use bootcamp before and the results were not really stellar, but hey, whatever works for you.

There was another way to get windows to work on a mac, but I can't recall. Bootcamp is the best option because the performance hit is still there, but not as severe as other options.
Besides that, there are hundreds if not thousands of ways that I can tweak my mactop to run better for games. Also, considering that I only use bootcamp to play games, its been customized almost to the point of being useless for anything else.
Which is perfectly fine with me. Press a button, reboot my mactop, and it goes back to being badass.
I'll never understand why people prefer pc's over macs, but thats for another thread.

 

[Aprilgold]

PC gamers care too much about graphics.

Wait, what? WHEN THE HELL DID YOU COME TO THAT CONCLUISION!? I have never heard ONE pc gamer [myself included] even MENTION a games graphics, have you BEEN on Xbox Live in the past year? Hell, have you even SHOWED a console gamer Minecraft, or a Snes or even NES title before? I remember showing a young friend of mine Super Mario Brothers, and he refused to play it, and then I showed a PC gamer it, and he played it and DAMN well liked it too.... God, I'm just mad because you made me spit out ice-cream.. Still, HOW DID YOU GET THAT CONCLUISION!?

Then how are the consoles holding you back?

Why else would you spent a shitload of time and money when you could easily get a console and have the same games?

What other defense for PC gaming is there other then better graphics?

(Also, throw some random caps over there ^)

I didn't spend a shit ton, I can't run Crysis, but I can run EVERYTHING else, and I love thRowInG caps EvErYWherE. I spent as much on my PC as it would be a console, upgrading, of course.

 

[LITE992]

It's because these people can't cope with opinions other than theirs. Whenever a console player has an opinion that the PC sucks, the PC player launches into a rage because somebody out there has a legitimate opinion that is different than theirs and vice versa.

 

[fenrizz]

Spoiler

Spoiler: original text

Well, I can see the bad influence consoles have on PC gaming, but since I've owned both pretty much as far back as I can remember, the argument seems kind of moot to me.

Spoiler: original text

Bullshit. How does the negative influence PC games have on consoles not count for just as much? The regression of Splitscreen multiplayer is blood on the PC's hands.

Spoiler: original text

No, the introduction of advanced networking onto consoles caused that...

When devs realised they could network consoles together, that caused them to stop making an effort to deal with split-screen gaming. (Notice how the console with the worst networking features has the highest proportion of split-screen or local multiplayer games?)

Just because the PC had network gaming 10 years before that doesn't mean PC's are at fault for that.

(And PC's had next to no local multiplayer gaming. It was either no multiplayer at all, or network based. I played Doom on a LAN in 1994... But are you seriously going to blame that on game consoles in 2005 no longer having split-screen games?
Or is Xbox live the fault of PC's too?)

Anyway, even if that's true, look at what consoles have done to PC's in that timeframe:

-Badly optimized graphics that underuse the PC's capabilities.
-Control schemes that don't work properly on PC.
-Gradual removal of networking features from PC games. (LAN support - almost gone; Local -instanced multiplayer from a single disk - gone; Dedicated server support - on it's way out
-Reduced complexity in games. (because console input devices can't handle them, and the genres that had that kind of complexity were only ever really popular on PC to begin with.)
- More and more insane DRM
- Loss of demos. (seriously, how many times in recent memory have I seen a game that has demos... Oh, but not for the PC version. Sorry. - Which probably needs it the most, considering the compatibility issues...)
- Reduction in the amount of patching & new features games used to get for free...
- Loss of games that would in the past have had PC versions, but now don't...

I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles, but you had all of one counterpoint (to an aspect of what I said which I consider relatively unimportant), and it wasn't even a good one, if you're trying to blame PC's for stuff...

So basically when a positive aspect of the console experience gets removed, thats a natural progression, but when something from PC games gets removed, thats consoles fault. Double standard much?

Maybe they stopped putting the dedicated server support in for business reasons? Nah, its purely CONSOLES FAULT.

Oh, and to pick one at random from those hallucinations you blame on "the EVIL consoles", if you're trying to claim complexity is somehow native only to PC's? The entire JRPG genre would tell you to shut up, fanboy.

Oh, come on now. Have you got no reading comprehension whatsoever? Let me repeat the crucial part for you: "I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles"

It's not a double standard on my part, it's a counter to you blaming PC's for something that isn't really their fault. Just as most of my examples aren't all that likely to be due to consoles.
Missing the point much?

(Oh, and JRPG, complex? uhuh. I've played enough of them to know that's a total red herring. If that's you're standard for a 'complex' game, you've obviously never dealt with the kind of things I was referring to.)

- More and more insane DRM
- Loss of demos. (seriously, how many times in recent memory have I seen a game that has demos... Oh, but not for the PC version. Sorry. - Which probably needs it the most, considering the compatibility issues...)
- Reduction in the amount of patching & new features games used to get for free...
- Loss of games that would in the past have had PC versions, but now don't...

Just s quick snip right here.
I can't really see how consoles are to blame for any of these things.

1. The amount of insane DRM i believe is generally because of PC piracy (or so they tell us), and therefore has little to do with consoles.

2. Consoles are not to blame for publishers not being willing to take the time to make a demo for PC. the fault here lies with the publisher/developer.

3. Honestly man, how does that have anything to do with consoles? Because the console crowd is used to not getting it?

4. This you can blame on the PC games not purchasing said games. A publishers is not very likely to release a game the don't think will sell.

Good points, but, aside from quoting me out of context, I would also have to direct you to what I said to OutrageousEmu above: (quoting myself from the post you are quoting)

"I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles"

So, yes, you are correct, but in pointing it out you've ignored what I was getting at completely.

Terribly sorry about that.
Seems that I have misunderstood your post completely.

It was never my intention to troll or anything like that, and the only reason I quoted you out of context was to not make a wall of text and only adress the points I was making.

Again, sorry about that.

 

[CrystalShadow]

Spoiler

Spoiler: original text

Well, I can see the bad influence consoles have on PC gaming, but since I've owned both pretty much as far back as I can remember, the argument seems kind of moot to me.

Spoiler: original text

Bullshit. How does the negative influence PC games have on consoles not count for just as much? The regression of Splitscreen multiplayer is blood on the PC's hands.

Spoiler: original text

No, the introduction of advanced networking onto consoles caused that...

When devs realised they could network consoles together, that caused them to stop making an effort to deal with split-screen gaming. (Notice how the console with the worst networking features has the highest proportion of split-screen or local multiplayer games?)

Just because the PC had network gaming 10 years before that doesn't mean PC's are at fault for that.

(And PC's had next to no local multiplayer gaming. It was either no multiplayer at all, or network based. I played Doom on a LAN in 1994... But are you seriously going to blame that on game consoles in 2005 no longer having split-screen games?
Or is Xbox live the fault of PC's too?)

Anyway, even if that's true, look at what consoles have done to PC's in that timeframe:

-Badly optimized graphics that underuse the PC's capabilities.
-Control schemes that don't work properly on PC.
-Gradual removal of networking features from PC games. (LAN support - almost gone; Local -instanced multiplayer from a single disk - gone; Dedicated server support - on it's way out
-Reduced complexity in games. (because console input devices can't handle them, and the genres that had that kind of complexity were only ever really popular on PC to begin with.)
- More and more insane DRM
- Loss of demos. (seriously, how many times in recent memory have I seen a game that has demos... Oh, but not for the PC version. Sorry. - Which probably needs it the most, considering the compatibility issues...)
- Reduction in the amount of patching & new features games used to get for free...
- Loss of games that would in the past have had PC versions, but now don't...

I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles, but you had all of one counterpoint (to an aspect of what I said which I consider relatively unimportant), and it wasn't even a good one, if you're trying to blame PC's for stuff...

So basically when a positive aspect of the console experience gets removed, thats a natural progression, but when something from PC games gets removed, thats consoles fault. Double standard much?

Maybe they stopped putting the dedicated server support in for business reasons? Nah, its purely CONSOLES FAULT.

Oh, and to pick one at random from those hallucinations you blame on "the EVIL consoles", if you're trying to claim complexity is somehow native only to PC's? The entire JRPG genre would tell you to shut up, fanboy.

Oh, come on now. Have you got no reading comprehension whatsoever? Let me repeat the crucial part for you: "I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles"

It's not a double standard on my part, it's a counter to you blaming PC's for something that isn't really their fault. Just as most of my examples aren't all that likely to be due to consoles.
Missing the point much?

(Oh, and JRPG, complex? uhuh. I've played enough of them to know that's a total red herring. If that's you're standard for a 'complex' game, you've obviously never dealt with the kind of things I was referring to.)

- More and more insane DRM
- Loss of demos. (seriously, how many times in recent memory have I seen a game that has demos... Oh, but not for the PC version. Sorry. - Which probably needs it the most, considering the compatibility issues...)
- Reduction in the amount of patching & new features games used to get for free...
- Loss of games that would in the past have had PC versions, but now don't...

Just s quick snip right here.
I can't really see how consoles are to blame for any of these things.

1. The amount of insane DRM i believe is generally because of PC piracy (or so they tell us), and therefore has little to do with consoles.

2. Consoles are not to blame for publishers not being willing to take the time to make a demo for PC. the fault here lies with the publisher/developer.

3. Honestly man, how does that have anything to do with consoles? Because the console crowd is used to not getting it?

4. This you can blame on the PC games not purchasing said games. A publishers is not very likely to release a game the don't think will sell.

Good points, but, aside from quoting me out of context, I would also have to direct you to what I said to OutrageousEmu above: (quoting myself from the post you are quoting)

"I could go on and on with this. And some (or even many) of these complaints would be quite ridiculous - especially in regard to specifically blaming them on consoles"

So, yes, you are correct, but in pointing it out you've ignored what I was getting at completely.

Terribly sorry about that.
Seems that I have misunderstood your post completely.

It was never my intention to troll or anything like that, and the only reason I quoted you out of context was to not make a wall of text and only adress the points I was making.

Again, sorry about that.

Oh, no problem. I didn't think you were doing it deliberately. It's just a little annoying to read someone doing that when I was kind of making the same point by way of example.