Can we stop with the "Batman is more relatable than Superman" thing?

[Cicada 5]

People have died in Superman stories. He's made mistakes. He's let people down. He's been shown to not have the right answer all the time. Do you really think the Superman TAS was just pulling that out of nowhere? They were actually using material from the damn books. If anything, it's the audience that has treated Superman as more ideal than character despite there being decades of him being the opposite.

I'm not sure why you're getting so upset about this. It really isn't that important. I don't think either character is particularly genius. I just think superman is the more absurd.

But I'll be frank. The Superman comics have been routinely terrible. They're not well written. At all. Neither are any of the films, including the ones with Christopher Reeves. Part of it is the result of having totally different writers, with totally different visions, working on him. Part of it is the fact that he's been turned into an absurd power fantasy character. He's carried around entire planets. He's been smacked between two suns. He's lifted infinity. It's the type of thing a fourth grader would come up with. And yet all of that could be easily forgiven if he felt human. But he doesn't. I have never, ever seen him well written as a human being.

I'm not upset. Just pointing out that there's more to this character than you think. Hell, there have been people who say that the scene in All Star SUperman featuring a girl attempting suicide actually helped deal with their depression. Batman has done just as many ridiculous things, some of which are just as straining to suspension of disbelief since he's human. You say the comics and films aren't well written. That, I'm afraid, is very much your opinion. You're entitled to it of course.

I just find it odd you even bothered to comment on a character you don't think is all that important.

 

[Fappy]

Batman and Superman are equally unrelatable characters. In fact, most of the more established super heroes are. I remember reading an interesting interview Alan Moore did awhile back where he basically explained that most Batman stories are worthless outside their entertainment value (and perhaps some philosophy depending on the book). He's basically a god trapped in a man's body who can overcome any physical or mental limits the plot demands. As fun as his stories can be, he's an incredibly dull character on his own.

 

[happyninja42]

I didn't even know that this was a thing. But now that you mentioned it, he's definitely more relatable than Superman.

Its because of that attitude is why we don't get any good Non Batman DC content. Name one GOOD Wonder Woman, Green Latern, and Flash comic book right out of your head?

Batman monoplized DC's attention. Batman sadly has become the face of DC when really it should be Superman.

Seeing Batman in the center of a Justice League group shot is just wrong.

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/68/6896/NNTJ100Z/posters/justice-league-of-america-generations-group-team-comic-poster.jpg

He's the most popular of the heroes. I'm sorry that you don't like it, but the people buying the comics are speaking with their dollars. And yes, again, I hate it for you, but Batman IS more relatable than Superman, and any other person with superpowers. Because he is just a guy with a huge budget and training. And on a relatability scale, that IS more relatable than aliens and mutants and magical beings.

You seem to be of the opinion that the fans are putting all their money into Batman, because he's the only game in town? Pretty sure it's the other way around. Fans have clamored for Batman content, and DC has supplied the demand. I guess you could say it's a chicken or the egg kind of debate, but I personally don't think it's the way you handle it. If Batman ever stopped making them money, because the fans were simply over saturated with him and couldn't give a shit, they would stop publishing him. They are in it for the money after all.

Personally, I don't find Batman all that interesting, especially as writers bend over so far backwards that they have their heads up their own asses, to justify Batman being "on par" with beings who can crack planets in half. It's gotten to the point of silliness as far as I'm concerned, but hey, I don't write comics, so I'm sure they don't care what I think.

So Superman being raised by Papa and Mama Kent is not relatable. And don't mention the ones from Man of Steel.

And Superman in his teens actually went to school.

The relatability of Superman comes from his alter ego Clark Kent.

I'll mention the ones from Man of Steel if I damn well feel like it thank you very much. You don't get to control what I do and do not reference.

Relatability is a subjective thing. I personally can't relate with someone who is invulnerable, can see through anything, shoot lazers from his eyes, fly, and basically every other damn thing that the writers have tacked onto him over the decades.

Since you seem to think the only thing required to be relatable is "he was raised by parents", well so was Bruce. They were even his real parents. And they both died, something a lot of people can relate to, you know, orphans and stuff, there are a lot of them in the world. Many of them even died in violent ways.

For you Clark is the relatable thing for the character, but for me, it's an act. Clark Kent is his perception of what a human is. It's his facade, not his true self. His true self is a demigod alien who could stomp the planet if he basically wanted to, but doesn't because he's not a dick. Bruce is 100% human, and is basically just a guy with a guilt complex, trying to make the world a better place, the only way he knows how. You seem to be against Bruce because he's basically a 1%'er, and thus is unrelatable, but every representation of him is pretty down to earth, that's why people like him so much.

 

[hermes]

Batman is more relatable because he is human, but that is as far as his relatability goes. When done wrong, they are both extreme Mary Sue examples that can defeat people by pulling new stuff out of their asses (Superman new powers, or new applications for his powers; Batman new gadgets or abilities he had mastered for "just this occasion").

 

[Samtemdo8_v1legacy]

I didn't even know that this was a thing. But now that you mentioned it, he's definitely more relatable than Superman.

Its because of that attitude is why we don't get any good Non Batman DC content. Name one GOOD Wonder Woman, Green Latern, and Flash comic book right out of your head?

Batman monoplized DC's attention. Batman sadly has become the face of DC when really it should be Superman.

Seeing Batman in the center of a Justice League group shot is just wrong.

http://imgc.allpostersimages.com/images/P-473-488-90/68/6896/NNTJ100Z/posters/justice-league-of-america-generations-group-team-comic-poster.jpg

He's the most popular of the heroes. I'm sorry that you don't like it, but the people buying the comics are speaking with their dollars. And yes, again, I hate it for you, but Batman IS more relatable than Superman, and any other person with superpowers. Because he is just a guy with a huge budget and training. And on a relatability scale, that IS more relatable than aliens and mutants and magical beings.

You seem to be of the opinion that the fans are putting all their money into Batman, because he's the only game in town? Pretty sure it's the other way around. Fans have clamored for Batman content, and DC has supplied the demand. I guess you could say it's a chicken or the egg kind of debate, but I personally don't think it's the way you handle it. If Batman ever stopped making them money, because the fans were simply over saturated with him and couldn't give a shit, they would stop publishing him. They are in it for the money after all.

Personally, I don't find Batman all that interesting, especially as writers bend over so far backwards that they have their heads up their own asses, to justify Batman being "on par" with beings who can crack planets in half. It's gotten to the point of silliness as far as I'm concerned, but hey, I don't write comics, so I'm sure they don't care what I think.

So Superman being raised by Papa and Mama Kent is not relatable. And don't mention the ones from Man of Steel.

And Superman in his teens actually went to school.

The relatability of Superman comes from his alter ego Clark Kent.

I'll mention the ones from Man of Steel if I damn well feel like it thank you very much. You don't get to control what I do and do not reference.

Relatability is a subjective thing. I personally can't relate with someone who is invulnerable, can see through anything, shoot lazers from his eyes, fly, and basically every other damn thing that the writers have tacked onto him over the decades.

Since you seem to think the only thing required to be relatable is "he was raised by parents", well so was Bruce. They were even his real parents. And they both died, something a lot of people can relate to, you know, orphans and stuff, there are a lot of them in the world. Many of them even died in violent ways.

For you Clark is the relatable thing for the character, but for me, it's an act. Clark Kent is his perception of what a human is. It's his facade, not his true self. His true self is a demigod alien who could stomp the planet if he basically wanted to, but doesn't because he's not a dick. Bruce is 100% human, and is basically just a guy with a guilt complex, trying to make the world a better place, the only way he knows how. You seem to be against Bruce because he's basically a 1%'er, and thus is unrelatable, but every representation of him is pretty down to earth, that's why people like him so much.

But the difference between the Kents and the Waynes is that Papa and Mama Kent are not rich aristocrats.

And again Superman was raised among a humble middle-class ordinary family, batman is a priviliged White-Coller man.

And as I mentioned before Superman sometimes see himself as human at times.

Just watch the Animated Series or read What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way if you want a good Superman story.

Or a Story where Superman is not infallible case in point Peace of Earth.

 

[remnant_phoenix]

Batman - has more money than god.
Superman - is a god.

I find neither of these as relatable, at all.

This post is best post.

In all seriousness, I think more people find Batman more relatable by same token that they find Call of Duty "realistic." When you get right down to it, neither of these popular things are what people think they are, respectively. Batman and CoD are just more "hardcore" than their alternatives, and that's why they're liked.

 

[happyninja42]

But the difference between the Kents and the Waynes is that Papa and Mama Kent are not rich aristocrats.

So? I'm not a farmer, I didn't grow up in Iowa, why the hell should that make the Kent's more relatable than an urban couple? And from the content we see in most Batman stuff, the Wayne's were hardly aristocrats. They did lots of charity work, his father was a doctor, and he spent a lot of his time and effort to try and help other people. The Kents....they grew crops. Whoopty doo.

And again Superman was raised among a humble middle-class ordinary family, batman is a priviliged White-Coller man.

You keep saying this, but it isn't making Kal-el any more relatable. He's still a freaking alien with godlike powers, I don't find him as relatable compared to Batman. That doesn't mean I can't relate to him, but you specifically asked about Batman being more relatable than Superman. And sorry, for some of us, he is. You keep saying that Kal-el thinks he's human, but he doesn't operate as a human. He solves his problems with godlike powers most of the time. Wayne always has to solve things with mundane means, because that's all he's got. He can't punch you through a planet, he can't shoot you with eye beams. He's got his body, his skills, and whatever gear he's got. And he has to make do with that.

And as I mentioned before Superman sometimes see himself as human at times.

Just watch the Animated Series or read What's So Funny About Truth, Justice and the American Way if you want a good Superman story.

Or a Story where Superman is not infallible case in point Peace of Earth.

I love how you keep responding as if you are absolutely right, and we are just wrong, and need to be educated to see things your way. What you are stating as objective fact is actually a subjective matter that varies from person to person. You are fighting a futile fight. Some of us simply do not agree with you.

 

[Squanchy]

So can we now finally stop with the whole "Batman is more relatable than Superman because Batman has no powers, he is human like us, Superman is too OP."

Can we finally stop with that excuse now since THIS just recently happened and to comic book readers that are reading the new 52 Spoilers:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/d0z51jpofjkbb9bkbm3v.jpg

(Yes yes I know Gawker Media is the devil, I just linked a Jpeg so you will just see the image and I do not know how to show a whole image in a post)

I'm sorry, you really think it's so odd that people find a human being more repeatable than a literal alien? Putting aside all of the good points made by other people over two pages here, and the many more to come I'm sure, that alone should be enough.

I relate more to batman because we share a species.

Um...yeah. Because the human in said situation might as well be a robot usually for all the emotion he displays and the life he leads and lends to the proceedings. While the alien is pretty much just a regular joe with super powers that he kinda wishes he could get rid of. So literal alien or no, the fact that he looks exactly like a human being, lives as a human, works, and even identifies as a human most of the time...basically it is like trying to argue Star Trek aliens vs terminators. One is obviously more human even if not literally human than the other dressed in human tissue.

Bruce Wayne is no more alien than John Wayne Gacy, John F. Kennedy, Gandhi, Carlos Hathcock, or any of the other notable human outliers. People can be very cold, and training can do amazing things to people. I can't imagine what goes on in the mind of someone who doesn't even share my physiology though, someone who can keep up with The Flash can think like a supercomputer after all. I know how Superman ACTS, but he's truly alien.

Bruce Wayne is just a highly trained operator with a typically traumatic past, lots of money and luck. Superman can turn back time if he's motivated enough, or enslave humanity on a bad day. These are not things a human can ever imagine, and the ability to do things like destroy a planet and all of its life, on a whim, is very alien. No human has ever had that power, never mind that power available in a moment of rage, sorrow, or desperation.

For you Clark is the relatable thing for the character, but for me, it's an act. Clark Kent is his perception of what a human is. It's his facade, not his true self. His true self is a demigod alien who could stomp the planet if he basically wanted to, but doesn't because he's not a dick. Bruce is 100% human, and is basically just a guy with a guilt complex, trying to make the world a better place, the only way he knows how. You seem to be against Bruce because he's basically a 1%'er, and thus is unrelatable, but every representation of him is pretty down to earth, that's why people like him so much.

But Clark Kent was Clark way before his powers emerged and he became superman. He was raised as a human and he still retains the human morality. The idea that superman is some uncomprehending alien God is probably one of the most inaccurate summaries I've ever seen. Even man of Steel had him as a human first (both in history and mindset. He still sacrificed his people to save the earth) you can say that his Clark Kent identity is underused in media, which it is, but for all his power he's still Clark Kent first.

He was raised as a human, but he was never human. You can raise a cat with dogs, and there are some interesting results, but it's never a dog.

 

[McMarbles]

To be honest, while I slightly prefer Batman over Superman, I don't really find either one relatable. In fact, I actually find the Green arrow to be more relatable than either Batman or Superman, but that could be mainly because the Green arrow is my favourite superhero.

At least yours gets screentime, Martian Manhunter and Plasticman are tied for my #2 slot and I don't think they're ever going to be more than comic and cartoon characters.

Also to be fair, Green Arrow is honestly just DC's knockoff Batman for when they didn't want oversaturation.

You haven't been watching Supergirl, have you. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

 

[McMarbles]

So can we now finally stop with the whole "Batman is more relatable than Superman because Batman has no powers, he is human like us, Superman is too OP."

Can we finally stop with that excuse now since THIS just recently happened and to comic book readers that are reading the new 52 Spoilers:

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/d0z51jpofjkbb9bkbm3v.jpg

(Yes yes I know Gawker Media is the devil, I just linked a Jpeg so you will just see the image and I do not know how to show a whole image in a post)

I'm sorry, you really think it's so odd that people find a human being more repeatable than a literal alien? Putting aside all of the good points made by other people over two pages here, and the many more to come I'm sure, that alone should be enough.

I relate more to batman because we share a species.

I am neither a lesbian, nor a rock, nor from space, but I find lesbian space rocks more relatable than Batman.

 

[xaszatm]

I think the biggest reason Superman is never considered more "relatable" than Batman is because people have a hard time understanding the point of Superman, at least on this site. They relate to Batman because Batman is heavily flawed, even though he's the most boring thing about Batman comics. I've heard that Superman represents Hope, Batman represents Justice, and Wonder Woman represents Truth but I think that's not true for Batman. And I do think what Batman represents is why people "emphasize" more with him. Batman, for all his talk about Justice is truly about emotion.

Batman, for all of his supposed stoicness, wears his heart on his sleeve. He still, years later, has never gotten over his parent's death. Many of his Bat-Family are people he emphasizes with and trains out of said empathy. His empathy even stretches out to the villains he face which is the biggest reason why he never takes a life and always advocates rehabilitation via mental help or prison. Logically, Bruce Wayne would do more good if he used his money in social reforms, health care, and such programs to combat the causes behind most crimes. But as a creature of emotion, he digs into that part of all of us that wishes we could just DO something direct. Sure, it makes us feel good but in the long run, it is pretty much a useless gesture.

I do admit to liking Superman and I do know that in a cynical site as this, he would never be seen as relatable to many, and I have had the "honor" of being called naive once for even saying I liked him. Many people say he's boring because he's a Boy Scout, but I don't think people actually stop to think how hard it is to be Superman. How hard it is to do the right thing, and how hard it is even to know what the right thing is. And good Superman stories such as Superman vs. the Elite are prime examples of why he actually can be very relatable.

All in all, I find the personal struggle to be good, the conflict to go beyond your gut feelings and personal satisfaction and do what needs to be done even if you're the only one willing do to it to be very relatable. It's just that it's never going to be more relatable than the hero he DOES follow his gut and personal satisfaction.

 

[happyninja42]

He was raised as a human, but he was never human. You can raise a cat with dogs, and there are some interesting results, but it's never a dog.

Humanity isn't defined by how much we can lift, or fly though. Clark Kent never lived on Krypton, he may not be a homosapien, but he's an earthling all the same.

Batman, on the other hand, has embezzled billions of dollars from his own company, gotten multiple children killed and crippled, has inadvertently created several super villains, and to when end? to make either a negative, or zero difference in one city.

Our hero everyone.

I find it interesting that you use the fact that Kal-El killed the kryptonians (most of which were embryonic infants) as an example of his humanity, and then use the fact that Batman killed some children to vilify him. Considering he basically decided to commit genocide based on the actions of only 4 or so people, it's a pretty shitty thing to do. I don't see how it should be lauded as some noble sacrifice on his part. Nor does it make him more relatable to me.

And I wouldn't use the "he made more super villains with his actions, and has made zero impact on the city he governs" as any kind of argument in comic books. None of them make any significant difference. It's because the publishers can't stop making comics with those villains. Superman has made many villains himself, and has equally not made much difference in the overall criminality of the world. He keeps arresting them, and they keep breaking out and doing more harm. In fact, he and Batman are pretty much the same in that regard. They only do damage control, but since no supervillain can ever actually be killed (because the fans would lose their shit if this happened, and thus hurt sales), it's an eternal cycle of crime/capture/punishment/escape/etc. The only thing reliable in comics is the status quo.

 

[thebobmaster_v1legacy]

For me, it has nothing to do with "human" vs. "alien", because if that were the case, I'd have only been able to relate to one main character in Guardians of the Galaxy, 3 main characters in the first Mass Effect, and maybe half of the main characters in Dragon Age.

No, for me, the main issue is that it takes a lot more effort to stay true to Superman and not make him ridiculously powerful than for Batman. I'm not saying it can't be done, mind you. There have been plenty of Superman stories that show character flaws, or have him somehow not come out on top.

However, a lot of those stories with Superman involve his own hang-ups holding him back. Sure, he could easily kick the ass of every villain...but he holds himself back intentionally. I'm not saying that he is wrong for doing so, or that it makes him "weak". My point is that a lot of the conflicts for Superman would be taken care of if he just went all-out.

Compare to Batman. He holds back in exactly one way: no killing. Not only has that rule itself caused problems directly (like pretty much anyone Joker has killed), but he's gotten the crap beat out of him a fair bit more often than Superman has (Knightfall and The Dark Knight Returns are the big examples I can think of), and he's had those around him put in danger or even killed. Yes, I know Jason Todd came back. About 20 years later, and pissed off to all hell about Batman "getting him killed". That's not even getting into how open the stories are that Batman is not exactly mentally stable (not usually to All-Star Batman and Robin standards, but Alfred isn't above the wisecracks about his behavior).

I'm not saying people are wrong for finding Superman more relatable to Batman, especially because writers do tend to get carried away with "Batman can beat everyone with enough preparation). But there is a reason people find Batman to be more interesting and less "boring" than Superman, and it doesn't have a lot to do with just plain ignorance.

 

[Redryhno]

So I'm going to go ahead and assume a lot of us here are sci-fi/fantasy fans right? I'm sure at least some of you like LOTR, Star Trek, Dragon Age, Mass Effect and god knows how many others. What I'm getting at is we all like things that have races beyond humans. We all like and relate to characters who aren't humans... Why is Superman's not being born on Earth an immediate disqualification for relatability? Hell he's as much an Alien as Luke Skywalker is. A long time ago in a galaxy far far away implies that our galaxy exists. Luke isn't an Earthling, why can we relate to him? Hell on top of not being one of us he's a space wizard.

It is absolutely correct that Batman isn't more relatable than Superman. The opposite is also true. Don't know why people are getting so worked up over how much other people relate to characters they don't like.

Personally him being an alien doesn't even factor into it beyond his powers. He just hasn't had enough stories that focus on his humanity(or even the Clark Kent part of him) beyond "I grew up on a farm, du-dee-du-de-du" or "I can't hit him full force or else he'll be the new paint" most of the time.

To be honest, while I slightly prefer Batman over Superman, I don't really find either one relatable. In fact, I actually find the Green arrow to be more relatable than either Batman or Superman, but that could be mainly because the Green arrow is my favourite superhero.

At least yours gets screentime, Martian Manhunter and Plasticman are tied for my #2 slot and I don't think they're ever going to be more than comic and cartoon characters.

Also to be fair, Green Arrow is honestly just DC's knockoff Batman for when they didn't want oversaturation.

You haven't been watching Supergirl, have you. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised.

Actually did marathon it since I posted that after I heard Supergirl got better after the third episode or so(I still think they keep trying to hammer the "THIS IS SUPERGRILL GRILLPOWER" thing home a bit too much, though I have gotten to love Kat because she is essentially the audience with her rebuttals and they love ending in the middle of a conversation). Was certainly pleasantly surprised.



It is absolutely correct that Batman isn't more relatable than Superman. The opposite is also true. Don't know why people are getting so worked up over how much other people relate to characters they don't like.[/quote]

 

[deadish]

Batman is more relatable on an emotional level.

Superman is the immaculate boy scout. Batman is pretty much a film noir PI/detective (warts and all) in a cape with fancy gadgets.

In addition, Batman's stories are in general more relatable too IMHO. Superman fights aliens and out of this world threats. Batman fights criminals with very human motives - as I said, Batman is really the superhero version of a film noir PI/detective.

 

[Asita]

For you Clark is the relatable thing for the character, but for me, it's an act. Clark Kent is his perception of what a human is. It's his facade, not his true self. His true self is a demigod alien who could stomp the planet if he basically wanted to, but doesn't because he's not a dick. Bruce is 100% human, and is basically just a guy with a guilt complex, trying to make the world a better place, the only way he knows how. You seem to be against Bruce because he's basically a 1%'er, and thus is unrelatable, but every representation of him is pretty down to earth, that's why people like him so much.

But Clark Kent was Clark way before his powers emerged and he became superman. He was raised as a human and he still retains the human morality. The idea that superman is some uncomprehending alien God is probably one of the most inaccurate summaries I've ever seen. Even man of Steel had him as a human first (both in history and mindset. He still sacrificed his people to save the earth) you can say that his Clark Kent identity is underused in media, which it is, but for all his power he's still Clark Kent first.

I can see what you're trying for, but no. He really isn't. Much like with Bruce Wayne and Batman, it's more accurate to say that Clark Kent is a disguise for Superman than Superman is a disguise for Clark Kent. Clark is a facade, which Kal-El plays up as a loser from Kansas. As aptly put in Blackest Night and shown by Christopher Reeve, as Clark he not only dons a pair of unnecessary glasses but deliberately slouches, wears clothes several sizes too large, changes his mannerisms and speaking style, and raises his voice an octave. Clark is a character he plays, not his true personality or nature.