Can we talk about the apparent culture of sexual abuse in the american film industry?

Casual Shinji

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stroopwafel said:
Wiener is a product of it's time just as you are. One is a alpha male sleezeball that obsessively chases AAA poon and the other is a 30-something virgin that has given up on life and sex.
Thanks for making clear you are indeed a person worthy of being completely ignored with that insult. You have just revealed yourself to be a truly unpleasant individual. Bravo.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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stroopwafel said:
He didn't 'force' himself onto women rather he jerked off in a plant when his avances failed. You could say his sleezy behavior is very '70s but the way he acted it out is actually very 2017. An era in which people resort more to self-help and fantasy as a poor man's surrogate for the real thing. Wiener is a product of it's time just as you are. One is a alpha male sleezeball that obsessively chases AAA poon and the other is a 30-something virgin that has given up on life and sex.
I guess you missed the part where several women reported that he grabbed them, blocked their exit or otherwise tried to keep them from leaving? Here [https://www.theguardian.com/film/ng-interactive/2017/oct/13/the-weinstein-allegations], have a list of allegations against him, with nuggets like:
*"He pushed me inside and rammed me up against the coat rack in my tiny hall and started fumbling at my gown. He was trying to kiss me and shove inside me. It was disgusting."
*"Then before I knew it, he started trying to pull my clothes off and pin me down and I just kept saying ?no, no, no?. But he was really forceful. I remember him pulling at my trousers and stuff and looming over me."
*"He literally chased me. He wouldn?t let me pass him to get to the door. I just thought to myself: I can?t believe you?re doing this to me. I?m so offended ? we just had a meeting."

There's plenty of that sort of stuff on that list. Read it, perhaps it'll make you understand.

stroopwafel said:
People also have the responsibility to stand up for themselves and not always rely on the protection of others. Again, ofcourse, legislature prevents certain lines from being crossed(again such as violation of physical integrity) but you can't 'criminalize' a douchebag nor can you consider a doormat to be a victim. If we're talking about school bullying ofcourse schools have the responsibility to prevent bullying just as it's the prerogative of companies to make policies that prevent employees from making sexual innuendos to one another. But these are civil matters not legal ones.
Never mind that coercing someone into sex, even without physical threats, is considered a felony in the US and a crime that lands you jail time in pretty much all western countries. When you're 5'8, 120 lbs it is not exactly 'doormat' to not want to piss of the 6' 200 lbs+ guy who's closing in on you and demanding stuff. A recurring theme in the allegations against Weinstein is the actresses pointing out that he's a big man and that they didn't know how they'd be able to defend themselves if he got physical.

But shit, don't let reality get in the way of your convoluted victim blaming.
 

stroopwafel

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Gethsemani said:
There's plenty of that sort of stuff on that list. Read it, perhaps it'll make you understand.
If Wiener did become physically abusive then all these women were in their right to press charges. Yet none did. Now don't give me that naive country girl crap. These women weren't delicate flowers that lived under a rock their whole life and couldn't possibly imagine some Hollywood big shot with a reputation would be solely courteous and professional even if the only reason they were invited by Wiener in the first place were their good looks(I don't see any 100-pound whales accusing him). Nobody can be that naive. And again if he did cross the line into physical abuse they were in their right to press charges.

This is what actually happened. Wienerschnitzel helped many actresses and models to prosperous careers and not just for their 'talent'. These women were free to either solicitate another agent, reject any avances he made or press charges if he infringed on their physical integrity. Yeah his innuendos were sleezy but this was a two-way street as women used him for a ticket to fame and riches as well(one only has to look at his wife who left the moment the media torched his career).

Now figure this the once Hollywood bigshot who had a questionable reputation for decades was showered with awards and prizes and then all those movie companies that were delighted to do business with him and not exactly a shortage of 'talent' that solicited his services. Then, the media crucified him and suddenly his 'friends' dropped him, award committees revoke his prizes, movie studios don't want to do business with him anymore, his wife leaves him and women who he helped into a career accuse him of abuse. The hypocrisy of both the media, the entire Hollywoord circus that surrounds him as well as his female Inquisitors on shitter and instagram is fucking breathtaking.

Never mind that coercing someone into sex, even without physical threats, is considered a felony in the US and a crime that lands you jail time in pretty much all western countries. When you're 5'8, 120 lbs it is not exactly 'doormat' to not want to piss of the 6' 200 lbs+ guy who's closing in on you and demanding stuff. A recurring theme in the allegations against Weinstein is the actresses pointing out that he's a big man and that they didn't know how they'd be able to defend themselves if he got physical.
So being fat is a crime in your opinion? As according to you they were riling in fear from his physical presence too afraid to either stand up for themselves or press charges. Give me a break. They just didn't want to jeopardize their career. If he really did coerced women into sex don't you think it's a little strange that apparently these women value their career more than any grave offense that was inflicted on them? No, they could wait years, or even decades, for the media to torch his career and then(and only then) come out the woodwork to throw some rocks at him. Really, any court of law must be blown away by the sincerity of those accusations.
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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stroopwafel said:
This is what actually happened.
Don't give me that bullshit. You have no fucking clue what 'actually happened'. You are exercising increasingly vigorous mental gymnastics to justify the fact that you'd prefer to blame the women who got harassed then the man who harassed them. All that bullshit about these women not pressing charges, about Weinstein getting awards despite being a sexual predator etc. are all easily explainable by anyone with even a cursory interest in understanding the dynamics of sexual harassment and abuse (like the fact that victims of sexual harassment often feel shame and guilt over being victims and feel more guilt over filing a police report). Some of that is even explicitly laid out in the article I linked you, which you obviously didn't even care to examine.

stroopwafel said:
So being fat is a crime in your opinion?
Nice ad hominem. Bad reading comprehension though.

stroopwafel said:
As according to you they were riling in fear from his physical presence too afraid to either stand up for themselves or press charges. Give me a break. They just didn't want to jeopardize their career.
You do realize that the two aren't mutually exclusive, right? You can be afraid of someone's capacity for physical violence at one point and their ability to ruin your whole life in another. That you try to play down the fact that these women were afraid of having their livelihood taken away if they either didn't comply or filed a police report against Weinstein is cute though. I mean, I'd love to live in your world, where threats and coercion apparently aren't that big of a deal and everyone can always act as a perfect free agent without any outside pressure.

stroopwafel said:
If he really did coerced women into sex don't you think it's a little strange that apparently these women value their career more than any grave offense that was inflicted on them?
Not at all. I'm a rape victim who hasn't filed a police report more then a decade after the fact (and never will). There are many reasons why victims of sexual harassment and abuse don't file police reports or talk about it, many of them related to psychological trauma and social stigma. One of the most common reaction to sexual abuse is to distance yourself from it as much as possible by never speaking about it, trying not to think about it and avoiding all stimuli that might remind you of it. This is also something that is repeatedly brought up on the Guardian's list of allegations against Weinstein. If you never want to think about something again, going public with it or filing a police report is a spectacularly counter-productive thing to do. Especially as the latter will invariably devolve into several hours of intimate questions that will force you to really think about what happened.

At this point it is increasingly obvious that you don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about, but desperately want this issue to fit into your pre-conceived notion that women are conniving assholes that are now ganging up on a sleazy but ultimately innocent dude who just wanted to fuck beautiful young women.
 

hermes

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Not to diminish the importance of taking down disgusting people like Weinstein, but this is hardly a new thing. Sexual extortion, influences market, are all "business as usual" in Hollywood.

In many ways, having an industry built around money and power on one side, and beauty and charisma on the other is a formula for some sleazy business practices.
 

hermes

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stroopwafel said:
This is what actually happened. Wienerschnitzel helped many actresses and models to prosperous careers and not just for their 'talent'. These women were free to either solicitate another agent, reject any avances he made or press charges if he infringed on their physical integrity. Yeah his innuendos were sleezy but this was a two-way street as women used him for a ticket to fame and riches as well.
Yes, please. Tell me more about how in a city built around the show business, a random woman can freely change agents or reject his advances without fear of repercussions about his life or his career, or make accusations about one of the richest and more powerful people in town and the authorities are going to take her seriously, maybe even put him in jail, because she has the right on her side. Maybe they should not tried to con this poor soul, who only wanted to help them blossom their career out of the goodness of his heart. Maybe that is "what actually happened"...
 

stroopwafel

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Gethsemani said:
At this point it is increasingly obvious that you don't have the faintest clue what you're talking about, but desperately want this issue to fit into your pre-conceived notion that women are conniving assholes that are now ganging up on a sleazy but ultimately innocent dude who just wanted to fuck beautiful young women.
Not at all, claiming I have anything against women in general(when the opposite is true, I have many female friends) is just a weak argument, suggestive and totally irrelevant. I also don't think I have been exactly positive about Wienerschnitzel either. I only argued that women aren't necessarily more honest than men and that both can be self-serving but express it in different ways. Since you said you were a victim yourself out of respect ofcourse I won't attempt to discredit any part of that post. I feel like I'm repeating myself anyway.

hermes said:
Yes, please. Tell me more about how in a city built around the show business, a random woman can freely change agents or reject his advances without fear of repercussions about his life or his career, or make accusations about one of the richest and more powerful people in town and the authorities are going to take her seriously, maybe even put him in jail, because she has the right on her side. Maybe they should not tried to con this poor soul, who only wanted to help them blossom their career out of the goodness of his heart. Maybe that is "what actually happened"...
Are you smoking something? I can't follow a word you're saying.
 

Cowabungaa

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Combustion Kevin said:
They could have refused and tried somewhere else
Which shows that you have very little grasp on how Hollywood works. How about listening to the actresses, yes? How about you listen to those tapes, yes? What happened in those should not be legal, hell it pretty much isn't legal.

inu-kun said:
Because it's insulting to the average man. When you use the term culture it insinuates that the phenomenon is an integral part of society but it's in fact a tiny minority of men (and probably women, though it gets under reported) abusing their power for sexual gains.
Fuck what's insulting to the average man. Don't for a second pretend that they're/we're the victim here. Women suffer heavily under sexual intimidation from men. We call it 'rape culture' thanks to the sheer size of the issue. There's no insinuation that the phenomenon is an integral part of our society. It straight up means that because for all practical intents and purposes it is part of our society.
 

McElroy

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Cowabungaa said:
If anything what people need to realise is that power relationships and power imbalances are everywhere, and that in that regard women often still get the short end of the stick and way too often suffer because of it. It's not complicated at all but so many people still refuse to see it.
The cynical part of me can't help but say that since sexual power is nowadays in women's hands, it is only fair that the situation balances out. It's also the part of me I express most often.

inu-kun said:
If you called it "Jewish rape culture" (as fitting the particular case) you'd immediately see how terrible the term is.
Watch out, you might get a warning. :^)
 

Kenbo Slice

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stroopwafel said:
Not at all, claiming I have anything against women in general(when the opposite is true, I have many female friends) is just a weak argument, suggestive and totally irrelevant.
If one of your female friends gets raped or sexually assaulted are you going to tell them it's their fault for not defending themselves? You're one step away from being those guys who says they were asking for it because they were wearing a skirt.
 

Combustion Kevin

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Kenbo Slice said:
If one of your female friends gets raped or sexually assaulted are you going to tell them it's their fault for not defending themselves? You're one step away from being those guys who says they were asking for it because they were wearing a skirt.
If one of your friends took sexual favors to get a promotion, are you going to tell them they were raped?
You're one step away from being one of those guys that says sex can retroactively become rape if the woman retracts consent long after the event.
 

runic knight

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Wrex Brogan said:
Thaluikhain said:
Must we blame the victims all the time?
Well, it is a thread about sexual abuse on the Escapist, so... kinda a given someone's going to do it.
09philj said:
RedRockRun said:
Hollywood execs trading jobs for sex? What else is new. But I'm sure they're all a bunch of Republicans, right? The left cares about women.

The difference with Bill Clinton is that the women actually wanted to sleep with him.
I can't think of anything to add to this. Gave me a good dark laugh though.
 

stroopwafel

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Kenbo Slice said:
stroopwafel said:
Not at all, claiming I have anything against women in general(when the opposite is true, I have many female friends) is just a weak argument, suggestive and totally irrelevant.
If one of your female friends gets raped or sexually assaulted are you going to tell them it's their fault for not defending themselves? You're one step away from being those guys who says they were asking for it because they were wearing a skirt.
Ehmm..no. I won't bother to respond to this stupid question any further as it's obvious you haven't read any of my comments anyway. I'll remove myself from the discussion now before any of this gets ugly.
 

Trunkage

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inu-kun said:
Cowabungaa said:
inu-kun said:
That's true of every crime done by rich or powerful people: tax evasion, embezzling, violence, drunk driving, taking drugs etc.

Maybe if people call it "rich or powerful people getting scot free from crimes culture" then people would approve the term. Also will be appropriate to the common man who doesn't regularly rape people but still be implied to be rapist by the term.
Except that this goes beyond the rich and powerful. Don't forget that power is relative. A middle manager with an average wage is more powerful than the young clerk with a low wage and can lord that over them, including in sexual ways. It's not without reason that sexual intimidation is everywhere. If anything what people need to realise is that power relationships and power imbalances are everywhere, and that in that regard women often still get the short end of the stick and way too often suffer because of it. It's not complicated at all but so many people still refuse to see it.
Because it's insulting to the average man. When you use the term culture it insinuates that the phenomenon is an integral part of society but it's in fact a tiny minority of men (and probably women, though it gets under reported) abusing their power for sexual gains.

If you called it "Jewish rape culture" (as fitting the particular case) you'd immediately see how terrible the tern is.
OR you could just grow up and realise that it means those that participate in the culture. All these pages are fighting over a word because someone wants to be a snowflake.

Also, you get that 'being insulted' as you say that the average man feels, is so many ranks below what these women have gone through. It makes men seems weak, pedantic and self-centred, focusing on how insulted they feel instead situations that are way worse. And most importantly, its just proving the SJWs right. Stop being a stereotype

Another tack would be 'culture covers all men, how about we choose another word that covers only those you actually do something dodge.' Finding possible solutions usually works better than just complaining
 

CheetoDust_v1legacy

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We shouldn't say rape cultures because it's insulting to men? Political correctness gone mad I say! Down with the snowflakes! Retreat to your safe spaces cuks!
 

TheMysteriousGX

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In other entertainment related news: Bill O'Reilly settled a sexual harassment case out of court for 32 million dollars and renewed his contract with Fox News.
 

CheetoDust_v1legacy

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altnameJag said:
In other entertainment related news: Bill O'Reilly settled a sexual harassment case out of court for 32 million dollars(/b] and renewed his contract with Fox News.
Jesus Fuck. I remember in like 2007 the leaked voicemails to his assistant(?) or someone else at fox news. Have we already forgotten that Bill O'Reilly is "The Loofa Guy". We know he sexually harasses people. We've heard him do it.