Can we talk about the "friend zone" and "nice guys" for a moment?

[teh_v]

I'm throwing this out there simply cause I'm not sure if I'm the person your describing or not. Full disclosure while confident in many parts of my life, asking woman out has never been one. I've had girlfriends but I'm still shaking off a lousy year of being a friend to a girl whom I was interested and she knew I was interested (I don't hide my emotions)and was using me as a rebound guy and ego booster between random guys she would date.

Anyways onto the story, the last girl I was interested in started off a friend. We meet at a party I was throwing and their was nothing sexual at all. We quickly became friends and bar buddies, going to bars and watching each other backs. After, five months of this I just woke up and realized I had feeling for her. Soon after I realized this she broke up with her current boyfriend. (I had nothing to do with the breakup. I stayed neutral cause I was still her friend.) After half a day of flirting I asked her out. Kinda flubbed it and she told me not interested, mostly cause she just broke up with someone and wasn't ready to date. I say okay tell her I'm gonna need a couple of days but it's cool. After those few days I start talking to her again and she tells me she dating a girl now and start going into detail about how awesome she is, we're both drunk at the time. I get really depressed and mad all at the same time. I don't even really know why cause I'm really happy she's found someone. We get in a huge fight that I can barely remember and after the ceremonial defriending on facebook, I realize I was an asshole and wrote her a hand written letter saying I'm sorry and telling her she's always been a good friend to me. Anyways that was a month ago and we haven't talked since. I can't tell if I was one of those self entitled "nice guys" and fucked it all up or what. If I was tell and advice on how not to be one would be awesome.

Sorry, it was so long. I can't write a short statement to save my life.

TLR Had a close friend, Asked her out, got rejected, she starts dating someone else, we get in a fight, I apologize but we haven't talked since. Am I one of those "nice guys" if so advice on how not to be one.

 

[Jzolr0708]

I agree with you, but in some situations, the girl is also at fault. Nothing fills me with rage more than the girl who comes complaining to her guy friend who obviously likes her over text, talking about how she wishes she could find a good guy, just wanting him to raise her self esteem so she can go out with another douche and leave him hanging. Women dont owe men relationships at all, but on the other hand, men dont owe women any sympathy for when they make relationship choices that are clearly stupid. If you don't want to date douches, stop dating the guy who wears sunglasses in doors, pretends to be Wiz Khalifa, and talks about his penis all the time.

I did the friend zone shit Freshmen year. It was disappointing and pointless. Word of advice to all nice guys out there: Women dont like douchebags, they like confidence. And if you're really that mad at the girl who friend zoned you or shut you down, dont whine about it. Go out, get a haircut, go to the gym; make her see what shes missing.

 

[dragonswarrior]

BTW i notice that nice guys seem to think they are entitled to women alot of you so called nice guys really creep me out

I just wanna point out that if a "nice" guy thinks he is entitled to women's affections because he is nice... then he isn't a nice guy. And should stop lying to himself. Actual nice people are friendly people, regardless of how someone views them.

OT: This is too complicated to turn into a silly black and white debate. Friendzones and dating and everything... People are people, affection is affection....

And now the girl is left without a friend, and the knowledge that you were only friends with her in hopes of getting in her pants.

Do you realize how ridiculous whining about being "friend zoned" is? And that if you really wanna be a nice guy, that you should be nice to girls even if you don't want in their pants?

While you weren't very polite about it I can agree with most of the stuff you say, except this. This ticks me off. Kindly please do not imply that all men looking for relationships are looking for sex, and that all "nice" men who want a deeper relationship with a friend are just looking for sex.

Undoubtedly, some men are. As I stated above, they are not nice people, they simply know how to act nice. Perhaps some of them are ones you have run into, or they are the guys who keep posting about their friendzone troubles in the forums. They suck insidiously. Ignore them.

And don't lump the rest of us in with them.

 

[dystopiaINC]

Well, sadly, you can't really test-drive girlfriends. Relationships obviously don't always work out and usually you are gonna need to experience a few shit ones before you find the right one. Sometimes you just have to go for it, even if it might not work out.
Yeah, it sucks you can't always tell if someone's going to be mental without finding out first hand. But that is sadly just life. My previous boyfriend was fine for a while then turned out to be balls-to-the-walls mental. Even if we had stayed friends forever I probably still wouldn't have seen his bad side until we went out.

gotta agree here its annoying to say the least, i would much rather get to know a girl before getting into a relationship...sadly its very rare for that to happen, gotta state your intentions from very near the beginning, more often than not it doesn't work out. well in my case anyways.

here lies a problem.

for instance many of the girls i have been attracted too are girls that i didn't initially think I wanted to date. it was well after i had gotten to know them that I started liking them. what then? I didn't "state my intentions" because there were none. I don't make friends just to get in their pants. I make friends because the people i meet, ladies and gentlemen are awesome and I want to get to know them. is it my fault if sometimes I develop feeling for one of them?

 

[axlryder]

I really agree with OP's statement about people complaining (at least in my own social arena). Friend zoning (as it's often described)is certainly a thing I've seen play out several times with both my guy and girl friends (members of both gender friend zoning and being friends zoned), but it's nothing to really blow up at someone over. Being disappointed? Sure, that's fine. If you've developed feelings for someone and confess, it's natural to be disappointed. But intentionally ending a friendship over it without even considering trying to salvage it is just silly and proves how little their friendship means to you. Yes, sometimes people contradict themselves or have unrealistic/illogical standards or aren't perfectly emotionally healthy and don't know exactly what they want. Basically, they're human. Oh well. My advice would be to either deal with it or try and find someone who isn't that way. You can try and do things to entice them into liking you (I've successfully done this), but you can't make someone like you because they "should".

The only contention I have is if a person is clearly stringing someone along. I can't attest to how often it happens, but I have seen it happen and that's just not cool. I'd like to stress that this is obviously all opinion.

 

[Aprilgold]

Y'know what? Although this needs to be said (but has been said many times before) understanding is a two way street. So here it is from the other side.

You're alone. You've been alone for years. Sure, you have friends, maybe a lot of them, but those pesky human impulses want more. Everyone around you has found someone. Everyone keeps saying there's nothing wrong with you, but the evidence for this claim is scarce.

You meet someone. You like her (or him, if you're that way inclined) she seems to like you. Hard to tell, seeming as everyone you ask for advice peddles out useless cliches like "if it's meant to happen, it'll happen" and "someone for everyone". After building up the courage and figuring out how to do it, a hard task for someone with your lack of experience, you admit your feelings, and she doesn't feel the same.

You're heartbroken. Your seemingly anual (or even less frequent) singular chance has came and went, and you don't even know why. You talk to friends sooner or later, because hell, you can't keep this kind of hurt to yourself forever. More cliches, somehow even more useless than before.

Spending time with the person you liked is hard enough. Suspicions run through your mind, or simple excuses not to be there. She doesn't want you there. The very sight of you disgusts her. Even a bad reason for it to have happened is better than no reason at all. Eventually she gets someone else, and it becomes impossible to spend time with her, not because of jealousy necessarily, but you'll be looking at that person and using him as a battering ram against your own self esteem.

Now, what I'm saying here isn't that it's right, or fair, that the supposed "victim" of "the friend zone" does this, abandons what was a friend, but that it's understandable. People forget how hard it is to stay around someone you love that only likes you.

And I know why it happened to me. I know every damn day I look in the mirror and somehow look more of an abomination than the day before. Everyone's shallow, I know that, even I'm shallow a little. You can't lie and say that isn't the reason, because 90% of the time, it is. Now I don't do that to girls anymore. I don't disappear with barely a word. Because I don't ask girls out anymore, because I know there is only one conclusion, that she rejects me, and either I leave her forever, or completely destroy myself by staying. I've accepted the fact that I will never be wanted. I am a horrifying, disgusting creature, and it was always a bit unfair to expect anyone to be attracted to me, but that doesn't make it an easy thing to accept.

So yeah. It's not fair or right that this "friendzone" effect exists, but it does, because you just don't stop wanting someone because they don't want them back. Quoted because I'm interested to know what you think.

And we come to the great circle of truth about this. Theres a tails to every head, and a paint for every color. Just because "Friend Zone Whining" makes you seem like you felt entitled to sex, it is more or less because of the heart break. You just wanted it so badly and working up that courage takes a long time only to have yourself rejected. Of course its also the ultimate dick move to say that "I like your personality, but you yourself can go die in a tar-pit" or something to that degree.

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Its a dual street. The way I've always seen it is that since I was not handsome enough or fumbled over my two feet that I just was pathetic. In other cases I've experienced, it was for my gifts, and not for my personality. This is only from my experience with dating thus-far and most likely this will change eventually, and obviously is my very biased opinion, but thats it on the matter.

 

[Spearmaster]

hmm, trying to sort out thousands of years of dating turmoil between the sexes in one forum? Good luck but 2 things real quick

1 all is fair in love and war
2 the grass is always greener of the other side

Men and Women are different and have different ways of doing things that usually aggravate the opposite sex in almost every aspect of life, this "friend zone" is just the tip of the iceberg.

Personally its happened to me and Ive done it myself so there is no real answer but for both sides to move on and learn from it.

 

[Vegosiux]

Women aren't aren't a puzzle to be solved; there's no "optimal strategy" that's going to bag you any girl you want.

Bad choice of words. Guys who want to "bag any girl they want" don't have 'friendzone' problems, the just check off a name on the list. And generally, people don't get hurt because "one woman" turned them down but because "this one particular woman" did.

But, just reaffirming what I said so many times before - people should simply stop using stock phrases and actually think for a second about what they're saying.

1 all is fair in love and war

Incorrect. That's one of those sayings that have no meaning. There are things that are not fair, and dishonesty is one of those things, for example.

There's also extensive legislation on what's fair and what isn't in a war, as well.

 

[pearcinator]

and here I thought I was coming into another 'OMG I am le friend-zon3d! what do I do?' thread.

Good job TC.

I was 'friend-zoned' once...im still good friends with the girl but now I think she's a bit weird and dumb so I'm not attracted to her in that way anymore. Besides she has weird tastes in men (mostly ugly mofos)

 

[Smooth Operator]

TLR Had a close friend, Asked her out, got rejected, she starts dating someone else, we get in a fight, I apologize but we haven't talked since. Am I one of those "nice guys" if so advice on how not to be one.

Seems to me you are a person with emotions that broke down when the cuts went too deep.
But if you go by the standard definition of a guys "emotionless pussy hunting badass" then you can quickly reach the conclusion that it is only ever about sex and that is all you were in for, since you have no emotions there is also no reason to ever lash out...

Your approach to the situation was fairly right (giving it a few days to cope) but it wasn't enough time, and then your last conversation was just a poke and prod at those open wounds till it was too much.
Obviously we all want to be brave soldiers that push on through without fail, but that is wishful thinking there will always be breaking points.

 

[greatcheezer2021]

there are girls who are friends and girls who will want to fuck. just be yourself and be the guy that you are. come as you are. you will attract different species of girl and dont be upset at that. do however do not be shy when it comes to taking the opportunity. just be yourself and do what it is you do. however dont force yourself onto any chick. that is fucking things up for yourself. learn to get over things. be yourself.

 

[tobyornottoby]

I'm throwing this out there simply cause I'm not sure if I'm the person your describing or not. Full disclosure while confident in many parts of my life, asking woman out has never been one. I've had girlfriends but I'm still shaking off a lousy year of being a friend to a girl whom I was interested and she knew I was interested (I don't hide my emotions)and was using me as a rebound guy and ego booster between random guys she would date.

Anyways onto the story, the last girl I was interested in started off a friend. We meet at a party I was throwing and their was nothing sexual at all. We quickly became friends and bar buddies, going to bars and watching each other backs. After, five months of this I just woke up and realized I had feeling for her. Soon after I realized this she broke up with her current boyfriend. (I had nothing to do with the breakup. I stayed neutral cause I was still her friend.) After half a day of flirting I asked her out. Kinda flubbed it and she told me not interested, mostly cause she just broke up with someone and wasn't ready to date. I say okay tell her I'm gonna need a couple of days but it's cool. After those few days I start talking to her again and she tells me she dating a girl now and start going into detail about how awesome she is, we're both drunk at the time. I get really depressed and mad all at the same time. I don't even really know why cause I'm really happy she's found someone. We get in a huge fight that I can barely remember and after the ceremonial defriending on facebook, I realize I was an asshole and wrote her a hand written letter saying I'm sorry and telling her she's always been a good friend to me. Anyways that was a month ago and we haven't talked since. I can't tell if I was one of those self entitled "nice guys" and fucked it all up or what. If I was tell and advice on how not to be one would be awesome.

Sorry, it was so long. I can't write a short statement to save my life.

TLR Had a close friend, Asked her out, got rejected, she starts dating someone else, we get in a fight, I apologize but we haven't talked since. Am I one of those "nice guys" if so advice on how not to be one.

It could be possible she told you "not ready to date" to not hurt your feelings with "not attracted to you". Which then would make her dating someone else seem hypocritical but isn't.

You don't really go into details about your feelings and intentions so I have no idea what would be "Nice Guy" and what wouldn't.

 

[tobyornottoby]

Women dont owe men relationships at all, but on the other hand, men dont owe women any sympathy for when they make relationship choices that are clearly stupid.

Indeed. BUT if you really are her friend and a nice guy you give her that. Otherwise you're just a "Nice Guy".

 

[tobyornottoby]

And we come to the great circle of truth about this. Theres a tails to every head, and a paint for every color. Just because "Friend Zone Whining" makes you seem like you felt entitled to sex, it is more or less because of the heart break. You just wanted it so badly and working up that courage takes a long time only to have yourself rejected. Of course its also the ultimate dick move to say that "I like your personality, but you yourself can go die in a tar-pit" or something to that degree.

Why? looks matter to a lot of people. She appreciates you as a friend, no dying in tar-pits required. If this is brought in a tactical manner, there's nothing dickish about it.

 

[Hagi]

I'm throwing this out there simply cause I'm not sure if I'm the person your describing or not. Full disclosure while confident in many parts of my life, asking woman out has never been one. I've had girlfriends but I'm still shaking off a lousy year of being a friend to a girl whom I was interested and she knew I was interested (I don't hide my emotions)and was using me as a rebound guy and ego booster between random guys she would date.

Anyways onto the story, the last girl I was interested in started off a friend. We meet at a party I was throwing and their was nothing sexual at all. We quickly became friends and bar buddies, going to bars and watching each other backs. After, five months of this I just woke up and realized I had feeling for her. Soon after I realized this she broke up with her current boyfriend. (I had nothing to do with the breakup. I stayed neutral cause I was still her friend.) After half a day of flirting I asked her out. Kinda flubbed it and she told me not interested, mostly cause she just broke up with someone and wasn't ready to date. I say okay tell her I'm gonna need a couple of days but it's cool. After those few days I start talking to her again and she tells me she dating a girl now and start going into detail about how awesome she is, we're both drunk at the time. I get really depressed and mad all at the same time. I don't even really know why cause I'm really happy she's found someone. We get in a huge fight that I can barely remember and after the ceremonial defriending on facebook, I realize I was an asshole and wrote her a hand written letter saying I'm sorry and telling her she's always been a good friend to me. Anyways that was a month ago and we haven't talked since. I can't tell if I was one of those self entitled "nice guys" and fucked it all up or what. If I was tell and advice on how not to be one would be awesome.

Sorry, it was so long. I can't write a short statement to save my life.

TLR Had a close friend, Asked her out, got rejected, she starts dating someone else, we get in a fight, I apologize but we haven't talked since. Am I one of those "nice guys" if so advice on how not to be one.

You're not one of those "nice guys".

You have emotions. You got rejected, you got sad. Then even though she turned you down because it was too soon she starts dating someone else who it's apparently not too soon for. You got angry.

It happens. You didn't become friends with her for the sole purpose of eventually getting a pity-fuck. You made a friend, you had months of fun with that friend, life happened, you lost a friend.

C'est la vie.

If you think it's salvageable then invite her to hang out for a bit again. If you think it's not or she turns you down, move on. You had a few good months, got to know a person, fell in love etc. Even if it ends, that's a pretty good thing to happen I'd say.

Appreciate what you had for the good things and try to find more of that in the future.

 

[Benni88]

I don't know many people who would advertise, even to their guy friends, that they have been friendzoned. And most friendzonees can't pluck up the courage to actually tell the girl they like them in the first place.

 

[idodo35]

it is moronic to ***** about being friend zoned but it is also very frustrating think about it your put effort your being nice and caring and then u get rejected (something that is frustrating even without the effort) that doesnt make the girl a ***** and if you really are a "good guy" you accept it but it is frustrating none the less also after you admit something like that there is no going back which sucks donky balls...
and the "i wish i could find a guy like you" thing doesnt make her an hypocrite but is again rage inducing because someone you want is saying yea your nice but not for me ladies THAT DOESNT HELP it just make you feel bitter and angry...
and yes i do have expiriance with being a good guy and friend zoned i am curently in 2 diffrent friend zones and it sucks... doesnt make the girls bitches but it sucks none the less...
so thats my 2 cents have a good day!

snip

 

[tobyornottoby]

Then even though she turned you down because it was too soon she starts dating someone else who it's apparently not too soon for. You got angry.

Here's where I'm saying she might have said that just to be sensitive to his feelings, rather than it being The Truth.

 

[Hagi]

Then even though she turned you down because it was too soon she starts dating someone else who it's apparently not too soon for. You got angry.

Here's where I'm saying she might have said that just to be sensitive to his feelings, rather than it being The Truth.

Either way, it's a genuine reason to get angry.

In that case she'd be lying to him and essentially judging him incapable of handling his own feelings. Can't say I'll blame someone for getting a bit angry when treated like that.

Of course, not a reason to break off all contact or do even worse things. But definitely reason to get angry.

 

[V TheSystem V]

I've been friend-zoned 4 times, 5 at a stretch (but that was more a mutual agreement).

One of these times was by an ex, who I was best friends with for quite a while afterwards until the aftermath of another relationship she had. I still say hi to her in passing, but there was a phase where I didn't wanna speak to her. Then again, that's usually the case with exes.

One of the people I liked I was friends with for quite some time and tried to help set her up with people. However, haven't talked to her in about 6 months due to some very disagreeable stuff she had been doing (including ditching me and my girlfriend without explanation and lying to us about it for 3 months), and haven't missed her.

I don't like the friend zone as it doesn't give a person any sort of happiness - it just makes them feel like they're not good enough, no matter how hard they have tried. But sometimes it can lead to better things.