Changing Race of an Established Character (Spider-Man)

[blueshark217]

I'm sure there's been a post about this already, but if I posted there my opinion probably won't be heard and I want to say my own two cents about the topic.

So there's a lot of buzz going around about Marvel more or less requiring Spider-Man for their movies, and with that buzz came the discussions of who should be the next person to play him. As a huge fan of Community and Childish Gambino, I'm biased towards Donald Glover. I believe he'd do an amazing job both as a nerdy, shy, and awkward college-age Peter Parker (like how he is as Gambino) and as a sort of cocky but vulnerable Spider-Man (like he was in Community and also as Gambino). According to some people however, there would be a huge problem with that casting choice; he's black, and Peter Parker is supposed to be white.

But does race really matter? In my opinion... yeah, sometimes. But not with Spider-Man

I believe some characters have their race/gender encoded onto their character. For example, Daredevil as he is would only work as a white Irish man because of the setting and his origin story. He's from Hell's Kitchen which is a historically Irish Neighborhood. He's also Catholic, with his white Catholic guilt playing a part in his character. It wouldn't be impossible to make Daredevil a Latino for example, it would just require changing large portions of his character.

That's not the same for Spider-Man. If you were to list the required characteristics of Spider-Man; he's smart and shy as Peter Parker, witty and confident as Spider-Man, from Queens, New York, and with parents who died so he lives with his aunt and uncle. None of that would suddenly not work if Spider-Man was white, black, Asian, etc..


But I want to hear your opinions. Is there some glaring reason that Spider-Man can't be black that I'm missing? Are there other characters who could be any race (or even gender) without changing the character completely? #donald4spiderman or would you prefer someone else? If so who and why?

TL;DR Donald Glover for Spider-Man 2015, doesn't matter that he's black.

 

[Eclipse Dragon]

But I want to hear your opinions. Is there some glaring reason that Spider-Man can't be black that I'm missing? Are there other characters who could be any race (or even gender) without changing the character completely? #donald4spiderman or would you prefer someone else? If so who and why?

Spiderman absolutely can work as a different race and you don't need to change Peter Parker because Miles Morales.

Spoiler

Actually Why the Marvel Movies Should Ditch Peter Parker [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/comicsandcosplay/12971-Why-the-Marvel-Cinematic-Universe-Doesn-t-Need-Peter-Parker]

 

[Asita]

Let me put it to you this way: At the time of casting announcements people objected to the casting of Daniel Radcliff as Harry Potter because unlike the character he was playing he didn't have green eyes. People objected to Toby McGuire as Peter Parker because they felt he didn't look enough like how they envisioned the character. People objected to Daniel Craig as James Bond because he was blond. People objected to Sissy Spacek playing the eponymous Carrie because she was 'too pretty' for the role. People objected to Cillian Murphey playing Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow because he was too young...In many cases it doesn't ultimately matter (indeed many of the preceding are now beloved in those roles), but the point remains that fans are often quite the persnickety bunch who will see even small changes as evidence that the source material that they are fond of is not being properly respected until it is proven otherwise.

 

[Saetha]

*Sigh* I'll say exactly what I said in the official thread for this: You can have the best of both worlds, you know. You can throw a bone to the diversity crowd without upsetting canon purists. You can have white Peter Parker, but Miles Morales being the next Spiderman. Simply make the inevitable sequel focusing on Spidey be about how Parker's retiring and wants to pass the torch to someone new - someone like Morales. Bam, problem solved, everyone's happy.

...And honestly, I disagree with the idea of changing a character's race for the sake of diversity. It smacks of this idea that characters who aren't straight white guys can't stand on their own, and need to steal a "proper" character's name and fame to be valid. It's terrifically insulting.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Why not cast Donald Glover as Miles Morales rather than race-flipping Peter Parker? Cast him as Morales and nobody bats an eye. Cast him as Parker and that nets you a lot of detractors.

 

[madwarper]

With the Ultimate Universe collapsing, and it seems Morales is going to be kept around, why not just add him as another Spidermen? I mean, we have Venom, Carnage, Steel Spider, Iron Spider, Spiderham, etc. Why not just add one more pallet-swapped Spiderman to the mix?

 

[LetalisK]

.....has anyone complained about Aquaman's race change? I haven't seen anyone lose their shit that he's not an Aryan poster child in the upcoming movie and it makes me think Aquaman really is a red headed step child.

 

[FirstNameLastName]

Let me put it to you this way: At the time of casting announcements people objected to the casting of Daniel Radcliff as Harry Potter because unlike the character he was playing he didn't have green eyes. People objected to Toby McGuire as Peter Parker because they felt he didn't look enough like how they envisioned the character. People objected to Daniel Craig as James Bond because he was blond. People objected to Sissy Spacek playing the eponymous Carrie because she was 'too pretty' for the role. People objected to Cillian Murphey playing Jonathan Crane/Scarecrow because he was too young...In many cases it doesn't ultimately matter (indeed many of the preceding are now beloved in those roles), but the point remains that fans are often quite the persnickety bunch who will see even small changes as evidence that the source material that they are fond of is not being properly respected until it is proven otherwise.

To be fair, presenting evidence of previous childish fan objections says exactly nothing about the topic at hand.

But as Eclipse Dragon has already pointed out, we've already had a black Spiderman in the comics.

 

[Silence]

Since half of the superheroes don't seem to be the same person in any case, I say who cares?

 

[Redryhno]

.....has anyone complained about Aquaman's race change? I haven't seen anyone lose their shit that he's no longer an Aryan poster child and it makes me think Aquaman really is a red headed step child.

Some have, but he's had dark hair and a beard before if I'm not mistaken. And Jason Mamoa has been slowly becoming one of the new geek idols in regards to acting since his SGA days, so he's been given a pass for the most part. There were a few people complaining about it around the web, but mostly drowned out by the "THANK GOD, FINALLY" and "WHO IS THIS GUY?" posts.

OT: Peter Parker to me can be done well by Glover as far as I'm concerned(if solely for his fanboyism of the character that makes Cage's Ghost Rider look like somebody just heard of the guy), there's really not many actors I'd be happy of being him. And as much as Miles Morales can be entertaining from time to time, parts of it just seemed too hamfisted in their execution, so I'd be much less likely to go to any Spider-Man movie with him being Spider-Man, no matter if he was played by Donald Glover or not.

 

[Somekindofgold]

I'll say what I always say when this topic is brought up.

Peter Parker is white, he'll always be white. Comic book writers should make new characters instead of changing old ones if they want a more diverse cast. Changing current characters reeks of attempting to stir up controversy and it just feels lazy.

And this isnt like changing a bit character like Heimdall (which I didnt like as well but at least they got Idris Elba to play him), Peter Parker is probably one of the most iconic characters in comics. You dont mess with characters that important, you just dont. I dont know who this Donald Glover guy is, but he shouldnt play Peter, it would be like having a white guy play Kublai Khan in that new Marco Polo show. There are just some things you shouldnt change.

 

[mecegirl]

I dont know who this Donald Glover guy is, but he shouldnt play Peter, it would be like having a white guy play Kublai Khan in that new Marco Polo show. There are just some things you shouldnt change.

No, no it's not. Kublai Kahn was a real person. Not that that's stopped whitewashing or yellow faceing of Asian roles before, but I digress. It is not the same because Peter Parker is a fictional character that doesn't have a backstory centered around his race. There is nothing about where he grew up, his personalty, his powers, or his interests that precludes him from being any race.

Once could say that Magneto shouldn't have his race changed and most would agree with you because his race, his heritage, is integral to his back story. He is who he is because of the persecution that he has faced. Black Panther shouldn't have his race changed because Wakanda, as a separatist and isolated nation, makes no sense with a king that isn't black. There's a force field surrounding the city in some versions. No one could just get into Wakanda. Its not like Tarzan.

Anyway Donald Glover is an actor, comedian, and rapper. He talks about the response to the push for him to play Peter in this video. It goes on about Spiderman till about 3:45 after that the topic changes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lgko-xReFSs
And some folks have made gifs of some of this interview

Spoiler

 

[Somekindofgold]

I dont know who this Donald Glover guy is, but he shouldnt play Peter, it would be like having a white guy play Kublai Khan in that new Marco Polo show. There are just some things you shouldnt change.

No, no it's not. Kublai Kahn was a real person. Not that that's stopped whitewashing or yellow faceing of Asian roles before, but I digress. It is not the same because Peter Parker is a fictional character that doesn't have a backstory centered around his race. There is nothing about where he grew up, his personalty, his powers, or his interests that precludes him from being any race.

Once could say that Magneto shouldn't have his race changed and most would agree with you because his race, his heritage, is integral to his back story. He is who he is because of the persecution that he has faced. Black Panther shouldn't have his race changed because Wakanda, as a separatist and isolated nation, makes no sense with a king that isn't black. There's a force field surrounding the city in some versions. No one could just get into Wakanda.

Alright maybe Kublai Khan was a bad example but I still believe that a characters race shouldnt be changed if it is already established because like it or not it IS lazy, its riding off the success of a previous character because writers cant be assed to think of a new character.

Besides what good will changing Peter into a black kid do? will it help combat the real issues of racism in our world? no, it will give the people fighting for this change a warm fuzzy feeling while others feel insulted over the fact that people believe the only way for a minority character to be successful is to steal a white superhero.

To use a comic example, when Falcon became Captain America I didnt bat an eye because it was a new guy taking up the mantle, and while you can argue Steve> Samuel it wasnt changing Steve. Changing Peter Parker into a black guy? No. You want a black spiderman? go enjoy Miles Morales, leave Peter alone.

 

[mecegirl]

Alright maybe Kublai Khan was a bad example but I still believe that a characters race shouldnt be changed if it is already established because like it or not it IS lazy, its riding off the success of a previous character because writers cant be assed to think of a new character.

To use a comic example, when Falcon became Captain America I didnt bat an eye because it wasnt changing Steve, it was a new guy taking up the mantle and while you can argue Steve> Samuel it wasnt changing Steve. Changing Peter Parker into a black guy? You want a black spiderman? go enjoy Miles Morales, leave Peter alone.

No maybe, Kublai Kahn is a bad example, full stop.

They think up new characters all the time they just don't always sell well. Established characters who are racial minorities don't always sell well either. Just look at the sales for the current Storm ongoing. If Storm, the most well known black female superhero there is, can't rise in the charts what chance does some new character have? They put Sam in the Captain's suit for a reason. By himself his book would petter out eventually. That's how comics are. Considering that comic book sales rarely get to even 200,000 issues sold now days I don't see why anyone should cater to such a small audience in exclusion of everyone else. So lazy or not money is money.

Most people have no issue with enjoying both. It is a movie, thus it is an alternate universe, so many more important details have been changed in the MCU. I mean...fucking Janet Van Dyne, the original Wasp. One of the founders of the avengers and the person who came up with the teams name in the comics is dead in the movie verse. She's likely to get a passing mention in the Antman movie(featuring the second Antman and lets not get started on giving Stark the credit for Ultron instead of Antman). But a possible race change is supposed to bother purists?

You say leave Peter alone as if a race change would alter something significant. We've seen a successful re imagining of a previously white character with Ultimate Nick Fury. Its not like it hasn't been done with positive results. No one can give a good reason why Peter has to be white. Nothing would change about Peter's personalty or circumstances if he were not white. It would not cause glaring inconsistencies with his story line. And while he is in costume no one can see his skin anyway. Literally nothing would change. It is your prerogative to dislike a possible race swap but your argument boils down to "I don't like it so it shouldn't be done." And that's not gonna convince anyone who is open to a race swap. Not that I'm trying to convince you to like the idea of a race swap, its just that in this case there isn't any story or fact based arguments against a race swap. Literally all anyone can say is that they don't like the idea of a race swap.

 

[Somekindofgold]

Alright maybe Kublai Khan was a bad example but I still believe that a characters race shouldnt be changed if it is already established because like it or not it IS lazy, its riding off the success of a previous character because writers cant be assed to think of a new character.

To use a comic example, when Falcon became Captain America I didnt bat an eye because it wasnt changing Steve, it was a new guy taking up the mantle and while you can argue Steve> Samuel it wasnt changing Steve. Changing Peter Parker into a black guy? You want a black spiderman? go enjoy Miles Morales, leave Peter alone.

No maybe, Kublai Kahn is a bad example, full stop.

They think up new characters all the time they just don't always sell well. Established characters who are racial minorities don't always sell well either. Just look at the sales for the current Storm ongoing. If Storm, the most well known black female superhero there is, can't rise in the charts what chance does some new character have? They put Sam in the Captain's suit for a reason. By himself his book would petter out eventually. That's how comics are. Considering that comic book sales rarely get to even 200,000 issues sold now days I don't see why anyone should cater to such a small audience in exclusion of everyone else. So lazy or not money is money.

Most people have no issue with enjoying both. It is a movie, thus it is an alternate universe, so many more important details have been changed in the MCU. I mean...fucking Janet Van Dyne, the original Wasp. One of the founders of the avengers and the person who came up with the teams name in the comics is dead in the movie verse. She's likely to get a passing mention in the Antman movie(featuring the second Antman). But a possible race change is supposed to bother purists?

You say leave Peter alone as if a race change would alter something significant. We've seen a successful re imagining of a previously white character with Ultimate Nick Fury. Its not like it hasn't been done with positive results. No one can give a good reason why Peter has to be white. Nothing would change about Peter's personalty or circumstances if he were not white. It would not cause glaring inconsistencies with his story line. And while he is in costume no one can see his skin anyway. Literally nothing would change. It is your prerogative to dislike a possible race swap but your argument boils down to "I don't like it so it shouldn't be done." And that's not gonna convince anyone who is open to a race swap.

Comics in general have poor sales yes, thats why we get all the shitty events constantly shoved down our throats, and its also why characters are race changed, because it generates controversy. I'm not going to argue that in the short term changes like this will earn them some cash, but in the long run it just alienates a portion of your fanbase while hoping that these changes will draw in new customers, and while the idea mightnt bother you it pisses me the hell off.

Comics are getting stagnant, and race changing established characters is not the answer. They need new characters, new blood, and the reason a lot of the new books fail is because they're not given the attention they deserve, and instead we get god damn battleworld or whatever bullshit they're trying to throw at us now.

So no, my argument isnt 'I dont like it so it shouldn't be done', my argument is 'race changing is lazy and unimaginative (yes it was the same with Nick Fury who only succeeded because they got Samuel L Jackson to play him)'.

I'm sorry that I still expect more from Marvel.

 

[Armadox]

I'll play you one farther and say that they should introduce Peter Parker and Miles Morales, as well as Miguel O'Hara. Then you have three spider-men of different races, all easily canon, and could play up their spider-man movie to run a "spider-man through time" arc, so you can show off a lot without having it interfere with each other.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

I'll play you one farther and say that they should introduce Peter Parker and Miles Morales, as well as Miguel O'Hara. Then you have three spider-men of different races, all easily canon, and could play up their spider-man movie to run a "spider-man through time" arc, so you can show off a lot without having it interfere with each other.

Good, now we just need an Asian Spider-Man and the tetralogy of political correctness shall be complete.

 

[Armadox]

I'll play you one farther and say that they should introduce Peter Parker and Miles Morales, as well as Miguel O'Hara. Then you have three spider-men of different races, all easily canon, and could play up their spider-man movie to run a "spider-man through time" arc, so you can show off a lot without having it interfere with each other.

Good, now we just need an Asian Spider-Man and the tetralogy of political correctness shall be complete.

Thanks to the whole latest Spider-verse arc and crossover, Takuya Yamashiro is also canon. So there, Japanese Spider-man with giant mecha.