Character Development is a "thing" and I hate it.

[CODE-D]

Character Development is a thing now. Course its always been a thing but not as announced as it has been of late such as people saying "this show is so great/better than (insert show) for it has character development". That to me is like hearing from 80s ads saying "this game is great it has graphics". Sure character development is good and needed (sometimes) but it should never be the focus of something or be the reason something is good. If characters are constantly constantly changing their views based on change in circumstances(especially similar) it seems they have lost all resolve and are fickle. Now Im not talking about differentiation like a character being cool with something but then not because of how its done and says it should be done a better way, thats cool. Im talking about if it is repeated so often it loses merit and meaning(as a defining moment/change) until we end up saying we get it, we get it.....we know your views get on with the story.

The other kind of character development I am even less tolerant of the more there is, especially if it is unnecessary/uninteresting and that is a characters background and why they are the way they are. In real life, someone would usually explain to you why this is there view(and its usually a relevant and important one) and thats that but most of the time real people have a resolve and dont really feel they need a reason they just do, some introspective of why is good but as a focus its boring. But in media you have the ability to express these with flashbacks, origin stories, preguel etc.....However it doesnt mean you should spend a load of time on it. One chapter if a book and half an episode if a show is enough.




In short, character development should not be a thing of focus but extra(and suddle, not announced). Especially one that makes a show good or an excuse of why a show is good.
More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance. Characters can change but constant/unneeded change can be worse than none. If characters are changing for plot reasons then that is a big fail in character establishment, which I find more important.


In shorter short
character establishment > development
or
Is > why/how

 

[sir.rutthed]

More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance.

Those are all part of character development. You sound like someone whose never really experienced good character development in a game, or someone who just wants other things in their games. If you're the former, pick up Knights of the Old Republic; it has some of the best, most fully developed characters you'll ever see in a game. Don't like it? Want something newer? Pick up Dragon Age Origins/Dragon Age 2. Both have stellar characters, and I actually like those in the squeal better. If you're the later, I can't help you. Take it from me, character development can be a wonderful thing. I wish there was a game that just focused on making a fully fleshed out character in a fully fleshed out world. Someone's motives and reasoning can be a huge part of why they're interesting so it shouldn't just be ignored.

 

[manaman]

I am going to say you, possible the people you discuss things with as well, have a poor understanding of what character development is. Character development is not redefining the character, but defining the character. It's developing the character.

Characters are central to the story and having well defined, understandable characters in the story is extremely important.

.
More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance.

What's funny about this post (aside from "suddle," It's subtle), is that this right here is character development.

 

[StarsintheBlood]

Characters are what I love about a story. The characters make me care, make me laugh. A good story idea isn't great unless the protagonist or supporting cast are fun and interesting. But that's just my humble opinion.

I just think that a world should affect the hero, the same way the hero affects the world throughout the adventure. Otherwise it's not an adventure at all- just a string of events. Character is necessary, just like plot. For a great story, they both should be present. Yeah, you can have good stories that lean to one or the other, but the way to make them spectacular is to have them combine into one great narrative.

 

[CODE-D]

Those are all part of character development.

I disagree and wouldnt lump them under "development", I see development more as change/addition of what already is and referring to backgrounds its also addition.

I wish there was a game that just focused on making a fully fleshed out character in a fully fleshed out world. Someone's motives and reasoning can be a huge part of why they're interesting so it shouldn't just be ignored.

No no no no no
less focus
less focus
characters need to be fleshed out before hand and have just enough motive/reasoning for us to understand or to immerse us and not bore us. And it should be dependent on characters importance.
the world not so much, it is what it is(magical, cyberpunk), like ours and should be explored steadily like a stream and not spend forever explaining/exploring why its like this.

 

[CODE-D]

Characters are what I love about a story. The characters make me care, make me laugh. A good story idea isn't great unless the protagonist or supporting cast are fun and interesting. But that's just my humble opinion.

I just think that a world should affect the hero, the same way the hero affects the world throughout the adventure. Otherwise it's not an adventure at all- just a string of events. Character is necessary, just like plot. For a great story, they both should be present. Yeah, you can have good stories that lean to one or the other, but the way to make them spectacular is to have them combine into one great narrative.

I said they should be fun interesting but you shouldnt take forever explaining to us why this is so. Learning about our characters through what they do/conversation with others is better.

 

[CODE-D]

I am going to say you, possible the people you discuss things with as well, have a poor understanding of what character development is. Character development is not redefining the character, but defining the character. It's developing the character.

Characters are central to the story and having well defined, understandable characters in the story is extremely important.

.
More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance.

What's funny about this post (aside from "suddle," It's subtle), is that this right here is character development.

I was going under this definition
The process of developing or being developed.
A specified state of growth or advancement.

which is to me telling/showing us why a character is/becoming this way, which is fine as long as we are not beaten over the head with it.

I wasnt referring to redefining.

 

[Asita]

Hate to tell you this, but you're relying on a strawman argument, whether you realize it or not. Character development is not about characters 'constantly changing their views' but instead about making compelling characters in general. The very 'character establishment' you refer to is a crucial part of the very concept you're complaining about.

Now, does character development entail a given character changing their perspective over the course of a storyline? Often, yes. But changes like that aren't tossed out like beads at Mardi-Gras, often even a subtle change in a character's personality will develop over the course of a story arc. This can be anything from a shift in their goals (See Ed and Al's philosophy on the use of a Philosopher's Stone over the course of FMA), to the fall of a protagonist to darkness (See Macbeth in...well, Macbeth), learning from past mistakes (Compare Altair at the start of Assassin's Creed to Altair at the end of the same game, or Desmond's attitude at the start of AC to that later in the series), or even reaffirming who they are (Personally I rather like the Finale of Justice League wherein Superman was visibly ready to kill Luthor and refused to do so, which worked because he'd been constantly compared to an Alternate Universe Superman who did).

At its core, character development is simply about making good characters, and most good stories have it to one degree or another. Not all stories use character development well, mind you, but that's the fault of clumsy writing rather than a flaw with the concept itself.

 

[Grygor]

More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance.

Those are all part of character development.

I disagree and wouldnt lump them under "development", I see development more as change/addition of what already is and referring to backgrounds its also addition.

You "disagree"? You're not allowed to disagree with the definition of a phrase. Writers and people who talk about writing have been using the term "character development" to refer to what you keep insisting it is not since well before you were born.

You do not get to tell an existing community of people that they are using their own jargon incorrectly. If you go around saying "X is bad and here's why", and people respond "that's not really what X is", when you answer back with "I disagree, X is what I say it is and it's bad", all you do is make yourself look foolish.

 

[CODE-D]

More important is character establishment, dialogue, personalities(that can reference characters past but not a focus), plot and plot relevance.

Those are all part of character development.

I disagree and wouldnt lump them under "development", I see development more as change/addition of what already is and referring to backgrounds its also addition.

You "disagree"? You're not allowed to disagree with the definition of a phrase. Writers and people who talk about writing have been using the term "character development" to refer to what you keep insisting it is not since well before you were born.

You do not get to tell an existing community of people that they are using their own jargon incorrectly. If you go around saying "X is bad and here's why", and people respond "that's not really what X is", when you answer back with "I disagree, X is what I say it is and it's bad", all you do is make yourself look foolish.

Words mean differently to different people..sorry?
but you miss my point and just wanna argue...fine I guess
didnt say development was bad in the first but should be relevant and too much can be wrong especially if we already know a characters established feelings.

 

[Dandark]

Sick of unnesessary character development? You just tried to watch Bleach or Naruto didn't you?

 

[CODE-D]

Sick of unnesessary character development? You just tried to watch Bleach or Naruto didn't you?

Bleach is the worst with it....complete revisits to ichigos resolve and why he does what he does...flashbacks during battle about why a character is there/why he is doing what he is doing.....so yeah that had a hand.

But thread mostly brought about by people saying "this has character development thats why its good" and talking down other shows for not having it.

 

[Mr.Squishy]

Jesus on a stick, people, we're dealing with EtherealNothingness 2.0 here.
OT: OP, you sound mildly put unconvincing, and worst-case completely batfuck insane. And your mind seems to be made up, as well, so the discussion I'd potentially bringing to the thred is going to do no good, so why bother?

 

[CODE-D]

Jesus on a stick, people, we're dealing with EtherealNothingness 2.0 here.
OT: OP, you sound mildly put unconvincing, and worst-case completely batfuck insane. And your mind seems to be made up, as well, so the discussion I'd potentially bringing to the thred is going to do no good, so why bother?

Because if you dont your character wont be developed....or thats what I hear.

 

[CommanderL]

Jesus on a stick, people, we're dealing with EtherealNothingness 2.0 here.
OT: OP, you sound mildly put unconvincing, and worst-case completely batfuck insane. And your mind seems to be made up, as well, so the discussion I'd potentially bringing to the thred is going to do no good, so why bother?

ahhh enternalnothingness i was wondering who this guy reminded me off charcter development is good if nothing changes or develops its boring

 

[Hipster Chick]

Character development is a "thing" because a) static characters are boring in the long run and b) nobody in the real world stays static, especially not in dramatic situations portrayed in most popular media.

What about this Dramatic Theory 094 do you not understand, OP?

 

[Mushroom 118i]

Jesus on a stick, people, we're dealing with EtherealNothingness 2.0 here.
OT: OP, you sound mildly put unconvincing, and worst-case completely batfuck insane. And your mind seems to be made up, as well, so the discussion I'd potentially bringing to the thred is going to do no good, so why bother?

Because if you dont your character wont be developed....or thats what I hear.

No, a character won't be developed if they don't have all the other stuff you mentioned, all of the parts you said were good. A character that sticks to their guns can be a just as well developed character than one whose motives and opinions shift.

As everyone is pointing out, you're muddling definitions. When people say "This show is great because it has character development", they mean it has well developed characters, not just cookie cutter stereotypes or tropes. This is not the same as characters have to 'develop' by shifting their goals or opinions.

If that character changes over the course of the show, and does it believably, then great! If they never change, but this stoicness is a believable part of who they have been developed to be, then that's great too! Both can be signs of well developed character.

In fact, if a character is changing opinions and motives at an uncomfortable rate, then most people would say that character is poorly developed, rather than these changes being great character development.

 

[CODE-D]

Character development is a "thing" because a) static characters are boring in the long run and b) nobody in the real world stays static, especially not in dramatic situations portrayed in most popular media.

What about this Dramatic Theory 094 do you not understand, OP?

I meant as "thing" people say to say a series is good/bad, especially when recommending/dissing a series.
Of course its a thing, but now its like a saying.

 

[xyrafhoan]

Character development is the main reason why any story holds up. Humans do not cling to a single personality type through their whole lives. We learn from our mistakes and our success and our perspectives change as the world around us changes. If a character stayed the same through the whole story, how could we be interested in them? Even silent heroes like Link from Zelda go through some development. OoT Link goes from being a lonely, bullied kid to being a brave hero. Wind Waker Link goes from being an shy boy from a small village to a brave warrior of destiny, willing to jump into harm's way for the sake of others.

And for the record, inconsistent decisions and opinions made by a character would be *bad* character development. True character development tends to be much more nuanced over the course of time, accompanied by a character's life changing events.

 

[Hipster Chick]

Quality of character development is a benchmark by which to assess the quality of a medium's writing/plotting/etc.