On the other hand, I think that video games (when parent supervision is present) could potentially be a way for children to work through the experience of some negative emotions (like frustration and anger, for instance) in a controlled environment.Mark J Kline said:Children and Gaming
Skyrim may not be appropriate for three year-olds.
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The rest of your post was very well thought out, but I wanted to comment on this part, because it's always seemed to be the other way for me. It always seems that, while violence causes middling outrage (except for occasionally outbursts; think Manhunt 2), sex causes immediate, violent outrage. The idea outrages people so much it doesn't even need to always actually be there, think Hot Coffee and the Fox Mass Effect fiasco.Dastardly said:(Really, I still firmly believe that overly-sexual entertainment is a far bigger problem. Sex is far easier and more open for kids to imitate than violence. It's not usually illegal. It's enjoyable to both sides. It's easier to find willing partners. And it's in everything. Seriously, kids imitating sex acts are a way bigger problem than kids imitating violence... why does that not get the same amount of attention? HINT: It's because we, as adults, really like our sex, and we don't want to have to hide it in the post-9pm time of day anymore.)
That Doom argument comes up rather frequently in discussions about this, and to be honest, I think it's invalid. Yes we all played Doom as kids and we turned out fine, right? But games are way more realistic now. The pixel art in Doom is very different to the HD graphics of Skryim. You're right, though, if a parent is there and explains that it isn't real and can tell that the child understands that, it should be fine.Irridium said:I myself was exposed to violent games as a kid. It was DOOM, and I was about 4. Though for me, I didn't care so much about the game or what I was shooting/seeing. The reason I loved playing it is because it allowed me to spend time with my dad. That game was just the best way for us to spend time together. He'd work hard, long days and come home and not have much energy, so yeah, that's where DOOM came in. Let us spend time together and have fun.
He did sit me down and lecture me about violence and all that though. Did the same thing after I started watching (and loving) the Three Stooges.
I think that if the parents are there to help the kid understand, the kid will turn out fine. But I can get behind keeping kids away from the more violent stuff. Honestly, it all depends on the kid and the parents. Situations may vary and all that.
I'm not sure realism is so important. The game I'm thinking of was more recent; it's ugly as hell by today's standards but still reasonably realistic, but I'm no more shell-shocked than Doom players. I agree that realism definitely has some impact, but not so much when it comes to how much something can disturb people. The copy and paste ghost stories from the scary thread have no visual realism at all, but still leave us stuck to our screens rather than risk the darkness to reach the light switch. To use myself again - the thing that gave me can't-sleep, refuse-to-go-upstairs-alone-fear? War of the Worlds, the CD version.SL33TBL1ND said:That Doom argument comes up rather frequently in discussions about this, and to be honest, I think it's invalid. Yes we all played Doom as kids and we turned out fine, right? But games are way more realistic now. The pixel art in Doom is very different to the HD graphics of Skryim. You're right, though, if a parent is there and explains that it isn't real and can tell that the child understands that, it should be fine.
I love this post. I played Doom at an early age too (even if it wasnt as early as 4...), and the horror and violence of it was extremely fascinating to me. Fast forward today, and I've never been in a fight, and I abhor violence (in real life). Video game violence is still all fun and games to me.Irridium said:I myself was exposed to violent games as a kid. It was DOOM, and I was about 4. Though for me, I didn't care so much about the game or what I was shooting/seeing. The reason I loved playing it is because it allowed me to spend time with my dad. That game was just the best way for us to spend time together. He'd work hard, long days and come home and not have much energy, so yeah, that's where DOOM came in. Let us spend time together and have fun.
He did sit me down and lecture me about violence and all that though. Did the same thing after I started watching (and loving) the Three Stooges.
I think that if the parents are there to help the kid understand, the kid will turn out fine. But I can get behind keeping kids away from the more violent stuff. Honestly, it all depends on the kid and the parents. Situations may vary and all that.
When it is pornographically sexual, yes. But listen to any song on mainstream radio. What happened to innuendo anymore? There's no subtlety or sly sexual references anymore. It's just flat out sex-sex-sex. And when it's not sex, it's pre-sex.Avatar Roku said:The rest of your post was very well thought out, but I wanted to comment on this part, because it's always seemed to be the other way for me. It always seems that, while violence causes middling outrage (except for occasionally outbursts; think Manhunt 2), sex causes immediate, violent outrage. The idea outrages people so much it doesn't even need to always actually be there, think Hot Coffee and the Fox Mass Effect fiasco.
And that's where you dropped the ball. "Ugly as hell by today's standards" is not what I'm talking about. Ugly as hell is not a problem, it's easy to tell the difference between it and reality. But today's video games are very realistic, this has been said about games in the past, sure. But come on, we are pretty damn close to photo-realism now. They are very good looking, so it would be difficult for a child of 3 to tell the difference.LordFisheh said:I'm not sure realism is so important. The game I'm thinking of was more recent; it's ugly as hell by today's standards but still reasonably realisticSL33TBL1ND said:That Doom argument comes up rather frequently in discussions about this, and to be honest, I think it's invalid. Yes we all played Doom as kids and we turned out fine, right? But games are way more realistic now. The pixel art in Doom is very different to the HD graphics of Skryim. You're right, though, if a parent is there and explains that it isn't real and can tell that the child understands that, it should be fine.
Back then DOOM was the most realistic-looking game I've ever seen. First time I saw it I thought it was some sort of movie.SL33TBL1ND said:That Doom argument comes up rather frequently in discussions about this, and to be honest, I think it's invalid. Yes we all played Doom as kids and we turned out fine, right? But games are way more realistic now. The pixel art in Doom is very different to the HD graphics of Skryim. You're right, though, if a parent is there and explains that it isn't real and can tell that the child understands that, it should be fine.Irridium said:I myself was exposed to violent games as a kid. It was DOOM, and I was about 4. Though for me, I didn't care so much about the game or what I was shooting/seeing. The reason I loved playing it is because it allowed me to spend time with my dad. That game was just the best way for us to spend time together. He'd work hard, long days and come home and not have much energy, so yeah, that's where DOOM came in. Let us spend time together and have fun.
He did sit me down and lecture me about violence and all that though. Did the same thing after I started watching (and loving) the Three Stooges.
I think that if the parents are there to help the kid understand, the kid will turn out fine. But I can get behind keeping kids away from the more violent stuff. Honestly, it all depends on the kid and the parents. Situations may vary and all that.
Ok, that makes a LOT more sense. I suppose I kinda missed your point the first time.Dastardly said:When it is pornographically sexual, yes. But listen to any song on mainstream radio. What happened to innuendo anymore? There's no subtlety or sly sexual references anymore. It's just flat out sex-sex-sex. And when it's not sex, it's pre-sex.Avatar Roku said:The rest of your post was very well thought out, but I wanted to comment on this part, because it's always seemed to be the other way for me. It always seems that, while violence causes middling outrage (except for occasionally outbursts; think Manhunt 2), sex causes immediate, violent outrage. The idea outrages people so much it doesn't even need to always actually be there, think Hot Coffee and the Fox Mass Effect fiasco.
Why do we do it? Because sex sells. To adults. But billboards and commercials and the internet don't have "after hours." So the kids are bombarded by it. Now, I'm no idiot--kids are naturally, as humans, curious about sex. But holy hell, that doesn't mean we have to feed that with adult food. We bombard them with misinformation faster than we can get them good information, and wonder why all our fourth graders know what blowjobs are.
It's just my personal axe to grind, I know. I see adults that want a product, and they want that product hot-fast-now, and they don't seem to care that it's leaking into everything else. There's no consideration for the long-term side effects of sexualizing everything around our kids.
Look at Disney's child-grinding-machine. It's not enough that Hannah Montana is a talented young singer, she's not "famous" and "loved" until she dresses up, puts on make-up, and gets all "pretty." You teach a young girl so early to trade on her looks, and then she becomes an adult... where being "pretty" ain't enough to set you apart, so "pretty" has to graduate to "sexy" in order to feed that attention addiction we've created in her.
I work with kids every day who are right in the "collateral damage zone" for all this broad sexual marketing. If you were to ask me which is more destructive, especially to middle- and high-school girls (the way they "learn" to act, and the way the boys "learn" to treat them), it's too much sex in entertainment, not violence.
And when we discovered fire it was the most technologically advanced thing we'd ever seen. Do we count it as that now? Of course not. There's a difference between pixel art and HD graphics. It doesn't matter if something was the most realistic of its time if it wasn't actually realistic. One of those things is relative, the other is not.Irridium said:Back then DOOM was the most realistic-looking game I've ever seen. First time I saw it I thought it was some sort of movie.SL33TBL1ND said:That Doom argument comes up rather frequently in discussions about this, and to be honest, I think it's invalid. Yes we all played Doom as kids and we turned out fine, right? But games are way more realistic now. The pixel art in Doom is very different to the HD graphics of Skryim. You're right, though, if a parent is there and explains that it isn't real and can tell that the child understands that, it should be fine.Irridium said:I myself was exposed to violent games as a kid. It was DOOM, and I was about 4. Though for me, I didn't care so much about the game or what I was shooting/seeing. The reason I loved playing it is because it allowed me to spend time with my dad. That game was just the best way for us to spend time together. He'd work hard, long days and come home and not have much energy, so yeah, that's where DOOM came in. Let us spend time together and have fun.
He did sit me down and lecture me about violence and all that though. Did the same thing after I started watching (and loving) the Three Stooges.
I think that if the parents are there to help the kid understand, the kid will turn out fine. But I can get behind keeping kids away from the more violent stuff. Honestly, it all depends on the kid and the parents. Situations may vary and all that.