Civilization VI New Ideas for Civs and Leaders.

Rangaman

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For those who haven't heard, around eight hours ago it was announced by 2K that Teddy Roosevelt will lead the Americans in Civilization VI. This got me thinking: What civilizations/leaders should be added?

Now, for me, the Colonialist Legacies modpack for Civilization V is a good start, as it adds 23 Civs (it says 24, but there are two Australias for some reason) and most of those I would want to see in the new game, plus a few extras like New Zealand and the Kingdom of Italy. Although some seem a bit too overpowered in this modpack.

Unlikely as it is, I think it would also be cool to see multiple leaders return.

I definitely think we should see Queen Victoria, Charles de Gaulle and Diocletian Caesar, for a start

What do you guys think?

PS: Links to the Colonialist Legacies pages if you're interested:
Steam Community Page-https://steamcommunity.com/workshop/filedetails/?id=226864271
Civ Forums Page-http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=512802
 

Breakdown

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I'd like to see completely customised civilisations, instead of preset ones. You pick your leadership traits, and then make decisions which helps shape how your civilisation develops. The environment around your city could also help shape the appearance of your people and culture.
 

Recusant

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Rangaman said:
Unlikely as it is, I think it would also be cool to see multiple leaders return.
What makes you think it's unlikely? Adding in different leaders would add a great deal of variability (okay, you'd need to bring back leader traits first) to the game; granted, it might be hard to balance, but Civ 5 showed us that Firaxis doesn't consider that as important as they used to.

It could also help differentiate separate incarnations of the same Civ; the differences between Achaemenid and Sassanid Persia, while notable, wouldn't be huge; that's not the case between ancient and modern Israel.
 

SlumlordThanatos

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Breakdown said:
I'd like to see completely customised civilisations, instead of preset ones. You pick your leadership traits, and then make decisions which helps shape how your civilisation develops. The environment around your city could also help shape the appearance of your people and culture.
I'm sure the first thing some Internet troll would do with this is make ISIS or some other terrorist group.

Hell, I'd do it for the lulz, and I don't even play Civ.
 

Chessrook44

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Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
 

meiam

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Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Hum and who exactly would a female egyptian leader be...

I think most of the obvious civ/leader have been done before, then you're just left with random character that 99% of people don't know and most will just go "who?".

Customizable or even just going back to multiple leader would be rather nice, but that seems like a lot of work, I doubt they want to do multiple leader screen for the same civ.
 

Rastrelly

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Meiam said:
Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Hum and who exactly would a female egyptian leader be...

I think most of the obvious civ/leader have been done before, then you're just left with random character that 99% of people don't know and most will just go "who?".

Customizable or even just going back to multiple leader would be rather nice, but that seems like a lot of work, I doubt they want to do multiple leader screen for the same civ.
IIRC there are six candidates in history of Ancient Egypt.

Also, ditching the multi-leader system in favour of stupid fillbody screens was among the top 10 dumb decisions Civ V devs made.
 

Bobular

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Meiam said:
I think most of the obvious civ/leader have been done before, then you're just left with random character that 99% of people don't know and most will just go "who?".
I think that could be a good thing, get people to look up who these unknown leaders are and see their cool accomplishments. It'll also brake the monotony, I can only be at war with Gandhi for so long before it becomes dull.
 

Sonmi

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I'd suggest an unorthodox pick for France: Maximilien Robespierre.

He'd represent the concept of French republicanism considerably better, and along with Napoleon, Louis XVI, Joan of Arc, and De Gaulle (who have all already been represented in Civ), he's probably one of the most recognizable figures in French history, essentially heading the country during what was probably its most influential period.

It would also be interesting to have a new unhinged madman to contend with, albeit one of a completely ideological nature.

Meiam said:
Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Hum and who exactly would a female egyptian leader be...
Hatshepsut? That would be a far better pick than Ptolemaic Cleopatra, who barely qualifies as either a great leader, and arguably an Egyptian as well.

EDIT: I'd love to see Garibaldi for the Italians, but then we'd possibly be stuck with three Italian civs if Rome and Venice come back, which would kind of feel like overkill.
 

Recusant

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Bobular said:
Meiam said:
I think most of the obvious civ/leader have been done before, then you're just left with random character that 99% of people don't know and most will just go "who?".
I think that could be a good thing, get people to look up who these unknown leaders are and see their cool accomplishments. It'll also brake the monotony, I can only be at war with Gandhi for so long before it becomes dull.
You beat me to it. What's so bad about a figure gamers won't have heard about before? I've mostly migrated over to the Paradox side of the pasture, so far as semi-historical strategy is concerned, and I can't tell you how many times I've found myself wondering something like "why is this dynasty's coat of arms a ferret wearing a cape?" or "why is there a Jewish kingdom in seventh-century Georgia?", and how many things I've looked up and learned since then. Hell, you could even put some basic information into the Civilopedia on the new people, kingdoms, and ideas.

Let's not kid ourselves here: we're a bunch of great big nerds, living in one of the few times in living memory that that wasn't a social liability, playing a game on a machine that (usually) permanently connected to the greatest information network in human history. This won't last forever; let's revel in it while we have the chance.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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SlumlordThanatos said:
I'm sure the first thing some Internet troll would do with this is make ISIS or some other terrorist group.

Hell, I'd do it for the lulz, and I don't even play Civ.
When in doubt, Nazi's. Nazi's as far as the eye can see. Paradox had to ax a Stellaris mod from Steam because it was pushing Nazi Neo Nazi white supremist a totally-innocent-preference-that-super-future-humanity-is-totally-100%-white.
 

DEAD34345

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Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Cleopatra is probably always going to be the leader of Egypt in civ. She's the most well known Egyptian leader I think, and she's one of the relatively few women available for them to use. Did Quill18 mention who the leader of China was? I'm hoping it'll be Wu Zetian again, and if he referred to China as "her" as well it'd have to be her.

altnameJag said:
SlumlordThanatos said:
I'm sure the first thing some Internet troll would do with this is make ISIS or some other terrorist group.

Hell, I'd do it for the lulz, and I don't even play Civ.
When in doubt, Nazi's. Nazi's as far as the eye can see. Paradox had to ax a Stellaris mod from Steam because it was pushing Nazi Neo Nazi white supremist a totally-innocent-preference-that-super-future-humanity-is-totally-100%-white.
I heard about that but I'm still not sure about the details. Was that mod legitimately promoting Nazism or was it just a silly thing designed to let you play as space Nazis under space Hitler? If the latter (which is what I would have thought), it seems more than a little hypocritical. The game itself has a whole suite of options for purging or enslaving populations on the basis of their genetics or political leanings, after all.
 

Recusant

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Lunncal said:
Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Cleopatra is probably always going to be the leader of Egypt in civ. She's the most well known Egyptian leader I think, and she's one of the relatively few women available for them to use. Did Quill18 mention who the leader of China was? I'm hoping it'll be Wu Zetian again, and if he referred to China as "her" as well it'd have to be her.
You have a funny definition of "always"; Cleopatra was the Egyptian leader in 3, and an option in 2, but that's two games out of five; by comparison, Ramesses was the (sole or optional) ruler in 4 of the 5; the default is definitely him. And seeing as Cleopatra wasn't even Egyptian, she makes very little sense as a choice, popular opinion notwithstanding. If it's a woman you want for Egypt, Hatshepsut isn't the only choice, but she's by far the best.

And I am pleased to report (though I imagine you won't feel the same way) that it won't be Wu Zeitan for China; they're going back to Qin Shi Huang, according to Gamerevolution and Gamecrate.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Lunncal said:
altnameJag said:
SlumlordThanatos said:
I'm sure the first thing some Internet troll would do with this is make ISIS or some other terrorist group.

Hell, I'd do it for the lulz, and I don't even play Civ.
When in doubt, Nazi's. Nazi's as far as the eye can see. Paradox had to ax a Stellaris mod from Steam because it was pushing Nazi Neo Nazi white supremist a totally-innocent-preference-that-super-future-humanity-is-totally-100%-white.
I heard about that but I'm still not sure about the details. Was that mod legitimately promoting Nazism or was it just a silly thing designed to let you play as space Nazis under space Hitler? If the latter (which is what I would have thought), it seems more than a little hypocritical. The game itself has a whole suite of options for purging or enslaving populations on the basis of their genetics or political leanings, after all.
If you've got a way to distinguish Ironic Racism from regular racism, I'd love to hear it.

That said, yeah, Stellaris has options that lets you create holocaust level war crimes, and Paradox still thought this mod was going too far to be on Steam, so there's your answer. I figure they're just defending their game's artistic integrity.
 

Rangaman

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Lunncal said:
Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Cleopatra is probably always going to be the leader of Egypt in civ. She's the most well known Egyptian leader I think, and she's one of the relatively few women available for them to use. Did Quill18 mention who the leader of China was? I'm hoping it'll be Wu Zetian again, and if he referred to China as "her" as well it'd have to be her.
I hope not, because she basically ended Egypt's nationhood status. And Ramses is also very well known.

Recusant said:
Rangaman said:
Unlikely as it is, I think it would also be cool to see multiple leaders return.
What makes you think it's unlikely? Adding in different leaders would add a great deal of variability (okay, you'd need to bring back leader traits first) to the game; granted, it might be hard to balance, but Civ 5 showed us that Firaxis doesn't consider that as important as they used to.

It could also help differentiate separate incarnations of the same Civ; the differences between Achaemenid and Sassanid Persia, while notable, wouldn't be huge; that's not the case between ancient and modern Israel.
I said unlikely because of the reveal. The description of Roosevelt as "the leader of the Americans" rather than "a leader of the Americans" seems to imply that there is one leader for one Civ. And Fireaxis, to my knowledge, doesn't like bringing things back after they remove them. Remember Civilization II's global warming?
 

Recusant

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Rangaman said:
Recusant said:
Rangaman said:
Unlikely as it is, I think it would also be cool to see multiple leaders return.
What makes you think it's unlikely? Adding in different leaders would add a great deal of variability (okay, you'd need to bring back leader traits first) to the game; granted, it might be hard to balance, but Civ 5 showed us that Firaxis doesn't consider that as important as they used to.

It could also help differentiate separate incarnations of the same Civ; the differences between Achaemenid and Sassanid Persia, while notable, wouldn't be huge; that's not the case between ancient and modern Israel.
I said unlikely because of the reveal. The description of Roosevelt as "the leader of the Americans" rather than "a leader of the Americans" seems to imply that there is one leader for one Civ. And Fireaxis, to my knowledge, doesn't like bringing things back after they remove them. Remember Civilization II's global warming?
The revelation ("reveal" is a verb, not a noun) said that the Americans wouldn't have multiple leaders; not that no one would. You're right, it's unlikely, but hardly a done deal.

And while I do remember Civ 2's global warming, it was taken out because it detracted from gameplay and didn't add anything- and it was added back in in Alpha Centauri, where it added quite a bit, if you let it. I also remember Alpha Centauri removing government types and adding in social engineering options- which were removed in favor of government types in Civ 3, then flipped again in 4.
 

Lodgem

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The thing that I'd like most from Civ VI as far as civilisations and leaders are concerned is ease of customisation.

As far back as the first game I always re-badged my leader and civ as Genius of the Counters. They had a very imaginative naming scheme for the cities they founded. The first was One and the second was Two. I'll leave it to you to guess how they named the rest. I always preferred fictional civilisations rather than real-world civilisations for some reason.

With later games the extra features has made this significantly harder. I've no idea how you could get back that ease of customisation without losing something significant but it's something I'd like to see anyway.
 

Sonmi

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Lunncal said:
Chessrook44 said:
Well one thing I know for certain is that the Egyptian leader is female.

How do I know? Quill18, a Let's Player, was flown out to play 60 turns of a game (twice), and he did videos recently showing gameplay he was given, while also discussing the various mechanics and changes. The only civs he saw were America, Egypt, and China (He played China), and he referred to Egypt as "She".
Cleopatra is probably always going to be the leader of Egypt in civ. She's the most well known Egyptian leader I think, and she's one of the relatively few women available for them to use. Did Quill18 mention who the leader of China was? I'm hoping it'll be Wu Zetian again, and if he referred to China as "her" as well it'd have to be her.
China isn't Wu Zetian, it's Qin Shi Huang, the Frog King.

And as mentioned, despite being well known, Cleopatra is barely competent or Egyptian, really, Hatshepsut is a far more appropriate choice.

Also, I'd possibly like the see the Celts again, but this time led by Vercingetorix, or the Gauls to be made their own Civ.
 

Lord Garnaat

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Rangaman said:
I said unlikely because of the reveal. The description of Roosevelt as "the leader of the Americans" rather than "a leader of the Americans" seems to imply that there is one leader for one Civ. And Fireaxis, to my knowledge, doesn't like bringing things back after they remove them. Remember Civilization II's global warming?
Which Roosevelt? I'm praying for Theodore, but I'm resigned to believe it will be Franklin Delano. Again.

I would second an Italian civ under Garibaldi, as mentioned above. I'm also hoping for a Mexican civ, possibly - they ordinarily don't include the more modern nations, but I think there's something to be said for them. I also hope that they make Sweden less completely awful this time around.

In addition, they should probably just break and make a Canada civ at this point. They might seem harmless, but the modders love them.

I would throw my support behind multiple leaders returning in this new game. I thought that Civ 5 was a vast improvement in most areas, but Firaxis leaving that out was a bit disappointing. Having more than one option for certain civs would definitely lend some variety.

A different Indian leader than Ghandi would also be welcome. He wasn't even the head of state, people! There are other people available!
 

Lodgem

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I strongly suspect that they'll go for someone famous, rather than someone who could be considered a stronger or "better" ruler, but less famous. While, as I said earlier, I'd prefer fictional civilisations I think that for real world civilisations it would be better to pick a stronger ruler over a more famous one, I doubt that's what we're going to get.

I suspect that they're going for rulers/political leaders that are both famous and are seen as competent at least. Bonus points, I expect, for female leaders to help balance out the fact that most historical rulers tend to be male. This is why England is likely to get someone like Elizabeth I, or Victoria over one of their many kings (not suggesting that these queens wouldn't be good choices anyway, of course).

Gandhi is one of the most famous Indian political figures, at least in the western world - I expect things may be different in India. While it would make sense to select someone else from India's history I'd be surprised if they did.

I'd like to see one of the ancient rulers over the region, although I don't know enough about Indian history to say whether anyone would make sense as an ancient ruler over the nation we know as India today. If limited to Prime Ministers since independence from the British Empire you have a more limited list, but would Indira Gandhi be a reasonable choice? Her name should at least be familiar to many of the players, assuming that's a consideration. I don't know all that much about her.

Regarding Egypt, I didn't know who Hatshepsut was, but after looking her up I agree that she'd make a very good choice of leader. Unfortunately not being anywhere near as famous as Cleopatra I think will work against her. The other famous female Egyptian political figure is Nefertiti, but I wouldn't consider her a good choice because she didn't seem to rule alone for long (if at all). The Pharaoh was her husband for most, if not all, of her reign. They could also offer Rameses II as a possible choice again, but I expect we'll get Cleopatra.