College Education Arms Race Bankrupting America

[Johnnyallstar]

*snippity

You misquoted those pearls of wisdom to xDarc instead of me, but that's okay, I can forgive little errors, plus agree with what you say.

Mostly, unions were created to protect workers from hostile bosses, but thanks to OSHA, their main, original purpose has been subsidized by the federal government. Anymore, unions, especially public sector unions are becoming just political machines that.... Ah hell I don't want to go down that road, only ugliness lies there.

And there are some serious issues with where exactly all the money from the fed is going. I mean, iirc, Rhode Island a few months ago made headlines because the teachers were making over twice what the average person made in their counties, and they threw a mega sh*tstorm when the taxpayers started talking about reducing their pay to something a little more in line with the local averages.

And then, the NEA used teacher retirements to pay for political contributions, only to then ask that their retirement fund be bailed out by the fed so... Not going there, ugly, ugly ugly.

 

[Paragon Fury]

2: The US is no longer a "blue collar" economy, its a "white collar" economy. White collar jobs almost by definition require a college education, even to get a basic grasp of knowledge required to operate in that field. Even the military, many MOSs require an almost college-level of education, at least in one specific area. You have to go to college (or an equivalent) to be an officer even.

3: The US simply no longer desires the kinds of jobs that don't require higher education. No wants to grow up to be a plumber, or a line worker, or an electrician anymore because those jobs fucking suck. Mindless desk may be boring as shit, but it ranks higher on the prestige scale than carpenter. Pays better too.

You're projecting your views onto the US at large - hardly a good argument. But you're serious, aren't you? That's what scares me. Some sort of "prestige scale" exists? That's the sort of thinking that led to a college degree becoming this "elite" status that everyone wants to pursue - that they need to pursue so they don't get a "crap" job. Never mind the fact that most self-employed and/or blue collar workers enjoy a degree of autonomy that white collar employees can only dream of - autonomy which has been shown to be key to happiness. (Seriously, 2 minutes with Google.) No, you must work white collar so you can...look down on others? Compare how good your job is to your friends? Make more money? If that's all it's about - money - take a "blue collar job" for 4 years, put that money into savings, and watch compound interest do its thing.

I'll reiterate my anecdotal evidence - the happiest people I know are those who are in business for themselves, and they are plumbers, electricians, contractors, cleaners, and generally blue-collar people. What good is it to be rich if you're miserable? What good is it to have a high-paying job if you come home from your cubicle+commute and hate the idea of waking up in the morning to go to work?

Anyways. Sure, you need a college degree to get into certain fields. But you shouldn't need it. It's become a requirement where it used to be a "leg up" on the competition - and it shouldn't even be that. Just because you were breathing and had a pulse throughout your forced march through school is no reason to give you a job over someone who's had experience and discipline, but no degree. The education system has become so watered down that it's no longer a proper yardstick.

Occupational Prestige Ratings [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupational_prestige] - Yes, its the Wiki page. But search for "Occupational Prestige Rankings/Ratings" on Bing and you'll get 18,800 results, mostly from government or university or media sites. Its a very real thing.

Comparison of Average Yearly Salary and Lifetime Earnings for Varying Levels of Degrees [http://www.earnmydegree.com/online-education/learning-center/education-value.html]


Its not just "speculation" and projection; people who spend the money to learn more, earn more, and get more respected jobs. Hence why so many people want degrees.

 

[Atmos Duality]

You misquoted those pearls of wisdom to xDarc instead of me, but that's okay, I can forgive little errors, plus agree with what you say.

Mostly, unions were created to protect workers from hostile bosses, but thanks to OSHA, their main, original purpose has been subsidized by the federal government. Anymore, unions, especially public sector unions are becoming just political machines that.... Ah hell I don't want to go down that road, only ugliness lies there.

And there are some serious issues with where exactly all the money from the fed is going. I mean, iirc, Rhode Island a few months ago made headlines because the teachers were making over twice what the average person made in their counties, and they threw a mega sh*tstorm when the taxpayers started talking about reducing their pay to something a little more in line with the local averages.

And then, the NEA used teacher retirements to pay for political contributions, only to then ask that their retirement fund be bailed out by the fed so... Not going there, ugly, ugly ugly.

Sorry, been having some formatting issues on the Escapist today.
Lots of dropped posts...I'm unsure why.

Well, elaborating at this point is only going to lead to a lengthy and very angry post, so I'll just this instead: "Politics is the most profitable waste of time ever devised."

 

[C.S.Strowbridge]

I'm not gonna do a well researched thread...

Gee, I wonder why you didn't get the immediate response you were looking for?

Because I didn't post a question or poll. I'm not gonna post figures for people to pick with, i've seen threads become entirely about sources. I'd rather deal strictly in opinion.

So you made a thread that you stated was not going to be well-researched, and you then complained they people were not interested.

Well maybe i'll just fucking move to Canada then...

Please don't.

I may fail, but I save a fuck ton of free time.

The number of times you replied in this thread suggests you didn't save any time. You just wasted your and amused us.

 

[Hap2]

Moving to Canada isn't going to help you much, the education system here can be just as brutal if not more so.

For instance, to those who keep saying elementary education and high school education are slack and 'easy' has not had a child go through them recently. The school board in our city has gone so crazy over trying to compete with statistics from China and Japan, that my younger brother has required my parents' constant help just to manage all the huge amounts of homework. Most of it useless, with tests every week, constant novel studies and reports, art projects (that are NOT Art but arts and crafts BS) and a presentation almost every month. His workload is comparable to mine in amount and even style as a university student. They've shut down several smaller schools because they didn't have "enough kids per class" per teacher to justify keeping them open. They prefer having 30-40 kids per teacher, it's more "efficient" despite the evidence showing the drop in education quality, as if they were pawns and workers waiting to happen and not people. Hell, even the content of the work in terms of science, math, and other more 'practical' classes has been tailored precisely for kids to be prepared for a university career in those fields. It's sickening. Forcing education isn't going to make anyone want to do anything. It'll just make it seem like a chore.

The whole system more or less seems to be a bloody capitalistic factory. To make money to live on, the society has geared people to thinking a degree is needed for a person to be 'hire-able', so it ends up getting people to ship off to university thinking that that is the wisest course of action. Many go into debt, having to work through college if they're not lucky, racking up debt from loans along the way. Finally when they get out, and more often than not they are lucky to be hired into a job that is neither fulfilling nor producing as much money as they were expecting so they can pay off debt and begin saving up for a house/car/family etc. Trapped in a bloody system of work, just to maintain the status quo.

It is honestly sad and pathetic that university/college is no longer considered a place for "knowledge for the sake of knowledge" by society anymore. It's just one big business, the intellectual programs get budget cuts, and the sections that churn out the most workers get all the funding. What a waste, if this is any indication, technology is going to leap years ahead, but culture and thought that would provide the capacity to handle such technology is going to remain stagnant.