Communism vs. Capitalism, which is really better?

[Cyberjester]

Communism has never actually been put into practice, only a form of socialism. Usually fascism. It has the potential to work, but you need honest people who aren't going to fk someone over because they can.

And what do we learn in schools? Might makes right and survival of the fittest, people stop thinking bullying is bad around.. 2? Seen a few 1yr olds being complete jerks so could be born like that.

Capitalism however.. I'd almost say it's worse. It does the whole controlling, evil thing that communism does, it just.. Think of it like a religious hypocrite. You're doing something and it's bad, I'm doing the same thing but I'm a good person so it's okay. For example, the price fixing which runs rampant throughout stores. Capitalism should have competition but there's no such thing. It just means the rich can be rich without living in fear of the masses calling революции.

 

[Cyberjester]

hell what happens if you commit a crime, you'd be lower in society so technically a true Communist state couldn't even punish criminals, now that's a scary thought.

We're working on it. Lawyers and easier sentences all round.

The only really good think I think that came out of the Soviet Union was their weapon technology.

Also Tetris and videos of Tetris with catchy songs. ^ ^


On the topic of cool Soviet weaponry though, check out the TP82.

It's a shotgun, it's a pistol, the stock can be detached and used as a machete. ^ ^

It's the swiss army knife of guns.

 

[GotMalkAvian]

Unfortunately, no economic system will ever truly work until our very nature as a species changes. Now, we've gone for about 200,000 years (50,000 of those in organized societies) without changing much, so I don't really see us becoming completely altruistic and selfless in the near future.
Communism fails because people don't actually want to be equal. Our basic biologic drives push us to be better and have more than others. We are driven to select mates based on individual achievements, and true communism would basically put everyone on an even plane, making no one more or less desirable.
Capitalism fails because we have a survival instinct which drives us to gather, amass, and hoard, even (and sometimes especially) at the expense of others. When this mentality runs the mind of a corporate executive, we see low-quality products made by poorly-treated workers and sold for a ridiculous markup. Like any other animal, our instincts push us to get as much as possible with as little effort or cost to ourselves. As a natural extension of this competetive nature, some people will rise to the top of the social order, and others will be pushed to the bottom.
Technically, I guess capitalism works as intended, but without at least mild goverment regulation (the regulation that most governments have is a joke, since corporate lobbyists can easily buy votes or groom their own candidates for office) the system damages more people than it helps.

 

[SenseOfTumour]

I'm not sure I can answer the actual thread, but I did read something recently that may shed some light on things.

There was an international survey on 'happiness', and it turned out not to relate to the richest or poorest countries, but the happiest countries were those with the smallest gaps between rich and poor.

I would theorise from that data, that the happiness stems from, even if you're poor, seeing a reasonable chance of escaping that and working your way up to a better place in life, whereas when the rich are super rich and millions of dollars away from your lifestyle, it's almost impossible to work your way to anything but a minor wage increase, except for the select few who break thru due to elite skills, talent, or ideas.

I know, childish an idea as it may be, it'll always bug me that there's people out there with tens of billions of dollars, and doing nothing with it but pushing it around to make more. (I know that it's being invested and it's actually helping the economy but I still can't help but feel 'for fuck's sake, go buy some shit you rich fuckers, spread it around some!)

Oh while I was looking up 'world's richest people', expect Windows 8 soon, as Bill Gates just dropped to 2nd place by half a billion dollars, despite Microsoft making $13 billion last year, a 25% profit in 12 months during one of the biggest worldwide depressions in recent history. Expect him to be going crazy trying to get his top spot back, despite his wealth just being a bunch of numbers past human understanding now.

Another fact that came up recently, 0.3% of the UK's residents own 70% of the UL's land, I'm suddenly hugely in favour of inheritance tax going up and making em sell some off

 

[Bad Jim]

Another fact that came up recently, 0.3% of the UK's residents own 70% of the UL's land, I'm suddenly hugely in favour of inheritance tax going up and making em sell some off

Marx had a lot to say about the monopolisation of land in his book, Das Kapital. He told how english feudal lords corrupted the system, and over several centuries the land that came with their political offices became their personal property. Land is essential to human existence, so they could squeeze the population for everything beyond their basic needs as rent. Land reform was a big part of the Communist Manifesto.

Now I wouldn't say there was some kind of massive conspiracy or propaganda effort or anything, but isn't it rather curious that a thread about communism takes 8 pages to mention the topic of land?

Land ownership is very different from owning, say, a car, because even if you didn't make the car yourself you can claim to have financially compensated those who did make it. Land isn't made by people, therefore no-one has a greater moral right to it than anyone else.

Taking cars from people who have many, and giving them to those who have none discourages people buying cars. Taking land from those who have lots of it merely discourages monopolisation of a scarce resource.

I think a bit of land reform is in order.

 

[FaithorFire]

Communism is better but it doesn't work because of human nature

Not to be insulting, but that's a little like saying: Floating Pirate ships are better than planes, but don't work because of gravity/physics.

 

[Mikeyfell]

Communism is better but it doesn't work because of human nature

Not to be insulting, but that's a little like saying: Floating Pirate ships are better than planes, but don't work because of gravity/physics.

I don't think so
Floating Pirate Ships are cooler than plains but not better

planes still have jet engines and wings
that's a bit more effective than a rudder and sails

Communism works on paper: If all the jobs get done everyone gets payed the same amount.
In theory that promotes teamwork and unity. In a perfect world Communism is the best way to go because it would lead to an even distribution of wealth and that's the best way to get an economy to flourish. but the world's not perfect. 9 out of 8 people would try to take advantage of the system and it'd all fall apart.
[sub]and before you ask. yes a Communist economy can flourish.[/sub]

Capitalism is different: Look out for number 1, survival of the fittest, trample over anyone for an extra buck.
In theory being a decent human being doesn't fly in Capitalism. but in practice it works very well because there are so few decent human beings. so eventually all the money will sit with just a few people who hardly spend anything and everyone else is either buying things on credit or homeless.

if only there were some middle ground
like a rocket propelled pirate ship! Or personalized jet-packs! That would be so cool!

 

[StevenSuffern]

I may be misinformed and ignorant, but it seemed that many indigenous North American peoples thrived in a communistic society, where resources were shared, people worked hard to make what they wanted and no one else complained they didn't have it because they respected the creator's hard work, and the only semblance of government was the experience of the oldest and wisest members of the tribe. It's entirely possible that communism could work, but as many people have stated, being that the ideas of competition and value and many other things have been introduced to us, we cannot imagine living only to our needs, and sharing what extra we have.

 

[alimarin]

Capitalism is the better system, simply because it works.

Because of Human nature Communism will never work successfully, Communism essentially goes against the human programming of be better than everyone else. Best case scenario a Communist state fails without much unrest, Worst case scenario the USSR/North Korea is spawned that is essentially a totalitarian state that claims everyone is equal.

Who is to say that we can't overcome nature? Isn't that the basis of human society? overcoming our natural way of life to make a new one how we want?