While I often agree with points old Yahtzee makes, I've got to question the logic on this one. I can relate to the idea that ME2 lacked the scope of ME1 in terms of exploration, and I agree that whoever thought of the "let's make people spend 33% of the game scanning planets" was probably huffing paint when he formed that bright idea, but I think the overall point of this article was kind of weak. I mean, the introduction for the article is "The space-buggy sections in Mass Effect 2 may have been annoying, but at least they were there." So what's your point Yahtzee? That something can totally suck balls, but it gets bonus points for the sake of existing? That's like saying, cancer may be a major bummer, but at least it exists. As though the alternative to something bad existing (i.e. that thing not existing) was somehow a worst situation.
Connectivity
- Thread starter Yahtzee Croshaw
- Start date
I think a lot of people missed the actual problem with the driving in the first Mass Effect. It wasn't the vehicle that was the problem, it was the f*cking terrain on those maps. Far too many planets had nigh-unscalable mountains, at the top of which were the minerals or outpost to which you needed to get. If they would have kept the vehicle and made the maps a bit more reasonable in area and "jaggedness", it's my belief that the complaints would have gone away and people like me wouldn't be left sitting here wondering why ME2 felt so shallow.
As far as the vehicle controls are concerned, I don't get the problem. The right stick controls where you look as well as where you steer. Not ideal, but it's not hard to get used to with a bit of practice. Goes for ME1 as well as Borderlands and probably many more games past and to come.
As far as the vehicle controls are concerned, I don't get the problem. The right stick controls where you look as well as where you steer. Not ideal, but it's not hard to get used to with a bit of practice. Goes for ME1 as well as Borderlands and probably many more games past and to come.
If you want an epic game of bigness Yahtzee I suggest Vega Strike, the incredibly old version that I have of it is brilliant, worth a look at least. Lots of trading and wooshy blasty fun, much better than the battles in Space Force: Rogue Universe at least.Yahtzee Croshaw said:
i cant say I noticed this lack of bigness, although the normandy seemed "bigger" than any other areas just because you had to load everytime you went between decks. This really pissed me off, I spoke to the crew not on the nav deck less because I couldnt be arsed to wait for it to load. I think if they had then got me to walk to the door to get onto the planet it would have driven me mad.
There was a Japanese Gundam MMO I played for awhile (I was fluent enough to get by and to interact with the community) called Universal Century Gundam Online. The environments themselves were largely flat and barren, seeing as how the game took place in Australia, and the combat was fun enough, mixing sim-ish elements with traditional MMO combat. I believe it's closed down now, unfortunately. Granted, the engine was clunky and performed poorly, and the on-foot sections left a lot to be desired, but it was a good effort at a Gundam MMO.
More specific to the point of the article, however: an expansion had been released for the game sometime before I joined that allowed players to fly around and fight in space as well as in the barren wasteland that was Virtual Australia. Special engine or suit types were required for space battles, and tactics substantially varied due to 3D movement. It felt "big", too; you had to fly Jumpgate-style for great distances to get to new areas.
Here are two links I'd like to show you. First, here's how the game handles the transition from the ground to space sections. It should be accompanied by a music track when the space cutscene plays, but the person playing probably has that off. This is the best implementation of seamless transition between two completely different area types I have ever seen, and this is what I wish Mass Effect and similar big-budget titles would work on getting right instead of stuffing loading screens in people's faces like this was 1994.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plGfiMNYT5o
The second is a space PvP raid by Zeon players on an enemy faction's base, a complete furball:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiLZavlhWF4&feature=related
More specific to the point of the article, however: an expansion had been released for the game sometime before I joined that allowed players to fly around and fight in space as well as in the barren wasteland that was Virtual Australia. Special engine or suit types were required for space battles, and tactics substantially varied due to 3D movement. It felt "big", too; you had to fly Jumpgate-style for great distances to get to new areas.
Here are two links I'd like to show you. First, here's how the game handles the transition from the ground to space sections. It should be accompanied by a music track when the space cutscene plays, but the person playing probably has that off. This is the best implementation of seamless transition between two completely different area types I have ever seen, and this is what I wish Mass Effect and similar big-budget titles would work on getting right instead of stuffing loading screens in people's faces like this was 1994.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=plGfiMNYT5o
The second is a space PvP raid by Zeon players on an enemy faction's base, a complete furball:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wiLZavlhWF4&feature=related
I have to agree and disagree with you on this one Yahtzee. I agree that yes there needs to be a tad more context with transferring from space to space dock to exitting the spaceship onto the location you just docked from and even a bit more flight look when going from planet to planet cause yes I got the same feeling you did about even though there are representations to let you know how huge the galaxy was it felt like I should have had a telepad next to the nav control just to shoot me onto my desired location. They did need to add a bit more there but then there is the fear of adding too much and you end up like the horrible space buggy situation where your spending hours just roaming around at first thinking "this is great it's so huge!" then after a few minutes your more thinking "just give me my damn resources so I can make my equipment and get off this damn rock."
Reading this article kinda make me think of Kingdom Hearts with that cute little gummi ship that you built ( I made mine a borg cube and hid the jets and guns inside LOL ) and you could play the little mini game blasting enemies and blocks and it gave you a great sense of distance from one location to the next also they were nice enough to let you skip that whole mini game for those who just want to get there now and continue with the storyline.
So yes your right it needs more but also you gotta find the line to not giving it too much.
Reading this article kinda make me think of Kingdom Hearts with that cute little gummi ship that you built ( I made mine a borg cube and hid the jets and guns inside LOL ) and you could play the little mini game blasting enemies and blocks and it gave you a great sense of distance from one location to the next also they were nice enough to let you skip that whole mini game for those who just want to get there now and continue with the storyline.
So yes your right it needs more but also you gotta find the line to not giving it too much.
How odd. That whole Frontier thing and the sense of sheer size and how it all flows together was something I was mulling over on another thread about an hour ago without having read this yet.
Funny how we have this amazing - literally, gobsmackingly powerful - hardware at our disposal, and people marketing games still go doolally over having a hundred square km of poorly-integrated play area. Then suddenly something like that - or for example, it's more primitive (nearly cubist in its abstract minimalism re: polygons) forebear Mercenary - comes bubbling up out of history to bitchslap the lot of them. So the actual experience of playing it isn't so gripping as a sub-1mb game played on an 8mhz 16-bit system... therefore what have all the mhz and mbs that make up the difference been DOING all this time, other than lens flare?
Funny how we have this amazing - literally, gobsmackingly powerful - hardware at our disposal, and people marketing games still go doolally over having a hundred square km of poorly-integrated play area. Then suddenly something like that - or for example, it's more primitive (nearly cubist in its abstract minimalism re: polygons) forebear Mercenary - comes bubbling up out of history to bitchslap the lot of them. So the actual experience of playing it isn't so gripping as a sub-1mb game played on an 8mhz 16-bit system... therefore what have all the mhz and mbs that make up the difference been DOING all this time, other than lens flare?
I think I also felt that about ME2, I liked the game, it was good but...
Everything felt almost rushed, like as soon as you got to it, it was over and you were moving on. There is little to no exploration value in this, and honestly even with the planets in the first game there was about as much exploration value.
I want to be able to explore, find new interesting things that I may not have necessarily found had I not ventured out. I want to go into a new area expecting tons of new things, new items, new enemies, etc.
It really didn't give that epic feeling.
Also the last boss was lame.
Everything felt almost rushed, like as soon as you got to it, it was over and you were moving on. There is little to no exploration value in this, and honestly even with the planets in the first game there was about as much exploration value.
I want to be able to explore, find new interesting things that I may not have necessarily found had I not ventured out. I want to go into a new area expecting tons of new things, new items, new enemies, etc.
It really didn't give that epic feeling.
Also the last boss was lame.
I might be an anomaly, but I didn't mind driving the Mako around. It made me feel like I was an actual space captain, exploring planets and the like, and some of the background scenery on some of those planets was just amazing. Had they give us more to do then collect moon rocks, it would have been really cool.
I'm just hoping the third installment can balance the interesting story, deep characterization, RPG elements, space exploration and combat. They have most of it down in either 1 or 2, now all they have to do its bring it all home. I have faith!
I'm just hoping the third installment can balance the interesting story, deep characterization, RPG elements, space exploration and combat. They have most of it down in either 1 or 2, now all they have to do its bring it all home. I have faith!