Context Sensitive: Who Is the PS3 For?

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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Context Sensitive: Who Is the PS3 For?

Once again, the PlayStation 3 is suffering with an identity crisis.

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Cherry Cola

Your daddy, your Rock'n'Rolla
Jun 26, 2009
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It isn't for everyone.

It's for everyone with a huge wallet

[sub]zing![/sub]

OT: Interesting read though. Although the Move almost seems better than the Wii in some ways. But I guess that doesn't excuse the fact that the PS3 should focus on lesser things.

Edit: Wait, I just came up with a reason as to why the Average Joe should by a PS3.

Because of Kevin Butler.
 

PedroSteckecilo

Mexican Fugitive
Feb 7, 2008
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While I get more use out of my 360 on average, I must admit that I love my PS3 more... don't know why exactly, there's something "special" about loading a game onto it, I guess because I only pick up a select few titles for it, titles I KNOW are better on it and hence it feels more... I dunno, special than the 360. It's a strange thing really.
 

The Random One

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Yeah, it looks like the higher-ups in Sony are quite confused about who they should be selling this strange machine they built to. Every time one of them opens their mouth their feet quickly enters it.

I think the one reason Average J. Joe would want to buy a PS3 is because the console he already has is statistically likely to be a PS2. Then again, since the PS2 still has games being made for it, there's little reason for you to pay up to upgrade if it's still working well.

Then again, if I had to convince Average J. Joe to buy a PS3 instead a 360 I'd just mention it has free online play. That ought to do it.

(I have a 360, mostly because when I was deciding Saints' Row and Dead Rising were exclusives. The only PS3 only game I genuinely wish I could play is Heavy Rain, and even so so I can see what all the buzz is about.)
 

JaymesFogarty

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The Random One said:
Yeah, it looks like the higher-ups in Sony are quite confused about who they should be selling this strange machine they built to. Every time one of them opens their mouth their feet quickly enters it.

I think the one reason Average J. Joe would want to buy a PS3 is because the console he already has is statistically likely to be a PS2. Then again, since the PS2 still has games being made for it, there's little reason for you to pay up to upgrade if it's still working well.

Then again, if I had to convince Average J. Joe to buy a PS3 instead a 360 I'd just mention it has free online play. That ought to do it.

(I have a 360, mostly because when I was deciding Saints' Row and Dead Rising were exclusives. The only PS3 only game I genuinely wish I could play is Heavy Rain, and even so so I can see what all the buzz is about.)
Trust me, Heavy Rain is the most innovative game released in this century, because it has the power to be more like marmite, (in splitting opinions) than even marmite is. It is probably of the most emotional game releases for a while, focussing on very sensitive subjects, accompanied of course by pulse-raising, ferocious action sequences. Try to sneak a few hours on a friends PS3 if you can, this game is definitely not to be missed.

On subject, the PS3 is for people that want visceral, single-player experiences. PS3 is trumped in online, (Xbox Live is more advanced than PSN, naturally because of the year difference and the cost) but the PlayStation 3 offers, (for me, and presumably everyone else) the widest expanse of single-player experiences.
 

Tharticus

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With the PS3 trying to be the Wii, I can't blame Sony for again appealing to the casual audience.

Of course PS2 did appeal to the casual audience with the eyetoy.
 

uppitycracker

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Susan Arendt said:
At first, Sony presented it as an incredible piece of technology that would become the anchor piece of your entertainment center, so amazing in its capabilities that it was more than worth its $600 price tag.
While I completely agree that the purpose of the PS3 seems to be a constantly shifting focus, it appears to me that it's just an unfortunate side-product of this quote here. Being an owner of all current-gen consoles, I can tell you that the PS3 really does make an excellent piece of entertainment gear. The ability to stream or copy movies and music over from my PC, to the blu ray player, the movie service, it all adds up to quite a bit. I fought liking the PS3 as a gaming console for so long, that now that I'm actually finding decent games for it, I can't find a reason to hate it.

This dive into the motion controllers, however, just seems like an excuse to dust off those lousy eyetoy cameras again, and maybe make them sell. While it is interesting how they're kinda 1-uping Nintendo in certain aspects of capability and function, it's still going to end the same way, another gimmicky device with a library full of garbage shovelware, and maybe a couple of decent games thrown into the mix (half of which could be just as easily enjoyed, if not more so, with a standard controller).

Sometimes, there are certain aspects of gaming that don't require a lot of innovation, and I think this is something Sony has been struggling with, not quite understanding, for some time. Right now, what the PS3 absolutely needs, is some harder hitting titles to really identify itself as anything. As much as I love my PS3 these days, I see this as being the unfortunate truth.
 

Susan Arendt

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uppitycracker said:
Susan Arendt said:
At first, Sony presented it as an incredible piece of technology that would become the anchor piece of your entertainment center, so amazing in its capabilities that it was more than worth its $600 price tag.
While I completely agree that the purpose of the PS3 seems to be a constantly shifting focus, it appears to me that it's just an unfortunate side-product of this quote here. Being an owner of all current-gen consoles, I can tell you that the PS3 really does make an excellent piece of entertainment gear. The ability to stream or copy movies and music over from my PC, to the blu ray player, the movie service, it all adds up to quite a bit. I fought liking the PS3 as a gaming console for so long, that now that I'm actually finding decent games for it, I can't find a reason to hate it.
Couldn't agree more. The PS3 is a marvelous piece of hardware, a worthy addition to any gamer's home. If only Sony had more confidence in it.
 

zakski

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Ps3 for me just dont got the killer app, or least didn't until it was too late on account of havin a 360, that kinda hesitation will cost them sales
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?

Why was the press obsessed with Sony's motion controller name, and whether it was "exciting", but they've never asked MS to give us something other than the dev name?

I mean, come on, even the straw man in the article seems a bit out of bounds. Seriously, someone walks into a game store and we should believe they wouldn't be able to work out that the PS3 plays games? In my opinion, this so-called "identity crisis" is as much a factor of the (mostly western) press reaction as anything else. No, it doesn't matter that I'm a gamer. I was never confused about what I was buying. The people who I've recommended a PS3 to knew what they were getting (and so did the folks I recommended get a Wii or 360, BTW), a game machine that played the kind of games they wanted.

Where is the review of the XBox history? That machine seems a bit confused right now, as well. One example: they seem to have changed from "10 years is WAY too long for a console lifespan" to "well, you know, we think the XBox 360 will be around until 2015". THAT'S a reversal that has gone completely unnoticed by the western press. They have bought into Sony's lifespan plan. In fact, you can find Nintendo saying similar things about the lifespan of the Wii. Why isn't this as noteworthy as a retrospective of the PS3's marketing, and not the FIRST one at that, mind you? Just 2 years after the fact, XBox has been allowed to live down a 30% defect rate that bordered on fraud. But Sony is just CRAZY because 6 years ago they had a weird add. You see why that might seem a bit off-putting?

You see, it's news if it's new. We already know the early marketing was filled with hubris and silliness. That's not news. We also know ALL consoles are putting out motion controls, which in a regular world running on human logic means that none of them are confused about being gaming consoles that have motion controllers.

Why it's news for Sony, and apparently bad news from the tone of the write up, well, I guess that's wisdom for the US gaming press to create and deliver.
 

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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Unless I'm missing something here, the only console that knows how to market itself at the moment is the Wii.

360 and PS3 are both playing follow the leader moton control wise, attempting to attract some of the Wii crowd, but forgetting price is more important than content to a 1 hour a week individual the Wii encompasses.

If I recall 360 marketed its HD-DVD capabilities (add on of course) and Sony followed suit later with "our technology can beat up your technology".

360 copied Miis with Avatars, the PS3 then answered with Home. All the downloadable games utilities sprung up as well.

Sorry, but this week you don't know what you're talking about Susan. All the consoles can be construed as having an indentity crisis, they all follow each other. Maybe not the Wii if you're feeling generous.
 

mrx19869

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"Figure out what the PS3 is, Sony, and let it be that."

I think the commercials speak for itself, the PS3 wants to be EVERYTHING.

is that hard to understand?

i didnt buy a Wii because it was rushed, crappy graphics, and lack of features.
the wii is just a gamecube your shake a stick at.

the PS3 is going to win this console war again.

ohh an no matter which way you look at it the PS3 is cheaper than the xbox360..
 

Rainboq

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The PS3 should be a gaming console, nothing more, sure the PS2 could play movies, but no one used that, so Sony, stick too the gaming with the PS3
 

SaintWaldo

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Random Bobcat said:
If I recall 360 marketed its HD-DVD capabilities (add on of course) and Sony followed suit later with "our technology can beat up your technology".

360 copied Miis with Avatars, the PS3 then answered with Home. Then all the downloadable games utilities sprung up.
I agree with your overall premise, just a couple nits here:

PS3 always was going to have Blu-Ray. 360 tacked on the HD-DVD player after release as a "me do HD too" sort of move.

The correct historical order is Miis, Home, Avatars. Downloadable games (for consoles) preceded all of these, and in fact were first available on the original XBox.

Again, not arguing the premise, just correcting some of the history.
 

Monshroud

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Jul 29, 2009
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I finally bought a PS3 about a month ago, for one main reason... PS3 Exclusives. (Like God of War, Ratchet & Clank, etc) When I originally wanted it, it did in fact do everything. I was saving to buy a PS3, but every iteration of the device they removed some functionality. While all of these may not be important to you, I liked the idea of replacing a bunch of my electroics with one solid piece of equipment.

They removed: Multiple USB ports, SACD, Backwards Compatibility, Multi-Reader.

While I currently use the PS3 to play Blu-Ray movies, of which I have two. I am planning on buying an Oppo instead which is a higher quality and faster player. Sony wanted to take over the living room and instead settled for having a game system that plays movies too... Just like the PS2, too bad they got out of the gate late and made the thing difficult to program for.
 

Jared

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Jul 14, 2009
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Tharticus said:
With the PS3 trying to be the Wii, I can't blame Sony for again appealing to the casual audience.

Of course PS2 did appeal to the casual audience with the eyetoy.
Not just the eye ty but things like Singstar too, and the guitar hero francise (Which started off on the PS2)

So, really trhey have always tried to pull in all kinds of markets, and all kinds of groups...granted, they have not always worked, and not always been successful...
 

Snotnarok

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The PS3 was a total disaster, it took them way too long to come out with it (they thought they could make a system that ran solely from the processor I gathered) it cost WAY too much and had no games, it's the hardest system to program for currently making any ports take extra wor and they lose some detail, they had no reason to get one for the longest time. The system didn't even have a vibrating controller for god sake that's something even the PSOne did. And the online is only now starting to come together, it's been quite a trip with the online with PSN. Then they put out some sweet games for it, then ...they removed backwards compatibility (this for me angered the hell out of me because there's only one reason for it, they want to do what xbox360 does and sell older titles for the system, while I still have BC if my system ever dies I'll just be a bit pissed to be honest.) along with the memory stick support. I won't comment on the PS3 arc...move, whatever they're calling it since I am bias against motion controls beyond a bowling game but, yeah.

The PS3 itself is defiantly a disaster, more so when you compare it to the PSOne and PS2 which when it came out people went ape shit bananas over it. Hell I still regard the PS2 as incredible, it did so much right and so little wrong.

Yet even after ALL this screw ups the system still seems to be flying well. That's probably because Sonys exclusives are beyond great and that's why the system is still around. Sony has amazing titles that sell the system, Uncharted, Metal Gear, and holy crap God of War 3. While Sony screws the console up, the games just make up for it and then some I guess I'd say. While the PS3 isn't a bad system (it's actually quite the neat system) the decisions that have been made for it are incredibly poor. It's funny, if you think about it these kinds of decisions might have killed a console years ago but the PS3 is still doing well.

So all considering what the PS3 has gone through and it's still being successful (only more so since God of War 3 is coming out I'd imagine) is quite interesting, at least in my eyes.

Edit: I'm not bashing the PS3 if you didn't get that from reading my large post, I'm simply saying there's been a lot of bad things that's gone on with it, and it's overcome some large hurdles that'd stomp other consoles I guess. I have one and it's quite the neat system, I'm honestly surprised they got themselves out of the hole that they dug because a lot of consoles died early on for the same reasons the PS3 system went through.
 

mrx19869

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does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
 

ThisNewGuy

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Jesus christ, we're back to 2006 when game journalists are all fucking idiots who couldn't understand what "playstation 3" is. PS3 is not an alien. It's not some weird gelatinous goo that oozes out of your rectum every time you attempt to breathe out. Everyone has been using the PS3 for a while now, if the experts still can't understand what the PS3 is, then they're not experts are they.

PS3 is a machine. It has transisters and silicon. It is a home entertainment center that focuses mainly on games. I seriously don't see what the problem is when a company wants to provide a unified platform that offers many services. Why are people still going "omg, I don't know what to do with my PS3, what is it?"

Seriously, if doing 5 function confuses you, how the hell did you even get on the Internet. PCs are obviously WAY too complicated for you.

Yes, PS3 is going the Wii route. It has motion controls now that actually works. I don't remember hearing how Activision is losing its "identity" when it's introducing a game with a guitar controller, "is it a game or a music simulation or a guitar?" Nobody complained when Nintendo announced MadWorld or Manhunt, "is the Wii a children's favorite chew toy, a $250 paper weight, a Mario machine, or a killing simulator?"

I mean, if you still get confused about the ps3 right now, please do us a favor and take yourself behind a shed old-yeller style.
 

Susan Arendt

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SaintWaldo said:
Random Bobcat said:
If I recall 360 marketed its HD-DVD capabilities (add on of course) and Sony followed suit later with "our technology can beat up your technology".

360 copied Miis with Avatars, the PS3 then answered with Home. Then all the downloadable games utilities sprung up.
I agree with your overall premise, just a couple nits here:

PS3 always was going to have Blu-Ray. 360 tacked on the HD-DVD player after release as a "me do HD too" sort of move.

The correct historical order is Miis, Home, Avatars. Downloadable games (for consoles) preceded all of these, and in fact were first available on the original XBox.

Again, not arguing the premise, just correcting some of the history.
Fair enough, I edited the DL games comment as it made it seem I was saying they came first rather than stating they arrived.

The rest, I admit I didn't know their exact order - but as you said, the premise is sound.
 

Casual Shinji

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This whole Playstation Move does feel like a heap of unwanted flaccid spaghetti.

Instead of Sony showing the people the good stuff like GoW 3 and The Last Guardian, they'll waste their time waving this in everybodies faces.
Let's just hope that Move and the hardcore games can live side by side in piece and harmony like the Eyetoy and the PS2 back in the day.
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
She does. Not sure if she's said what model, I assume a 60GB.
 

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
I think by default she'll at least have regular access to one, being a games journalist.

She's just messed up with this article, had a random thought and run with it, with little regard to anything else.

A shame, because Susan is usually well voiced/written. Everyone makes mistakes I guess.
 

Deviluk

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Thats probably the case in the states, but no-one buys a 360 in Japan, and here in the UK all my friends have PS3s. And I don't think their target market is any different to the 360, they practically have the same base of games, and are now doing the same thing with the motion control thing.
 

Susan Arendt

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mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
 

ark123

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People who like to play PS3 games. And blurays.

Look, stop trying to make gaming into motorcycle riding. There are no hell's angels and rice rocket drivers here. We're all the same, only some of us bought xbox360, some of us have PS3s and some of us have both (and if the numbers are any indication we all have Wiis).
 

BehattedWanderer

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What's not to love about a console that is so streamlined that it not only produces games with native High-def, but also comes with the capability to be the centerpiece of anyone's home entertainment? I don't see them pandering to those with a casual interest, I see them with a desire to bring more people into the knowledge that it really might just do everything; everything in regards to electronic home entertainment, that is. That Sony is reaching out to others isn't a sign of indecision, it's a sign of strengthening the ground on which they stand. If they really plan on it having a ten year life span, then it's gonna need something more than just the hardcore gamers. It's undeniably one of the best value Blu-Ray players on the market, and the entertainment value of the games that it gains over time is, if not increasing, at least remaining steady. Free online services means it has a leg up on Microsoft in that department, and with an actual interface for people to hang around in, it's standing over the Wii.

In that regard, they are in a unique position to do something never before witnessed. Imagine this, if you will: an exercise class, taught from the comfort of your own home, where you can actively see your instructor doing the exercises, on the TV, from their living room, while you do your stretches and whatnot from the comfort of yours, via wireless telecommunications with voice chat, image recording, and image transmission. Couple that kind of instantaneous interactivity with an already highly dedicated fanbase of gamers, and you're looking at the same strategy Nintendo used to make the Wii what it is today--start low, getting more people actively using the console, then introduce them to things slightly more game-like, let them get a taste for the addiction, then let it build, by giving them screenshots of awards and "well done!"s. This will lead them to some of the other games, whereupon you just built a new base.

Are they abandoning we the gamers? Not in the slightest, they're giving us more to work with. There might be a slight lull in the influx and quality of games, similar to what we saw with Nintendo, but Nintendo does most of it's work in-house, or handed down to a trusted company that still calls Nintendo its parent company. Sony has a good relationship with a few 3rd party developers, all of whom can keep the games supply steady while Sony plays with a little bit of innovation and foundation building. And that's not even mentioning the Sony-Panasonic collaboration to make the new 33.4 GB, possibly-dual-layered, super-discs (I believe that's correct) on which to fancifully delight all our sensory organs.

I've said for some time that what the Wii really needs to maintain its 'gaming' basis is to come up with a controller, or at least a consistent control scheme that doesn't involve motion sensors. Sony has that, in both the six-axis and Dualshock variety, both of which can easily compensate for any kind of unnecessary twitching. Considering all that, the PS3, while it might be reaching out to more people, is not abandoning us--we're still the center of it's attention, but now it's looking for a few more people to invite to the party with us.
 

John Funk

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SaintWaldo said:
Because:

A.) Natal at least had something we could call it by; PSN motion controller did not, it was interesting to muse about.

B.) The Xbox 360 has never had an identity crisis quite like that of the PS3.

C.) Natal at least *looks* different from the Wiimote. Meanwhile, the difference in advertising here [http://www.gamesradar.com/f/quiz-wiimote-or-playstation-move/a-2010031018145354069]...?

D.) Take. The fanboy blinders. Off. And while you're at it, take the tinfoil hat off, too. You're taking this way too personally, dude.

Every single one of us on the Editorial staff here in the Escapist offices bought a PS3 with their own hard cash. We wouldn't have done this if we didn't think the machine was pretty cool in a lot of ways. You're an idiot if you think we're all members of a global conspiracy dedicated to undermine Sony.
 

SaintWaldo

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Logan Westbrook said:
SaintWaldo said:
You seem to be taking this rather personally, and you really shouldn't.
You seem to be assigning degrees to my thoughts, and you really shouldn't. Refute my argument or don't, but please don't assign emotion to a rational discussion.

In fact, one might point out that claiming a speaker is emotional (or "taking this personally") is a way of deflecting an otherwise valid line of argument for which one can't find a suitable defense. I'm completely dispassionate and have yet to see any words to dispute my points.

I'm sure you only meant to ask if I was emotional, and not attempt to dismiss or color my comment. I'm not.
 

mrx19869

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Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....
I find that you (and Sony's marketing) forget to mention other great features the PS3 has going for it.
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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The PS3 reminds me of my cousin when I was growing up. No matter what my sisters and brothers had to eat or were playing with, he had to have what they had. And boy did he throw a tantrum if he didnt get what he wanted.

So I guess the analogy is; Sony is a little kid who doesnt know what he wants, but screams if someone has something "better" than him.
 

Logan Westbrook

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mrx19869 said:
Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
A well informed counter statement to a poor article is "taking it personally"?
Nope, but an angry rant about a good article is.
but this isnt a good article...
If you say so, but your comments about the Wii earlier suggest that you're less than objective.
 

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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John Funk said:
SaintWaldo said:
Because:

A.) Natal at least had something we could call it by; PSN motion controller did not, it was interesting to muse about.

B.) The Xbox 360 has never had an identity crisis like the PS3.

C.) Natal at least *looks* different from the Wiimote. Meanwhile, the difference in advertising here [http://www.gamesradar.com/f/quiz-wiimote-or-playstation-move/a-2010031018145354069]...?

D.) Take. The fanboy blinders. Off. And while you're at it, take the tinfoil hat off, too. You're taking this way too personally, dude.

Every single one of us here in the Escapist offices bought a PS3 with their own hard cash. We wouldn't have done this if we didn't think the machine was pretty cool in a lot of ways. You're an idiot if you think we're all members of a global conspiracy dedicated to undermine Sony.
This is bizarre.

a) Seeing as both devices were still referred to as X's motion device this bears little weight, but good point for you I suppose.

b) No, it's just stapled on features like a catwalk model, much better.

c) Wow - so the motion capture bar bears no resemblance to the Wii's?

d) I think you jumping to the defence of the 360 need to take the blinders off. "Fanboy" is a desperate insult for someone running low on argument.

I just assumed Susan auto submitted this, but with the staff rallying in to defend I'm becoming more and more surprised.

And before you blurt "fanboy" to me, I maintain the attitude that this generation suffers from copying in general - not just Sony.
 

SnipErlite

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Ahhhh it's true Sony are not quite so clever in the image department.

Pity, since PS3 is a damn good console. Good article.
 

Susan Arendt

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mrx19869 said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....
I find that you (and Sony's marketing) forget to mention other great features the PS3 has going for it.
This isn't an article about the PS3's merits. This is about how Sony can't seem to focus on a message for its console. The average consumer is left with little to latch onto, because Sony's marketing is so scattershot. Ergo, the PS3's various plusses, which are many, aren't really relevant. I say the PS3 is great, which is is. Why do I need to go into more detail than that?

Oh, and to address folks saying the 360 plays copycat, too...well, yes, absolutely it does, and I never claimed otherwise. To say that Sony's marketing is failing isn't saying that Microsoft's is succeeding. I'm not praising Microsoft simply because I'm not saying "yeah, they suck, too." This article is in response to a Sony trailer, and addresses Sony's apparent lack of understanding of its own product. Microsoft really isn't relevant for that discussion. If/when Microsoft releases a commercial for Natal that is practically a shot-for-shot copy of a Wii commercial, you can be sure I'll mention it.
 

Xersues

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They've said time and time again that the PS3 is for "Anyone with electricity". There's a bit of everything there. Hardcore/casual/softcore/movies/streaming/videos/music, its there :p

Its like saying Microsoft Windows has an identity crisis. Because not only does it do games... its a server, and has productivity tools.... and does internet... I mean whose it for!??!

Sorry but this article is terrible. Not that its poorly written. It just doesn't seem to identify that it was more of an expensive console that did more than just be a console when it first launched and has since then gotten out of the "toy" market that the 360 and Wii seem to be in. I'd agree that its been a hell of a marketing challenge for them to make up their mind, but now I think they finally have it centered. But the Playstation has always had a message "For anyone with electricity".
 

mrx19869

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Logan Westbrook said:
mrx19869 said:
Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
A well informed counter statement to a poor article is "taking it personally"?
Nope, but an angry rant about a good article is.
but this isnt a good article...
If you say so, but your comments about the Wii earlier suggest that you're less than objective.
you are correct in saying that i am less than objective, but everyone need to admit that the wii was rushed, and could have started out of the gate a whole lot better, now sony is stepping up to the game and they are gonna do it right.

my problem with this article is that how can the PS3 have an identity crisis when they are saying that

"it does everything" and it does... everything
 

StriderShinryu

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Wow.. pro Sony fanboys unite.

You do realize you're missing the entire point of the column, right? The column clearly isn't about "PS3 suxxorz!!1!" or "I have no idea what the PS3 is *head explodes*" The column is about Sony's marketing strategies and, to some extent, their development plans... and it's not really talking about those who are generally in the know (aka those who read and post on The Escapist).

As for why a breakdown of MS's 360 marketing history and their positioning of Natal hasn't been included, I'm guessing it's because the 360 hasn't seen it's first real push yet. We don't even know if it's going to be called Natal. If MS has the same issues as Sony does when it makes the big push, then of course they should be examined in the same way (though the OP is right in saying that MS has had a more generally cohesive marketing push for the 360 to this point).
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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SaintWaldo said:
In fact, one might point out that claiming a speaker is emotional (or "taking this personally") is a way of deflecting an otherwise valid line of argument for which one can't find a suitable defense. I'm completely dispassionate and have yet to see any words to dispute my points.
That's because they don't have a counter, and have to rely on baseless "mud slinging" to try to devalueyour criticism.

Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
A well informed counter statement to a poor article is "taking it personally"?
Nope, but an angry rant about a good article is.
Show me the inflection of anger in Waldo's post. I certainly missed it, maybe you're projecting this emotion in a vain attempt of defence?

Further, this isn't a good article. Waldo's (with less editing than Susan's) would suit the Featured Content better.
 

SaintWaldo

Interzone Vagabond
Jun 10, 2008
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John Funk said:
D.) Take. The fanboy blinders. Off. And while you're at it, take the tinfoil hat off, too. You're taking this way too personally, dude.

Every single one of us here in the Escapist offices bought a PS3 with their own hard cash. We wouldn't have done this if we didn't think the machine was pretty cool in a lot of ways. You're an idiot if you think we're all members of a global conspiracy dedicated to undermine Sony.
Sir, please stop the name calling. Note also that I never claimed a conspiracy. Note that I also know that Susan isn't a PS3 hater. Note that not everyone claiming a perceivable bias is calling for heads to roll or for the Bastille to be stormed.

I'm not speaking to a conspiracy. I'm speaking to hidden, suppressed, possibly unconscious bias. It's a very different thing. I'm not claiming anyone at the Escapist has taken money from MS to put a fix in. I'm saying, it's been my impression, over the entire course of the PS3's history, that the western press has been overwhelmingly hyper-critical of Sony. It's also been my contention that this is due to many factors (cultural, linguistic, geographic), so that the ones who participate in transporting the bias aren't necessarily to blame for the action.

But it is there, and in my eyes, as a bias, it should be revealed and spoken to if we are to be honest about our own culture. And it is a reasonable impression that there are some jingoistic forces at work in the US gaming culture (and the culture at large, sure) that I'd prefer to face up front rather than allow to continue unremarked.

You call me a fanboy (and intimate that I may be an an idiot); I've never hidden the fact that I prefer Sony. I've also never spoken to others as though their choice of console was incorrect or revealed some lack of anything in their person or character. Maybe you shouldn't react so strongly to criticism if you'd like to avoid a few choice label of your own.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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StriderShinryu said:
Wow.. pro Sony fanboys unite.

You do realize you're missing the entire point of the column, right? The column clearly isn't about "PS3 suxxorz!!1!" or "I have no idea what the PS3 is *head explodes*" The column is about Sony's marketing strategies and, to some extent, their development plans... and it's not really talking about those who are generally in the know (aka those who read and post on The Escapist).

As for why a breakdown of MS's 360 marketing history and their positioning of Natal hasn't been included, I'm guessing it's because the 360 hasn't seen it's first real push yet. We don't even know if it's going to be called Natal. If MS has the same issues as Sony does when it makes the big push, then of course they should be examined in the same way (though the OP is right in saying that MS has had a more generally cohesive marketing push for the 360 to this point).
Thanks...glad to know someone got the point.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....
I find that you (and Sony's marketing) forget to mention other great features the PS3 has going for it.
This isn't an article about the PS3's merits. This is about how Sony can't seem to focus on a message for its console. The average consumer is left with little to latch onto, because Sony's marketing is so scattershot. Ergo, the PS3's various plusses, which are many, aren't really relevant. I say the PS3 is great, which is is. Why do I need to go into more detail than that?

Oh, and to address folks saying the 360 plays copycat, too...well, yes, absolutely it does, and I never claimed otherwise. To say that Sony's marketing is failing isn't saying that Microsoft's is succeeding. I'm not praising Microsoft simply because I'm not saying "yeah, they suck, too." This article is in response to a Sony trailer, and addresses Sony's apparent lack of understanding of its own product. Microsoft really isn't relevant for that discussion. If/when Microsoft releases a commercial for Natal that is practically a shot-for-shot copy of a Wii commercial, you can be sure I'll mention it.
If a trailer that may or may not coincidentally bear a resemblance to another (bearing in mind they are advertising similar items) says to you that the console is having an identity crisis, makes me understand your view even less.

When different genre game trailers come out, are all consoles having an identity crisis?
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
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Random Bobcat said:
This is bizarre.

a) Seeing as both devices were still referred to as X's motion device this bears little weight, but good point for you I suppose.

b) No, it's just stapled on features like a catwalk model, much better.

c) Wow - so the motion capture bar bears no resemblance to the Wii's?

d) I think you jumping to the defence of the 360 need to take the blinders off. "Fanboy" is a desperate insult for someone running low on argument.

I just assumed Susan auto submitted this, but with the staff rallying in to defend I'm becoming more and more surprised.

And before you blurt "fanboy" to me, I maintain the attitude that this generation suffers from copying in general - not just Sony.
A.) That was the official title; both Natal and Arc/Gem/Wand/whatever were working titles. When Natal reveals its official title, we'll start calling it that.

B.) I think that in terms of marketing strategy, it is better, actually. Microsoft marketed the 360 as a gaming machine from the get-go, a gaming machine with a bunch of peripherals that people may or may not have cared about (or were later rendered obsolete, like the HDDVD addon). As Susan makes the point, Sony marketed the PS3 as a gaming machine second, which probably made it harder to catch on.

We're not talking about from a pure quality standpoint, we're talking about from a marketing one. That's an important distinction to make. MS was "Oh, we're a gaming machine! But we've got these little trinkets and features, too." Sony was "Hey, we do all of this stuff, NON-GAMERS will want to buy our PS3 for the Blu-Ray and the Home Media and... well, okay, yeah, it plays games too I guess."

C.) Has the motion capture bar ever been featured prominently in Wii advertising? No. The image that comes to mind is the Wii remote and the Nunchuck, and the way people interact with Move is identical to how they interact with MotionPlus (roughly, let's not split hairs here). Click on the link and tell me you can tell the difference between the two.

D.) I'm ... not defending the 360. What did I say that was in any way defending the Xbox 360? Saying that the Xbox never had quite the identity crisis of the PS3 is not a defense, it's pretty obvious.

I'm attacking the persecution complex of PS3 fanboys who think that everybody is out to get them and there is a coordinate attempt to undermine Sony. And whose kneejerk reaction is to shout NO YOU'RE WRONG to a well-reasoned article that is more about Sony's failing in presentation than about the merits of the actual console.
 

shadow skill

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They do have a message however, "It only does everything." whether that message is good is another question. They already had a motion controller in the system at launch so trying to improve on the functionality by creating a controller that works isn't a bad thing. The target audience is the consumer that wants a device that does more than the 360/wii without having to buy two or three different devices.
 

mrx19869

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Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....
I find that you (and Sony's marketing) forget to mention other great features the PS3 has going for it.
This isn't an article about the PS3's merits. This is about how Sony can't seem to focus on a message for its console. The average consumer is left with little to latch onto, because Sony's marketing is so scattershot. Ergo, the PS3's various plusses, which are many, aren't really relevant. I say the PS3 is great, which is is. Why do I need to go into more detail than that?
The message has to change because the people buying the ps3 are different now than they were 4 years ago. The people who purchased the ps3 the day it came out like me (waited 3 days in a tent with my friends for it) we knew everything about it, they did not have to market it, they didnt even have to put a picture on the box for me.

now skip to today, the best way sony saw to market the PS3 was to simply state " it does everything" also they have a great website that is easy to use, and explains all the features ,
i guess my question is now what does your statement "marketing is so scattereshot" refer to.. am i correct to assume you are talking about commercials?
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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Susan Arendt said:
Oh, and to address folks saying the 360 plays copycat, too...well, yes, absolutely it does, and I never claimed otherwise. To say that Sony's marketing is failing isn't saying that Microsoft's is succeeding. I'm not praising Microsoft simply because I'm not saying "yeah, they suck, too." This article is in response to a Sony trailer, and addresses Sony's apparent lack of understanding of its own product. Microsoft really isn't relevant for that discussion. If/when Microsoft releases a commercial for Natal that is practically a shot-for-shot copy of a Wii commercial, you can be sure I'll mention it.
Ok, that's all fine, but when did we get an article that dwelt on the long term ramifications of XBox branding when it did a shot-for-shot ripoff off Miis? WE DIDN'T. That's what people like me are talking about. Sony gets a concern troll piece about it's direction, but MS NEVER DOES. If you'd like to link to the article you feel treats MS or Nintendo with the same "concern from a real fan of the platform", that would go MILES toward putting any impression of (possibly unconscious) bias to rest.
 

Low Key

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Don't bank on Sony making motion control just for Americans. Microsoft pretty much owns the "hardcore" console market in America, but they are almost nonexistent in Japan. The PSP has done fairly well holding it own against the DS in the land of the rising sun, so Sony is hoping with their take on motion controls and much, much, much better graphics to fight the Wii directly. With the latest price cuts, they might actually gain some substantial ground.
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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100% dead on. The ps3 was not only released last, had the glorious $600 price tag, looked like a babylon 5 prop, and had no real exclusives outside of MGS whose reputation was thoroughly tarnished by MGS2.

The PS2 was really the perfect storm. It came out with the DVD and with the next console generation. Even the weak (except SSX) launch was forgivable because the DVD capability made up for it.

The gap between VHS and DVD is remarkable, but the gap between DVD and Blu-Ray isn't nearly as pronounced. Particularly if you take into account there weren't very many hi-def televisions when the thing was released. And even hi-def gamer households probably had a 360 because Microsoft's year head start.

The ps3 slim is a much better value proposition but really it is a case of too little too late. If the slim was the launch system then I think the 7th generation would be a closer contest than it currently is.

That said if I had to choose current version xbox and ps3 I would get ps3 in a heartbeat. The system just looks better designed built. The xbox reminds me of jury-rigged computer work that you hope works. And it sounds like a jet engine.

Sony could convert me if they come out with a Devil May Cry, or Ninja Gaiden with true motion controls, not the sloppiness of Twilight Princess random flailing. A first person MGS where you aim with the pointer like in Metroid.

Good luck Sony, you certainly need it.
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
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Random Bobcat said:
c) Wow - so the motion capture bar bears no resemblance to the Wii's?
Superficially, yes, but the tech behind it is very, very different. The sensor bar is essentially a just a reference point for the Wii remote, and all it does it emit two points of IR light. Natal, on the other hand, has two cameras built into it to position a player and track their movements.

mrx19869 said:
my problem with this article is that how can the PS3 have an identity crisis when they are saying that

"it does everything" and it does... everything
That's what the article is talking about, that Sony doesn't have a clear idea of what it wants to PS3 to be. Part of the reason that the Kevin Butler were so well received is that it seemed like Sony had finally decided how it was going to market the PS3, and had made a really good job of it. But now it seems Sony has a new angle for the PS3, one that eschews very endearing Mr Butler. I don't know if you've seen the trailer for Move, but it makes the PS3 look so much like the Wii it's like they were separated at birth.

The conversation isn't about what the PS3 can actually do - everyone on the Escapist staff is well aware of how good a machine it is - it's about how Sony is communicating that message, and an enduring characteristic of Sony's handling of the PS3 is inconsistent marketing.
 

mrx19869

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rembrandtqeinstein" post="6.180282.5286698 said:
100% dead on. The ps3 was not only released last, had the glorious $600 price tag/quote]

yeah but how much money has xbox360 users payed since launch to get online and play with your friends? It seems like i have spent less on my ps3 5 years down the road because i payed a higher price tag up front.
 

Xersues

DRM-free or give me death!
Dec 11, 2009
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I really don't see any crazy bias here, I just see an article by some one that doesn't get or like Sony's marketing strategy. Susan does a lot of good PS3 reviews, and she seems to enjoy the system a lot.

Again, its just her opinion. I don't like the article because I think the PS3 has quite the strong identity, which I can ask people around me that are NOT gamers, much like her "Average Joe" person and they all tell me the same thing: "Powerful, blu-ray player, best graphics, entertainment system." Again these are people that don't even have friends that play on the 360, but have gotten into the PS3 because it seemed like the least "toyish" to them. This isn't a good enough sample, but its pretty much just as good anecdotal opinion that was presented in the article.

It seems to present crisis in marketing for no reason and barely reports any news. Its pure opinion. That's why I don't like the article. *shrug* Nothing against Susan, John, or Escapist. Can't always write winners I guess. But tomorrow, I'm sure I'll be happy as ever reading something else you all wrote.
 

shadow skill

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SaintWaldo said:
Susan Arendt said:
Oh, and to address folks saying the 360 plays copycat, too...well, yes, absolutely it does, and I never claimed otherwise. To say that Sony's marketing is failing isn't saying that Microsoft's is succeeding. I'm not praising Microsoft simply because I'm not saying "yeah, they suck, too." This article is in response to a Sony trailer, and addresses Sony's apparent lack of understanding of its own product. Microsoft really isn't relevant for that discussion. If/when Microsoft releases a commercial for Natal that is practically a shot-for-shot copy of a Wii commercial, you can be sure I'll mention it.
Ok, that's all fine, but when did we get an article that dwelt on the long term ramifications of XBox branding when it did a shot-for-shot ripoff off Miis? WE DIDN'T. That's what people like me are talking about. Sony gets a concern troll piece about it's direction, but MS NEVER DOES. If you'd like to link to the article you feel treats MS or Nintendo with the same "concern from a real fan of the platform", that would go MILES toward putting any impression of bias to rest.
There could be ten articles a day on how MS is trying so hard to market to JRPG fans when we all know damn well that, that is a dead end. Heck the early indication is that even FF13 isn't going to do that great on the 360. In my mind Microsoft's Natal push is more deserving of this type of article because the game library doesn't easily lend itself to the "casual" image. Sony's isn't all that great either, but it is markedly better than that of Microsoft's.

I'm interested in what Sony can do with Move because if they can get the kind of games I like to play to work with the system as well as a traditional controller I can actually play things like Killzone 2 without having to worry about being able to aim since the motion controller isn't going to be inherently biased towards right handed individuals. Secondly it does not have the potential problem of biasing games towards people who can stand/walk unlike Natal.
 

Susan Arendt

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Jan 9, 2007
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John Funk said:
A.) That was the official title; both Natal and Arc/Gem/Wand/whatever were working titles. When Natal reveals its official title, we'll start calling it that.
Seeing as Susan's argument was based on "The Avergae Joe", and seeing as how the Average Joe will not even know of these development working titles, I fail to see your point.

If anything, when Microsoft change their name from Natal (if they do) they will infer a greater confusion to your "Average Joe". As time ticks on Natal is becoming the accepted name, whereas Sony clearly had theirs as a codename only. As many games do as well.

John Funk said:
B.) I think that in terms of marketing strategy, it is better, actually. Microsoft marketed the 360 as a gaming machine from the get-go, a gaming machine with a bunch of peripherals that people may or may not have cared about (or were later rendered obsolete, like the HDDVD addon). As Susan makes the point, Sony marketed the PS3 as a gaming machine second, which probably made it harder to catch on.

We're not talking about from a pure quality standpoint, we're talking about from a marketing one. That's an important distinction to make. MS was "Oh, we're a gaming machine! But we've got these little trinkets and features, too." Sony was "Hey, we do all of this stuff, NON-GAMERS will want to buy our PS3 for the Blu-Ray and the Home Media and... well, okay, yeah, it plays games too I guess."
In keeping with the times, that was the right thing to do - the PS2 was bought by a lot of consumers as it doubled as a DVD player - cheap at that. If anything Sony had more of an assertion of what they wanted it to be, instead they evolved their outlook when that aim wasn't met by the consumer base.

360 already played DVDs, Sony wanted to try and promote another media device - as they did with UMDs and obviously Betamax also (for the quickest examples). Sometimes they are ahead of themselves, or make poor licensing choices and that's why it fails. I'd rather a failed pioneer than a succesful sheep however.

The Japanese are well into streamlining - which the PS3 offered perfectly. Big surprise a Japanese company is well on cue with Japanese needs.

John Funk said:
C.) Has the motion capture bar ever been featured prominently in Wii advertising? No. The image that comes to mind is the Wii remote and the Nunchuck, and the way people interact with Move is identical to how they interact with MotionPlus (roughly, let's not split hairs here). Click on the link and tell me you can tell the difference between the two.
Apperance wise yes I can. The Wii has a massive building block on the bottom, whereas Sony has glowing orb. The "Average Joe" will notice this.

Natal is faceless, you see a picture of it on the box and the "Average Joe" won't care. It looks like a slab. The Move has much more of a presence - a form of identity if you will.

John Funk said:
D.) I'm ... not defending the 360. What did I say that was in any way defending the Xbox 360? Saying that the Xbox never had quite the identity crisis of the PS3 is not a defense, it's pretty obvious.
It depends how you're looking at it.

John Funk said:
I'm attacking the persecution complex of PS3 fanboys who think that everybody is out to get them and there is a coordinate attempt to undermine Sony. And whose kneejerk reaction is to shout NO YOU'RE WRONG to a well-reasoned article that is more about Sony's failing in presentation than about the merits of the actual console.
I think you're seeing anger as your own kneejerk response to an expectation of it. Informed criticims doesn't mean anger, as a journalist I would think you would be above such quick assumptions.
 

ALLxGHILLIEDxUP

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SaintWaldo said:
Logan Westbrook said:
SaintWaldo said:
You seem to be taking this rather personally, and you really shouldn't.
You seem to be assigning degrees to my thoughts, and you really shouldn't. Refute my argument or don't, but please don't assign emotion to a rational discussion.

In fact, one might point out that claiming a speaker is emotional (or "taking this personally") is a way of deflecting an otherwise valid line of argument for which one can't find a suitable defense. I'm completely dispassionate and have yet to see any words to dispute my points.

I'm sure you only meant to ask if I was emotional, and not attempt to dismiss or color my comment. I'm not.
ooo I like this guy, he actually knows how to have a rational argument.

OT: The PS3 still knows who it is, it's simply broadening it's consumer base. A completely logical move from a business stand point.
 

SaintWaldo

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Jun 10, 2008
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Logan Westbrook said:
SaintWaldo said:
Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
A well informed counter statement to a poor article is "taking it personally"?
Nope, but an angry rant about a good article is.
Again, I'm not angry.
Well, you sound like you are, so you might want to rein that in.
Well, I'm not. Since we seem to be exchanging advice, you might want to rein in your assignments of emotion to pieces of internet text.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
7,222
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Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
c) Wow - so the motion capture bar bears no resemblance to the Wii's?
Superficially, yes, but the tech behind it is very, very different. The sensor bar is essentially a just a reference point for the Wii remote, and all it does it emit two points of IR light. Natal, on the other hand, has two cameras built into it to position a player and track their movements.
Right, so the "Average Joe" will know of the tech will he?

To the casual observer, they do exactly the same thing, except one is pointy hands and one is pointy remote.

Remember "Average" is the cornerstone of Susan's argument - don't mess that up now .

Logan Westbrook said:
Well, you sound like you are, so you might want to rein that in.
Unprofessional to see the least, very weak projection of emotion as a response when a sensible counter illstration eludes you.

Perhaps you might want to rein yourself in, you're looking foolish with such statements.
 

mrx19869

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Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
c) Wow - so the motion capture bar bears no resemblance to the Wii's?
Superficially, yes, but the tech behind it is very, very different. The sensor bar is essentially a just a reference point for the Wii remote, and all it does it emit two points of IR light. Natal, on the other hand, has two cameras built into it to position a player and track their movements.

mrx19869 said:
my problem with this article is that how can the PS3 have an identity crisis when they are saying that

"it does everything" and it does... everything
That's what the article is talking about, that Sony doesn't have a clear idea of what it wants to PS3 to be. Part of the reason that the Kevin Butler were so well received is that it seemed like Sony had finally decided how it was going to market the PS3, and had made a really good job of it. But now it seems Sony has a new angle for the PS3, one that eschews very endearing Mr Butler. I don't know if you've seen the trailer for Move, but it makes the PS3 look so much like the Wii it's like they were separated at birth.

The conversation isn't about what the PS3 can actually do - everyone on the Escapist staff is well aware of how good a machine it is - it's about how Sony is communicating that message, and an enduring characteristic of Sony's handling of the PS3 is inconsistent marketing.
since we are talking about the commercials, i think its important to realize that a commercial is only meant to spark the interest of the consumer, not to tell the consumer about everything the product can do in 30 seconds, i believe that you mistake sony's " marketing problems" with what the real problem is.

the consumer has gotten stupid, lazy, and wants to be feed all the info, i see no difference in the way the PS3 was marketed with how cars are marketed. the show you the product something it does, all flashey, etc etec, then its the consumers jobs to do independent research. Everything the PS3 can do is on the box, their website, and other websites.

so i believe this article just takes aways from what the real problem is..
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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It's not really an identity crisis - that suggests there is a problem. If Move is any good then what the PS3 is is a master of home entertainment, proving HD films, high quality gaming, motion controls etc.
What would have made the article more accurate is if you said Joe Average walks into the store, he buys the wii for motion control; he buys the 360 for quick gaming, or he buys the PS3 for both of them and more.
It's like would you buy a fridge, a freezer, or a fridge freezer which is bigger than the other two, and has an ice dispenser.

I can't see why the console can't be for everyone - it makes no sense. The PS3 is the most powerful of the three, so surely if it wanted to do gaming, it could do it well, and if it wanted to do motion controls, it could do that as well.

I think what we are seeing here is the transition between game console and media centre. The PS3 is less of a game console and more of a media centre which can do everything, but to a high standard. So not jack of all trades, master of none, but instead what we potentially have is a master of all trades. Or a monopoly. Whichever way you want to see it.

Think is even if it has a so called identity crisis, what's wrong with that? The console is going to remain the same, and the same high standard of games are going to be produced, so other than nonsensical ramblings, essentially the customer doesn't loose out, so what's there to hate?
 

SaintWaldo

Interzone Vagabond
Jun 10, 2008
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Random Bobcat said:
John Funk said:
I'm attacking the persecution complex of PS3 fanboys who think that everybody is out to get them and there is a coordinate attempt to undermine Sony. And whose kneejerk reaction is to shout NO YOU'RE WRONG to a well-reasoned article that is more about Sony's failing in presentation than about the merits of the actual console.
I think you're seeing anger as your own kneejerk response to an expectation of it. Informed criticims doesn't mean anger, as a journalist I would think you would be above such quick assumptions.
This, Right here. This is what every Escapist employee in this thread should internalize.
 

Aura Guardian

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Hubilub said:
Edit: Wait, I just came up with a reason as to why the Average Joe should by a PS3.

Because of Kevin Butler.
It might be the ONLY reason why I would buy it. However...Sony has ripped me of a lot of times. So I still cannot see myself owning a Sony product.
 

Nuke_em_05

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I don't know if I want to join the epic battle of strawman vs ad hominem here...

For those in the know, we know what the PS3 is. As far as it's marketing (you know, what they use to get people not "in the know" in... the know), it does seem a little off.

You know?
 

Guy32

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Sony is and has been in an awful position since the PS3s release. It's capable of so much, but really the only way to let people know how much it can do is to point out all the things that the other systems can't, which would make Sony look like total dicks.
 

shadow skill

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Does anyone question the Iphone commercials that bring up things that have nothing to do with telecommunications? No one states that the Iphone has an identity crisis whenever one of these commercials comes out because everyone (In the press in particular.) understands that smartphones like the Iphone are intended to be swiss army knife type devices. Sony has actually been rather consistent in marketing (Albeit poorly.) the Playstation 3 as a swiss army knife console. The only people who have not noticed this are the gaming press. * They assume that they are the only market that Sony is targeting with the device. The reality of the situation does not reflect this belief. That isn't to say that gamers are the biggest target audience for this device however.

*Should I change that "are" to is?
 

rembrandtqeinstein

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Sep 4, 2009
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mrx19869 said:
rembrandtqeinstein said:
100% dead on. The ps3 was not only released last, had the glorious $600 price tag/quote]

yeah but how much money has xbox360 users payed since launch to get online and play with your friends? It seems like i have spent less on my ps3 5 years down the road because i payed a higher price tag up front.
Your point is moot, people who get a console to play online with friends WILL get a 360 just because Live is so much more advanced and the overall community is massively larger. Disclaimer, this only applies to north america.
 
Apr 24, 2008
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Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....
I find that you (and Sony's marketing) forget to mention other great features the PS3 has going for it.
This isn't an article about the PS3's merits. This is about how Sony can't seem to focus on a message for its console. The average consumer is left with little to latch onto, because Sony's marketing is so scattershot. Ergo, the PS3's various plusses, which are many, aren't really relevant. I say the PS3 is great, which is is. Why do I need to go into more detail than that?

Oh, and to address folks saying the 360 plays copycat, too...well, yes, absolutely it does, and I never claimed otherwise. To say that Sony's marketing is failing isn't saying that Microsoft's is succeeding. I'm not praising Microsoft simply because I'm not saying "yeah, they suck, too." This article is in response to a Sony trailer, and addresses Sony's apparent lack of understanding of its own product. Microsoft really isn't relevant for that discussion. If/when Microsoft releases a commercial for Natal that is practically a shot-for-shot copy of a Wii commercial, you can be sure I'll mention it.
Well obviously you can't say something about the ps3 without infering something about the 360...right?...

I enjoyed your article. I don't begrudge the blatent copy of design(it's a good idea, and I think it's really about who does it best...rather than who did it first), but the advert is uncannily like Nintendo's, it made me chuckle. I was hoping that they would focus the tech on games with depth, something that I had been hoping would happen ever since I first played a wii. The potential is there, it could be great if they don't just make a string of mini-game compilations(like wii sports)and then abandon it.

Give me a deep(and bloody)sword fighting game using this tech, and I'll be a very happy gamer...I don't need to play ping pong and golf anymore...
 

John Funk

U.N. Owen Was Him?
Dec 20, 2005
20,364
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Random Bobcat said:
I think you're seeing anger as your own kneejerk response to an expectation of it. Informed criticims doesn't mean anger, as a journalist I would think you would be above such quick assumptions.
Nobody's angry here - I'm certainly not.

If they were informed criticisms, then you might have a point. I honestly don't think they are.

Sony makes mistakes. Microsoft makes mistakes. Nintendo makes mistakes. Valve makes mistakes. Konami, Blizzard, Squeenix, etc - they all make mistakes. Calling a company out on what we perceive as a potential mistake is not evidence of bias.

SaintWaldo said:
You call me a fanboy (and intimate that I may be an an idiot); I've never hidden the fact that I prefer Sony. I've also never spoken to others as though their choice of console was incorrect or revealed some lack of anything in their person or character. Maybe you shouldn't react so strongly to criticism if you'd like to avoid a few choice label of your own.
I'm not saying that you are an idiot. I'm saying that if you - generic you, if ANYBODY - thinks there's a conspiracy, then that's idiocy plain and simple.
 

AceDiamond

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I think the PS3's problem is that Sony's tried to use it to be a lot of things. For example they were hoping it would help catapult Blu-Ray into overtaking DVD as a format (it seemed anyway). This did not pan out, now they're trying to emulate the success of their competition in order to salvage something (and also prove that it can do everything it needs to do) but between the PS3 identity crisis and Sony's habit of making shit up in an attempt to look good which often results in hypocrisy on their part (force feedback, motion control, etc.), customer confidence probably is nowhere near where it was during the halcyon days of the PS2.
 

mrx19869

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rembrandtqeinstein said:
mrx19869 said:
rembrandtqeinstein said:
100% dead on. The ps3 was not only released last, had the glorious $600 price tag/quote]

yeah but how much money has xbox360 users payed since launch to get online and play with your friends? It seems like i have spent less on my ps3 5 years down the road because i payed a higher price tag up front.
Your point is moot, people who get a console to play online with friends WILL get a 360 just because Live is so much more advanced and the overall community is massively larger. Disclaimer, this only applies to north america.
i own an xbox360 as well, i find that with the larger community all i get is more crap...
 

Logan Westbrook

Transform, Roll Out, Etc
Feb 21, 2008
17,672
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Random Bobcat said:
Unprofessional to see the least, very weak projection of emotion as a response when a sensible counter illstration eludes you.

Perhaps you might want to rein yourself in, you're looking foolish with such statements.
Yes, it's me who looks foolish. Definitely.

As for a rebuttal, Waldo's main complaint seems to be that the PS3 gets an unfair rap from gaming journalists, which may or may not be true, but doesn't really have a great deal to do with the article; he's just using it as a jumping off point for a rant about journalistic bias.

Does he have a point? Maybe, maybe not, but that's not what this article is about.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
7,222
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John Funk said:
Nobody's angry here - I'm certainly not.

If they were informed criticisms, then you might have a point. I honestly don't think they are.

Sony makes mistakes. Microsoft makes mistakes. Nintendo makes mistakes. Valve makes mistakes. Konami, Blizzard, Squeenix, etc - they all make mistakes. Calling a company out on what we perceive as a potential mistake is not evidence of bias.
I'm glad you see that, Logan's insightful comments certainly don't aid matters.

I think Waldo's comments were bang on, certainly of higher calibre than Susan's in any case.

No it isn't, I look forward to seeing your future articles arguing baseless reasoning for each of the other consoles as well.
 

shadow skill

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Oct 12, 2007
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Logan Westbrook said:
Random Bobcat said:
Unprofessional to see the least, very weak projection of emotion as a response when a sensible counter illstration eludes you.

Perhaps you might want to rein yourself in, you're looking foolish with such statements.
Yes, it's me who looks foolish. Definitely.

As for a rebuttal, Waldo's main complaint seems to be that the PS3 gets an unfair rap from gaming journalists, which may or may not be true, but doesn't really have a great deal to do with the article; he's just using it as a jumping off point for a rant about journalistic bias.

Does he have a point? Maybe, maybe not, but that's not what this article is about.
So it is wrong to point out that an article (Which isn't really very well thought out because the basic premise is fundamentally flawed.) fits into a larger pattern with respect to coverage related to the Playstation 3?
 

Welshlad

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Mar 11, 2010
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Just an extra point of view from somebody I think Sony were targetting in their initial launch...

I have a PS3 (along with a PSP), also a Wii and my housemate has a 360. I chose the PS3 for the Blu-ray player, since then I've found the extra home entertainment functionality to be the best thing about it. I've got a Shuttle PC upstairs running a TVersity media server that plays directly onto my TV through the PS3. My PSP can connect up to this (and to BBC IPlayer) through the PS3 so I can watch TV and listen to my music on my PSP. The Blu-ray quality is great, up until recently it was about the same price as a dedicated player but had better firmware updates. Movies just look amazing.

Now, I admit I have a decent set games and I really enjoy them (God of War 3 is on pre-order as we speak), however I have a lot more Blu-rays and I don't think the PS3 would have survived on games alone. It's more expensive than the other consoles and the picture quality is a tiny bit better on the 360. By the same note, the 360 can only become more than a games console if you're willing to pay more for the extras than it would cost for a PS3.

So, there are three markets out there. If you want to just play games for an hour or so a week, get a Wii. If you want to just play games all day, get a 360. If you want to watch movies and play games all day, get a PS3.

Call me boring but when it comes to console wars, just get what you like the most and let the other guy do the same. As long as you enjoy yourselves, you both made the right choice.
 

mrdude2010

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SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?

Why was the press obsessed with Sony's motion controller name, and whether it was "exciting", but they've never asked MS to give us something other than the dev name?

I mean, come on, even the straw man in the article seems a bit out of bounds. Seriously, someone walks into a game store and we should believe they wouldn't be able to work out that the PS3 plays games? In my opinion, this so-called "identity crisis" is as much a factor of the (mostly western) press reaction as anything else. No, it doesn't matter that I'm a gamer. I was never confused about what I was buying. The people who I've recommended a PS3 to knew what they were getting (and so did the folks I recommended get a Wii or 360, BTW), a game machine that played the kind of games they wanted.

Where is the review of the XBox history? That machine seems a bit confused right now, as well. One example: they seem to have changed from "10 years is WAY too long for a console lifespan" to "well, you know, we think the XBox 360 will be around until 2015". THAT'S a reversal that has gone completely unnoticed by the western press. They have bought into Sony's lifespan plan. In fact, you can find Nintendo saying similar things about the lifespan of the Wii. Why isn't this as noteworthy as a retrospective of the PS3's marketing, and not the FIRST one at that, mind you? Just 2 years after the fact, XBox has been allowed to live down a 30% defect rate that bordered on fraud. But Sony is just CRAZY because 6 years ago they had a weird add. You see why that might seem a bit off-putting?

You see, it's news if it's new. We already know the early marketing was filled with hubris and silliness. That's not news. We also know ALL consoles are putting out motion controls, which in a regular world running on human logic means that none of them are confused about being gaming consoles that have motion controllers.

Why it's news for Sony, and apparently bad news from the tone of the write up, well, I guess that's wisdom for the US gaming press to create and deliver.

it's because everybody knows both the PS3 and XBOX360's motion controls are going to fizzle and die in a few months, so people are punish the PS3 for relentlessly advertising their motion controls
until they develop realistic feedback systems, gaming has been and forever will be controller based, and add ons like natal and ps3 motion are just to try to cash in on the unprecedented and undeserved success of the wii

also the gush of ps3 fanboy semen on this thread is starting to annoy me
 

bismarck55

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Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
 

smithy1234

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Sony needs to realize that they can't makes a game system that will be massively successful among a casual audience AND massively successful among a hardcore audience. It's trying to be some kind of mutated deformed child of the Wii and Xbox 360.

The PS3 beats the Wii in hardcore titles by a long shot, I have no issue with the Wii but you have to admit that it's aimed more at a casual audience. The Xbox 360 has an equal amount of hardcore games as the PS3 and there is large debate about which is the better console. This was a good standpoint for a while, the Wii took in the casual audience while the PS3 and Xbox 360 fought over the hardcore audience. Now, Sony has fucked it all up by trying to win over the casual audience (which is already firmly owned by the Wii) AND fight Microsoft for the hardcore audience.

This is a message for Sony "IN YOUR WILDEST DREAMS, YOU WILL NEVER WIN THE BATTLE FOR THE CASUAL GAMERS AND HARDCORE GAMERS!!! CHOOSE YOUR FIGHT AND STICK WITH IT!!!".
 

Pevva

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The PS3 is a ninja, why do you think it only came out in black for so long?

When it first came out you could justify buying it to your non-gamer girlfriend / wife by saying it's for Blu-Ray DVDs and photos. Later, with PayTV you could say you could run your TV through it.

Then it's in the house and your GF/wife has to use the controller to change channels and stuff, she is learning how to use it by stealth. Then BAM!! You spring Little Big Planet on her and suddenly you're both gaming.

Now it's a few years later, hopefully you're still with your GF/wife and starting to have some kids, so the PS3 steps up again with motion control to stop you getting a Wii ... Sony wants the PS3 to be the only console or multimedia device you need.
 

Fearzone

Boyz! Boyz! Boyz!
Dec 3, 2008
1,241
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When it sets its mind to it, the PS3 can do everything the Wii can do (once it has the motion controller), and everything the XBox360 can do, and then it can still do more besides. Nothing wrong with putting that message out there. Furthermore there is no sense in paiting itself into a corner.

When kids have to ask what a Wii or an Xbox is, the PS3 will still be around.
 

Mcface

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SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?

Why was the press obsessed with Sony's motion controller name, and whether it was "exciting", but they've never asked MS to give us something other than the dev name?

I mean, come on, even the straw man in the article seems a bit out of bounds. Seriously, someone walks into a game store and we should believe they wouldn't be able to work out that the PS3 plays games? In my opinion, this so-called "identity crisis" is as much a factor of the (mostly western) press reaction as anything else. No, it doesn't matter that I'm a gamer. I was never confused about what I was buying. The people who I've recommended a PS3 to knew what they were getting (and so did the folks I recommended get a Wii or 360, BTW), a game machine that played the kind of games they wanted.

Where is the review of the XBox history? That machine seems a bit confused right now, as well. One example: they seem to have changed from "10 years is WAY too long for a console lifespan" to "well, you know, we think the XBox 360 will be around until 2015". THAT'S a reversal that has gone completely unnoticed by the western press. They have bought into Sony's lifespan plan. In fact, you can find Nintendo saying similar things about the lifespan of the Wii. Why isn't this as noteworthy as a retrospective of the PS3's marketing, and not the FIRST one at that, mind you? Just 2 years after the fact, XBox has been allowed to live down a 30% defect rate that bordered on fraud. But Sony is just CRAZY because 6 years ago they had a weird add. You see why that might seem a bit off-putting?

You see, it's news if it's new. We already know the early marketing was filled with hubris and silliness. That's not news. We also know ALL consoles are putting out motion controls, which in a regular world running on human logic means that none of them are confused about being gaming consoles that have motion controllers.

Why it's news for Sony, and apparently bad news from the tone of the write up, well, I guess that's wisdom for the US gaming press to create and deliver.
Did you read the article?
Sony copied the Wii's controller to a T, and even ripped off the commericals.

While Natal has no controller, and really only has one thing in common, and that's that they somehow use your body other than to press buttons.

It's typical fanboy defense mechanism that snaps somewhere in your brain, when even the slightest bit of criticism is given towards your console of choice, it's instantly. "NO, THIS IS WRONG. THE OTHER CONSOLE IS WORSE, WHY DONT YOU MAKE FUN OF THEM?"
 

ace_of_something

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hrm. Interesting. My wife and I loves our PS3. It's played daily by at least one of us. I think they should market it to hip young childless couples. Though that would require more multiplayer games (multiplayer, NOT online)
 

Vaccine

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I think the PS3 is like a uneducated middle child, jack of all trades, master of none. The foundations for a great gaming system is there, but Sony made a lot of questionable choices during it's lifetime so far and fucked it more than they know.
 

shadow skill

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Oct 12, 2007
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Pevva said:
The PS3 is a ninja, why do you think it only came out in black for so long?

When it first came out you could justify buying it to your non-gamer girlfriend / wife by saying it's for Blu-Ray DVDs and photos. Later, with PayTV you could say you could run your TV through it.

Then it's in the house and your GF/wife has to use the controller to change channels and stuff, she is learning how to use it by stealth. Then BAM!! You spring Little Big Planet on her and suddenly you're both gaming.

Now it's a few years later, hopefully you're still with your GF/wife and starting to have some kids, so the PS3 steps up again with motion control to stop you getting a Wii ... Sony wants the PS3 to be the only console or multimedia device you need.
Good point. This has always been the overarching goal for the PS3. It was never targeted solely at gamers though they are a big part. Sony has never been as big into the "hardcore" market as Microsoft despite what some people may think. They have always straddled the middle of the road (Just look at the PSN store and some of their bigger past franchises if you don't believe me.) when it came to the markets they were trying to hit.

Mcface said:
SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?

Why was the press obsessed with Sony's motion controller name, and whether it was "exciting", but they've never asked MS to give us something other than the dev name?

I mean, come on, even the straw man in the article seems a bit out of bounds. Seriously, someone walks into a game store and we should believe they wouldn't be able to work out that the PS3 plays games? In my opinion, this so-called "identity crisis" is as much a factor of the (mostly western) press reaction as anything else. No, it doesn't matter that I'm a gamer. I was never confused about what I was buying. The people who I've recommended a PS3 to knew what they were getting (and so did the folks I recommended get a Wii or 360, BTW), a game machine that played the kind of games they wanted.

Where is the review of the XBox history? That machine seems a bit confused right now, as well. One example: they seem to have changed from "10 years is WAY too long for a console lifespan" to "well, you know, we think the XBox 360 will be around until 2015". THAT'S a reversal that has gone completely unnoticed by the western press. They have bought into Sony's lifespan plan. In fact, you can find Nintendo saying similar things about the lifespan of the Wii. Why isn't this as noteworthy as a retrospective of the PS3's marketing, and not the FIRST one at that, mind you? Just 2 years after the fact, XBox has been allowed to live down a 30% defect rate that bordered on fraud. But Sony is just CRAZY because 6 years ago they had a weird add. You see why that might seem a bit off-putting?

You see, it's news if it's new. We already know the early marketing was filled with hubris and silliness. That's not news. We also know ALL consoles are putting out motion controls, which in a regular world running on human logic means that none of them are confused about being gaming consoles that have motion controllers.

Why it's news for Sony, and apparently bad news from the tone of the write up, well, I guess that's wisdom for the US gaming press to create and deliver.
Did you read the article?
Sony copied the Wii's controller to a T, and even ripped off the commericals.

While Natal has no controller, and really only has one thing in common, and that's that they somehow use your body other than to press buttons.

It's typical fanboy defense mechanism that snaps somewhere in your brain, when even the slightest bit of criticism is given towards your console of choice, it's instantly. "NO, THIS IS WRONG. THE OTHER CONSOLE IS WORSE, WHY DONT YOU MAKE FUN OF THEM?"
Hmm Nintendo wasn't the first company to do motion controls you know. No one seems to be complaining that Microsoft "copied" the DC controller or that Microsoft "copied" the eyetoy for Natal.....

You sound like you are projecting your own "fanboy" reaction on to someone else.
 

mrx19869

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Jun 17, 2009
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i would be nice to get back on topic.....


the PS3 is not going through an identity crisis. it knows who it is.. its going to be everything.. that means

if you want to
play a intense game you can
play a not intecse game you can
play a game without a dualshock controller you can
play a game with a dualshock you can
watch a movie you can
watch a blue way movie you can
access the internet you can

sony marketing has stayed relatively the same, it has shown the features
now that it can do more there are new marketing...
 

mrx19869

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Jun 17, 2009
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ace_of_something said:
hrm. Interesting. My wife and I loves our PS3. It's played daily by at least one of us. I think they should market it to hip young childless couples. Though that would require more multiplayer games (multiplayer, NOT online)
thats not what they want to do, they want to let people know that if you want to do it, you can do it on the ps3, because the ps3 does eveything
 

DRD 1812

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I don't really want to get into the thick of the argument here, but can those lauding the "It only does everything" campaign really not see how that is bad marketing? If you tell someone that an object does everything they're going to react with confusion because "everything" by itself doesn't mean anything. In the end they have to take the time to explain what "everything" means to the viewer anyway.
A different example:
"The new Ford Vehicle, it only does everything."
"What does that mean?"
"Well, 'everything' means that it gets good gas mileage, has a lot of cargo space, seats four, and has a great stereo!"

What's more is when you claim something can do everything people will always find things it can't do.

"Can it go off-road? Can it drive around a race-track? Can use it to tow my boat? Can it..."
"Well no, it can't do 'everything-everything' only what we say is everything."

Then they have to keep adding things onto the device, like motion controls and who knows what else later down the line, to ensure it does actually do everything. Mind, that isn't really a bad thing, but the tone makes Sony sound like a late-night infomercial to me. I'm waiting for them to say, "but wait there's more!"
 

WhiteTigerShiro

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SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?
The difference is that Natal is actually a unique interface. Yeah it's motion control, but arguing that it's copying the Wii is like saying that the 360 controller is copying the Gamecube controller. They both have buttons, sure, but otherwise they're completely different. Meanwhile you have Sony's entry into the motion control market, and it's basically like they just re-skinned a Wiimote. It's classic Sony copying the good ideas because they're short on coming-up with their own.
 

shadow skill

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WhiteTigerShiro said:
SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?
The difference is that Natal is actually a unique interface. Yeah it's motion control, but arguing that it's copying the Wii is like saying that the 360 controller is copying the Gamecube controller. They both have buttons, sure, but otherwise they're completely different. Meanwhile you have Sony's entry into the motion control market, and it's basically like they just re-skinned a Wiimote. It's classic Sony copying the good ideas because they're short on coming-up with their own.
Which is why Nintendo wasn't the first group to do motion controllers? Which is why the Natal system (Using cameras for detecting motion.) has been worked on for years outside of Microsoft? RRRRRIIIIIGGGHTTT.....
 

mrx19869

New member
Jun 17, 2009
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DRD 1812 said:
I don't really want to get into the thick of the argument here, but can those lauding the "It only does everything" campaign really not see how that is bad marketing? If you tell someone that an object does everything they're going to react with confusion because "everything" by itself doesn't mean anything. In the end they have to take the time to explain what "everything" means to the viewer anyway.
A different example:
"The new Ford Vehicle, it only does everything."
"What does that mean?"
"Well, 'everything' means that it gets good gas mileage, has a lot of cargo space, seats four, and has a great stereo!"

What's more is when you claim something can do everything people will always find things it can't do.

"Can it go off-road? Can it drive around a race-track? Can use it to tow my boat? Can it..."
"Well no, it can't do 'everything-everything' only what we say is everything."

Then they have to keep adding things onto the device, like motion controls and who knows what else later down the line, to ensure it does actually do everything. Mind, that isn't really a bad thing, but the tone makes Sony sound like a late-night infomercial to me. I'm waiting for them to say, "but wait there's more!"
what sensible things can the PS3 not do?
do you buy a ford just by listing to the marketing? no you do independent research
again

marketing is only meant to push people in a direction. after that it is the consumers responsibility to find out what the product can or can not do

this article shifts the blame to sony when the blame is on the consumer.
 

ThisNewGuy

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Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
The thing is, "it only does everything" is a pretty clear message. I mean, I've never been turned off by the Iphone or the PC or the Microwave because they had too many settings. I mean, I can't speak for you, but personally, 5 to 10 functions on a machine isn't confusing to me especially when they are all under the umbrella of "entertainment." It's like getting confused at "movies" because it plays both sound AND video at the same time.
 

mrx19869

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ThisNewGuy said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
The thing is, "it only does everything" is a pretty clear message. I mean, I've never been turned off by the Iphone or the PC or the Microwave because they had too many settings. I mean, I can't speak for you, but personally, 5 to 10 functions on a machine isn't confusing to me especially when they are all under the umbrella of "entertainment." It's like getting confused at "movies" because it plays both sound AND video at the same time.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
for being a sensible person who understands the word everything...
 

shadow skill

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mrx19869 said:
ThisNewGuy said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
The thing is, "it only does everything" is a pretty clear message. I mean, I've never been turned off by the Iphone or the PC or the Microwave because they had too many settings. I mean, I can't speak for you, but personally, 5 to 10 functions on a machine isn't confusing to me especially when they are all under the umbrella of "entertainment." It's like getting confused at "movies" because it plays both sound AND video at the same time.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
for being a sensible person who understands the word everything...
The question should then be "is this the best method of advertising the product?" Some people are intimidated by having a bajillion options, I personally would love to see Sony just friggin list everything the PS3 does that the competition doesn't. However I know that doing that might not make a good commercial even if it is informative. Maybe something like the Motorolla Droid commercials would work. By the same token I would like to see Microsoft talk more about the 360's functionality in commercials.
 

rddj623

"Breathe Deep, Seek Peace"
Sep 28, 2009
644
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Your tagline for this one amused me :)

On another note I agree. It seems it's had a serious case of disassociative identity disorder. Each of it's new identities are separate and not very easily combined to focus in on what the machine truly is: the centerpiece for your entertainment. I have a friend who's job is to program special features on Blu-ray discs, he says the PS3 is still the top Blu-ray player on the market and one of the cheapest. The games I've played on another buddies are phenominal. Sure it won't play PS2 games anymore (darn you Sony!) but it does play dvd's and Blu-ray's which helps you not need to rebuy the sizable movie collection you already have. You can go online, and Netflix streams directly to the device for instant play of 10,000's of films and television shows. Let it find it's identity and prove itself on those merits!
 

mrx19869

New member
Jun 17, 2009
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shadow skill said:
mrx19869 said:
ThisNewGuy said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
The thing is, "it only does everything" is a pretty clear message. I mean, I've never been turned off by the Iphone or the PC or the Microwave because they had too many settings. I mean, I can't speak for you, but personally, 5 to 10 functions on a machine isn't confusing to me especially when they are all under the umbrella of "entertainment." It's like getting confused at "movies" because it plays both sound AND video at the same time.
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
for being a sensible person who understands the word everything...
The question should then be "is this the best method of advertising the product?" Some people are intimidated by having a bajillion options, I personally would love to see Sony just friggin list everything the PS3 does that the competition doesn't. However I know that doing that might not make a good commercial even if it is informative. Maybe something like the Motorolla Droid commercials would work. By the same token I would like to see Microsoft talk more about the 360's functionality in commercials.
yeah but at what point is it the consumers responsibility to do some independent research?
 

ThisNewGuy

New member
Apr 28, 2009
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shadow skill said:
The question should then be "is this the best method of advertising the product?" Some people are intimidated by having a bajillion options, I personally would love to see Sony just friggin list everything the PS3 does that the competition doesn't. However I know that doing that might not make a good commercial even if it is informative. Maybe something like the Motorolla Droid commercials would work. By the same token I would like to see Microsoft talk more about the 360's functionality in commercials.
I don't know. I've yet to see people criticize a product for being too flexible. I mean, when digital cameras started to take video, there was no backlash for it, and it didn't have a mass epidemic of world confusion. The point I'm trying to make is that motion control addition will only confuse people and muddle the message as much as a guitar hero controller did. I seriously don't think adding 1 peripheral controller would suddenly make everyone confused about the functionality of the PS3.

As far as "marketing," I'm not a marketing expert, and I'm sure neither is the author or most people in this forum, but in my opinion, showing multiple users easily using each functionality of the PS3 followed by the tagline of its function and followed by the interest of "it only does everything," doesn't sound confusing. Maybe if the author or people in the forum could cite a specific problematic ad where Sony was not exactly on message as to a specific functionality, then I could better understand exactly what is being criticized here as far as marketing goes.
 

mrx19869

New member
Jun 17, 2009
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rddj623 said:
Your tagline for this one amused me :)

On another note I agree. It seems it's had a serious case of disassociative identity disorder. Each of it's new identities are separate and not very easily combined to focus in on what the machine truly is: the centerpiece for your entertainment. I have a friend who's job is to program special features on Blu-ray discs, he says the PS3 is still the top Blu-ray player on the market and one of the cheapest. The games I've played on another buddies are phenominal. Sure it won't play PS2 games anymore (darn you Sony!) but it does play dvd's and Blu-ray's which helps you not need to rebuy the sizable movie collection you already have. You can go online, and Netflix streams directly to the device for instant play of 10,000's of films and television shows. Let it find it's identity and prove itself on those merits!
ans sony has said they are working on a software fix to that problem...
 

DRD 1812

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Mar 1, 2010
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what sensible things can the PS3 not do?
It's not really up to me, the potential consumer, to find out. Marketing is supposed to tell people what something does. What "sensible" means is up to individuals, but for the sake of this argument: Outside of browsing the internet, the PS3 cannot do a host of things that personal computers or cell phones can do. If you say that the PS3 doesn't need to or shouldn't do some of those things, then I'd refer you to their marketing. "It only does everything."

do you buy a ford just by listing to the marketing? no you do independent research
again
I would argue that anyone who does independent research falls outside of the "Joe Average" persona. At any rate independent research will nullify any advertising you've seen because you'll be looking at the facts rather than the packaging.

marketing is only meant to push people in a direction. after that it is the consumers responsibility to find out what the product can or can not do

this article shifts the blame to sony when the blame is on the consumer.
How much sway "marketing" has is up for debate, but I believe it's just as true that people make snap purchases based on glitz and glamor as they are to be nudged toward making an informed decision.

Your claim that the consumer is somehow to blame is rather baffling to me. If the Sony (or MS or Nintendo) jargon is confusing then it isn't someone's fault when they become confused. "Let the buyer beware," has never been a great excuse for a corporation.
 

Orcus The Ultimate

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Nov 22, 2009
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from what i see, the Sony is trying to experiment on it's own console for the first half of it's lifespan... then they might use the full capacity of it's system.
 

mrx19869

New member
Jun 17, 2009
502
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0
DRD 1812 said:
what sensible things can the PS3 not do?
It's not really up to me, the potential consumer, to find out. Marketing is supposed to tell people what something does. What "sensible" means is up to individuals, but for the sake of this argument: Outside of browsing the internet, the PS3 cannot do a host of things that personal computers or cell phones can do. If you say that the PS3 doesn't need to or shouldn't do some of those things, then I'd refer you to their marketing. "It only does everything."

do you buy a ford just by listing to the marketing? no you do independent research
again
I would argue that anyone who does independent research falls outside of the "Joe Average" persona. At any rate independent research will nullify any advertising you've seen because you'll be looking at the facts rather than the packaging.

marketing is only meant to push people in a direction. after that it is the consumers responsibility to find out what the product can or can not do

this article shifts the blame to sony when the blame is on the consumer.
How much sway "marketing" has is up for debate, but I believe it's just as true that people make snap purchases based on glitz and glamor as they are to be nudged toward making an informed decision.

Your claim that the consumer is somehow to blame is rather baffling to me. If the Sony (or MS or Nintendo) jargon is confusing then it isn't someone's fault when they become confused. "Let the buyer beware," has never been a great excuse for a corporation.
Its a shame that you think the average person is not going to want to do independent research. The average person would do research because he or she is buying something that they normal do not. Also what kind of person just spends 300ish dollars on a item without doing research. There is nothing confusing about sony's current marketing, the comercials show you what it does, the box tells you what it does, they have a website detailing everything.

when you watch a car commercial the give you the basic features, what it looks like, and the price, sounds just like PS3 commercials, when the commercial is over the average person who is interested is going to looking into it. for at least for a while.

i think people here think the average person is stupid or something...
 

OneBig Man

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Jul 23, 2008
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I don't know, the Playstation never caught my fancy, ever since I got the first one for Christmas one year. I realy think it might have been their controllers. I like having the joystick above the D-pad, like on the Xbox and Gamecube. I will excuse the N64 for this flaw because the only game I had that used the D-pad was Pokemin Stadium.

Also they didn't have a trigger until the PS3, which still used R1 to shoot when I played my friends COD. I mean even the N64 had somewhat of a trigger with the Z button (thats probably why I shoot lefty when I paintball or hunt). If they had changed their controller, I might have puchased a PS2/3 instead of a gamecube and Xbox/360.
 

StriderShinryu

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Dec 8, 2009
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bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
 

mrx19869

New member
Jun 17, 2009
502
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StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
 

rees263

The Lone Wanderer
Jun 4, 2009
517
0
0
Deviluk said:
Thats probably the case in the states, but no-one buys a 360 in Japan, and here in the UK all my friends have PS3s. And I don't think their target market is any different to the 360, they practically have the same base of games, and are now doing the same thing with the motion control thing.
I wish I was in your position. I'm a PS3 owner (okay, maybe fanboy :S) but all my friends own 360s.
I think the market is fairly even here in the UK (still slightly in 360's favour perhaps?) I have to say that neither adverts for Sony or M$ are particularly interesting to me. They never say anything I don't already know. Nintendos are just as useless for information but they do seem more likely to appeal to the average person (which is no doubt a factor in why they are outstripping the others so much in terms of sales).
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
7,222
0
0
ThisNewGuy said:
Susan Arendt said:
mrx19869 said:
does anybody know if this "Susan Arendt" the author of this post owns a PS3, and if so what model?
Yes, I do, an original launch model. Ah, sweet, sweet BC....

Also, I don't quite understand why people think I am confused about a PS3's capabilities. I also state quite clearly that I think the PS3 is a great machine, and simply wish that Sony would do it justice by crafting a clear message for it.
The thing is, "it only does everything" is a pretty clear message. I mean, I've never been turned off by the Iphone or the PC or the Microwave because they had too many settings. I mean, I can't speak for you, but personally, 5 to 10 functions on a machine isn't confusing to me especially when they are all under the umbrella of "entertainment." It's like getting confused at "movies" because it plays both sound AND video at the same time.
Ok, let me take this opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions.

The first is that I find fault with the "It does everything" branding. I don't. I think that's brilliant and succinct -- which I thought I made clear when I called the Kevin Butler ads a "stroke of genius," but if not, ok. But I personally find the new Move ad to be at odds with that, because it's so clearly mimicking the Wii ads. To me, that says that Sony doesn't want you to think of the PS3 as something different from the Wii, but rather something that does what the Wii does, too. Now, your mileage on that particular interpretation may vary.

Ok, second misconception is to whom I'm referring when I talk about "confusing." So let me clear up a few definitions. When I say "gamer," I mean folks like you, me, and everyone else who inhabits this site. People who are invested in gaming to the point of educating themselves about it. When I say "average consumer," I do not mean average gamer. I mean average person who doesn't read gaming magazines, or browse gaming websites, I mean someone who wants to maybe play God of War because they saw a commercial on TV, or who occasionally browses the videogame section at Best Buy. You, my friends, are most definitely not the average videogame consumer, even if you are the average gamer. You are far more educated than you probably even realize you are. You know so much about this medium, you perhaps don't realize how little the rest of the public knows.

It is the average consumer that I'm concerned may be left puzzled by Sony's mixed messages. Not the average gamer.

mrx19869 said:
The message has to change because the people buying the ps3 are different now than they were 4 years ago. The people who purchased the ps3 the day it came out like me (waited 3 days in a tent with my friends for it) we knew everything about it, they did not have to market it, they didnt even have to put a picture on the box for me.

now skip to today, the best way sony saw to market the PS3 was to simply state " it does everything" also they have a great website that is easy to use, and explains all the features ,
i guess my question is now what does your statement "marketing is so scattereshot" refer to.. am i correct to assume you are talking about commercials?
Yes, I am referring to commercials, which is how the typical person learns about new products. And no, the average consumer is not stupid, but is also not nearly as savvy as you seem to think. Ask the average IT guy how smart the people for whom he has to provide support are. When it comes to purchases like cars, yes, absolutely, most folks will do research, but cars are something with which they've been familiar all their lives, so they know the kind of information to look for. The average consumer, believe it or not, quite likely couldn't even tell you what company makes what console. They don't know that Nintendo makes Mario games, they just know they like Mario. Many of them have no idea that there are games you can play on one console that you can't play on others. This doesn't make them stupid, just not as well informed as people who are really into games.
 

StriderShinryu

New member
Dec 8, 2009
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mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
 

ThisNewGuy

New member
Apr 28, 2009
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Susan Arendt said:
Ok, let me take this opportunity to clear up a few misconceptions.

The first is that I find fault with the "It does everything" branding. I don't. I think that's brilliant and succinct -- which I thought I made clear when I called the Kevin Butler ads a "stroke of genius," but if not, ok. But I personally find the new Move ad to be at odds with that, because it's so clearly mimicking the Wii ads. To me, that says that Sony doesn't want you to think of the PS3 as something different from the Wii, but rather something that does what the Wii does, too. Now, your mileage on that particular interpretation may vary.

Ok, second misconception is to whom I'm referring when I talk about "confusing." So let me clear up a few definitions. When I say "gamer," I mean folks like you, me, and everyone else who inhabits this site. People who are invested in gaming to the point of educating themselves about it. When I say "average consumer," I do not mean average gamer. I mean average person who doesn't read gaming magazines, or browse gaming websites, I mean someone who wants to maybe play God of War because they saw a commercial on TV, or who occasionally browses the videogame section at Best Buy. You, my friends, are most definitely not the average videogame consumer, even if you are the average gamer. You are far more educated than you probably even realize you are. You know so much about this medium, you perhaps don't realize how little the rest of the public knows.

It is the average consumer that I'm concerned may be left puzzled by Sony's mixed messages. Not the average gamer.
But Sony's message isn't that PS3 is different than the Wii. It's saying that the PS3 can do what the Wii can do, but more "hardcore." So I think "does what the Wii does too" follow under "it only does everything." I don't really get how you made the jump from "it only does everything" to "it only does everything except Wii stuff." So the Move is definitely not at odds with the ads because "it only does everything" could include (and does include) motion control. At least, that's how I interpret it.

And as far as "average consumer" goes. My 55 year old dad could understand what the PS3 is for and what it does. Anybody who has ever touched a controller or who has ever operated any machine can understand what the PS3 is. I think it's presumptuous for you or anybody else here to assume that the "average consumer" is the equivalent to "idiots who can't aim their piss directly into the bowls." I mean, people are dumb, but if they could understand how to operate the Wii, then they're not THAT dumb. I really don't think people will watch the ads that show Uncharted 2 and Bluray movies and Little Big Planet, and say "it plays games AND movies? I don't understand how anything could do that." Let's put it this way: any "average consumer" who's interested in games via ads or whatnot will be just as confused about the PS3's functions as they are with the Wii, 360, PSP, DS, IPhone, PC, and Mac. Every gaming platform does more than just games. This article would've worked a couple years ago before the PS3 launched when Sony featured baby doll ads that confused everyone. But today, Sony is very clear with its messages, and the PS3 is just like every other gaming platform, but with Bluray. Really? That's too hard to understand?

Edit: now that I think about it, if anything, the Iphone/PC/Mac should be much much more confusing than the PS3/360/Wii. And as far as I can tell, none of those things have an "identity crisis."
 

Slycne

Tank Ninja
Feb 19, 2006
3,422
0
0
mrx19869 said:
DRD 1812 said:
what sensible things can the PS3 not do?
It's not really up to me, the potential consumer, to find out. Marketing is supposed to tell people what something does. What "sensible" means is up to individuals, but for the sake of this argument: Outside of browsing the internet, the PS3 cannot do a host of things that personal computers or cell phones can do. If you say that the PS3 doesn't need to or shouldn't do some of those things, then I'd refer you to their marketing. "It only does everything."

do you buy a ford just by listing to the marketing? no you do independent research
again
I would argue that anyone who does independent research falls outside of the "Joe Average" persona. At any rate independent research will nullify any advertising you've seen because you'll be looking at the facts rather than the packaging.

marketing is only meant to push people in a direction. after that it is the consumers responsibility to find out what the product can or can not do

this article shifts the blame to sony when the blame is on the consumer.
How much sway "marketing" has is up for debate, but I believe it's just as true that people make snap purchases based on glitz and glamor as they are to be nudged toward making an informed decision.

Your claim that the consumer is somehow to blame is rather baffling to me. If the Sony (or MS or Nintendo) jargon is confusing then it isn't someone's fault when they become confused. "Let the buyer beware," has never been a great excuse for a corporation.
Its a shame that you think the average person is not going to want to do independent research. The average person would do research because he or she is buying something that they normal do not. Also what kind of person just spends 300ish dollars on a item without doing research. There is nothing confusing about sony's current marketing, the comercials show you what it does, the box tells you what it does, they have a website detailing everything.

when you watch a car commercial the give you the basic features, what it looks like, and the price, sounds just like PS3 commercials, when the commercial is over the average person who is interested is going to looking into it. for at least for a while.

i think people here think the average person is stupid or something...
Have you ever worked in retail before? I can tell you from first hand experience that the average consumer is very much compelled by the latest pretty lights and will have little knowledge of the product other than what a commercial has told them. If the average consumer really did do research there would be no need for marketing. This doesn't even take into account people buying systems as gifts and thus knowing even less then the average consumer. I'm not a marketing guru but past experience have shown that changing your brand image is usually not a good idea, and constantly changing your image is just going to confuse them more. That's all this article is stating, and if people weren't so blinded by their opinions they might see that it's actually trying to address an issue to so that Sony can sell more PS3s.
 

mrsketchy

New member
Mar 11, 2010
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The ps3 is for people with large excesses of money to rub in peoples faces before throwing it behind the couch in embarassment when everyone owns one and swatting away their noobish taunts with "I was into it before it was cool" while waiting for the next game sequels that are exclusively releaased onto the next generation console in a diobolical marketing scheme.
 

mrx19869

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Jun 17, 2009
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StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
did read it did comprehend it and if you read all the post in this thread i have given my reasoning why i think this a bad article...

so congrats..
 

bjj hero

New member
Feb 4, 2009
3,180
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StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
Its like Indigo Dingo was never banned...

People need to read Susan's article. She says that Sony has put out an advert that is near identical to the Wii advert and that Sony seems unsure about who they are marketing their product too.

Lets take a less heated example. Imagine seeing a cola advert during the holidays with a CGI polar bear drinking a bottle of cola. You have seen this on Coca-cola adverts for years, then at the end the logo appears and it turns out to be advertising pepsi.

This would be considered a silly move for pepsi and does nothing to strengthen the Pepsi brand or to seperate it from other colas. Someone flicking channels could well view it and "see" a Coca-cola ad. Not a good use of Pepsi's advertising money.


That is exactly what SONY is currently doing with move.

Why is this so hard to grasp?
 

shadow skill

New member
Oct 12, 2007
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bjj hero said:
StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
Its like Indigo Dingo was never banned...

People need to read Susan's article. She says that Sony has put out an advert that is near identical to the Wii advert and that Sony seems unsure about who they are marketing their product too.

Lets take a less heated example. Imagine seeing a cola advert during the holidays with a CGI polar bear drinking a bottle of cola. You have seen this on Coca-cola adverts for years, then at the end the logo appears and it turns out to be advertising pepsi.

This would be considered a silly move for pepsi and does nothing to strengthen the Pepsi brand or to seperate it from other colas. Someone flicking channels could well view it and "see" a Coca-cola ad. Not a good use of Pepsi's advertising money.


That is exactly what SONY is currently doing with move.

Why is this so hard to grasp?
Except they do know who they are marketing to. The argument being made here only works if the device was intended to only market to one group. As I said earlier no one complains about Iphone ads that have nothing to do with telecommunications. There isn't a reason to complain about Sony doing the same thing when it is clear that they were never only targeting "hardcore" gamers or gamers in general. The only people "confused" at this point are gamers who think that the platform was intended to appeal to them alone.
 

Reolus

New member
Mar 11, 2010
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Wow, this thread is interesting. I can't take console hate seriously though. I mean if you line them up, my Wii is white, my XBox 360 is grey and my PS3 is black. That's about as far as I can go in regards to comparison.

If I had to throw my perspective in, it just makes me profoundly amused that there was so much hate for the wii controller initially by the other two console-owners, and now that it's coming out on their console the "no it will be awesome" reverse-of-perspective (by some) is hilarious.

That Sony would go "we are catering to the hardcore group" and then change is probably a sign that either the hardcore group is too small or too fussy to be marketed too. The amount of "all games are so passe` these days" comments I have seen makes me wonder why developers even bother making games for people who complain at all. Regardless of whether you fall into it or not, the casual gaming market is a viable target demographic.

You'll never be able to convince people, especially fiery young opinionated males, that they are wrong. I'm a console war veteran myself, back in the Nintendo vs SEGA days. I remember hating SEGA (Sonic!) for no other reason than he was the Other Team.

Like football teams, religions or politics, whenever you tell people to make a values-based decision - in this case perceived value - they will always defend it (see thread, above).

What I'd really like to know is, how successful do you think Sony will be with its' motion controller line?
 

SonicKoala

The Night Zombie
Sep 8, 2009
2,266
0
0
My god, the PS3 fanboyism in this thread is unbearable. Why is it that people feel so compelled to leap to the defense of the PS3? It's sold millions of units worldwide and has once agained reclaimed it's place as a formidable competitor in the so-called "console wars". It doesn't need defending.

I personally enjoyed the article, and I think it's ridiculous that certain people in this thread seem to feel that this article was bad because Susan failed to specifically outline how amazing the PS3 is and all the little things that it can do. If you want a site that sings the praises of one specific console, why the fuck are you here?

It's obvious that the PS3 does have an identity crisis. I feel it certaintly fell into it's niche with the "it only does everything" ads, but this newest ad is a blatant attempt to market itself towards the casual Wii crowd. I can understand how introducing a motion controller can be viewed as being part of the "everything" label, but seriously - are people so blinded by their idiotic fanboyism that they can't see this is NOT what Sony's intention is? It's painfully obvious (just look at how similar Sony's advert is to the Wii's advert) that this is a desperate attempt on Sony's part to draw in the Wii crowd, not expand on the "everything" label. If that was the case, they should have brought Kevin Butler back and integrated the new motion controller into that same type of advert.

Personally, I saw an identity crisis even in the "it only does everything" ads. Just look at the one where it claims how "family-friendly" the PS3 is because of "titles like LittleBigPlanet"..... you mean one of the ONLY family-friendly titles available for the PS3? I agree that the PS3 can do almost anything one can expect from a game console, but I think a huge problem is that being able to do "everything" does NOT mean the PS3 is for everybody, and it is here where I think Sony's biggest identity crisis lies. Sony knows what the PS3 is, but it just can't seem to be able to grasp who it's for.
 

shadow skill

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SonicKoala said:
My god, the PS3 fanboyism in this thread is unbearable. Why is it that people feel so compelled to leap to the defense of the PS3? It's sold millions of units worldwide and has once agained reclaimed it's place as a formidable competitor in the so-called "console wars". It doesn't need defending.

I personally enjoyed the article, and I think it's ridiculous that certain people in this thread seem to feel that this article was bad because Susan failed to specifically outline how amazing the PS3 is and all the little things that it can do. If you want a site that sings the praises of one specific console, why the fuck are you here?

It's obvious that the PS3 does have an identity crisis. I feel it certaintly fell into it's niche with the "it only does everything" ads, but this newest ad is a blatant attempt to market itself towards the casual Wii crowd. I can understand how introducing a motion controller can be viewed as being part of the "everything" label, but seriously - are people so blinded by their idiotic fanboyism that they can't see this is NOT what Sony's intention is? It's painfully obvious (just look at how similar Sony's advert is to the Wii's advert) that this is a desperate attempt on Sony's part to draw in the Wii crowd, not expand on the "everything" label. If that was the case, they should have brought Kevin Butler back and integrated the new motion controller into that same type of advert.

Personally, I saw an identity crisis even in the "it only does everything" ads. Just look at the one where it claims how "family-friendly" the PS3 is because of "titles like LittleBigPlanet"..... you mean one of the ONLY family-friendly titles available for the PS3? I agree that the PS3 can do almost anything one can expect from a game console, but I think a huge problem is that being able to do "everything" does NOT mean the PS3 is for everybody, and it is here where I think Sony's biggest identity crisis lies. Sony knows what the PS3 is, but it just can't seem to be able to grasp who it's for.
This is your problem not the advertisement's in this case. I ask you, do you complain when the Iphone shows people playing games on it, or turning off the lights in their house? None of that has anything to do with telecommunications. Do you wonder what the Iphone is at it's core? Supposedly you can't have specific adverts for given functionality? It's also not new to have advertisements that are separate from your main focus. http://news.teamxbox.com/xbox/11149/Xbox-360-Jump-In-Ad-Wins-ADDY-Best-of-Show-Award/
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/1799187/movie_xbox_360_commercial/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLTTcc7jCnc

It's not fanboyism to point out how utterly daft it is to claim that there is an identity crisis when advertisements/trailers talking about specific functionality are common place, and in keeping with the overall concept of a box that does it all.
 

pantsoffdanceoff

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I feel the pattern of the PS3 was mainly because they tried to be trendsetters at the get go with their massive amounts of technology and what-nots, and that obviously (if you are to consider success by sales) didn't work*. So, it to me, makes sense that they would of course follow what the more successful consoles are doing and copy it [i/]but better [/i], establishing an obviously wishy-washy stance. Personally I love the PS3 (I don't own a single blue ray), and I do hope they do a good job with the motion sensor (which I would have preferred to have been called the "Groove")

*Of course then blaming the fans for the failure wasn't genius either.
 

shadow skill

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pantsoffdanceoff said:
I feel the pattern of the PS3 was mainly because they tried to be trendsetters at the get go with their massive amounts of technology and what-nots, and that obviously (if you are to consider success by sales) didn't work*. So, it to me, makes sense that they would of course follow what the more successful consoles are doing and copy it [i/]but better [/i], establishing an obviously wishy-washy stance. Personally I love the PS3 (I don't own a single blue ray), and I do hope they do a good job with the motion sensor (which I would have preferred to have been called the "Groove")

*Of course then blaming the fans for the failure wasn't genius either.
The name is more of a problem than the ads. Groove would have been a much more fun name that people could get behind.
 

ThisNewGuy

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shadow skill said:
bjj hero said:
StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
Its like Indigo Dingo was never banned...

People need to read Susan's article. She says that Sony has put out an advert that is near identical to the Wii advert and that Sony seems unsure about who they are marketing their product too.

Lets take a less heated example. Imagine seeing a cola advert during the holidays with a CGI polar bear drinking a bottle of cola. You have seen this on Coca-cola adverts for years, then at the end the logo appears and it turns out to be advertising pepsi.

This would be considered a silly move for pepsi and does nothing to strengthen the Pepsi brand or to seperate it from other colas. Someone flicking channels could well view it and "see" a Coca-cola ad. Not a good use of Pepsi's advertising money.


That is exactly what SONY is currently doing with move.

Why is this so hard to grasp?
Except they do know who they are marketing to. The argument being made here only works if the device was intended to only market to one group. As I said earlier no one complains about Iphone ads that have nothing to do with telecommunications. There isn't a reason to complain about Sony doing the same thing when it is clear that they were never only targeting "hardcore" gamers or gamers in general. The only people "confused" at this point are gamers who think that the platform was intended to appeal to them alone.
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
 

Daedalus1942

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If the ps3 starts creating shitty third party games and using "PiiMote" gimmicks in their games, I guess I might actually invest in an Xbox Live Gold subscription.
 

Daedalus1942

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Warped_Ghost said:
PS3 is for anyone that doesn't like Mass effect, halo or gears of war.
Yes.. because there aren't any other decent games on Xbox at all are there?
Lost Odyssey, Blue Dragon, Crimson Skies (old xbox game), Panzer Dragoon Orta, Scrapland, Star Ocean (before it was ported to ps3), Kameo: Elements of power to name a few. They're all just shit, right? ... right?
 

shadow skill

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Daedalus1942 said:
If the ps3 starts creating shitty third party games and using "PiiMote" gimmicks in their games, I guess I might actually invest in an Xbox Live Gold subscription.
Let's hope they go for more Flower/Flow type games. IE. Not crap. :)
 

Carlston

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I have one, and honestly, I'm across the board in liking games save for sports ones. But since everything is now just Intel chips and scaled down PC hardware I got it for the Blue ray movies and the fact it was just more powerful....

Oh and the red ring thing. Since everyone I knew who had a 360 the box crapped out in less than a year was a big point for me to NOT get a 360. Fanboys dislike or not, the huge failure rate the 360 had and its still not fixed? My ps3 is going strong.
 

Falseprophet

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OK, well let me offer a positive reaction on the Move trailer from a slightly different perspective. As a person who owns a PS3 but not a 360 or Wii, this trailer has convinced me that I don't need to buy a Wii to play essentially the same motion-controller games. So if you already have a PS3 because you wanted a good Blu-Ray player, or because of the Slim pricedrop, or because of the PlayStation legacy, but have been tempted by all the WiiFit propaganda, now you can hold off buying that Wii--your PS3 will be able to do that too!

Will Move bring in new converts to the PS3? That I'm not so sure about. Better marketing probably will be required closer to release time. Since they're clearly aiming for the casual/home entertainment crowd, the logical route is to say the PS3 is a Wii with better graphics that also plays Blu-Ray movies and can serve as your home entertainment system. That's probably the best way to get them to swallow the higher price tag.

Here's another thought: does a console require a laser-focused marketing campaign? Can you pull off a two-pronged campaign? In this case, marketing the Move/Blu-Ray/home entertainment aspects to the casual/family audience, and say, the high-quality exclusives and free online to the hardcores. Could that be the answer to Sony's woes? Can it be a floor wax and a dessert topping? (1:29) [http://www.break.com/usercontent/2009/4/SNL-New-Shimmer-Commercial-704661.html]
 

MaltesePigeon

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I sell video game systems in a toy store. My customers are average joes, not gamers or average gamers. Most of them want Wiis. They want them because they or their kids played one at a friends house. The ads have little to do with it. At least they don't anymore. There are just lots of wiis out there for average joes to be exposed to.

Seriously, how many video game commercials do you see on prime time network television?

If Sony does this right then they can grab SOME of what the Nintendo has. One really epic motion game (I can't believe I just wrote that) and all the people who bought a PS3 for the bluray will buy it. Then their friends/family will come over to play it. That's all they really need to do.

As far as the commercials are concerned, go to gametrailers and look at the Smash Bros Brawl trailer and the Street Fighter 4 trailer. They're just close ups of the prominent characters and fight scenes. Or compare two FPS trailers. Commercials always look the same because people are always the same.

The design of Move looks like a Wiimote. I bet the first caveman to invent the wheel was pissed when the second caveman to make a wheel started copying him. But I'm sure the competition made for better wheels in the long run and Nintendo really needs some competition.

Is the PS3 message unclear? Only to people that have been listening from the start. Us. But long ago we decided whether we wanted a PS3 or not.

For all I care the launch game for Move could be "Move: Out of Your Girlfriend's Apartment," a game involving loading boxes into a truck, driving said truck, then unloading the boxes at your parent's house. I like my Xbox.

Sorry I rambled.
 

Kurokami

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SaintWaldo said:
So, what does Natal say about XBox? I'd just like to know that the same standards are being applied.

It doesn't make sense to me to say Sony is confusing folks because they are following Wii with Move when MS is doing...the SAME thing with Natal.

Why is Sony described as "confused" for chasing the Wii's casual audience, when MS does the same thing?

Why was the press obsessed with Sony's motion controller name, and whether it was "exciting", but they've never asked MS to give us something other than the dev name?

I mean, come on, even the straw man in the article seems a bit out of bounds. Seriously, someone walks into a game store and we should believe they wouldn't be able to work out that the PS3 plays games? In my opinion, this so-called "identity crisis" is as much a factor of the (mostly western) press reaction as anything else. No, it doesn't matter that I'm a gamer. I was never confused about what I was buying. The people who I've recommended a PS3 to knew what they were getting (and so did the folks I recommended get a Wii or 360, BTW), a game machine that played the kind of games they wanted.

Where is the review of the XBox history? That machine seems a bit confused right now, as well. One example: they seem to have changed from "10 years is WAY too long for a console lifespan" to "well, you know, we think the XBox 360 will be around until 2015". THAT'S a reversal that has gone completely unnoticed by the western press. They have bought into Sony's lifespan plan. In fact, you can find Nintendo saying similar things about the lifespan of the Wii. Why isn't this as noteworthy as a retrospective of the PS3's marketing, and not the FIRST one at that, mind you? Just 2 years after the fact, XBox has been allowed to live down a 30% defect rate that bordered on fraud. But Sony is just CRAZY because 6 years ago they had a weird add. You see why that might seem a bit off-putting?

You see, it's news if it's new. We already know the early marketing was filled with hubris and silliness. That's not news. We also know ALL consoles are putting out motion controls, which in a regular world running on human logic means that none of them are confused about being gaming consoles that have motion controllers.

Why it's news for Sony, and apparently bad news from the tone of the write up, well, I guess that's wisdom for the US gaming press to create and deliver.
Gotta remember that Xbox multiplayer is infested with 12 year old gibbons.
 

misfit119

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I've come to a pretty big conclusion about Sony - they're officially trying to market to the "people who already own a PS3" crowd. Seriously they seem to have this deep, self hating aversion to making money. They come out with a motion controller that does nothing for gaming, they announce a Wiimote for their console while I'm still wondering what the point of Sixaxis was (even though it was the future and Dualshock the past) and now you can't even find one of the blasted consoles in stores because they're not producing even remotely near enough of them. Can't find any in the stores while FFXIII was just released. Lets reiterate - you can't find any consoles in the stores, because Sony is being slow about producing any of them, when there's a console selling game on the shelves. Great move guys.

Microsofts commercials are distinctly American for the most part (loud, noisy and flashy) but it gets the job done. Nintendo basically screams "We're for a family and friends to have a good time" and it works. Sony has no idea what's going on or where they are. I think their main problem is that their PR people are just absolutely terrible. They can never really decide on what message they want to send and they just bounce around, aimlessly hoping to hit upon a success. But let's be honest about the fact that Sony was never great at PR they let their system speak for itself while making ridiculously artsy fartsy commercials. This Sony "It just does everything" campaign is terrible.

And whoever said that Microsoft changed their console lifespan estimate because of Sony you need to learn a bit more about those events. When they announced the Xbox 360 being only a short term machine until the next one came they took a HUGE backlash right on the chin. So they completely changed their tune to buy back some support. It has nothing to do with Sony and everything to do with feedback from the gaming community. A couple of their PR guys even said as much during a dinner at E3 '09.
 

ace_of_something

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mrx19869 said:
ace_of_something said:
hrm. Interesting. My wife and I loves our PS3. It's played daily by at least one of us. I think they should market it to hip young childless couples. Though that would require more multiplayer games (multiplayer, NOT online)
thats not what they want to do, they want to let people know that if you want to do it, you can do it on the ps3, because the ps3 does eveything
What? They're still using that slogan? I mean cuz after what we call 'the homade ice cream fiasco' we found out that it certainly can NOT do everything. I claim false advertising.
Sure is a nifty game machine though.
 

JEBWrench

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Having never actually met a flesh-and-blood human being who currently owns a PS3. (One owned one, got extremely bored with it, and then got a Wii), I can say for certain that the average person who might be loosely interested in getting a console has roughly no idea what the PS3 can do. Blu-Ray? Do you know what the layman's response to that is?

WTF's the difference?

When you mention motion controls? "So, it's like the Wii?"

Motion controls, to the layman, mean "Wii". If Sony's looking to change that association, it's an interesting tactic, but if they're just going for "Me too, but it'll cost more!" they're probably going to lose.
 

Toasted Nuts

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I have both consoles, and i have friends on either console who play the games on there a lot. I bought both consoles mainly as a games console, the PS3 for some of the exclusives as i had an xbox 360 first about 3 years before i bought a PS3. The blue Ray player was just a bonus that also gt from buying this games console.

Free internet or not, i have to say as an online console the PS3 is rubbish compared to the xbox. The fact that you get a free headset makes all the difference with the xbox, i have to go out and buy one for the ps3 and most of them are rubbish Bluetooth headsets that give me earache after an hours use. The fact that you also cant have an type of in game chat with your friends like an xbox live party is just terrible and makes the online experience nothing compared to the xbox.

For me as gaming is the most important thing from a console these things are the most important for me. But more on topic of the original article, i agree that Sony should just focus on 1 direction for the console and stick with it. Because fore me im not sure what the PS3 really is. If they focused purely on a Console they might focus on making an in game chat feature like an XBL party but instead they focus on giving me facebook on my console...

Really though its down to bottom line profits, but considering the amount of PS2's sold surely if they had ust made it purely a console they may have retained more of these customers. I can understand them wanting to expand the consumer base but they must have known they would alienate a lot of gamers.

This is an advert we have in the UK for the ps3 which i honestly think are anouying, Sony trying to sell the PS3 as able to do loads of stuff.

 

Deviluk

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rees263 said:
Deviluk said:
Thats probably the case in the states, but no-one buys a 360 in Japan, and here in the UK all my friends have PS3s. And I don't think their target market is any different to the 360, they practically have the same base of games, and are now doing the same thing with the motion control thing.
I wish I was in your position. I'm a PS3 owner (okay, maybe fanboy :S) but all my friends own 360s.
I think the market is fairly even here in the UK (still slightly in 360's favour perhaps?) I have to say that neither adverts for Sony or M$ are particularly interesting to me. They never say anything I don't already know. Nintendos are just as useless for information but they do seem more likely to appeal to the average person (which is no doubt a factor in why they are outstripping the others so much in terms of sales).
I agree, but it also does annoy me a little when it says 'On Xbox 360' for a game like FFXIII., even though in my experience PS3 gamers prefer stories and big, AAA adventures, whereas 360's are better for your EA sports and games with an emphasis on multiplayer.
 

RicoADF

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Jun 2, 2009
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Personally the PS3 is doing what it was always said to do, be an entertainment system. I play movies on it as much as I game on it, and it was well worth the $1000 AUD (preorded it).
 

AceDiamond

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ThisNewGuy said:
And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Are you trying to imply that Sony users are an illogically oppressed people who don't get the same insurance benefits as Nintendo and Microsoft users? Seriously it's like bringing sexuality into an argument for no reason is the new Godwin's Law

And since Susan has had to clarify what I felt was a very unbiased and reasonable opinion on the inherent identity crisis of the PS3 (remember, Sony went from saying motion control was a gimmick to having both SIXAXIS and now the PSMove), it's obvious that there is clear fanboyism going on here, your attempt to sympathize your fake comparison trying to equate the "plight" of being a Sony fan with being gay just seals the deal on how illogical the counterargument about this article is. Grow up already, you're not downtrodden, you're just in the unfortunate position of being a fan of a console in third place. Nintendo fans (some of them) sucked it up and dealt with it for a decade, why can't you?
 

bjj hero

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shadow skill said:
bjj hero said:
StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
Its like Indigo Dingo was never banned...

People need to read Susan's article. She says that Sony has put out an advert that is near identical to the Wii advert and that Sony seems unsure about who they are marketing their product too.

Lets take a less heated example. Imagine seeing a cola advert during the holidays with a CGI polar bear drinking a bottle of cola. You have seen this on Coca-cola adverts for years, then at the end the logo appears and it turns out to be advertising pepsi.

This would be considered a silly move for pepsi and does nothing to strengthen the Pepsi brand or to seperate it from other colas. Someone flicking channels could well view it and "see" a Coca-cola ad. Not a good use of Pepsi's advertising money.


That is exactly what SONY is currently doing with move.

Why is this so hard to grasp?
Except they do know who they are marketing to. The argument being made here only works if the device was intended to only market to one group. As I said earlier no one complains about Iphone ads that have nothing to do with telecommunications. There isn't a reason to complain about Sony doing the same thing when it is clear that they were never only targeting "hardcore" gamers or gamers in general. The only people "confused" at this point are gamers who think that the platform was intended to appeal to them alone.
Did you read what I wrote? You can talk about all of the things the PS3 can do. Marketing guys are meant to be creative, there are millions of ways to do it rather than put out an exact copy of a Wii advertisement.

Going back to the less emotionally charged cola example; Coke and Pepsi are competing for the same market, as all of thes motion controls probably will be. That doesn't make there Ads identical, they still keep their style and brand identity. They dont all churn out the same advert then tie their logo on it.

If you want to talk Iphone, they do sell the app store, but it doesn't look like a sony-erikkson, Nokkia or Samsung advertisment. It keeps the apple identity, with a style that holds together all Apple products and advertisments. I can only talk about the UK marketing as I no longer live in the US. So stop bringing up the Iphone, it is not relevant in this discussion.

I feel that you missed the point of the article, try rereading it, you will see what I'm saying.

ThisNewGuy said:
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Because PS3 owners are an oppressed group? I think you are giving Xbox owners a little too much credit. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3fanboys who would love to think they are being kept down by "the man" but its just not the case.

As a PS3 owner you can join the military, get married, adopt, get health insurance, kiss your partner in public without fear of reprisals, I could go on...

A very poor and irrelevant comparison.
 

DTWolfwood

Better than Vash!
Oct 20, 2009
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its the console u get if you DO NOT YET OWN A SINGLE CONSOLE. cause it does what the Wii and 360 does. the Jack of All Trade.

It would certainly get that market now! the completely undecided...all 10 of them <.<

will in all likelihood get the 'move' controllers
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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I suppose when you're tagline is "It only does everything" you're bound to have a hard time focusing on what "everything" means.
 

Susan Arendt

Nerd Queen
Jan 9, 2007
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RicoADF said:
Personally the PS3 is doing what it was always said to do, be an entertainment system. I play movies on it as much as I game on it, and it was well worth the $1000 AUD (preorded it).
my family has three PS3's. one's our blu ray player and the other is a gaming console.

the third one I bought for myself (I'm the son of the family), and I take it with me to college.

I can't agree with you more, I've found it valuable for so many more reasons than just a gaming console. Even when it was priced at $600, it was a cheap value, in my opinion.
 

NamesAreHardToPick

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Sony's marketing department is really hit-and-miss... I'd say it's a case of their hardware selling in spite of the crap their executives say and most of the ad campaigns. It Only Does Everything was really good though. It's probably not easy to come up with an ad based on the theme "hey our thing has family games just like the ones for wii". I think Sony should be focusing on how cute/silly the glowing ball is... advertize the controller itself, rather than what it's for. It wouldn't be that effective probably, but neither are ads that some will think are for your competitor's product.

On the hardware front I think the PS3 is a lot better managed, so I don't agree with Move being part of an "identity crisis" in that respect. Thanks to Wii, motion controllers are a new fact of life for game consoles... like analog sticks, d-pads (I'm old), or multiple buttons (I'm that old). Move seems like a solid one-up on the Wiimote in terms of capabilities but similar enough that PS3 can get a lot of early software support for it because they're not making developers re-invent the wheel in terms of motion-control UI like Natal.

Also, think about this and then tell me your pants are still dry... Demon's Souls 2 with 1:1 motion control for melee combat. I think that's the ultimate goal. Of humanity.
 

shadow skill

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AceDiamond said:
ThisNewGuy said:
And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Are you trying to imply that Sony users are an illogically oppressed people who don't get the same insurance benefits as Nintendo and Microsoft users? Seriously it's like bringing sexuality into an argument for no reason is the new Godwin's Law

And since Susan has had to clarify what I felt was a very unbiased and reasonable opinion on the inherent identity crisis of the PS3 (remember, Sony went from saying motion control was a gimmick to having both SIXAXIS and now the PSMove), it's obvious that there is clear fanboyism going on here, your attempt to sympathize your fake comparison trying to equate the "plight" of being a Sony fan with being gay just seals the deal on how illogical the counterargument about this article is. Grow up already, you're not downtrodden, you're just in the unfortunate position of being a fan of a console in third place. Nintendo fans (some of them) sucked it up and dealt with it for a decade, why can't you?
Not a single person has explained why the Iphone is not accused of having an identity crisis. I pass by an Ipod billboard on my way to work that is showing pictures of games, not music. If anything is obvious it is that gamers have a serious case of myopia.


bjj hero said:
shadow skill said:
bjj hero said:
StriderShinryu said:
mrx19869 said:
StriderShinryu said:
bismarck55 said:
Susan's article is great, but this thread is embarrassing compared to usual standard here on the escapist.

Reading comprehension is key, people.
Indeed. I too really thought the Escapist Community was above this.
this article is not great...
Whether the article is great or not is besides the point (though I do wonder what particular factors you're using in making that judgement). What I do find, to be honest, rather shocking is the level of blatant fanboyism on show. You can certainly disagree with the column's viewpoint, and this would be a boring place if everyone always agreed with everything, but it would be nice if everyone at least read and comprehended what has been written.
Its like Indigo Dingo was never banned...

People need to read Susan's article. She says that Sony has put out an advert that is near identical to the Wii advert and that Sony seems unsure about who they are marketing their product too.

Lets take a less heated example. Imagine seeing a cola advert during the holidays with a CGI polar bear drinking a bottle of cola. You have seen this on Coca-cola adverts for years, then at the end the logo appears and it turns out to be advertising pepsi.

This would be considered a silly move for pepsi and does nothing to strengthen the Pepsi brand or to seperate it from other colas. Someone flicking channels could well view it and "see" a Coca-cola ad. Not a good use of Pepsi's advertising money.


That is exactly what SONY is currently doing with move.

Why is this so hard to grasp?
Except they do know who they are marketing to. The argument being made here only works if the device was intended to only market to one group. As I said earlier no one complains about Iphone ads that have nothing to do with telecommunications. There isn't a reason to complain about Sony doing the same thing when it is clear that they were never only targeting "hardcore" gamers or gamers in general. The only people "confused" at this point are gamers who think that the platform was intended to appeal to them alone.
Did you read what I wrote? You can talk about all of the things the PS3 can do. Marketing guys are meant to be creative, there are millions of ways to do it rather than put out an exact copy of a Wii advertisement.

Going back to the less emotionally charged cola example; Coke and Pepsi are competing for the same market, as all of thes motion controls probably will be. That doesn't make there Ads identical, they still keep their style and brand identity. They dont all churn out the same advert then tie their logo on it.

If you want to talk Iphone, they do sell the app store, but it doesn't look like a sony-erikkson, Nokkia or Samsung advertisment. It keeps the apple identity, with a style that holds together all Apple products and advertisments. I can only talk about the UK marketing as I no longer live in the US. So stop bringing up the Iphone, it is not relevant in this discussion.

I feel that you missed the point of the article, try rereading it, you will see what I'm saying.

ThisNewGuy said:
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Because PS3 owners are an oppressed group? I think you are giving Xbox owners a little too much credit. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3fanboys who would love to think they are being kept down by "the man" but its just not the case.

As a PS3 owner you can join the military, get married, adopt, get health insurance, kiss your partner in public without fear of reprisals, I could go on...

A very poor and irrelevant comparison.
Insert Iphone and re-read the article. The thesis of this article isn't that the ad is bad, it is that Sony does not know who it is marketing to. The argument for the thesis makes no sense when you consider the fact that the PS3 has never been marketed to gamers alone.
 

Xersues

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BIAS BIAS BIAS FANBOY FANBOY FANBOY!

Holy cow, what a load of garbage going on in this thread.

bjj hero said:
I've seen the wireframe commercial and the EyePet commercial and maybe its just me but they don't look like Wii commercials to me. They look like generic toy commercials where a group of people get all fakely excited about a product.

Your Coke and Pepsi example doesn't work because you're talking about a commercial that uses an irrelevant means (the Polar bears) to express their brand. While yes, if Pepsi used the bears in a non-mocking way, why would it work, its not relevant to the product, its a mascot. If you look at both pepsi and coke commercials both of them show something drinking from a bottle/can. The Ipod/phone/music commercials showing people walking anywhere using their device. Commercials tend to copy each other all the time. Verizon and AT&T and their stupid map cock measuring contests. See what I mean?

Going back to the Wii and PS3, they're both played the same way. Its hard to describe the products without looking similar. Stand in front of TV, move around, show game, fun, etc.

The point that the wireframe commercials made was the precision of 1:1 they're trying to show. That it's less of a toy.

Perhaps you're talking about a different commercial, but while I found it similar to the Wii in gamestyle, I didn't in marketing. It's just a peripheral to a strong console and I fail to see how it's confused or marketed poorly. Like if a PC gets a new mouse that's a glove or something.
 

Rangergord

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I love my PS3 because it was a replacement for 3 lemon Xbox360's I went through (hard to play games when the system spent most of its life in transit for replacement); though I know others who had good luck with the system and bad luck with the Ps3, so I guess it is just the luck of the draw. But really this is how Soney should have markete it in the early days.

Also I think Soney's real big mistake is going head to head with their old system the PS2 and not commiting to the PS3; to this day PS2 games are still released for 10 to $25 cheaper than PS3, and budjet gamer still buy them. Microsoft more or less commited to the 360, and the Wii was something totally different, so sony has only itself to blaim for trying to hedge its bets too much.

AS for the wand, despite being happy with my PS3, god a wand...I'm not buying one. And I'll reserve judgement on Natal until it comes out and people have their say on it. Personally after trying a Will (even w/motion plus) I didn't find it made my game play any more gripping or enjoyable, in fact getting some movements to work in sync kind of felt more clumsy than trying to get use to new controller set ups.

If Sony wants to keep pace, I'm not sure a wand is going to help; just because crazy uncle Nintendo did it does not mean it will work for you. Hell Nintendo has been kind of exipermenting with this for years...remeber the power glove. Nintendo seems to know how to take risks and win, only because they've tried before and discovered the faults from past experience.

Sony should go for hardcore gamers, or those sick of constant PC updates or of pc games DRMs. Update PSN (gahh yes with pay per year like Xbox gold), find a nice way to intergrate keyboard/mouse option and get some MMO or even classic PC set-up FPS or RTS on the system. Blue-ray provides more space as does the hard drive for game size, and copy protection/control should be easier on a console than pc.

Turn the PS3 into a gaming computer alternative...before Xobox does.

Sadly I preidct PS3 saels will drop dramaticly once Xbox fixes some of its reilabilty issues, and more gramers are born and bred by bill gates and decide Milo is their new friend.
 

NamesAreHardToPick

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Couldn't you say the other - less hated - Playstations also had identity crises?

PS1 and PS2 were the machines that didn't have some obvious demographic and just seemed to grab everyone else by default. I think It Only Does Everything plays that open-endedness up really well and there's nothing inherently wrong with "me too" as a software/peripherals business strategy if your hardware is really good.
 

DRD 1812

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shadow skill said:
Insert Iphone and re-read the article. The thesis of this article isn't that the ad is bad, it is that Sony does not know who it is marketing to. The argument for the thesis makes no sense when you consider the fact that the PS3 has never been marketed to gamers alone.
When the iphone came out in 2007 Apple said it was a PHONE that had all the features you come to expect from a phone: calls, text messaging, email, camera and apps.

With the 3G in 2008 they said it was... what? Faster, lighter, more storage, and better battery. And with the 3GS they said it again, "it's the same thing only better."

Apple has always said the iphone is a PHONE with the same properties: calls, camera, apps. That's their whole bag.

Sony has changed the tone of their advertising from ENTERTAINMENT CENTER to BLU RAY PLAYER to GAMES to EVERYTHING to EVERYTHING+MOTION CONTROL. They've only just now unified their marketing to the "everything" shtick.

ThisNewGuy said:
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Calling someone who agrees with you intelligent, and thereby implying that anyone who doesn't is stupid isn't really a great way to have an argument.

Susan Arendt said:
Entirely off topic, but love the name, dude. Nice Farscape shout out. :)
Thanks! I wish I could be a little more originl with my handle, but who doesn't love the little guy after that episode?
 

Rangergord

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NamesAreHardToPick said:
Couldn't you say the other - less hated - Playstations also had identity crises?

PS1 and PS2 were the machines that didn't have some obvious demographic and just seemed to grab everyone else by default. I think It Only Does Everything plays that open-endedness up really well and there's nothing inherently wrong with "me too" as a software/peripherals business strategy if your hardware is really good.
I think the problem that many consuemrs assume/notice the base price first, and kind of put peripheral cost asside in their minds. When one looks at the PS3 all you see is its price (now a competitive $299 cnd, but early on was $499). Xbox base model is cheap $129, however if you need the extra large harddrive and wifi it creaps up to about $299 anyhow (again based on cnd prices in stores here, of course not including a Gold memebership, but that's a different story.

While many while agrue they don't need the extras on the Xbox, many people do buy them at point of sale or shortly there after. It's about giving consumers the illusion of choice.

The Wii is even worse, still cheap at $199 (only system to increase in price here!, but god the peripherals are nuts. If you need an extra controller its the most expensive (Waggle/controller base $44, Numchuck $25), not to mention ppl buying plastic wheels, tennis rackets, baseball bats, et alk at $10 a piece. This what sony wants into.
 

shadow skill

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DRD 1812 how does not saying what the item is create an identity crisis? It creates a potentially not so great ad yes, but identity problem...no. Plenty of commercials require the viewer to infer what the product actually is all the time. Microsoft uses this strategy with the Windows commercials, in part because they want people to equate Windows with computers. They don't try to let on that Windows is an Operating System separate from the hardware it runs on. Personally I would like it if Sony simply called the Playstation 3 a media centre, but I suspect that it would not register very well.
 

DRD 1812

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shadow skill said:
DRD 1812 how does not saying what the item is create an identity crisis?
Because if you don't say what something is then it has no identity? A lack of an identity can be considered an identity problem.

Plenty of commercials require the viewer to infer what the product actually is all the time. Microsoft uses this strategy with the Windows commercials, in part because they want people to equate Windows with computers. They don't try to let on that Windows is an Operating System separate from the hardware it runs on.
This is a difficult one to argue over because of the personal computer market. At this point, with a ~85% market share of ALL computers, you could reasonably say everyone knows what Windows is. Microsoft doesn't really need to advertise it. Apple doesn't really advertise Leopard either, they advertise Macintosh computers which are a whole unit (like a console). I guess I'm saying that there really isn't a comparison between console marketing and computer (or OS if you like) marketing.
 

GonzoGamer

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SonicKoala said:
My god, the PS3 fanboyism in this thread is unbearable. Why is it that people feel so compelled to leap to the defense of the PS3? It's sold millions of units worldwide and has once agained reclaimed it's place as a formidable competitor in the so-called "console wars". It doesn't need defending.
I can see the need to defend an expensive purchase for some people; I think they're afraid of being made to look like fools.

Personally, I'm starting to lose my patience with my ps3... actually with Sony to be precise. When it launched allthe dbags that worked at sony like Phil Harrison came out and gave a huge list of cool features like psp remote play and connectivity with console games, then there were the BR discs they said would be filled with extra content that couldn't fit on a dvd, there was 1080p native, there was custom soundtracks, video/snapshot capture, and the list goes on.

I wasn't expecting all of it at launch but they have the slim out now and the only features sony really seems to want everyone to know about are the ones they've ripped off of other consoles like achievement trophies and motion control.

Yea, "It only does everything" except what they said it would do.
I guess that's what you get for buying something based on potential. Then again, at the time I made the purchase, 360s were bursting into flames so I can't say I have any regrets except for enjoying a hobby where the consumers are taken for suckers.
 

capt.fodder

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I think Capcom told them to make a motion controller and then they'd port Monster Hunter 3 from the Wii. Sony knows this will print money in Japan, so here we are...
 

ThisNewGuy

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bjj hero said:
ThisNewGuy said:
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Because PS3 owners are an oppressed group? I think you are giving Xbox owners a little too much credit. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3fanboys who would love to think they are being kept down by "the man" but its just not the case.

As a PS3 owner you can join the military, get married, adopt, get health insurance, kiss your partner in public without fear of reprisals, I could go on...

A very poor and irrelevant comparison.
This is why the College Board had to remove analogy from the SATs, people just don't understand how they work.

Let me make it a bit more clear:

people who whine about Sony fanboys is to Sony fanboys as ultra conservatives who whine about gay activists is to gay activists.

It's not a comparison of Sony fanboys and gays in terms of social rights. It's the whining, not the legal rights issue. It's the analogy that people who whine about Sony fanboys just outright label them "sony fanboys" to dismiss anything that they say in an attempt to discredit their opinions before considering their arguments similar to how the ultra-conservatives call gay-rights activists "gay liberals" in an attempt to discredit their opinions before considering their arguments.

Let's put it into an example:

People who dismisses "sony fanboys" might say "oh and just another Sony fanboy being a Sony fanboy."

just like

Ultra-conservatives who dismisses "gay rights activists" might say "oh and just another gay liberal being a gay liberal."

I hope I don't have to explain the English language again.
 

bjj hero

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ThisNewGuy said:
bjj hero said:
ThisNewGuy said:
Finally, intelligence! And for people who are like "Sony fanboys, wah wah wah," please cut the shit, that's just as annoying as ultra-conservatives going "Gay right activists, wah wah wah."
Because PS3 owners are an oppressed group? I think you are giving Xbox owners a little too much credit. I'm sure there are plenty of PS3fanboys who would love to think they are being kept down by "the man" but its just not the case.

As a PS3 owner you can join the military, get married, adopt, get health insurance, kiss your partner in public without fear of reprisals, I could go on...

A very poor and irrelevant comparison.
This is why the College Board had to remove analogy from the SATs, people just don't understand how they work.

Let me make it a bit more clear:

people who whine about Sony fanboys is to Sony fanboys as ultra conservatives who whine about gay activists is to gay activists.

It's not a comparison of Sony fanboys and gays in terms of social rights. It's the whining, not the legal rights issue. It's the analogy that people who whine about Sony fanboys just outright label them "sony fanboys" to dismiss anything that they say in an attempt to discredit their opinions before considering their arguments similar to how the ultra-conservatives call gay-rights activists "gay liberals" in an attempt to discredit their opinions before considering their arguments.

Let's put it into an example:

People who dismisses "sony fanboys" might say "oh and just another Sony fanboy being a Sony fanboy."

just like

Ultra-conservatives who dismisses "gay rights activists" might say "oh and just another gay liberal being a gay liberal."

I hope I don't have to explain the English language again.
Maybe saying it is "just PETA complaining again" would be a better analogy. As a straight, white conservative liberal and a homosexual there is a difference in power, rights and influence, that changes the dynamic. There is a genuine grievance for homosexuals. It's better than it has been for thousands of years but its no where near right. Dismissing gay issues has a bigger effect considering the discrimination they have faced, 60 years ago you could still be jailed for being a homosexual.

Where have the fanboys been dismissed in an attempt to trample their civil rights? There is a world of difference.

Finally, there were no SATs when I was in school, guess I missed out on the fun. How about you discuss the issues, as is the purpose of the forums, instead of being patronising?
 

ThisNewGuy

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bjj hero said:
Maybe saying it is "just PETA complaining again" would be a better analogy. As a straight, white conservative liberal and a homosexual there is a difference in power, rights and influence, that changes the dynamic. There is a genuine grievance for homosexuals. It's better than it has been for thousands of years but its no where near right. Dismissing gay issues has a bigger effect considering the discrimination they have faced, 60 years ago you could still be jailed for being a homosexual.

Where have the fanboys been dismissed in an attempt to trample their civil rights? There is a world of difference.

Finally, there were no SATs when I was in school, guess I missed out on the fun. How about you discuss the issues, as is the purpose of the forums, instead of being patronising?
Again, the analogy is not actually on the legal issues behind gay rights. It's the dismissal by discrediting whatever anyone says as "whining."

Again, it's NOT about civil rights. It's about the analogy of people who just dismiss other people's opinion by labeling them with a discriminating name.

At this point, I'm sure nobody really wants to learn more about analogies, so if you still don't understand analogies at this point, there are better forums out there that'll help you.

Also, you didn't have to go through SATs? Wow, lucky you. Honestly though, analogies on that test were much much harder than the one I've used. They borderline nonsensical.
 

bjj hero

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ThisNewGuy said:
bjj hero said:
Maybe saying it is "just PETA complaining again" would be a better analogy. As a straight, white conservative liberal and a homosexual there is a difference in power, rights and influence, that changes the dynamic. There is a genuine grievance for homosexuals. It's better than it has been for thousands of years but its no where near right. Dismissing gay issues has a bigger effect considering the discrimination they have faced, 60 years ago you could still be jailed for being a homosexual.

Where have the fanboys been dismissed in an attempt to trample their civil rights? There is a world of difference.

Finally, there were no SATs when I was in school, guess I missed out on the fun. How about you discuss the issues, as is the purpose of the forums, instead of being patronising?
Again, the analogy is not actually on the legal issues behind gay rights. It's the dismissal by discrediting whatever anyone says as "whining."

Again, it's NOT about civil rights. It's about the analogy of people who just dismiss other people's opinion by labeling them with a discriminating name.

At this point, I'm sure nobody really wants to learn more about analogies, so if you still don't understand analogies at this point, there are better forums out there that'll help you.

Also, you didn't have to go through SATs? Wow, lucky you. Honestly though, analogies on that test were much much harder than the one I've used. They borderline nonsensical.
We're derailing the thread, if you want to discuss it any more then PM me.
 

Plurralbles

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It's the wii minus the kiddie. It's everything nintendo coul dhave made the wii but couldn't because it rather have soccer moms and grandpa playing instead of a teenager.

I love the Move. It looks cool and has the air of, "I'm better than the WIi in every way" going about it. At least it won't need a motionplus attachment to its gimmick.

Now hte PS3 can truly do EVERYTHING. " Everything you(Wii) can do I(PS3) can do better, everything you can do I can do too"