"Contrarian" Gamers Suck Says Treyarch
- Thread starter Greg Tito
- Start date
There's an invisible line between the right to say what you want, whenever you want, and the decency to not say it when it's unnecessary or insulting.
Unfortunately, the gaming community tends to disregard the later.
Unfortunately, the gaming community tends to disregard the later.
I think it's because developers like Valve and Bioware don't really suffer from comments like these as much as developers like Treyarch does.Woodsey said:
With games as big as COD, the developers are going to get alot of hate. Especially when someone brings up the eternal Infinity Ward vs. Treyarch argument.
BS.
While it's true that us gamers compalin about the stupidest things a lot, who have to ignore them and listin to the actual reasonable complaints and feedback.
That's why Bungie is so good at games: they interact with their community and go the extra mile for them.
While it's true that us gamers compalin about the stupidest things a lot, who have to ignore them and listin to the actual reasonable complaints and feedback.
That's why Bungie is so good at games: they interact with their community and go the extra mile for them.
Well, you've halfway said what I was talking about. What I meant was, certain industry figures/publishers/developers constantly fail to address issues, and then have the nerve to denounce gamers for complaining. . Treyarch have come out with a buggy mess that won't even run for a number of people, so they're getting a load more shit than normal.Jonny49 said:
Mark Rein of Epic is a perfect example too when it comes to PC gamers.
on one hand, yes, I agree with Treyarch, unreasonable bitching needs to stop (ie. "BLOPS ISN'T COD4, IT SUCKS, ME HATE DIFFERENT. STUPID CONSUMERISTS."). however, there does xist REASONABLE bitching. face it, BLOPS has a lot of glitches (apparently, I never saw them in the PS3 version...)
there are some things that need fixing. if Treyarch (or any developer really) decides to blatantly ignore what the fans are asking for, they have no right to complain when people ***** to them about those same problems they decided to ignore.
there are some things that need fixing. if Treyarch (or any developer really) decides to blatantly ignore what the fans are asking for, they have no right to complain when people ***** to them about those same problems they decided to ignore.
If you make a bad game people will ***** about it. And i Don't mean a game with flaws..... i mean a bad game. A game with flaws is Mass Effect 2 and Bioware's Forums are almost as clean as this one.
Also, that was a really immature and shiny way to answer such a good question. You could say anything, Like "Better storylines coming along" or "Let's break out of the Modern FPS nook"....
...instead this grown man says "Why are they mean to me! Waaaa..! [sob]"
Pathetic
Also, that was a really immature and shiny way to answer such a good question. You could say anything, Like "Better storylines coming along" or "Let's break out of the Modern FPS nook"....
...instead this grown man says "Why are they mean to me! Waaaa..! [sob]"
Pathetic
...and thus the Flame War to end all flame wars began. It is comical how bitching about other people's bitching can spiral out of control like that.
Josh Olin says "It's a creative industry - the most creative form of entertainment in existence".
And that makes me laugh.
I believe the most creative form of entertainment is Art.
I do NOT believe games are art.
I DO believe some games can attempt to emulate art. But this does not make them art.
Also, he's got a shitty lame job, so I don't hold anything against any statements he makes - he has a biased opinion towards gamers if he is subjected to monitoring an FPS community.
FPS games are all about shooting the fuck out your enemy! The majority of people who play them DO NOT CARE about trying to be (.....how do you word this....) caring of their criticism? I reckon that's probably the best way to describe their attitude - AND RIGHTLY SO! I play FPS games and like fuck do I care about ripping into games that suck.
Saying a game sucks is good cos then others become aware that there are improvements which must be made to the game.
However, saying exactly WHAT sucks about the game is even better.
AND THEN AGAIN, everyone is free to say what they want - as long as they abide by the forum rules and don't troll (unless the trolling is done in a pro style).
And that makes me laugh.
I believe the most creative form of entertainment is Art.
I do NOT believe games are art.
I DO believe some games can attempt to emulate art. But this does not make them art.
Also, he's got a shitty lame job, so I don't hold anything against any statements he makes - he has a biased opinion towards gamers if he is subjected to monitoring an FPS community.
FPS games are all about shooting the fuck out your enemy! The majority of people who play them DO NOT CARE about trying to be (.....how do you word this....) caring of their criticism? I reckon that's probably the best way to describe their attitude - AND RIGHTLY SO! I play FPS games and like fuck do I care about ripping into games that suck.
Saying a game sucks is good cos then others become aware that there are improvements which must be made to the game.
However, saying exactly WHAT sucks about the game is even better.
AND THEN AGAIN, everyone is free to say what they want - as long as they abide by the forum rules and don't troll (unless the trolling is done in a pro style).
God dam you can't just say they arn't being nice for christ sake if a game is bad don't complain about people moaning look at your game and see if it does have these problems (which black ops did, big style) and then try and fix these problems. this is why AC2 is a f**king mile better then AC1, i did an interview with the lead multiplayer designer and i told him i'm not a fan of COD online i'm just doing this becasue i had to he called me "A f**king ****** who needs to get off his gay japnesse rpgs and play like a f**king man!" and just as i was about to say i play the campaign COD just not the multiplayer. God dam i hate Treyarch they just don't listen
I agree with this. Black Ops left fans unsatisfied, and instead of trying to figure out how to satisfy the fans, Olin is whining about the fans expressing their dissatisfaction.Littaly said:
To me, this says that Olin is not a good fit for his position as Community Manager. A company's community reps aren't supposed to just collect accolades, but to field criticism and feedback from the fans. When a product fails to live up to its fans' standards, a lot of that feedback is going to be harsh. Trying to blame the fans and negativity when the product gets a lot of criticism is ridiculous.
A popular view by casual users is that the Internet is stuffed to the gills with trolls, people whose sole objective is to hurt the feelings of others. Fact is, the people on the Internet are human beings with generally human motivations. If they like your product, they won't punch you in the dick for it and try to make you ashamed that you released it. Instead, they'll be asking you for more. If you disappoint them, and they want to see better from you in the future, they'll rip your ass up until you get the message.
If the Black Ops community is too harsh for Mr Olin, perhaps he can turn over his position to someone who can handle criticism, and maybe come back after the company releases a better game.
I may be pretty new here, but its pretty clear to see this community is a group of long-term game players, most who will have been playing games way way before CoD3. Its easy for us to rationally criticize games, as we have experience, its my opinion that in comparison to CoD2 (The top of the series campaign-wise, in my eyes) BlOp's pales in comparison, and if I had the mind to I'd rationally lay out whats wrong in my eyes with BlOp's. But a lot of those who play BlOps are relatively new to gaming - 5.6 million sales of BlOp's on launch day in comparison to MW2's 4.7 million on launch.
Now whilst that's only launch day and many of the existing market may have preordered BlOp's and not MW2, there is still a huge new player influx there. Most of these people and those who have only ever played CoD or Halo have little to compare to, or just a few games to compare to - they like BlOp's, obviously, but know that certain thing are wrong, in some cases very wrong. Being pretty new they don't really understand how to describe and criticize mechanics, because they're new to them. Its like getting a car that runs well, and a car that doesn't. If you're not a mechanic or have had alot of experience with cars, you're hardly going to be able to tell one what the problem is beyond it not working as well. Quite simply if I were in the situation I'd probably just say "The car is shit/sucks".
All we can hope is that those who are new come to gaming because of CoD, but stay and broaden their horizons by experimenting with other games, and until then its up to developers to listen to the constructive criticism and hope that if ignored, players will seek out ways to present their arguments in a useful way. Speaking out like this will only make them more angry, and when you're angry seeking out rational arguments isn't a priority.
I want to make 2 things clear about my rant; 1: I know that some people will just do it for the sake of it, and trolling etc. 2: I have no concept of us being better than the "casuals", as many of their arguments will probably be valid and things we haven't thought of, its just that they can't translate it into something useful as they're not up to date on experience and terminology.
Now whilst that's only launch day and many of the existing market may have preordered BlOp's and not MW2, there is still a huge new player influx there. Most of these people and those who have only ever played CoD or Halo have little to compare to, or just a few games to compare to - they like BlOp's, obviously, but know that certain thing are wrong, in some cases very wrong. Being pretty new they don't really understand how to describe and criticize mechanics, because they're new to them. Its like getting a car that runs well, and a car that doesn't. If you're not a mechanic or have had alot of experience with cars, you're hardly going to be able to tell one what the problem is beyond it not working as well. Quite simply if I were in the situation I'd probably just say "The car is shit/sucks".
All we can hope is that those who are new come to gaming because of CoD, but stay and broaden their horizons by experimenting with other games, and until then its up to developers to listen to the constructive criticism and hope that if ignored, players will seek out ways to present their arguments in a useful way. Speaking out like this will only make them more angry, and when you're angry seeking out rational arguments isn't a priority.
I want to make 2 things clear about my rant; 1: I know that some people will just do it for the sake of it, and trolling etc. 2: I have no concept of us being better than the "casuals", as many of their arguments will probably be valid and things we haven't thought of, its just that they can't translate it into something useful as they're not up to date on experience and terminology.
To a point I agree, but with his job he should know better than anyone what that bitching is about. Partly it's because of shattered hopes and dreams (some of which are well in the realm of the company's fault) and partly it's constructive criticism posted in a non constructive way. Does it suck? Sure, but that's what you get when you let everyone express their opinion out loud and among others who might think the same.
I agree it's a trend I'd gladly see slowly die out, but the fact is, if you wade through some bullshit (that is seemingly getting less over time, but I could be wrong and biased due to my site choices), there is also a lot of constructive criticism/material there that you wouldn't otherwise get. Just swing the banhammer and don't let the jerks have their time of day and you're fine.
I agree it's a trend I'd gladly see slowly die out, but the fact is, if you wade through some bullshit (that is seemingly getting less over time, but I could be wrong and biased due to my site choices), there is also a lot of constructive criticism/material there that you wouldn't otherwise get. Just swing the banhammer and don't let the jerks have their time of day and you're fine.
Also, very, VERY much this ^Legion said:
100% accurate. Developers and publishers created their own problems. Listening to some lowly Community manager complain about the issue (who has no power over anything to make any positive changes) while representing one of the biggest titles so far to completely encompass everything mentioned above is just hypocritical.Legion said:
This isn't news and shouldn't be unless developers and publishers can take note of this and change.
There is an awful lot of irony coming from someone saying that gamers are stifling innovation when they're from a company beating a pile of wobbling giblets that once resembled a horse in the form of Call of Duty.
