Cop Tasers Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state

[Hosker]

Ah, another thread of someone doing something morally ambiguous and the ensuing incredibly long argument. *Yawn*

 

[IXIFatTonyIXI]

resonable force being the non-lethal weapons he had been given to apprehend offenders.

Shit of the bull.

There is a reason why even the US Justice Department has begun calling tasers and the like "less-lethal weapons". [1] [http://www.justice.gov/oig/reports/plus/e0903/final.pdf]

The officer clearly did not follow protocol and thanks to the insular nature of policing, got out of jail free on a technicality.

Yeah, LESS lethal as in: Non-Lethal except in accidents like this. The use of the wepon is A-O.K in my opinion, so was the INTENT, which EVERYONE seems to be ignoring, it's an unfortunate acident that she fell on her head.

No, in your analogy the person had done absolutely nothing wrong

They were talking back to me. How dare they upset the authoritarian order where the one in uniform is always right.

Much like running away, talking is clearly a good grounds for beating someone up mercilessly, don't you agree? Actually, talking to someone and disagreeing with them is obviously more agressive than running away, so it's an even better reason.

In the actual event the person already guilty of several crimes

I wasn't aware that in the US trials had been abolished for charges other than terrorism and copyright infringement as well. Since when has that been?

Yes, and in cases that the police officer cannot physically catch an offender what do they do? Just give up.

Exactly. Just about everybody gets caught later on anyway, or report themselves because living a fugitive sucks.

I agree that his physical state is a disgrace, and this guy is unfit for purpose, but the girl was not "peacefull" nor was the violence "deadly".

She had cuffs on and was running *away*. How can that possibly be violent? And she's dead. How could the violence not be deadly? Besides, like others have already argued, even US policeman are trained to understand what tasing someone does. That policeman made a concious decision to expose someone to grave harm, resulting in death, rather than trying to run after her.

And for that decision, he would've been punished in any justice system.

You said it, not me: "policemen try to enforce the law and arrest criminals with minimal force." using a tazer is a non-lethal method to stop someone breaking the law.

Which is tied to rules. Rules like "Don't kill people if you can just grab a hold of them". Although obviously, that rule didn't make it into the US police handbook. Much like was shown in the summary executions of Kenneth Harding and Michael Nida, and many other cases of weapon-crazed US cops shooting first and checking if it was allowed later.

And they wonder why in the US, more policemen are killed in a year than in most countries in a century. Well, because some offender quite rightly think "It's you or me, and I got these legal guns here anyway, so..."

Again, there was no intention of killing her.

Which is why he should be sacked from the police, and convicted for manslaughter, but not murder.

His only intent was aprehending her with minimal harm to both him and her.

That's not true. He used something close to maximal violence to aprehend her. The only more violent option would've been to draw his firearm and perform an extrajudicial execution on the spot.

Almost made the mistake of taking you seriously before this comment, troll.

 

[waj9876]

Sorry, I don't normally like to post two times unless I'm quoting someone, but I find this laughable.

I love how one of the arguments against the cop is that "She had drugs in her system, so she was more likely to slip into a coma." Totally the cops fault. Obviously.

In no way is it the fault of the person TAKING THE DAMN DRUGS. I'm sorry, this is just strange to me. Remember Internet? Back when you were good at finding out who the good guy and the bad guys were in a situation? When did someone taking drugs and therefore become more likely to go into a coma if injured, mean it's not their fault in any way?

 

[HigherTomorrow]

I don't really sympathize with the girl. She was running from the police. I read the article and apparently she was also drugged up and running towards an interstate. Not only that, but the cop in question was nearly 200 pounds heavier than the girl. Would it have been better for him to tackle her? A football player against a petite woman? Maybe he could have whacked her over the head with his baton?

Not 100% justified, but damn near close. Still, it's very unfortunate that she made those decisions, because really it was her lifestyle that caused her to end up that way.

 

[FarleShadow]

Ah, another police thread!
Pick your side:
Pro-'He's a cop, he's the LAW'-cop
Neg-'Fk da pigs maaan!'-cop

Bonus points will be awarded for increasing hostility in replies, overly verbose arguments, calling someone 'Adolf' and finally, comparing the incident to the holocaust.

We believe your opinion matters(tm).

 

[GoaThief]

What a cesspit of a thread. It's interesting that the overwhelming majority of non-US posters seem to think that the officer is massively in the wrong and the suspect - guilty of nothing more than running from police at this point - should not have been tased. The overwhelming majority of US posters are in full support of the officer, even going as far to say the woman deserved it and the officer was lenient by not unloading his firearm into her back. Oh, and it's a-OK to call her a subhuman braindead drug-addict but not to accuse the officer of being overweight - which he unarguably is - nor that it is his fault he's obese.

I bet they also wonder where the stereotype that Americans are fat, bloodthirsty knuckledraggers originates.

 

[Kopikatsu]

Ah, another police thread!
Pick your side:
Pro-'He's a cop, he's the LAW'-cop
Neg-'Fk da pigs maaan!'-cop

Bonus points will be awarded for increasing hostility in replies, overly verbose arguments, calling someone 'Adolf' and finally, comparing the incident to the holocaust.

We believe your opinion matters(tm).

You're too late. We've already had people comparing police procedure to mandating exterminating jews in this thread.

 

[GoaThief]

blah

Clearly you haven't read any material on taser safety and mortality rate, not even the link you quoted.

Less lethal = still leathal, but less lethal than shooting with a firearm.

A non-lethal weapon is something like a tonfa or pepperspray. Is it really that hard to understand?

 

[ElPatron]

Sorry, but whats your point? Shooting them is good because it costs taxpayers less so thats the way to go?

My point is that you are comparing tazing a fleeing perp to shooting an armed suspect about to chop a cop's head off.

Yea being tackled by someone who is supposed to be trained to tackle people would have killed her on the spot, because that the only thing worse than being in vegetative state I can think of...

I think I beg to differ.

You missed the point.

The tazer brought her down, and she couldn't protect herself, causing the damage to her brain.

A tackle brings you down. There is nothing you can do when you're cuffed. She would end up with either broken bones or actually ending up in a vegetative state anyway.


And then you would have a thread about people crying for cops to stop tackling people when they are cuffed.

 

[HigherTomorrow]

What a cesspit of a thread. It's interesting that the overwhelming majority of non-US posters seem to think that the officer is massively in the wrong and the suspect - guilty of nothing more than running from police at this point - should not have been tased. The overwhelming majority of US posters are in full support of the officer, even going as far to say the woman deserved it and the officer was lenient by not unloading his firearm into her back. Oh, and it's a-OK to call her a subhuman braindead drug-addict but not to accuse the officer of being overweight - which he unarguably is - nor that it is his fault he's obese.

I bet they also wonder where the stereotype that Americans are fat, bloodthirsty knuckledraggers originates.

Hey look, I can do this too!
Isn't it interesting that all the non-Americans think the girl was right in running away from the cops? That must mean that all non-Americans hate justice and the law and want to plunge the world into anarchy, those bastards! How peculiar that the US-people are 100% behind this paragon of justice. Americans are the greatest people in the world because they love this kind of justice, as well as their baseball and apple pie.

See, I can make up things in order to stereotype groups and prove points, too. Even attempting to imply that the sides of this argument are in relation to whether or not one side fits a stereotype basically kills any argument you attempt to make.

 

[DarthSka]

"I know that I can?t just jump on her. I?m three times her weight. If we go down, one, or both of us, is going to get hurt. The taser is the intermediate weapon of choice,"

Now, I don't know if that's what he really felt at the time, but I'm just going to go ahead and leave that explanation as justification. Hell, if he had tackled her while both of them were running and injured her, this discussion would simply be named "Cop Tackles Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state," instead, and everyone blasting the cop would be demanding to know why he didn't just use a taser.

 

[luckshot]

What a cesspit of a thread. It's interesting that the overwhelming majority of non-US posters seem to think that the officer is massively in the wrong and the suspect - guilty of nothing more than running from police at this point - should not have been tased. The overwhelming majority of US posters are in full support of the officer, even going as far to say the woman deserved it and the officer was lenient by not unloading his firearm into her back. Oh, and it's a-OK to call her a subhuman braindead drug-addict but not to accuse the officer of being overweight - which he unarguably is - nor that it is his fault he's obese.

I bet they also wonder where the stereotype that Americans are fat, bloodthirsty knuckledraggers originates.

Hey look, I can do this too!
Isn't it interesting that all the non-Americans think the girl was right in running away from the cops? That must mean that all non-Americans hate justice and the law and want to plunge the world into anarchy, those bastards! How peculiar that the US-people are 100% behind this paragon of justice. Americans are the greatest people in the world because they love this kind of justice, as well as their baseball and apple pie.

See, I can make up things in order to stereotype groups and prove points, too. Even attempting to imply that the sides of this argument are in relation to whether or not one side fits a stereotype basically kills any argument you attempt to make.

exactly, i read it as 'girl takes drugs, performs at least 2 hit and runs, continually escapes handcuffs, and runs from station gets tazed and lands on her head'

yes tragic SHE chose to take drugs and that SHE committed several crimes and then SHE chose to run from a police station resulting in getting a severe head injury

maybe some people think that anyone who runs from cops should just be let go

 

[SickBritKid]

Yea being tackled by someone who is supposed to be trained to tackle people would have killed her on the spot, because that the only thing worse than being in vegetative state I can think of...

I think I beg to differ.

*facepalm*

Read. My. Post.

Even when trained to tackle someone, a guy who outweighs a person by at least ONE HUNDRED POUNDS is going to do some damage, no ifs ands or buts.

 

[Kopikatsu]

"I know that I can?t just jump on her. I?m three times her weight. If we go down, one, or both of us, is going to get hurt. The taser is the intermediate weapon of choice,"

Now, I don't know if that's what he really felt at the time, but I'm just going to go ahead and leave that explanation as justification. Hell, if he had tackled her while both of them were running and injured her, this discussion would simply be named "Cop Tackles Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state," instead, and everyone blasting the cop would be demanding to know why he didn't just use a taser.

Or fire a warning shot. Can't please some...most people. May as well not even bother to try.

 

[DarthSka]

"I know that I can?t just jump on her. I?m three times her weight. If we go down, one, or both of us, is going to get hurt. The taser is the intermediate weapon of choice,"

Now, I don't know if that's what he really felt at the time, but I'm just going to go ahead and leave that explanation as justification. Hell, if he had tackled her while both of them were running and injured her, this discussion would simply be named "Cop Tackles Fleeing Handcuffed Girl, Head injuries put her in vegetative state," instead, and everyone blasting the cop would be demanding to know why he didn't just use a taser.

Or fire a warning shot.

Her brain was full of cocaine, and she was heading for a busy road. In her altered mental state, she might not have responded to the shot. He had to stop her with with the option that had the least chance of hurting her. In this situation, the taser fit that bill. The fact that it did cause her harm was simply bad luck.

 

[GoaThief]

exactly, i read it as 'girl takes drugs,

Yes, she did. That in itself is not a crime, possession of drugs would be but not their consumption. Also, it's worth noting that although she tested positive for those drugs they could have been ingested at any point, eg; months in the past with traces in hair follicles. Either way it's pretty irrelevant.

performs at least 2 hit and runs

No, she was wanted in connection with. Big difference. She could have been a passenger whilst someone else was driving - either way this would need to be settled in court. It is not for police officers to act as judge, jury and in this case, executioner (even if unintentional).

continually escapes handcuffs, and runs from station

Yes, she is guilty of this. As I stated.

gets tazed

She was tased by accident? No. The officer clearly did not follow guidelines.

and lands on her head

The direct result of the above which should have been avoided.

yes tragic SHE chose to take drugs and that SHE committed several crimes and then SHE chose to run from a police station resulting in getting a severe head injury

Yes, it is fucking tragic numbnuts. That's just the thing. A life has been needlessly lost, all due to an authority figure directly ignoring guidelines put in place which should prevent incidents like this from happening. Remember that the police need to be held to a higher standard than the general public they are sworn to protect and serve.

maybe some people think that anyone who runs from cops should just be let go

Please point out the multiple examples of people stating that the suspect in question should have been allowed to go free, without charge.

 

[Thaluikhain]

Or fire a warning shot. Can't please some...most people. May as well not even bother to try.

Discharging a firearm randomly up in the air in a city is generally discouraged.

Also, if you are running from teh cops, and they start firing, RUN FASTER!

 

[Fishyash]

Hindsight is 20/20. I don't think ANYBODY would be expecting the brain damage she recieved from the concussion.

I would have thought the cop would have put her in a state that she couldn't have escaped in the first place. I dunno, just hold her arm tightly or chain her to something?

I would have hoped the cop would have attempted to just grab her as soon as she was about to run away.

I would have thought the cop would have some sense to not just let her fall on the ground after tazing her. Was he too far away to catch her?

I would have thought a fall like that wouldn't cause her severe brain damage. Honestly nobody is at fault for the brain damage, it was completely unexpected and NOBODY could have predicted that. It's about as expected as someone having to amputate a leg when it gets broken.

And lastly, I would have thought the girl would have some sense to NOT run away.

I think the cop was acting lazy though, there was probably an easier solution than using a taser, especially since the handcuffed woman shown no threat to either his, or anybody nearby's well being.

 

[GoaThief]

He had to stop her with with the option that had the least chance of hurting her.

So are you honestly going to sit there telling the world that the officer did not have the option of grabbing her with his pudgy bare hands, completely negating the need for contact with the ground (aside from feet). Calling for backup and following is also a non-option? More to the point, a taser clearly does not fit any "maximum safety" bill in that situation. A taser is one step down from using a firearm. This means that even pulling out his baton and hitting her with it is more acceptable and appropriate.

It seems that taser use in the US is so prevalent that even the general public now think it is a perfectly acceptable method of obtaining compliance from a weak and non-violent suspect.