Coronavirus vaccine with 90% protection was just announced.

Agema

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We are still not out of the woods yet and we don't know when it's going to be finished. I've heard anything between the third week of November to the beginning of 2021 but this is great news.
There's potentially another big deal here from a purely scientific/technological perspective, because I think this will be the first successful vaccine created via a novel mRNA process that has thus far only been successful in animals.
 

Gergar12

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Let the first responders take it first, people with health problems, then teachers and the old, then middle-aged people, then us young people, then kids.

Also, I hate wearing a mask, I do it, but it feels weird.
 

Asita

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Interesting timing...
Not really? I mean I literally had this conversation back when we first got into lockdown. Most estimates had suggested we'd probably getting a vaccine for the thing out around early 2021. If they get emergency approval to further speed it along, they'd get to start distributing it by December 2020, a little faster than expected but not by much, especially when you consider that under those same circumstances they'd only be able to produce around 50 million doses (covering 25 million people, as two doses are needed per person) by the end of 2020. So the timing is more or less as expected.
 

Trunkage

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Let the first responders take it first, people with health problems, then teachers and the old, then middle-aged people, then us young people, then kids.

Also, I hate wearing a mask, I do it, but it feels weird.
Mostly okay list. One addition. Somewhere just after teachers, service/grocery workers should get priority. With the amount of shit they've had to deal with too they deserve it. And it's probably one of the highest chances of spreading the virus. It can also let a whole bunch of people back in business who cant Zoom like most people
 

Secondhand Revenant

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Mostly okay list. One addition. Somewhere just after teachers, service/grocery workers should get priority. With the amount of shit they've had to deal with too they deserve it. And it's probably one of the highest chances of spreading the virus. It can also let a whole bunch of people back in business who cant Zoom like most people
Yeah, like they will be some of the people interacting the most

Tbh quite frankly I think they need it sooner than teachers and teachers should stay long distance longer. You can't make groceries long distance exactly (I mean you could order them but someone still has to interact)
 

Secondhand Revenant

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tstorm823

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Lmao... I wonder if anyone's would fall for that. Well ig given Trump followers god I wonder who's gonna fall for that
Well, as always, anytime the news tells you something is "without evidence" it means there's totally evidence but the news isn't interested in seeing it. I HATE "without evidence". You're the news, you're supposed to find the evidence!

Regardless, it's not really a grand conspiracy if they did hold off an announcement until after the election. Part of good medicine is getting patients to consent to it, and with Trump making a hypothetical vaccine into a self-declared political win, announcing right before the election would be spun as campaigning for Trump, which would immediately put half the country off of them. I doubt waiting to announce would have negative impacts on when the vaccine can be delivered, but even if it did delay implementation, there'd still be an argument it's the correct decision for the purpose of immunizing the public.
 

Silvanus

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Well, as always, anytime the news tells you something is "without evidence" it means there's totally evidence but the news isn't interested in seeing it. I HATE "without evidence". You're the news, you're supposed to find the evidence!
But Trump and Jr are the ones making the claim. The burden of proof falls on them. If they've presented literally nothing (or, in Giuliani's case for the fraud allegations, presented guff that's already been debunked), what are the news orgs supposed to do?

Pretend there might be evidence? Keep searching for it, on a neverending snipe hunt? Or tell the fucking truth: that the claim was made without any basis?

===

There've been a few forumites saying The Escapist is an "echo-chamber" recently. Perhaps it's because we're not just discussing moderate conservative views with moderate conservatives; increasingly we're just being presented with a parade of inane conspiracy theories and furious denial of reality.

I expect any reasonable place to be an "echo-chamber" about whether the moon landings were faked or not, because one position on that question is utterly insane and it shouldn't really be coming up.
 
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Secondhand Revenant

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Well, as always, anytime the news tells you something is "without evidence" it means there's totally evidence but the news isn't interested in seeing it. I HATE "without evidence". You're the news, you're supposed to find the evidence!

Regardless, it's not really a grand conspiracy if they did hold off an announcement until after the election. Part of good medicine is getting patients to consent to it, and with Trump making a hypothetical vaccine into a self-declared political win, announcing right before the election would be spun as campaigning for Trump, which would immediately put half the country off of them. I doubt waiting to announce would have negative impacts on when the vaccine can be delivered, but even if it did delay implementation, there'd still be an argument it's the correct decision for the purpose of immunizing the public.
That first bit is nonsense. To take this to an extreme, if Trump claimed we were invaded by aliens and the news said this was claimed without evidence they wouldn't be failing for not finding it. It's not on them to find evidence for something that someone else claimed to be true without evidence. Such evidence may not even exist. There's no reason to say the news isn't interested in seeing it, we haven't even establish such evidence exists in the first place...

Also I think if they're speculating to that degree on the public's reaction they're probably going way out of what their job is or what they could accurately predict and that sounds like they'd be doing weird tactics for questionable gain. Not a big deal if it's not delaying anything but I think that'd be rather out there.
 

happyninja42

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Just be honest, and say you suspect that they held it back in order to cost Trump the election, even though no vaccine in history has ever been approved this quickly.

That's what you're insinuating, isn't it, in a nudge-nudge-wink-wink way?
I know right? I mean trump declaring he'd have a vaccine by Nov 1 (right before the election) isn't equally "interesting timing that isn't at all politically motivated"
 

tstorm823

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But Trump and Jr are the ones making the claim. The burden of proof falls on them. If they've presented literally nothing (or, in Giuliani's case for the fraud allegations, presented guff that's already been debunked), what are the news orgs supposed to do?
Not report it. It isn't news.

If they want to research it and present the statements along with supporting evidence, sure, that's a news report.
If they want to research it and present the statements along with contradictory evidence, sure, that's a news report.
If they post the quote and say "we couldn't be bothered, the burden of proof is on them", that's not a news report.

Would we like some evidence to support the claim?
Pfizer claimed for months they'd have data by the end of October
There were some reports in October that Pfizer had their plans for emergency use put together and scheduled for this month, something you'd imagine wouldn't be scheduled without reesults.
Within even that article that claims there was no evidence in the headline, it says that they did delay announcing results. They originally intended an announcement once they had 32 people get infected, and instead waited until there were 94 infections. So there confirmed was a delay, just not necessarily political. But then we see there behavior after the announcement, and can see them working very hard to distance themselves from politics, so we know they're acutely aware of it and we're making decisions to avoid politics before vaccine development even started.

There's plenty of reason to believe they could have known the results of the trials before Monday. Again, if they did delay announcement until after the election, I don't fault them. And like, unless there's a smoking gun where someone wrote down "delay results until after election", nobody is going to be able to evidence intent. But like, why does that news article not tell you all this stuff? Why does that article criticizing Trump not mention Pfizer intended to announce results last month and didn't? They're feeding the people who just want to hate Trump, and gaslighting anyone who might disagree with them.
 

Silvanus

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Not report it. It isn't news.

If they want to research it and present the statements along with supporting evidence, sure, that's a news report.
If they want to research it and present the statements along with contradictory evidence, sure, that's a news report.
If they post the quote and say "we couldn't be bothered, the burden of proof is on them", that's not a news report.
Just not report... that the President of the United States is spreading a conspiracy theory?

It seems to me you want the media to act as a filter, doing the work of the President's press team for him. Sorry, but that's not their job.

Would we like some evidence to support the claim?
Pfizer claimed for months they'd have data by the end of October
There were some reports in October that Pfizer had their plans for emergency use put together and scheduled for this month, something you'd imagine wouldn't be scheduled without reesults.
Gasp! Their estimated timescale was off by a couple of weeks, on a project to develop a vaccine faster than has ever been accomplished before! Conspiracy!

Give me a break, this is genuinely getting a bit pathetic. I'm reminded of that clown Giuliani pulled in front of the cameras at the garden centre, claiming that the ballots are fraudulent because he saw some of them seemed to be filled in with "the same kind of strange pen".
 
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