Could Batman defeat the entire Avengers?
- Thread starter Parasondox
- Start date
Yes, but I don't see it making a lot of sense.
The Doylist explanation is that it depends on the writer, so given enough bullshit, they can make anyone defeat anyone. They even made a comic about how The Punisher or Deadpool could kill all the Avengers... yes, even the likes of Hulk and Wolverine.
The Watsonian explanation would be something about planning, resources and training; but seriously... in hand-to-hand combat even Captain America and Black Widow could give him a run for his money.
The Doylist explanation is that it depends on the writer, so given enough bullshit, they can make anyone defeat anyone. They even made a comic about how The Punisher or Deadpool could kill all the Avengers... yes, even the likes of Hulk and Wolverine.
The Watsonian explanation would be something about planning, resources and training; but seriously... in hand-to-hand combat even Captain America and Black Widow could give him a run for his money.
This reminds me of "Given 24 hours prep, who would win: The Predator or Kevin from Home Alone?"
And like that question, I give the victory to Kevin/Bruce.
And like that question, I give the victory to Kevin/Bruce.
Very much this. I'm a Batman fan and even I'm pretty tired of the "Batman can take down anyone no matter-fucking-what". I can see him being successful with a plan to similar to that of the villain in Civil WarAccursedTheory said:
As in, acting similar to Zemo by sowing distrust and division within the Avengers using sneaky espionage and guerilla tactics to get them to start fighting one another before trying to take them out.
The danger for him is being found out. Thor would probably be the major threat since he doesn't have any obvious weaknesses and it seems reasonable to me that Batman could find a way to knock out Tony's suit or prevent Banner from transforming/get the hulk out of the game.
Animated Batman could get the job done maybe. Rubber suit/march down main street/murder Batman from the Nolan movies and BVS no way.
All he needed was one Batarang to take out Sinestro. I think he's got this. Movie Batman would get floored.JUMBO PALACE said:
It all depends on the writer, if I wasn't on mobile I'd post that Stan Lee video where he states that whoever wins in a versus fight is whoever the author wants to win. Which is always the answer, a good author could justify batman somehow defeating the avengers and even make it believable and entertaining. The same is true of any open ended scenario like that though, you could have a believable story where captain America beats the justice league, or black widow beats superman, or green arrow beats the hulk.
Any type of hero like batman basically has the superpower of technological convenience, his money and intelligence means he can do pull any bullshit scifi technology or item he needs to accomplish his goals, it's like golden age superman getting new powers every week to fit the situation he's in, except using technology instead of superpowers.
A hero with less powers may need to work harder or need a longer storyline to justify their victory, but in the end you can always justify it, it may take longer than being able to justify superman just punching batman into the sun, but it's still always possible.
Any type of hero like batman basically has the superpower of technological convenience, his money and intelligence means he can do pull any bullshit scifi technology or item he needs to accomplish his goals, it's like golden age superman getting new powers every week to fit the situation he's in, except using technology instead of superpowers.
A hero with less powers may need to work harder or need a longer storyline to justify their victory, but in the end you can always justify it, it may take longer than being able to justify superman just punching batman into the sun, but it's still always possible.
Has Batman ever taken on an entire squad of super heroes/villains before? I suppose in such a story line where he would it would most likely be Batman versus one at a time until each member of the group was taken care of instead of all at once.
And Robin, Nightwing and other Batman specific allies would be included.
I think in most cases watching a "Batman loses to _____ because he was ambushed" wouldn't be very interesting on it's own as a story line as most ANY character could potentially do that to Batman.
What I find particularly boring is when wounded heroes seem to continue their physics defying feats despite massive (real world wise) injuries that should cripple most people. Especially when it comes to non-meta-human characters who don't even have super-anything-human abilities. I noticed this in the DC comic movies. So-and-so gets stabbed in both his shoulders but he's still able to upper cut someone unconscious let alone still move either of his arms (THROUGH the shoulders, not just a flesh would poke or slice).
I find this particularly dis-interesting when Superman becomes weakened by non-kryptonite means or fighting a strong opponent whose able to knock him back. Because he then just "tries a little bit harder" and you realize once again that there never really was any threat to begin with.
Suspension of disbelief when it comes to whether any one (say Batman) can learn all the abilities and talents necessary to pull off what Batman can do, I'm fine with that. That's what you get when you read Batman. But getting shot in the stomach or have your head crushed into cement and then you've got some real world association with how much a person of any merit could withstand. I think worse off is how little time one really needs to recuperate in comics. They get hurt and it takes a whole week to recover it seems like. A real person takes months or years to full recover from serious injuries.
And Robin, Nightwing and other Batman specific allies would be included.
I think in most cases watching a "Batman loses to _____ because he was ambushed" wouldn't be very interesting on it's own as a story line as most ANY character could potentially do that to Batman.
What I find particularly boring is when wounded heroes seem to continue their physics defying feats despite massive (real world wise) injuries that should cripple most people. Especially when it comes to non-meta-human characters who don't even have super-anything-human abilities. I noticed this in the DC comic movies. So-and-so gets stabbed in both his shoulders but he's still able to upper cut someone unconscious let alone still move either of his arms (THROUGH the shoulders, not just a flesh would poke or slice).
I find this particularly dis-interesting when Superman becomes weakened by non-kryptonite means or fighting a strong opponent whose able to knock him back. Because he then just "tries a little bit harder" and you realize once again that there never really was any threat to begin with.
Suspension of disbelief when it comes to whether any one (say Batman) can learn all the abilities and talents necessary to pull off what Batman can do, I'm fine with that. That's what you get when you read Batman. But getting shot in the stomach or have your head crushed into cement and then you've got some real world association with how much a person of any merit could withstand. I think worse off is how little time one really needs to recuperate in comics. They get hurt and it takes a whole week to recover it seems like. A real person takes months or years to full recover from serious injuries.
You know, This batman 'plan ahead' bullshit just makes the rest of DC characters seem really, really dumb.
He's not even the smartest man on the planet. That's Lex. Mr Terrific, Batman's teammate, is smarter than him. Mr. Terrific is actually the third smartest man on the planet. Does that mean Batman can plan for people who can readily outthink him, or who use their intelligence just as much as him? Do these smarter 'threats' just not think about Batman because they believe they have other fish to fry?
I can tell you YEARS from now that I'm going to capture you before hand. Once captured I'll give you a month to prepare with all the stuff that you need, but you will be at a location 30 days after the capture, and I am going to aim a Rail Gun at your chest. I'll make sure you get the best everything ahead of time with no limitation.
I will even count down. But if I have a proper targeting system, It will not matter how long you had because you're still a human with human limitations. You can not dodge it. You can not react faster than seven times the speed of sound.
And the thought that a man who's really, really determined can some how react fast enough to set his plan into motion with beings who can fly to other galaxies. A Superman (if you will) who flew through a moon off of Saturn literally 4 minutes after he found out that Luthor became president. Saturn. A planet that's 746 million miles (1.2 billion kilometers) away when the two planets are closest to each other in space.
Batman can plan ahead for that shit.
He's not even the smartest man on the planet. That's Lex. Mr Terrific, Batman's teammate, is smarter than him. Mr. Terrific is actually the third smartest man on the planet. Does that mean Batman can plan for people who can readily outthink him, or who use their intelligence just as much as him? Do these smarter 'threats' just not think about Batman because they believe they have other fish to fry?
I can tell you YEARS from now that I'm going to capture you before hand. Once captured I'll give you a month to prepare with all the stuff that you need, but you will be at a location 30 days after the capture, and I am going to aim a Rail Gun at your chest. I'll make sure you get the best everything ahead of time with no limitation.
I will even count down. But if I have a proper targeting system, It will not matter how long you had because you're still a human with human limitations. You can not dodge it. You can not react faster than seven times the speed of sound.
And the thought that a man who's really, really determined can some how react fast enough to set his plan into motion with beings who can fly to other galaxies. A Superman (if you will) who flew through a moon off of Saturn literally 4 minutes after he found out that Luthor became president. Saturn. A planet that's 746 million miles (1.2 billion kilometers) away when the two planets are closest to each other in space.
Batman can plan ahead for that shit.
Thor does have a weakness: becoming unworthy of wielding Mjolnir. Although having that happen wouldn't incapacitate him like Kryptonite does to Superman, he'd be knocked down to a level that Batman could find a way to deal with him.JUMBO PALACE said:
The question is, could Batman figure out a way to make Thor unworthy that wouldn't be against his own moral code? For instance, planting a baby at a battle scene where Thor would accidentally kill it would be right out. Perhaps a variant of Scarecrow's drug could cause Thor to hallucinate an experience that made him think he was unworthy. However, since I don't read comics, I don't know if Thor's relationship with his hammer works that way.
The answer to OP's question is simply "depends on how much time of their life a writer is willing to waste to figure out how to do it."
The thing is, that weakness plan that Batman came up with end up using by a villain not Batman himself. I mean Batman would had timed it better and even then has there been a comic that Batman had to face the JL all at once? Well ok that was that comics when he did had to face them when they got infected by the Joker venom.
OT- He probably would come up with a weaknness plan. Just an example-
Hulk- Attack him when he's Bruce Banner
Hawkeye- same weakness as Green Arrow
As for using that plan in action, whose knows unless some villain stole his plans first?!
Granted I have no idea how he would take out Cap or Thor. I mean with Wonder Woman, from the animated film she had a warrior heart as in never given up which was totally stupid (she was hallucinating that she was fighting Cheetah for every person she see).
OT- He probably would come up with a weaknness plan. Just an example-
Hulk- Attack him when he's Bruce Banner
Hawkeye- same weakness as Green Arrow
As for using that plan in action, whose knows unless some villain stole his plans first?!
Granted I have no idea how he would take out Cap or Thor. I mean with Wonder Woman, from the animated film she had a warrior heart as in never given up which was totally stupid (she was hallucinating that she was fighting Cheetah for every person she see).
Here's how it goes down: Batman throws an EMP to defeat Ironman. Sprays some docility concoction on Hulk, knocks out the now not-so-angry Bruce Banner. Posses sexily towards Thor, causing him to think impure thoughts or whatever while flying, causing him to fall so hard he gets knocked out. Boom anti-super-soldier serum, down goes Cap. Lures Black Widow into a dark abandoned building where an epic choreographed cat-and-mouse fight scene ends with batman's victory... and then as Batman proclaims victory, Hawkeye shoots him in the ass and he passes out. Roll credits.
Does that ever work, in any of the versions of the Hulk? Hell, the movie Banner explicitly says that he shot himself in the head, and the Hulk spit the bullet out. And I can't think of any time Banner was chemically restrained where it wasn't just a matter of time before The Hulk springs out anyway.Scarim Coral said:
Well... that's kind of debatable. DCAU Batman has had his plans activated against the Justice League, with great success (Only failing because it wasn't Batman pulling the trigger), but that's only believable (And it is believable), because that version of the DC characters aren't retardedly powerful.JUMBO PALACE said:
Using the MCU roster, before Civil War, I would've said no, but that movie made them all look pretty stupid when it comes to tactical acumen ("Don't worry guys, even though I've got a sonic pulse which cripples people and the power of flight, I'm going to ignore all that and try to hit Captain America with this stick"). Now the only one I'll say no to is Vision, who's literally immune to punching and pretty technologically resilient as well.
Iron Man, War Machine, Falcon, and Ant-Man all have their powers based on technology which Bruce has no problem counteracting. Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Black Widow, and Hawkeye all are basically without powers and just use basic combat techniques/a freaking bow and arrow. I have no doubt he can overcome those odds. Captain's a toss up, as Batman could probably beat him hand to hand, but Captain has the writers on his side, who have no problem giving him whatever powers they feel he deserves at the moment (such as the ability to punch Iron Man into submission, despite Iron Man's suit taking a direct hit from Mjolnir before).
Hulk and Thor are obviously stronger, but then Batman is much, much smarter than both of them, so I'm sure he can figure something out.
Scarlet Witch definitely outpowers him. But she's easily beaten by a sonic blast and fucking Hawkeye of all people, so she won't be a problem.
So really, I'll say everyone except Vision.
Iron Man, War Machine, Falcon, and Ant-Man all have their powers based on technology which Bruce has no problem counteracting. Winter Soldier, Black Panther, Black Widow, and Hawkeye all are basically without powers and just use basic combat techniques/a freaking bow and arrow. I have no doubt he can overcome those odds. Captain's a toss up, as Batman could probably beat him hand to hand, but Captain has the writers on his side, who have no problem giving him whatever powers they feel he deserves at the moment (such as the ability to punch Iron Man into submission, despite Iron Man's suit taking a direct hit from Mjolnir before).
Hulk and Thor are obviously stronger, but then Batman is much, much smarter than both of them, so I'm sure he can figure something out.
Scarlet Witch definitely outpowers him. But she's easily beaten by a sonic blast and fucking Hawkeye of all people, so she won't be a problem.
So really, I'll say everyone except Vision.
Don't they normally frown upon "This fictional character could beat up this fictional character!" topics?
Eh, we're here and it hasn't been locked yet, so I'll play along...
...by saying what should be patently obvious:
Batman will always win provided he is given time to research his foe and create countermeasures for them.
If Batman is just walking down the street - erm, jumping across the rooftops I guess
- and the Avengers come down and start a fight, I doubt he'd stand a chance since he doesn't have any time to plan ahead and/or create gadgets that can counter-act them. His standard load-out is indeed built for versatility, but taking down the likes of Thor or Hulk would definitely require research to determine a weakness.
Eh, we're here and it hasn't been locked yet, so I'll play along...
...by saying what should be patently obvious:
Batman will always win provided he is given time to research his foe and create countermeasures for them.
If Batman is just walking down the street - erm, jumping across the rooftops I guess
- and the Avengers come down and start a fight, I doubt he'd stand a chance since he doesn't have any time to plan ahead and/or create gadgets that can counter-act them. His standard load-out is indeed built for versatility, but taking down the likes of Thor or Hulk would definitely require research to determine a weakness.
Uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuhhhhhhhhh Newcastle maybe?Parasondox said:
Yes. Because the power of money and genius is absolute.
To make it not feel half-assed, yes.
The P-
You do this on purpose just to spoil my fun, DON'T UUUUUUU
Batman's a Godmode Sue. He can take them all on "with time to prepare" because why the hell not? It's not like there's anything preparation can't ever account for.
I believe this topic may take a lot more effort than the original creators ever could muster. Are we merely destined to argue over the level of hypothetical benefit of the doubt over another benefit of the doubt? It is really the battle of the imaginations...or is there a correct way? My answer is impossible to attain. Maybe Stark could produce the panama papers and highlight a connection to Wayne industries. That might make bats shed a tear of shame or two, then someone competent enough can go in for the kill.