Could You Date A Transexual?

[SUPA FRANKY]

Most likely not. I'd definaetely be freinds with them, and tink nothing less of them, but dating them? Nope.

1.) I want kids, though we're dating, so make of that what you will.
2.) My parents would hate me forever.
3.) A bit to squicky for me. Changing your genitals just seems uncanny to me.

But whatever you want to do with your body, go for it. I'll gladly befriend Trans gender people. But dating is just a bit to weird for me.

 

[xochiquetzal]

I would.

As a bisexual woman I can't say it would be difficult to date MtF or FtM trans person.
I'd probably date him/her even if the transformation wasn't complete and it was a female
with a penis or a man with a vagina.

that benign sedd, one day I want children and that might get complicated if I
want them to be the father or mother.

 

[tjbond911]

I'd have to say no. I'm sorry to people who have gone under the knife for this kind of stuff but I find it kind of disgusting that people try to change their gender. If you're gay, lesbian, bi-sexual, that's ok because that's the way you were born and nobody should stop you from being open about it. But in my opinion you were born the gender you were for a reason and that's the way you should stay. To me it doesn't matter how many surgeries you got, youre still a member of your original gender. Sorry If I'm being harsh. I wouldn't hate a person for doing it though.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

Women are crazy, so if there were someone who fit my other dating criteria with a man's mind, and a woman's parts, I think I'd be all over that.

So you know, more the point of transgendered is "mind and parts don't match".[footnote]That is, a man in the body of a girl or a woman in the body of a boy[/footnote] Transexual means that "mind and body now match, but both are different from birth sex".[footnote]A person born with a penis had a girls brain and now has a girls body, for example[/footnote] To say that a person "has a man's mind and a woman's parts" would more accurately refer to a transgendered male.

[HEADING=3]Side note about terminology:[/HEADING]

1) transgendered VS transsexual - difference between mind and parts VS surgery to make the mind and parts match

2) trans[X] guy/male VS trans[X] girl/female - in all cases, you are supposed to use the individuals preferred gender. A male mind in a girls body is a transgendered guy, a person born a guy who had surgery to become a girl is a transexual girl.

3) trans[X] vs non-trans[X] - this is more a side note about a side note, but it is a bit mean/insensitive to call people who aren't trans "normal".[footnote]For clarification, that is because it implies that a trans person is not normal[/footnote] The terminology for a male born with a mans parts is "cis male"/"cis guy" and for a girl with girl parts is "cis girl" or "cis female".

3.5) I dunno what "cis" refers to specifically.

I think it's an oblique reference to cis vs trans double bonds in a fatty acid molecule (http://www.diffen.com/difference/Cis_Fat_vs_Trans_Fat) - you know, trans fats are only typically occur unnaturally through technology (through a hydrogenation process using polyunsaturated plant fatty acid/oil. They also actually happen to be bad for you, but I don't think that's part of the definition here) Cis fatty acid bonds are naturally occurring.

Which makes sense - cis is for the male mind in male body or female mind in female body as the 'norm' while trans for the male mind in female to male altered body etc as the 'technologically converted'.

Not to say that gender mismatch isn't naturally occurring.

Oh well.. Trans means across and Cis means on the same side as, (which explains why the fats have their relative designations) so trans males have to transition their body to male to match their outlook/mind/brain-patterns/hormones while cis males have their body on the same side as their brain etc..

Ok, this is really rubbing me the wrong way, being a chemistry nerd and all:
1. There are naturally occuring trans fatty acids, found in milk and dairy products. Not a lot but there are some.

2. I highly doubt that a community would wish to name itself after fatty acids of all things, especially since the terms "cis-" and "trans-" are used in chemistry to identify isomers of molecules and are not solely used for fatty acids.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cis%E2%80%93trans_isomerism

3. Really, why the f*ck would any group wish to name itself after fatty acids of all things.

Perhaps I wasn't clear when I edited it .. ok sure, there's probably trans fatty acids naturally occurring. But hydrogenation of oils is done artificially and is bad for you.

That aside, I realised in my edit that cis and trans would likely have been independently used for both situations, I was just drawing parallels between the two, because I'm working in an oils lab so it's on my mind to some degree.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

As a scientist, I just want to chip in on the absolutely disgusting amount of biological determinism on this thread and remind everyone that "this affects that" or "this has been observed" are just observations that A) are likely to be incomplete or outright wrong because of faulty methods or limited understanding on the subject, B) imply no causation or correlation, strictly speaking, as it is possible those findings do not support the conclusions derived from them, and C) even if the logic, conclusions and findings are indeed airtight, biology is not fate. Being born with this or that gene, having this or that hormone or brain structure, being this or that way has nothing to do with what you are.

You can be whatever you want to be, and people using biology to say "you can't be that" are douchebags who should stay the hell away from science because they are clearly not capable of using science's findings responsibly. Science is not a tool to oppress. Stop using science to justify bigotry, you're giving biology, genetics, endocrinology and neurology (as well as who knows how many other fields) a bad name.

You mean you can have whatever social identity you want. Regardless, you can't biologically bear a child (at least for the male to female conversion) because you don't have the right wiring however. And if you're female to male conversion, you can't provide sperm. Even people who do have the right wiring may not have it functioning adequately however.

 

[Darken12]

You mean you can have whatever social identity you want. Regardless, you can't biologically bear a child (at least for the male to female conversion) because you don't have the right wiring however. And if you're female to male conversion, you can't provide sperm. Even people who do have the right wiring may not have it functioning adequately however.

Yet. Reconstructing a woman's uterus can be done by growing the right cells and assembling the right uterine wall in vitro and then carefully stitching it together (though the irrigation and innervation would be a pain in the ass). Gonads would be harder but is theoretically achievable. In vitro cellular culture, including dedifferentiation and redifferentiation is currently advancing leaps and bounds, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an actual uterus within the next decade and actual gonads within the next two. The biggest problem, I think, more than irrigation, is going to be innervation. Getting all the structures innervated properly is going to be a huge pain. Unless we figure out how to grow nerve tissue too.


EDIT: Major /facepalm, reporting in. No, people, no. It's not chemistry for crying out loud. It's geography. From Europe. Transalpine means "beyond the Alps" and cisalpine means "this side of the Alps". Transylvania means "the other side of the forest." Chemistry got the name from their geographical use (cis = this side, trans = the other side) too. Cis is cis in chemistry because both substitutions are on the same side, while trans substitutions occur diagonally.

 

[Clive Howlitzer]

I could if they were female enough that my brain wasn't telling me they were male. I'd have to be attracted to them, obviously. But like, if if you are asking if I fell for someone and found out they used to be male. It wouldn't bother me.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

I am about 80% sure that I would be okay with dating a MtoF trans. I mean, as long as I find them attractive, both mentally and physically, the fuck do I care what they were born as? Be a bit weird at first if our relationship is physical, me not being much of a fan of penis and all, and post-op vag is a bit...off...but hey, what's a relationship without obstacles to overcome? If I care enough about them, I'll get over myself eventually. And if I really care about them, then I doubt it will be a problem in the first place.

Seconded. All matter is transitive, and so too flesh. Human genitals are all made of the same STUFF. Only difference is the way the STUFF is arranged.

Also, contrary to popular belief, chromosomes only tell your proteins how to build your body, and in the case of sex, that process is essentially done after puberty. They're just instructions, and don't magically make you male or female. Any sex-based effects they have on your body other than genitals can be suppressed by medication anyway.

Yes male genitals are modified from the same tissue as female genitals - female external genitals are the default mode - as evidenced by people with androgen insensitivity syndrome http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgen_insensitivity_syndrome.

What would be the clitoris instead becomes the penis. What would be the labia become the scrotum. Under the influence of testosterone etc

But if we're going to say "All matter is transitive, and so too flesh. Human genitals are all made of the same STUFF. Only difference is the way the STUFF is arranged." then surely that applies to people and animals and people and rocks.. it's another step removed, but that chain of logic is not exactly flawless.

You can't help your sexual preferences any more than you can help your gender (well, later you can modify it to some extent with surgery - external shape and genitalia up to a point, but not internals like ovaries vs testicles or the womb etc) so you shouldn't be criticised for them.. although obviously paedophiles need to keep it in their pants.. that's not cool.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

You mean you can have whatever social identity you want. Regardless, you can't biologically bear a child (at least for the male to female conversion) because you don't have the right wiring however. And if you're female to male conversion, you can't provide sperm. Even people who do have the right wiring may not have it functioning adequately however.

Yet. Reconstructing a woman's uterus can be done by growing the right cells and assembling the right uterine wall in vitro and then carefully stitching it together (though the irrigation and innervation would be a pain in the ass). Gonads would be harder but is theoretically achievable. In vitro cellular culture, including dedifferentiation and redifferentiation is currently advancing leaps and bounds, so I wouldn't be surprised to see an actual uterus within the next decade and actual gonads within the next two. The biggest problem, I think, more than irrigation, is going to be innervation. Getting all the structures innervated properly is going to be a huge pain. Unless we figure out how to grow nerve tissue too.


EDIT: Major /facepalm, reporting in. No, people, no. It's not chemistry for crying out loud. It's geography. From Europe. Transalpine means "beyond the Alps" and cisalpine means "this side of the Alps". Transylvania means "the other side of the forest." Chemistry got the name from their geographical use (cis = this side, trans = the other side) too. Cis is cis in chemistry because both substitutions are on the same side, while trans substitutions occur diagonally.

Maybe you're right re the source of cis and trans usage, I don't know, nor do I think it really matters.

I have no problem with the idea that theoretically one day you could make a 'full conversion' from one gender to another .. (presumably actually changing the chromosomal makeup of all of your cells is not possible, but changing the grosser structures of the body might be), although I really doubt that it'd ever be cheap and easy..

It's a nice fantasy, at this stage at least, and one that I wish would be possible for those who suffer from gender identity issues. It's a terrible thing to be uncomfortable in your own skin and have people look at you like you're a freak and treat you poorly.

I suppose if such a seamless transition were possible - and if it's possible then surely many other things would be possible e.g. you could enhance your beauty or grow babies in artificial wombs (assuming there weren't other problems with that), I might strongly reconsider my position re not being sexually interested in people who'd undergone male to female conversions because it'd be truly convincing without doing a DNA test and there wouldn't be a penalty to pay in terms of reproduction if you were interested in that.

 

[Darken12]

Maybe you're right re the source of cis and trans usage, I don't know, nor do I think it really matters.

I have no problem with the idea that theoretically one day you could make a 'full conversion' from one gender to another .. (presumably actually changing the chromosomal makeup of all of your cells is not possible, but changing the grosser structures of the body might be), although I really doubt that it'd ever be cheap and easy..

It's a nice fantasy, at this stage at least, and one that I wish would be possible for those who suffer from gender identity issues. It's a terrible thing to be uncomfortable in your own skin and have people look at you like you're a freak.

I suppose if such a seamless transition were possible - and if it's possible then surely many other things would be possible e.g. you could enhance your beauty or grow babies in artificial wombs (assuming there weren't other problems with that), I might strongly reconsider my position re not being sexually interested in people who'd undergone male to female conversions because it'd be truly convincing without doing a DNA test and there wouldn't be a penalty to pay in terms of reproduction if you were interested in that.

First of all, it's not a fantasy any more than "treatment for burn victims" is a fantasy. It's something which we already possess the technology for, and all we need to do is the experimenting.

Secondly, what in Thor's name do you people have with chromosomes? What do you even care? What is the source of your obsession? Chromosomes are minuscule books that codify recipes for proteins. Most of those proteins (the sexual hormones) are going to be administered via hormone replacement treatment, rendering practically all functions of sexual chromosomes (outside of reproduction) completely meaningless. Unless, as it was mentioned before, you jerk off to kariotypes of women, chromosomes are completely irrelevant to you.

Thirdly yeah, that technology is already being applied to people to increase their beauty through dermal transplants after burns or severe scarring. Though we still can't grow whole organs in vitro, we're not that many years away. As for artificial wombs, yeah, I suppose that could be possible, but it would be far too much responsibility for any clinic, lab or hospital. I doubt they'd like to have Damocles's sword over their heads for nine months, with parents ready to get sued for any defect the child might have or any error during incubation.

 

[EclipseoftheDarkSun]

The effect of male-determining genes on the Y chromosome is the only reason we care. That should be obvious. When I say it's currently a fantasy, I'm saying it's a possibility, but not a certainty, not that it's impossible or that it shouldn't be researched, though I'm not sure how easy it'll be to get funding for it.

Out of interest, a male to female conversion would have female-levels of testosterone having lost the testes? How about the other 'male' hormones?

 

[Cameron Everett]

People are still people, each of us deserving, love, security, compassion and a need to share life with someone special. What happens between two consenting adults is all perfectly fine as long as there is nothing harmful or illegal to either themselves or each other. So yes, I'd date a Transgender (that's a much better/appreciated term to use) woman, I have Transgender friends, so there you have it. It doesn't matter what you think or the bigot down the road thinks or what my parents or my friends think, it's what I and my partner think, that's what's important, nothing else.

 

[Asuka Soryu]

As long as they sound the gender and I find them attractive and find they have a lot of things in common with me and I can like them personally, then there's no reason for me not to.

Can I go off topic for just a moment to say: I despise these new adds on the Escapist. I can take adds, I get their porpoise and all, but these adds are driving me insane. They load on every page and engulf the bottom of the page and it's annoying me to no end.

 

[Zeriah]

Not really sure honestly. I'm sure I could find some attractive but the thought that their bodies were once a man does make me feel uncomfortable. I haven't really thought about it much at all, and have never known any personally. If I did know some I'd probably have a better idea if it was a deal breaker, or something I was just ignorant about.

 

[chinangel]

I guess for me, it'd depend on the craftmanship of the surgeon who turned him into a her.

If I could snag a tranny that was as finely sculpted as Poison, then I probably wouldn't care. I'll go for it.

But, I don't think we've come that far yet.
Most trannies are so obviously trannies that it would just put me off.

please don't use that word..it's horrible slang and hurtful. thanks

from one t-girl to another, there are worse words for us. Shemale for example. Ladyboy. I pick my battles. Tranny isn't that bad in comparison, so I let others use that to describe me if they must.

To me it's all the same "Shemale", "Ladyboy", "Tranny"- they are ALL disgusting.

Fair enough ^^

Tranny isn't offensive to me, the other two are. But then again I'm a little harder to offend, and my lover calls me his cute tranny so I don't mind <3

 

[Angie7F]

Yes. Totally.
There are a whole lot of men that are much less of a man than any girl.
The physical aspect is not that big of a deal to me.

 

[Jenvas1306]

Ugh you again. Medically speaking they ARE male. Their cells have X and Y chromosomes and internally they have no female reproductive system. The changes made for someone to switch gender are essentially cosmetic alone. Hormone therapy only lasts as long as supplementation continues if that stops then the masculine characteristics associated with normal testosterone levels will reassert themselves

ugh that argument again. you can say 'genetically they are still male', but medically, thats a different story.
after the surgery, if a transsexual person has to stop taking those hormone supplements, their bodies go through the same as cisgender people when their hormone levels sink, aka menopause. That doesnt cause the body to revert to its state before the beginning of a HRT, so breasts for example just stay.
gender is more than just anatomy and chromosomes, and if you have to deal with something that differs from the simple definition of 'XY = male, XX = female', you should be openminded enough to atleast consider it to be not sufficient.
Our genderidentity and our sexuality are not bound to our last chromosome pair, other factors are responsible, which we just come to start understanding. The example I mentioned before, people with XXY or someone with androgen insensitivity (XY, but the body is resistant against the influence of testosterone and so doesnt change from the initial state of female configuration, so are their brains unaffected and their gender identity is female) show that its not that simple.
Medically speaking, I am not male. My bloodcellcount, bonedensity, muscle density and several other aspects of my body fall into female categories, while others like lungvolume, bone structures and sadly my chromosomes go into male categories. Most important of everything is still the person I am, thats why medically I'm treated like a woman who differs from the norm, instead of a man who differs and thats why I am legally female.
What deterimes our gender is neither cosmetic, nor is it genetic, its most likely neurologic. Changing ones body to have their sex fit their gender is not purely cosmetic, it is also a functional change. Some day that change will hopefully include the ability to reproduce aswell.

the original question was if you would date a transsexual, not what you think of them, so just consider that you meet a girl/boy and you find them physically attractive, you get to know them and you fall in love. upon learning that the gender and sex you see them as is not how their chromosomes are, what would you do? discarding them as chromosomes are more important than the person? that doesnt seem reasonable to me (more like cruel to both and quite stupid)

not really for discussion, just for your consideration.

 

[Darken12]

The effect of male-determining genes on the Y chromosome is the only reason we care. That should be obvious. When I say it's currently a fantasy, I'm saying it's a possibility, but not a certainty, not that it's impossible or that it shouldn't be researched, though I'm not sure how easy it'll be to get funding for it.

Out of interest, a male to female conversion would have female-levels of testosterone having lost the testes? How about the other 'male' hormones?

Genes are absolutely meaningless. Medicine can overwrite, alleviate or palliate the effects the Y chromosome has on a male, particularly if hormone therapy is done during childhood and teenage years and the irreversible effect of male hormones can be prevented. And the more science advances, the more we'll be able to overwrite and tamper with.

Genes. Are. Our. Subordinates.

Yes, without testicles, your androgen (testosterone, androstenedione, etc) levels will be exactly like a woman's. This is what happens to castrated men, too. All the male hormones are produced by the testicles (and a really tiny amount by the adrenal glands). The only sexual hormones that aren't are FSH and LH, which are exactly the same for both men and women (they are more or less useless without testicles or ovaries to exert their influence on, though).

So basically, men without testicles get a baseline level of androgens from their adrenal glands, just like women, and women can actually end up with more androstenedione than men (because they convert it to oestrogen via the aromatase enzyme [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aromatase] in several tissues (which men also have, btw, which is why steroid-taking men need to take aromatase in order to avoid having a sudden increase in oestrogens)).

Ugh you again. Medically speaking they ARE male. Their cells have X and Y chromosomes and internally they have no female reproductive system. The changes made for someone to switch gender are essentially cosmetic alone. Hormone therapy only lasts as long as supplementation continues if that stops then the masculine characteristics associated with normal testosterone levels will reassert themselves

There are women who have Polycystic Ovarian Syndrome [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polycystic_ovarian_syndrome]. It's one of the most common endocrine disorders, and it effectively masculinises women, rendering them infertile and giving them androgenic characteristics. These women must also take hormones in order to retain their feminine characteristics (and have children at all). There is no shame, reproach or anything bad whatsoever in having to take hormones (or any other form of medication) in order to maintain your physical appearance. Bodies aren't perfect, they are random assortments of protein, fat, carbs and DNA that take specific forms and often get something wrong. Correcting what you perceive to be wrong with your body, pharmaceutically, surgically or otherwise, is nothing to criticise.

 

[JediMB]

I am about 80% sure that I would be okay with dating a MtoF trans. I mean, as long as I find them attractive, both mentally and physically, the fuck do I care what they were born as?

Pretty much this. I'd just remove the "about 80%" part.

Attraction is attraction and a wonderful person is a wonderful person.